The Murder of Samantha Koenig

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bessie

bessie

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Really worth watching. The FBI woman said at the end that it is not the cold murder cases to worry about (he was a master at getting rid of clues and bodies), but the MISSING persons cases. As in, someone who went for a walk and just never came back. Just thought that was interesting.
 
"The FBI estimates that Keyes has a total of 11 victims. Imo, the total unknown victims will be much higher. If this number were acurate, why would he go dark 30 times in just the last 8 years? IK was active for virtually two decades..
The numb3rs don't equate...

Going dark

Before Koenig, Keyes' strategy involved random slayings by flying to somewhere in the Lower 48 and traveling hundreds of miles by car. He'd stashed cash from bank robberies and weapons in spots around the country for use in future crimes. The FBI said he took more than 30 multi-day trips throughout the nation the past eight years. During the trips, he'd go dark, turning off his cell phone and spending only cash to avoid being tracked.
 
In one of the latest shows about this case, which has been turned into a circus imo, shows the video of them walking several hundred feet across a well lit parking lot with a few people milling about after having left her workplace.

Watching this reminded me of what I told my daughter years ago about abductions in public places.

I'd watched an old show and had heard of the statistics of abductions that ended in murder. (this is also mentioned in the recent show) The guy suggested one had a better chance coming out alive if you put up a fight and try to run away that this would at least allow for the possibility that the perp would abort and flee. I told her this and of course its easy for me to say it all not having a gun pointed at me.

It's hard to say what he might have done if she would have put up a fight in that parking lot, I think there's a chance he would have bolted. I don't know if my advice to my daughter was right or not (god forbid) I just feel like if you're gonna make your stand to fight for your life its better to do it in public there and then rather than take the chance of what the abductor has in store.

I hope this doesn't come off sounding like I'm second guessing Samantha, she is the innocent victim in every sense of the word. But if there's a learning example here then it needs to be noted and this would be a positive.


Long live the spirit of Samantha Koenig.
 
LR1 said:
In one of the latest shows about this case, which has been turned into a circus imo, shows the video of them walking several hundred feet across a well lit parking lot with a few people milling about after having left her workplace.

Watching this reminded me of what I told my daughter years ago about abductions in public places.

I'd watched an old show and had heard of the statistics of abductions that ended in murder. (this is also mentioned in the recent show) The guy suggested one had a better chance coming out alive if you put up a fight and try to run away that this would at least allow for the possibility that the perp would abort and flee. I told her this and of course its easy for me to say it all not having a gun pointed at me.

It's hard to say what he might have done if she would have put up a fight in that parking lot, I think there's a chance he would have bolted. I don't know if my advice to my daughter was right or not (god forbid) I just feel like if you're gonna make your stand to fight for your life its better to do it in public there and then rather than take the chance of what the abductor has in store.

I hope this doesn't come off sounding like I'm second guessing Samantha, she is the innocent victim in every sense of the word. But if there's a learning example here then it needs to be noted and this would be a positive.


Long live the spirit of Samantha Koenig.
Click to expand...

Yep, better to say/think "he/she is going to kill me anyway, if they want to do it, they are gonna have to do it right here. I'm not going anywhere" and start screaming and refusing to go.
 
LR1 said:
In one of the latest shows about this case, which has been turned into a circus imo, shows the video of them walking several hundred feet across a well lit parking lot with a few people milling about after having left her workplace.

Watching this reminded me of what I told my daughter years ago about abductions in public places.

I'd watched an old show and had heard of the statistics of abductions that ended in murder. (this is also mentioned in the recent show) The guy suggested one had a better chance coming out alive if you put up a fight and try to run away that this would at least allow for the possibility that the perp would abort and flee. I told her this and of course its easy for me to say it all not having a gun pointed at me.

It's hard to say what he might have done if she would have put up a fight in that parking lot, I think there's a chance he would have bolted. I don't know if my advice to my daughter was right or not (god forbid) I just feel like if you're gonna make your stand to fight for your life its better to do it in public there and then rather than take the chance of what the abductor has in store.

I hope this doesn't come off sounding like I'm second guessing Samantha, she is the innocent victim in every sense of the word. But if there's a learning example here then it needs to be noted and this would be a positive.


Long live the spirit of Samantha Koenig.
Click to expand...

He crawled through the window and had a gun on her, he bound her hands with zip ties while still in the coffee shop, and once out of the shop, she did break away from him and ran towards the busy highway, but he caught up with her again and then put the gun pointed towards her chest
Keyes was a Marathon Runner, he rode (I guess you call it a mountain bike) and very athletic....he was said to be medium build, but had very muscular arms and etc.....I think Samantha did all she could do, but with your hands bound tightly there is not much else to do....Also in the Curriers case in Vermont, Mrs. Currier also broke loose and tried to make it to the road, but Keyes saw her, ran after her and caught up with her also...I only know for myself if someone bound my hands with zip ties and had a gun pulled on me I would personally have too much fear to put up a fight
 
Thinking out loud, is there a visual of his mileage out there? If we can do a map with points and dates with 360 radius travel potential based on the mileage, maybe something might stick out?
 
margarita25 said:
Thinking out loud, is there a visual of his mileage out there? If we can do a map with points and dates with 360 radius travel potential based on the mileage, maybe something might stick out?
Click to expand...

I know that in the maps and photos thread, someone posted a link that shows a map (a couple of photos of it, and a good article as well), in the office of one of the investigators, upon which something like that has been done. Not all the dates are included, I think, but many are and it was very interesting to ponder...

ETA: Here's the link to that post: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9838066&postcount=8"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Israel Keyes Maps and Photos **NO DISCUSSION**[/ame]
 
Just a thought: IK expressed worry about his daughter reading things about him in the future, and IIRC he used this logic as one sort of justification not to confess the full extent of his crimes. By committing to this lack of confession, and then committing suicide, I feel he may have set the stage for the opposite of his intended effect...Now there is possibly more speculation, more investigation and therefore more content than there originally might have been, and therefore more publicity, as seen by all these different threads trying to figure out what all he could be linked to. jmo
 
LR1 said:
In one of the latest shows about this case, which has been turned into a circus imo, shows the video of them walking several hundred feet across a well lit parking lot with a few people milling about after having left her workplace.

Watching this reminded me of what I told my daughter years ago about abductions in public places.

I'd watched an old show and had heard of the statistics of abductions that ended in murder. (this is also mentioned in the recent show) The guy suggested one had a better chance coming out alive if you put up a fight and try to run away that this would at least allow for the possibility that the perp would abort and flee. I told her this and of course its easy for me to say it all not having a gun pointed at me.

It's hard to say what he might have done if she would have put up a fight in that parking lot, I think there's a chance he would have bolted. I don't know if my advice to my daughter was right or not (god forbid) I just feel like if you're gonna make your stand to fight for your life its better to do it in public there and then rather than take the chance of what the abductor has in store.

I hope this doesn't come off sounding like I'm second guessing Samantha, she is the innocent victim in every sense of the word. But if there's a learning example here then it needs to be noted and this would be a positive.


Long live the spirit of Samantha Koenig.
Click to expand...

I've shared the same info with my daughter, LR1. We just talked about it again tonight, as a matter of fact.

I didn't follow Samantha's case closely as it was happening. Just picked up a little here and there.

Even later, I had refrained from watching the security video of the abduction. Even just the still shots I had glimpsed from it really spooked me.

Finally about a week ago, I finally watched it. That was one of the scariest and saddest things I have seen in a while. There she is, just going about the business of wrapping up her night...and then he shows up.

I'm really glad she tried to get away from him that one time, but it just tugs at my heart to think of that, to think of what she must have been thinking/feeling throughout. Not meaning ANYthing against Samantha -- I totally understand why she did not try again -- but I just so much wish she had tried again and screamed and done whatever. It couldn't have gotten much worse, could it, if she had, then how it ended up anyhow. Poor girl. RIP, your terror vanquished.

I feel the same turmoil thinking about Mrs. Currier. Dang, she almost got away from him!! She must have had such a flare of hope, such a heart-pounding moment; I'm so sorry he was able to stop her. And I think I have read that, meanwhile, Mr. Currier was starting to break loose from his bonds in the basement.

Thinking of both of these near-escapes made me think -- in the tips, etc., that the FBI may have gotten in response to their appeal, I wonder if MAYBE there is one (or some) from someone who DID escape IK? Would be very interesting to know.
 
Backwoods said:
I know that in the maps and photos thread, someone posted a link that shows a map (a couple of photos of it, and a good article as well), in the office of one of the investigators, upon which something like that has been done. Not all the dates are included, I think, but many are and it was very interesting to ponder...

ETA: Here's the link to that post: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Israel Keyes Maps and Photos **NO DISCUSSION**
Click to expand...

:rockon:

Thank you Backwoods.
 
I am still a baby investigator here so bear with me.
I just do not understand how he could have made Samantha look alive for a random photo days later. He went on a cruise, aren't they typically at least 3 days sometimes up to a few weeks?

I know this is graphic but it makes no sense that he would be able to use a viable picture. I have not been able to find the picture and I am not sure I would even want to see it but this has me stumped but no one else seems phased I am clearly missing something.
 
Justme84 said:
I am still a baby investigator here so bear with me.
I just do not understand how he could have made Samantha look alive for a random photo days later. He went on a cruise, aren't they typically at least 3 days sometimes up to a few weeks?

I know this is graphic but it makes no sense that he would be able to use a viable picture. I have not been able to find the picture and I am not sure I would even want to see it but this has me stumped but no one else seems phased I am clearly missing something.
Click to expand...

Hi, Justme84.

I think the cruise was about a week long.

I'm thinking, first of all, that the cold preserved Sam's body pretty well; that's all I can figure.

As for what exactly he did for the picture, I'm pretty sure the details have not been released (nor the picture). Guess he was able to pose her well enough to pull it off, may have opened her eyes, etc.

You know, back in Victorian times, it was not uncommon for families to have photographs taken of dead loved ones as mementos. Often, the deceased person was posed and propped, eyes opened (or sometimes eyes "touched up" into the final photograph), many times family members posed with the deceased person. You can Google memento mori photos and see some pretty amazing examples. Many modern-day folks find the practice pretty creepy, but seems it was widespread and accepted at the time.
 
Justme84 said:
I am still a baby investigator here so bear with me.
I just do not understand how he could have made Samantha look alive for a random photo days later. He went on a cruise, aren't they typically at least 3 days sometimes up to a few weeks?

I know this is graphic but it makes no sense that he would be able to use a viable picture. I have not been able to find the picture and I am not sure I would even want to see it but this has me stumped but no one else seems phased I am clearly missing something.
Click to expand...


Welcome Justme84.....I do not believe that photo has been and I am sure it won't be released to the public, when they was questioning him on Samantha he stated something close to this "Well, it was kinda like maybe she was having a really hard day" and then he laughs or chuckles (Yuk Yuk) as he does in other released tapes of him being questioned
However he done it, it was good enough to make her Father and her Boyfriend think she was still alive and it gave them I'm sure a faint hope that they might get her back home but we all here know she was already gone
My heart just broke into when I read how her father was called in when they had video and etc. of this monster coming into the window and then taking Samantha, They left it up to the father whether he wanted details put out in public, and he chose Yes.....I highly admire the father of Samantha, I guess you know but he is one that chose to put up the FB page asking for tips, anyone that had come into contact with him and etc....That was before they know Samantha was actually deceased, James stated he just got a bad feeling this creep had kidnapped or killed before and now they have went on further to start an organization to help any family with missing people in Alaska.....Samantha did not die in vain, I know her Dad's heart will never heal but he chose to get on with things and helping others and I feel that Samantha's name will live on for years and years and years
 
Thank you for the help. I hadn't thought of how cold it was.
I had heard of the photographs you are talking
about but always assumed that they were as immediate
as possible or if maybe they were embalmed first.

Regardless, that is one of the most horrific things about the situation.
I wish he would not have been able to go out in his own terms.
His poor daughter will suffer anyway but now so many
Others will never know.
 
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