The Missing Period (.)

[Barbara]

I know you weren't answering a question with a question. I was.

Sorry Tipper, my mistake

 

[BlueCrab]

Very good, K777angel! Seeing your points laid out like that really brings it home just how suspicious the R/S relationship was.

Maybe I've missed something, but why was Doug Stine called to testify before the grand jury? In his testimony he revealed (and so did Burke) that Burke owned Hi Tec shoes, but why was Doug called to testify in the first place?

IMO

Doug was called to testify because he knows things.

Neither Doug Stine nor Burke Ramsey have been cleared in the death of JonBenet. In writing, the boys possible involvements are cloaked in cryptograph terms, or avoided altogether. But in the unofficial verbal network of "sources close to the investigation" it's a different story. For instance, I happen to know that Lou Smit has said that "The Stine boy should be looked at". Just exactly what that could mean is anyone's guess, but it's obvious the cops, even Lou Smit, haven't overlooked the possibilities of the boys' involvement.

JMO

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Since you "happen to know what Smit said", please tell us how you know. Did Smit say that to you, directly?

Smit has spoken publically several times about the evidence in the case and who it points to: an intruder whose DNA matches that under JonBenét's nails and in her panties. That person isn't a Ramsey.

Smit has never, to my knowledge, even suggested that he thought the intruder/killer/note writer was a child.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Here's an enlargement of the isolated "SBTC". I think you will agree that a period might have been added beside the C so closely that the period joined to the C.

http://www.geocities.com/lovelypigeon/sbtc_C_period.html

 

[BlueCrab]

Since you "happen to know what Smit said", please tell us how you know. Did Smit say that to you, directly?

Smit has spoken publically several times about the evidence in the case and who it points to: an intruder whose DNA matches that under JonBenét's nails and in her panties. That person isn't a Ramsey.

Smit has never, to my knowledge, even suggested that he thought the intruder/killer/note writer was a child.

No, I've never talked to Lou Smit. I get a tidbit about thirdhand once in awhile, and please don't expect a source. Here's exactly what was verbally passed to me:

"Lou Smit believes Doug Stine should be looked at. The intruder could be a kid."

JMO

 

[BlueCrab]

Here's an enlargement of the isolated "SBTC". I think you will agree that a period might have been added beside the C so closely that the period joined to the C.

http://www.geocities.com/lovelypigeon/sbtc_C_period.html

No, I don't think so. The top of the C has a slightly larger bulb on the end of it than the bottom of the C. There was never a period at the end of the C.

JMO

 

[BrotherMoon]

BlueCrab, you're full of smit. :bang:

 

[Shylock]

BlueCrab,
Do you have the Stine's old address in Boulder so we can run it through MapQuest to see the distance from the hellhole?

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,
Do you have the Stine's old address in Boulder so we can run it through MapQuest to see the distance from the hellhole?

The Stine's lived in Boulder at 816 10th Street. It was about a five-block walk between the Ramsey's house and the Stine's house.

JMO

 

[BlueCrab]

I'd like to recap "The Missing Period (.)" thread because it might lead to something if investigated. (Or, of course, it could just be a bunch of unusual coincidences.) But for example:

o The APAC website signs off "K.J.L.B Groups"; and the Ramsey ransom note signs off "S.B.T.C";

o Both sign-offs used four capital letters;

o Both sign-offs used periods after each capital letter except the last one (the missing period);

o Both sign-offs were written around the same 1996 - 1997 time period;

o APAC can be loosely referred to as "a small foreign faction", (as written in the RN);

o APAC can be considered "a group of individuals", (as written in the RN);

o There was a direct link between APAC and the Ramsey household by way of Doug Stine and APAC member Nathan Inouye who lived at the Stine's house and was somewhat close to the Ramseys;

o APAC at CU was within walking distance of the Ramsey house, as was the Stines house within walking distance of the Ramsey house;

o APAC abruptly and suspiciously disbanded shortly after the murder of JonBenet.

IMO the 29 students at CU who were APAC members in 1996 should each be checked out.

JMO

 

[cookie]

Sorry, but I just can't help but think that if it were anyone associated with that group of college students, the last thing they would put in a ransom note would be that they were a small foreign faction. They discussed their like and dislike of his business, and felt the need to tell him to be rested. That doesn't sound like anyone in a small foreign faction to me. Then, there is the stupid amount of money demanded for the ransom. I think college kids would have way way more out there with the money amount.

 

[BlueCrab]

Sorry, but I just can't help but think that if it were anyone associated with that group of college students, the last thing they would put in a ransom note would be that they were a small foreign faction. They discussed their like and dislike of his business, and felt the need to tell him to be rested. That doesn't sound like anyone in a small foreign faction to me. Then, there is the stupid amount of money demanded for the ransom. I think college kids would have way way more out there with the money amount.

"small foreign faction" and "respect your business" and "be rested" and "stupid amount of money", etc. Okay Cookie, then who DOES the note sound like? Did I hear you say KIDS under your breath?

JMO

 

[Ivy]

Kids? How about the person who said in a NE interview when asked what came to mind when she contemplated the events surrounding JonBenet's death:

"It kind of makes my heart go pitty-pat. I mean right now, I'm feeling like, gosh, this happened to my child."

No matter how I look at it, I feel sure Patsy wrote the note.

IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

Kids? How about the person who said in a NE interview when asked what came to mind when she contemplated the events surrounding JonBenet's death:

"It kind of makes my heart go pitty-pat. I mean right now, I'm feeling like, gosh, this happened to my child."

IMO

Ivy, but don't you think what Patsy is saying there sounds more like space cadet stuff, not like kid stuff? I do.

JMO

 

[Ivy]

BC, Patsy a space cadet? LOL, I see your point, but to tell you the truth, I think Patsy watched too many Shirley Temple movies. I'm surprised she didn't burst out singing... "On the goo-oo-ood ship Lollipop..."

After seeing Patsy's exemplars, I am convinced that she penned the note. Besides herself, I don't think she would write it to cover for anyone other than Burke--and possibly the Stine boy. If Nathan was involved, Patsy would throw him to the wolves in nothing flat. He'd take the rap even if Burke and Doug were involved as well.

IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

After seeing Patsy's exemplars, I am convinced that she penned the note. Besides herself, I don't think she would write it to cover for anyone other than Burke--and possibly the Stine boy. If Nathan was involved, Patsy would throw him to the wolves in nothing flat. He'd take the rap even if Burke and Doug were involved as well.

IMO

Two points:

1. In Colorado it's against the law to reveal the name(s) of juveniles involved in a major crime. If any adult committed this crime with Burke as an accomplice and it went to trial, the juvenile names would have to be illegally revealed. It won't happen. Therefore, IMO there will never be a trial, and that's why there are so many settlements involving Burke. They likely can't go to trial even if Nathan or anyone else over 18 is involved. It would have to be settled behind closed doors among LE, the D.A., and the court.

2. Remember the carefully-worded "for sure" polygraph questions that both adult Ramseys passed without showing deception? It strongly suggested that the Ramseys knew more than one person was involved in the death of JonBenet, but they didn't know "for sure" which one actually did it, and may not have even known the name of the other person, allowing them to pass. And Burke isn't talking, even to his parents, about who the intruder was. That's the only way the Ramseys could have successfully passed the "for sure" polygraph test.

JMO

 

[Shylock]

Remember the carefully-worded "for sure" polygraph questions that both adult Ramseys passed without showing deception?That's the only way the Ramseys could have successfully passed the "for sure" polygraph test.

BlueCrab,
The Ramseys passed the second lie detector test because they were on drugs. They contacted one polygrapher (I forget his name) who said he required a urine drug test and they promptly said "thanks, but no thanks".
It had nothing to do with the wording of the questions. Patsy failed to pass the first test probably because she didn't take enough Prozac (or some other downer) to effect her physical response to the questions.

The interesting thing is that one of the questions was "Did you do anything today to effect the outcome of this test?". That's a real Catch-22 question seeing that if they had taken enough drugs to alter the test results it would have also altered the answer to that question.

 

[BlueCrab]

The interesting thing is that one of the questions was "Did you do anything today to effect the outcome of this test?". That's a real Catch-22 question seeing that if they had taken enough drugs to alter the test results it would have also altered the answer to that question.

Shylock,

The following are the questions asked by examiner Ed Gelb in May of 2000. John and Patsy were asked series 1 and 2 questions, and only Patsy was asked series 3 questions. The Ramseys responded "NO" to all questions without showing deception.

Series 1:

1. Did you inflict any of the injuries that caused the death of JonBenet?

2. Regarding JonBenet, did you inflict any of the injuries that caused her death?

3. Were those injuries that resulted in JonBenet's death inflicted by you?

Series 2:

1. Do you know for sure who killed JonBenet?

2. Regarding JonBenet, do you know for sure who killed her?

3. Are you concealing the identity of the person who killed JonBenet?

Series 3 (Patsy Ramsey only):

1. Did you write the ransom note that was found in your house?

2. Regarding that ransom note, did you write it?

3. Is that your handwriting on the ransom note found in your house?

JMO

 

[Ivy]

To read the real story behind the Ramseys' polygraph adventure, click here.

Here's an excerpt pertaining to Gelb, the polygrapher the Rs hired. It looks as if they knew Gelb would be cooperative and pass them:

Gelb's involvement in the Ramsey case has brought out some very interesting information about the man. Internet sleuths, fixated on the Ramsey case, started checking into Gelb's background and he became closely scrutinized in crime sleuthing forums. Supposedly Gelb's resume states that he received his doctorate degree from LaSalle University in Louisiana. That would be a real problem, because LaSalle was found to be nothing but a mail-order diploma mill. LaSalle's office was investigated and raided by the FBI, and Thomas Kirk, LaSalle's owner and founder, was found guilty of fraud and sentenced to five years in federal prison. Kirk earned millions of dollars from people looking to obtain fraudulent college degrees at a discount rate with little or no actual course work required.

Calls to Gelb's office by people trying to verify his education were not returned, and one internet sleuth even went as far as to check the master registry of Ph.D. dissertations and could find no information on a doctorate thesis authored by Edward Gelb.

Should "Doctor" Gelb really be addressed as "Dr. Bogus"? Is the man who claims to be the master at detecting the deception of others really a master of public and profession deception himself? Perhaps when Ed Gelb hears about this web page he will contact us and provide proof of his educational background so we can publish the truth here.

Gelb's resume also includes some very bizarre history that he would probably like buried in the past. Gelb has been in the news before when he tested and passed people claiming they were abducted by space aliens and held captive aboard flying saucers.

On November 5, 1975 a group of six loggers, including a man named Travis Walton, were in the mountains of northeastern Arizona. Walton turned up missing and claimed he was abducted by space aliens and kept for five days aboard their spaceship before being returned to Earth. Walton sold his story to The National Enquirer tabloid who had a polygraph expert named John J. McCarthy test Walton. The test showed Walton was deceptive in his UFO story. The very existence of the failed Travis Walton polygraph session was kept secret by the National Enquirer who went ahead and printed the story, while McCarthy was ordered never to speak about the tests.

Enter Ed Gelb, who was brought in it to test the 5 men who claimed they witnessed Travis Walton being beamed up into the spaceship. Gelb concluded that each of the tests demonstrated that each witness was being conclusively "truthful." Gelb, then declared that the statistical odds of five people "beating the machine" was about one in a million. Besides the original sale of his story to the National Enquirer, Travis Walker went on to write a book about his experience which he titled, "Fire in the Sky."

 

[DocWatson]

No, I've never talked to Lou Smit. I get a tidbit about thirdhand once in awhile, and please don't expect a source. Here's exactly what was verbally passed to me:

"Lou Smit believes Doug Stine should be looked at. The intruder could be a kid."

JMO

Blue Crab: you apparently view the above quote as "evidence" yet you reject out of hand Nathan Inouye's claim to have been in California over Xmas 1996. Nathan's claim passes many "sniff tests" (i.e., most college students ARE at home with their families over Christmas breaks, Nathan's family DID live in California, there are NO written accounts of Stine/Ramsey activities during the Xmas breaks that involved Nathan: in short, there is a COMPLETE ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE that Nathan was in Boulder). In that context, I am prepared to accept Nathan's claim as true until and unless proven otherwise. That is, the burden of proof that this is NOT true lies with those such as yourself who claim Nathan may have been involved.

In contrast, your theory about Nathan/APAC's involvement FAILS many "sniff tests" as LovelyPigeon and others on this thread have pointed out. College campuses are REPLETE with student organizations whose activities involve speakers/subjects of the sort APAC sponsored. Your bizarre theory has yet to even advance a single plausible explanation for how JBR's death could possibly advance any sinister political objectives of APAC. In fact, the only "connection" of APAC to JBR is via Nathan Inouye and over many years, you've done a lot of what I will characterize as "truth-twisting" to keep Nathan plausibly connected to JBR's murder (one example beyond your steadfast refusal to offer any independent corroboration from ANY source that Nathan was even in Boulder on the night you have previously alleged he was leading Burke and Doug astray with AEA "games" involving JBR!). In that context, I see no reason to accept your claim above regarding Lou Smit. Prove you're not lying.