The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[andreww]

It appears to me that we have a case in which one hand does not know what the other is doing. If both adults had put their heads together to decide how to redress the body I see no reason they'd have settled on the size 12s. Since there doesn't need to be any consistency between what JB wore to the party and what she wore in death, there was really no need for the Wed. pair. Any day of the week would have sufficed.

I disagree on your point about there not having to be consistency between what she was found in and what she wore to the party. It was said that Patsy could have simply changed the panties before bed, but then she would have to produce the size 6 Wednesday panties wouldn't she? Or did they just disappear. And really, what parent in the history of the world has decided to change an already sleeping child's underwear when putting them to bed?

I still think the Ramsey's biggest fear was the discovery of the sexual assault. The panties contained evidence and needed to be destroyed. Fearing someone at the party had seen the Wednesday panties, the size 12s were the only option.


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[andreww]

If I understand you point, it's this - a pair of size 6s are going to turn up missing in any case, because they were forensically contaminated and had to be disposed of. The intruder will be blamed for their disappearance. If the size 6s worn to the party were changed, prior to the crime, then they must be somewhere in the house. IOWs if the story didn't say she was put to bed in the same pair of panties she wore to the party there would be two pairs of missing panties to account for. I see your point. (I hope I've understood your point correctly)

I think you're right. Basically.

This is basically what we end up with when we consider all of Patsy's testimony. The panties weren't changed, and there was nothing unusual (e.g. Jonbenet didn't wear size 12s to the party)

Thank you for correcting me.

Let's face it, an intruder wouldn't give a crap how she was found. If it truly was an intruder she would have been naked and covered in blood.


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[andreww]

Lets think logically about these size 12s. We know Patsy bought them on the mother/daughter trip to New York. We know they were intended as a Christmas Gift for Patsy's Niece. Given that Jonbenet was withe her when they were purchased, it seems that if she had wanted them that badly, Patsy would have bought her a set in her proper size. It seems highly unlikely that Patsy would for some reason decide not to give them as a gift as originally planned. Did she ever explain why? Did she ever say what she got her instead? Was she even asked?? I think that it is realistic to conclude that the size 12s were still earmarked for the niece and probably were wrapped in one of the gift boxes still in the wine cellar that night.

So then we need to ask ourselves who knew they were there? Ramsey statements seem to indicate that Burke had been down there on Christmas day opening presents, so he may have been aware of them. Patsy obviously knew because she wrapped them. I find the story of Burke being the one that opened the boxes to be a little suspect. Lets face it, its Christmas day, he's probably got a stack of new toys (including a new Nintendo) and from all accounts he was playing with friends all day. I honestly don't see him being motivated enough to sneak down there on that day to open more gifts. In my opinion Burke took the wrap (see what I did there ) for this one. I believe Patsy was the one that tore in to those boxes, specifically looking for those size 12s.

So what could the reason be? There are a few possibilities. I think that due to the wiping of JB's groin it is quite evident that somebody was worried about some kind of identifiable forensic evidence that could be found in that area. So it makes sense that whatever panties she was wearing would need to be destroyed as well. Why use the size 12s?

- As discussed, possibly JB was wearing the size 6 Wednesday panties and the size 12s were used in case anybody at the party had noticed them.
- Patsy may have been working alone on this and did not want to go upstairs and risk waking John. She uses the size 12s that she knows are gift wrapped.
- Perhaps Patsy wanted to properly commemorate JBs Christmas death by having her wear Wednesday panties. (Although Patsy would later say JB would just wear whatever panties she grabbed, it seems very coincidental that she happened to be wearing Wednesday panties on Wednesday)

Finally, it is ludicrous to think that JB put those panties on for the simple reason that the rest of them should have been in her drawer. I think we can all agree that an intruder would have no clue that the size 12s were there and probably would have had no interest in redressing her anyway. Likewise, John probably had no clue the size 12s were even there. That leaves two people and I would bet my life that it was Patsy. Yes you could make a case that it was Burke but I think logic likely points to the adult being worried about forensic evidence over a nine year old boy.

 

[UKGuy]

Lets think logically about these size 12s. We know Patsy bought them on the mother/daughter trip to New York. We know they were intended as a Christmas Gift for Patsy's Niece. Given that Jonbenet was withe her when they were purchased, it seems that if she had wanted them that badly, Patsy would have bought her a set in her proper size. It seems highly unlikely that Patsy would for some reason decide not to give them as a gift as originally planned. Did she ever explain why? Did she ever say what she got her instead? Was she even asked?? I think that it is realistic to conclude that the size 12s were still earmarked for the niece and probably were wrapped in one of the gift boxes still in the wine cellar that night.

So then we need to ask ourselves who knew they were there? Ramsey statements seem to indicate that Burke had been down there on Christmas day opening presents, so he may have been aware of them. Patsy obviously knew because she wrapped them. I find the story of Burke being the one that opened the boxes to be a little suspect. Lets face it, its Christmas day, he's probably got a stack of new toys (including a new Nintendo) and from all accounts he was playing with friends all day. I honestly don't see him being motivated enough to sneak down there on that day to open more gifts. In my opinion Burke took the wrap (see what I did there ) for this one. I believe Patsy was the one that tore in to those boxes, specifically looking for those size 12s.

So what could the reason be? There are a few possibilities. I think that due to the wiping of JB's groin it is quite evident that somebody was worried about some kind of identifiable forensic evidence that could be found in that area. So it makes sense that whatever panties she was wearing would need to be destroyed as well. Why use the size 12s?

- As discussed, possibly JB was wearing the size 6 Wednesday panties and the size 12s were used in case anybody at the party had noticed them.
- Patsy may have been working alone on this and did not want to go upstairs and risk waking John. She uses the size 12s that she knows are gift wrapped.
- Perhaps Patsy wanted to properly commemorate JBs Christmas death by having her wear Wednesday panties. (Although Patsy would later say JB would just wear whatever panties she grabbed, it seems very coincidental that she happened to be wearing Wednesday panties on Wednesday)

Finally, it is ludicrous to think that JB put those panties on for the simple reason that the rest of them should have been in her drawer. I think we can all agree that an intruder would have no clue that the size 12s were there and probably would have had no interest in redressing her anyway. Likewise, John probably had no clue the size 12s were even there. That leaves two people and I would bet my life that it was Patsy. Yes you could make a case that it was Burke but I think logic likely points to the adult being worried about forensic evidence over a nine year old boy.

andreww,

Lets think logically about these size 12s.

Did she ever explain why?

Atlanta 200 Interview with Patsy , Excerpt

10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,

11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your

12 niece, and one for JonBenet?

13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or

14 two.

15 Q. Do you remember what size they

16 were?

17 A. Not exactly.


...

1 A. I am sure that I put the package

2 of underwear in her bathroom, and she opened

3 them and put them on.

4 Q. Do you know if -- you bought

5 these sometime in mid to early December, is

6 that correct, as far as -- no, I am sorry,

7 you bought them in November?

8 A. Right.

...


9 Q. Do you recall, was she wearing

10 these? And I don't mean this specific day

11 of the week, but was she wearing, were you

12 aware of the fact that she, you know, was in

13 this package of underpants and had been

14 wearing them since the trip to New York in

15 November?

16 A. I don't remember.

...

20 A. Well, obviously we, you know, the

21 package had been opened, we made the

22 decision, you know, oh, just go ahead and

23 use them because, you know, we weren't going

24 to give them to Jenny after all, I guess,

25 so.

...
15 THE WITNESS: They were just in

16 her panty drawer, so I don't, you know, I

17 don't pay attention. I mean, I just put all

18 of her clean panties in a drawer and she can

19 help herself to whatever is in there.

20 MS. HARMER: I guess I am not

21 clear on, you bought the panties to give to

22 Jenny.

23 THE WITNESS: Right.

24 MS. HARMER: And they ended up in

25 JonBenet's bathroom?

0087

1 A. Right.

2 Q. (By Ms. Harmer) Was there - I'm

3 sorry. Do you recall making a decision then

4 not to give them to Jenny or did JonBenet

5 express an interest in them; therefore, you

6 didn't give them to Jenny? How did that --

7 A. I can't say for sure. I mean, I

8 think I bought them with the intention of

9 sending them in a package of Christmas things

10 to Atlanta. Obviously I didn't get that

11 together, so I just put them in her, her

12 panty drawer. So they were free game.

...

5 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Let me ask it

6 this way. Did you say you bought more than

7 one set of Bloomi's?

8 A. I can't remember.

9 Q. You bought some for JonBenet?

10 A. I can't remember.

...
Here's a question

20 that was not asked, Mrs. Ramsey. Did you

21 dress JonBenet Christmas Day?

22 A. I can't remember.

23 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mrs. Ramsey, do

24 you know whether or not she changed her

25 underwear Christmas Day?

0103

1 A. I don't know.

...

Q. (By Mr. Levin) Do you know if

13 she changed her underwear?
A. I do not know.

Did she ever say what she got her instead?

Atlanta 200 Interview with Patsy , Excerpt

5 Q. Was it something that was selected

6 by JonBenet?

7 A. I believe so.

8 Q. Was it your intention, when you

9 purchased those, for those to be for her,

10 not for some third party as a gift?

11 A. I bought some things that were

12 gifts and some things for her. So I

13 don't --

14 Q. Just so I am clear, though, it is

15 your best recollection that the purchase of

16 the underpants, the Bloomi's days of the

17 week, was something that you bought for her,

18 whether it was just I am buying underwear

19 for my kids or these are special, here's a

20 present, that doesn't matter, but it was your

21 intention that she would wear those?

22 A. Well, I think that I bought a

23 package of the -- they came in a package of

24 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

25 I think I bought a package to give to my

0081

1 niece.

2 Q. Which niece was that?

3 A. Jenny Davis.

...

10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,

11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your

12 niece, and one for JonBenet?

13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or

14 two.

Patsy has already stated that she purchased a gift for JonBenet which JonBenet selected herself, then she is saying she purchased underwear for her niece Jenny, so if both purchases were underwear and size-12, then there should be two sets of size-12 underwear in the house, there were none.

I find the story of Burke being the one that opened the boxes to be a little suspect.

...

for this one. I believe Patsy was the one that tore in to those boxes, specifically looking for those size 12s.

Why would Patsy need to search for underwear that she herself had recently wrapped, various gifts had been partially opened, are you suggesting Patsy wrapped the gifts without name tagging them?

As discussed, possibly JB was wearing the size 6 Wednesday panties and the size 12s were used in case anybody at the party had noticed them.

So they can be asked were they size-6 or size-12 pants, undermining the day of the week importance?

That leaves two people and I would bet my life that it was Patsy.

So why did Patsy state she placed the size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, when there were none there?


.

 

[dogperson]

I belong quite firmly to the Ramseys Did It camp, but there are a couple things I don't understand.

First, it seems odd to me that, under the circumstances, PR would suddenly think, "Oh no, somebody at the party saw Jonbenet at Wednesday panties! Luckily I have another pair even though they're too big." I mean, that's awfully clear calculated thinking for a person in this type of dreadful situation.

Second, couldn't she have just let LE assume the perpetrator took the pair of size 6 Wednesday panties with him, supposing JBR was ever wearing a pair of size 6 Wednesday panties in the first place? No size 6 pair was ever found, was it? I still don't see the need to have a pair of Wednesday panties on hand even if somebody saw her wearing them at the party. PR could just say, "I guess the murderer took them with him."

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I belong quite firmly to the Ramseys Did It camp, but there are a couple things I don't understand.

First, it seems odd to me that, under the circumstances, PR would suddenly think, "Oh no, somebody at the party saw Jonbenet at Wednesday panties! Luckily I have another pair even though they're too big." I mean, that's awfully clear calculated thinking for a person in this type of dreadful situation.

Second, couldn't she have just let LE assume the perpetrator took the pair of size 6 Wednesday panties with him, supposing JBR was ever wearing a pair of size 6 Wednesday panties in the first place? No size 6 pair was ever found, was it? I still don't see the need to have a pair of Wednesday panties on hand even if somebody saw her wearing them at the party. PR could just say, "I guess the murderer took them with him."

Fair enough.. That's another theory ...Then why do you think huge size 12 's wednesday pair were replaced?
BTW we don't know where JBR and the panties were at that moment.

Not asking to you DP just brainstorming

 

[dogperson]

I don't know why the oversize panties were used but in their efforts to stage the scene or deflect suspicion, the addition of the oversize panties actually draws suspicion onto the family, in my opinion. If someone in the Ramsey family put them on her to replace the pair she was wearing when assaulted, or to replace a Wednesday pair she wore to the party, all they managed to do was make themselves look more guilty. An intruder would know nothing about a package of "day of the week" panties somewhere in the basement. An intruder wouldn't care whether his victim was dressed in a replacement pair of panties. And he sure wouldn't take the time to go prowling about looking for a new pair thinking, "Above all I must redress her in some Wednesday panties!" The underwear, the pineapple, the unbelievably long ransom note written on paper from the household....all these things do nothing but point the finger straight back at the family. The only thing I can think is that, in their panic or shock over what has happened and in their intense desire to cover up what really happened, a thing that seems rational to them during the night is to make sure she is wearing panties that say Wednesday because someone who helped her go to the potty that day knew she was wearing a pair that said Wednesday. In the light of day, this was a terrible decision and does nothing but throw suspicion on the Ramseys and not on any mysterious intruder.

 

[andreww]

andreww,





Atlanta 200 Interview with Patsy , Excerpt



Atlanta 200 Interview with Patsy , Excerpt

Patsy has already stated that she purchased a gift for JonBenet which JonBenet selected herself, then she is saying she purchased underwear for her niece Jenny, so if both purchases were underwear and size-12, then there should be two sets of size-12 underwear in the house, there were none.


Why would Patsy need to search for underwear that she herself had recently wrapped, various gifts had been partially opened, are you suggesting Patsy wrapped the gifts without name tagging them?


So they can be asked were they size-6 or size-12 pants, undermining the day of the week importance?


So why did Patsy state she placed the size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, when there were none there?


.

You can quote Patsy all you like but the truth is 90% of the time she is lying so what is the point. Her memory is crystal clear about buying the panties for Jenny yet she can't remember if she bought some for jonbenet. She obviously knows they are a gift for Jenny, yet she says she threw the package in Jonbenet's drawer. Why? And if she did, where are they? Why wouldn't they still be there? Did she just decide not to get Jenny a present?

Way too many holes.

As to some of your other questions:

JB had a habit of asking people to wipe her, so her panties would have been around her ankles. It would be hard for anyone to determine the size. The big issue that you don't want to grasp is that the Ramsey's said they put her to bed and never changed her panties. They either had to match what she wore to the party or not be there at all.


As to Patsy semi opening all the packages. Well it would be pretty damned obvious if she only opened the box with the panties in them wouldn't it? Considering she's the only one that knew where they were?

People can laugh off whatever reasoning they like but somebody put those size 12s on JB and there had to be a reason for it. It wasn't an intruder and I wasn't JB. Take your pick.


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[andreww]

I don't know why the oversize panties were used but in their efforts to stage the scene or deflect suspicion, the addition of the oversize panties actually draws suspicion onto the family, in my opinion. If someone in the Ramsey family put them on her to replace the pair she was wearing when assaulted, or to replace a Wednesday pair she wore to the party, all they managed to do was make themselves look more guilty. An intruder would know nothing about a package of "day of the week" panties somewhere in the basement. An intruder wouldn't care whether his victim was dressed in a replacement pair of panties. And he sure wouldn't take the time to go prowling about looking for a new pair thinking, "Above all I must redress her in some Wednesday panties!" The underwear, the pineapple, the unbelievably long ransom note written on paper from the household....all these things do nothing but point the finger straight back at the family. The only thing I can think is that, in their panic or shock over what has happened and in their intense desire to cover up what really happened, a thing that seems rational to them during the night is to make sure she is wearing panties that say Wednesday because someone who helped her go to the potty that day knew she was wearing a pair that said Wednesday. In the light of day, this was a terrible decision and does nothing but throw suspicion on the Ramseys and not on any mysterious intruder.

Exactly this. Somebody gets it!

To many people debate this like the Ramsey's are master criminals and did not make mistakes, but truth is they were anything but.


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[andreww]

I belong quite firmly to the Ramseys Did It camp, but there are a couple things I don't understand.

First, it seems odd to me that, under the circumstances, PR would suddenly think, "Oh no, somebody at the party saw Jonbenet at Wednesday panties! Luckily I have another pair even though they're too big." I mean, that's awfully clear calculated thinking for a person in this type of dreadful situation.

Second, couldn't she have just let LE assume the perpetrator took the pair of size 6 Wednesday panties with him, supposing JBR was ever wearing a pair of size 6 Wednesday panties in the first place? No size 6 pair was ever found, was it? I still don't see the need to have a pair of Wednesday panties on hand even if somebody saw her wearing them at the party. PR could just say, "I guess the murderer took them with him."

Yes she could have said the murderer took them and she probably should have. That's how an intruder would have left her, bloodied and naked. But Jonbenet is found in fresh clothes and underwear, wrapped in a cozy blanket. What does that tell you?


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[CorallaroC]

I appreciate very much the excellent discussion here about the oversized Bloomies. Very well thought out posts above, thank you Dogperson and Andreww.

When I take a moment to take a few steps back, away from the details of this case (trying for a bird's eye view, so to speak), what I see here is a murder case where JUST ONE of the peculiarities is the 6 yr old victim being found dressed in grossly oversized panties, of a relatively expensive and rare sort, plus evidence of previous sexual molestation and recent (perimortem) injury, and her body having been wiped down, etc.

Now, let's think logically here...
1) we also have information from the housekeeper that the mother of the family had the unusual habit of using a waterproof "marker" to put "dates" on underwear.

2) search warrant items of underwear of the victim indicate fecal staining.

3) several other facts cooborate the victim having had very noticeable/indisputable previous bed-wetting, urinary/vaginal irritations/infections, as well as fecal issues including the odd behavior of asking others to "wipe" her.

4) other reports of the older male sibling also having rather severe issues with toiletting.

5) in the crisis of the parents finding a "ransom note" the morning before the murder victim was found in the basement of the family home - part of the parent's statements to police details the father being "down on his knees in his underwear" reading the ransom note.

6) the father tells a story about the "broken basement window" which he says happened before the murder, the story includes how he stripped down to his UNDERWEAR when he was locked out and broke the window to get into his own house.

and later... 7) the father having some weird experience in Atlanta where he says an INTRUDER broke in, and he locked himself in his bathroom while only wearing his underwear.

~~~~~~~

With all the above strangeness about UNDERWEAR, are we really supposed to think that some "as yet unknown intruder" coincidentally had some bizarre or convoluted reason to dress his victim in oversized underwear, brand new Wednesday from Bloomingdale's no less, and able to find the underwear on his own in that house by happenstance?

Come on! how ridiculous to even entertain such nonsense! in my opinion.

Nope, IMO, the family had a very serious problem within, and it had to do with underwear and everything that goes along with underwear.

 

[dogperson]

CorallaroC, thanks for the info, I had not noticed the obsession with underwear and I had somehow missed the part about the marking of pairs of underwear. I wonder what the purpose was of the marking? Was Patsy trying to figure out some type of pattern? Like maybe trying to match up the days that JBR soiled her underwear with something/someone?

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

CorallaroC, thanks for the info, I had not noticed the obsession with underwear and I had somehow missed the part about the marking of pairs of underwear. I wonder what the purpose was of the marking? Was Patsy trying to figure out some type of pattern? Like maybe trying to match up the days that JBR soiled her underwear with something/someone?

Maybe she suspected molestation , and if JBR didn't talk abt that , she put a sort of sign to her panties to trace semen or sth so that she could find out who the molester could be due to the date on the panty.
Or she wanted to train JBR to change panties daily as she had some vaginal infection but not sure if JBR could read or not....just a thought

 

[CorallaroC]

CorallaroC, thanks for the info, I had not noticed the obsession with underwear and I had somehow missed the part about the marking of pairs of underwear. I wonder what the purpose was of the marking? Was Patsy trying to figure out some type of pattern? Like maybe trying to match up the days that JBR soiled her underwear with something/someone?

Hmm, (BBM) interesting question, Dogperson.

IIRC, the information about dated underwear came from the housekeeper LHP, and is referenced to Shiller writings about the case. Here is a quote from a reliable website:

"These weren't naughty children. They dressed themselves, and Patsy did JonBenet's hair. All her daughter's clothes were organized in drawers. Turtlenecks in one drawer, pants in another, nighties and panties in one, socks in another. Dates on all their underclothes (Emphasis added; this material is an excerpt from Schiller 1999..."

scroll down to "LHP Account", paragraph just above "Laundry Area" on this page: http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682505/Second Floor
~~~

Over the years there has been a lot of speculation about the purpose of the "dated" underclothes. But, based on the interviews available to the public, I do not recall either parent being questioned by investigators about dates being written on their underclothes. And the Shiller/LHP quotes seem to imply that dates were written on BOTH children's underclothes.

 

[UKGuy]

You can quote Patsy all you like but the truth is 90% of the time she is lying so what is the point. Her memory is crystal clear about buying the panties for Jenny yet she can't remember if she bought some for jonbenet. She obviously knows they are a gift for Jenny, yet she says she threw the package in Jonbenet's drawer. Why? And if she did, where are they? Why wouldn't they still be there? Did she just decide not to get Jenny a present?

Way too many holes.

As to some of your other questions:

JB had a habit of asking people to wipe her, so her panties would have been around her ankles. It would be hard for anyone to determine the size. The big issue that you don't want to grasp is that the Ramsey's said they put her to bed and never changed her panties. They either had to match what she wore to the party or not be there at all.


As to Patsy semi opening all the packages. Well it would be pretty damned obvious if she only opened the box with the panties in them wouldn't it? Considering she's the only one that knew where they were?

People can laugh off whatever reasoning they like but somebody put those size 12s on JB and there had to be a reason for it. It wasn't an intruder and I wasn't JB. Take your pick.


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andreww,

You can quote Patsy all you like but the truth is 90% of the time she is lying so what is the point.

So we can separate her lies from the truth.

Her memory is crystal clear about buying the panties for Jenny yet she can't remember if she bought some for jonbenet

No, Patsy states quite clearly in her interview that JonBenet selected an item for purchase, Patsy cannot remember if they were size-12 or size-6 underwear.

5 Q. Was it something that was selected

6 by JonBenet?

7 A. I believe so.

8 Q. Was it your intention, when you

9 purchased those, for those to be for her,

10 not for some third party as a gift?

11 A. I bought some things that were

12 gifts and some things for her. So I

Note Patsy splits her purchases into gifts and some things for her, i.e. JonBenet!

Did she just decide not to get Jenny a present?

Patsy states quite clearly in her interview that she purchased size-12 underwear for her niece.

25 I think I bought a package to give to my niece.

2 Q. Which niece was that?

3 A. Jenny Davis.

...

10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,

11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your

12 niece, and one for JonBenet?

13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or

14 two.

Patsy does not wish to discuss any underwear purchase for JonBenet, so she says she cannot remember, but if she had purchased two packs of size-12 underwear, then there should still be a size-12 pack in the house.

JB had a habit of asking people to wipe her, so her panties would have been around her ankles. It would be hard for anyone to determine the size. The big issue that you don't want to grasp is that the Ramsey's said they put her to bed and never changed her panties. They either had to match what she wore to the party or not be there at all.

No, there is absolutely no requirement for underwear to match. Since, as per the size-12's themselves, the R's can claim JonBenet dressed herself in any size or day of the week underwear, due to bed-wetting, simple change of clothing, or even none at all!

The person who redressed JonBenet was not thinking back to the White's party, he was thinking about another R viewing JonBenet's underwear, or simply picked a pair of size-12's, since they were female underwear and served to redress JonBenet at that point in time.

As to Patsy semi opening all the packages. Well it would be pretty damned obvious if she only opened the box with the panties in them wouldn't it? Considering she's the only one that knew where they were?

And who would be any the wiser, since Patsy would toss the wrapping paper in the bin and place the remaining size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, just like she claimed she did!

People can laugh off whatever reasoning they like but somebody put those size 12s on JB and there had to be a reason for it. It wasn't an intruder and I wasn't JB. Take your pick.

Occam says its because the size-12's were female underwear?

Patently Patsy did not know about the size-12's, if JR did he never told Patsy prior to the interview, thus avoiding being told no size-12's were to be found in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

.

 

[UKGuy]

CorallaroC

From memory the dates related to the date of purchase?


So if the Wednesday pair of size-12's found on JonBenet are absent a date, what does that tell us?


.

 

[CorallaroC]

CorallaroC

From memory the dates related to the date of purchase?


So if the Wednesday pair of size-12's found on JonBenet are absent a date, what does that tell us?


.

Hi UKGuy, you have made a very GOOD POINT!!!! Let's think about this a little more...

IF the panties found on JBR had no date written on it, then several questions immediately come to mind...

Also, I recall reading a small detail from the PR interviews - the investigator asking her to look at a photo of the contents of JBR's cabinet drawers in the bathroom. IIRC investigator points out some pens or markers and asks PR if she finds it unusual to see them in the drawer. Wow! Could this mean more to the case than we ever realized before? UKGuy you are brilliant!

:great:


p.s. - Yes, the dates written on the children's underwear were said to be dates of purchase, as if PR had some sort of system to know when to throw the items out. But really, we don't know WHY she wrote the purchase dates - she might have had some other "reason" that made sense to her, or fit in with an odd obsession.

 

[andreww]

andreww,

So we can separate her lies from the truth.


No, Patsy states quite clearly in her interview that JonBenet selected an item for purchase, Patsy cannot remember if they were size-12 or size-6 underwear.

Note Patsy splits her purchases into gifts and some things for her, i.e. JonBenet!


Patsy states quite clearly in her interview that she purchased size-12 underwear for her niece.

Patsy does not wish to discuss any underwear purchase for JonBenet, so she says she cannot remember, but if she had purchased two packs of size-12 underwear, then there should still be a size-12 pack in the house.


No, there is absolutely no requirement for underwear to match. Since, as per the size-12's themselves, the R's can claim JonBenet dressed herself in any size or day of the week underwear, due to bed-wetting, simple change of clothing, or even none at all!

The person who redressed JonBenet was not thinking back to the White's party, he was thinking about another R viewing JonBenet's underwear, or simply picked a pair of size-12's, since they were female underwear and served to redress JonBenet at that point in time.


And who would be any the wiser, since Patsy would toss the wrapping paper in the bin and place the remaining size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, just like she claimed she did!


Occam says its because the size-12's were female underwear?

Patently Patsy did not know about the size-12's, if JR did he never told Patsy prior to the interview, thus avoiding being told no size-12's were to be found in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

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I am not following you at all. Sorry, its getting too complicated to debate the subject anymore. But a couple of easy bits...

11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your

12 niece, and one for JonBenet?

13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or

14 two.

As I said, Patsy has memory loss about buying panties for JB. She remembers buying size 12s, not size 6s.

No, Patsy states quite clearly in her interview that JonBenet selected an item for purchase, Patsy cannot remember if they were size-12 or size-6 underwear.

Why on gods earth would JB select size 12 underwear and why would Patsy let her?

Occam says its because the size-12's were female underwear?

Sorry, its about time someone said it, Occam's Razor is the most hair brained way of thinking I've ever come across.

The person who redressed JonBenet was not thinking back to the White's party, he was thinking about another R viewing JonBenet's underwear, or simply picked a pair of size-12's, since they were female underwear and served to redress JonBenet at that point in time.

You know this how?

 

[OliviaG1996]

Hi UKGuy, you have made a very GOOD POINT!!!! Let's think about this a little more...

IF the panties found on JBR had no date written on it, then several questions immediately come to mind...

Also, I recall reading a small detail from the PR interviews - the investigator asking her to look at a photo of the contents of JBR's cabinet drawers in the bathroom. IIRC investigator points out some pens or markers and asks PR if she finds it unusual to see them in the drawer. Wow! Could this mean more to the case than we ever realized before? UKGuy you are brilliant!

:great:


p.s. - Yes, the dates written on the children's underwear were said to be dates of purchase, as if PR had some sort of system to know when to throw the items out. But really, we don't know WHY she wrote the purchase dates - she might have had some other "reason" that made sense to her, or fit in with an odd obsession.

Also, if I'm remembering correctly, LE received the remaining six pairs of size 12s still rolled and in the package. Which, of course, means those pairs had no dates written on them in waterproof marker, either. IMO, this is further evidence that the size 12s were never in JBR's drawer and that JBR never wore any of those size 12s before.

 

[UKGuy]

Hi UKGuy, you have made a very GOOD POINT!!!! Let's think about this a little more...

IF the panties found on JBR had no date written on it, then several questions immediately come to mind...

Also, I recall reading a small detail from the PR interviews - the investigator asking her to look at a photo of the contents of JBR's cabinet drawers in the bathroom. IIRC investigator points out some pens or markers and asks PR if she finds it unusual to see them in the drawer. Wow! Could this mean more to the case than we ever realized before? UKGuy you are brilliant!

:great:


p.s. - Yes, the dates written on the children's underwear were said to be dates of purchase, as if PR had some sort of system to know when to throw the items out. But really, we don't know WHY she wrote the purchase dates - she might have had some other "reason" that made sense to her, or fit in with an odd obsession.

CorallaroC,
Thanks , your recollection regarding the markers and pens makes complete sense to me, i.e. that's what Patsy probably used to date the underwear?

No investigator asked Patsy: Why is there no date on the size-12's, if you normally date-mark JonBenet's underwear?

Presumably the underwear taken under the search warrants will all have dates on them?

.