(To the bolded) PR never says that. You're seeing things that aren't there and are over-thinking this. Stop desperately trying to make it fit your personal theory and just take the evidence as is.
The oversized Bloomingdales panties.
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(To the bolded) PR never says that. You're seeing things that aren't there and are over-thinking this. Stop desperately trying to make it fit your personal theory and just take the evidence as is.
Userid,
Really, you appreciate I can read English, both GB and US versions?
Atlanta 2000 Patsy Interview excerpt
Patsy states she purchased the Bloomingdales size-12's.
Atlanta 2000 Patsy Interview excerpt
Patsy states JonBenet selected the Bloomingdales.
Am I still seeing things, you know like a seance medium?
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DrollForeignFaction
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I believe Userid is referring to this. Patsy never says if she bought 2 pairs of Bloomies - one for JB and one for Jenny - or if she just bought a set for Jenny.
Haney cuts her off, but she seems to be saying she doesn't know if they were for JB or a gift for Jenny.
She thinks she bought **advertiser censored* package for her niece but does not answer the question whether any Bloomies were bought for JB's use. Haney asks again:
And the conversation continues as to why JB was wearing oversized underpants, and if she wore them before the 25th. Patsy, as usual, doesn't know. Later:
And again:
So was there a package of size 6 Bloomies or not? Patsy won't say.
Patsy initially told Haney in 98 that she had bought two packages; she later amends this statement in her 2000 interview with Bruce Levin and says she "really can't remember" if she bought more than one package of Bloomies.
Patsy is hedging about whether or not she bought two packages of Bloomies because it prevents LE from drawing any conclusions about the redressing. If Patsy says she bought two packages, LE would expect to find size 6 Bloomies in JonBenet's drawer; if Patsy says she only bought one package, it is very likely they were opened that night for the purpose of redressing because no size 12 Bloomies were found in her drawer either.
Patsy is hedging about whether or not she bought two packages of Bloomies because it prevents LE from drawing any conclusions about the redressing. If Patsy says she bought two packages, LE would expect to find size 6 Bloomies in JonBenet's drawer; if Patsy says she only bought one package, it is very likely they were opened that night for the purpose of redressing because no size 12 Bloomies were found in her drawer either.
I could not read the entirety of this thread so if this has already been brought up I apologize. On the first page it says something about Jonbenet's mother saying she wore size 8 to 10 underpants but only 4 to 6 were found in the drawers where they were kept. I cannot remember sizing of children any more (my kids are grown), so I don't know if that sounds correct (that she would at that point be wearing 8 to 10). What I'm wondering is what was found in the luggage that had been packed away for the trip? Isn't it possible that the 8 to 10 sizes were contained in the stuff for the trip and the older undies were left in the drawers at home?
As I recall, kids sizes generally relate to the child's age. JB was six, but small for her age, so 4-6 would probably be the correct size for her.
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Precisely, thank you DFF
AndHence,
BPD already know if there are size-6 Bloomingdale's in the drawer, they took away fifteen pairs of size-4 to size-6 underwear.
They also know with certainty that some of them are day of the week underwear, Patsy confirmed this in another interview.
Patsy cannot say she purchased two packs of size-12 underwear from Bloomingdale's, otherwise there should be thirteen pairs of size-12's somewhere in the house, and after exhaustive searching BPD found none.
Atlanta 2000 Patsy Interview, excerpt
Patsy says she purchased the size-12's JonBenet was found wearing.
Atlanta 2000 Patsy Interview, excerpt
Patsy is attempting to forget the size here, but she has already declared she purchased the Bloomingdale size-12's, so its not those she cannot remember. Patently Patsy did not buy two packs of size-12's, she just does not want to confirm she purchased Bloomingdale's size-6 underwear for JonBenet. So she prevaricates by saying I am not sure if I bought one or two, i.e. size-12's, she answers the wrong question.
Basically Patsy attempted to talk her way around the size-12's then realized what she had said meant there should be Thirteen pairs of size-12's left in the house, so she develops a strong case of Ramnesia.
Its safe to assume BPD know that there is a missing pair of size-6 Wednesday Bloomingdale's, since they have the remainder. Patsy has independently confirmed JonBenet had a drawer full of Day of the Week underwear.
So in court Patsy would be asked where the missing Wednesday size-6 pair went?
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Small quibble, but the Bloomis are sold in packs of 5 (weekdays) and therefore there would be only 9 missing pairs. 9 too many...
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questfortrue
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This is simply a summary of some points about the Bloomies. Apologies in advance to those whove studied this, know the history of the Bloomies and have posted this before.
In 1998 Haney asks Patsy the following -
16 THOMAS HANEY: Did JonBenet have
17 panties with the names of each day of the week
18 on it?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
20 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. And did she
21 wear those according to the day of the week or
22 was it just kind of --
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Just whatever.
24 THOMAS HANEY: Did she know, pay
25 much attention to what day of the week it was?
0237
1 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
2 THOMAS HANEY: So whatever would
3 come out of the drawer?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding).
No indication of what size these were, though Patsy agrees in 1998 that JonBenét had DOTW panties.
Advance to year 2000 Interviews -
21 Q. Okay. What we are trying to
22 understand is whether -- we are trying to
23 understand why she is wearing such a large
24 pair of underpants. We are hoping you can
25 help us if you have a recollection of it.
0084
1 A. I am sure that I put the package
2 of underwear in her bathroom, and she opened
3 them and put them on.
Here are a couple photos of an unopened package of Bloomies courtesy of Jayelles. (If you are new here, if you click on a photo it will provide a larger view.) Note two things about the package. First, they are sealed with a plastic ring which most likely would have to be cut with a knife or scissors. Patsy claimed JonBenét opened these. Second the Bloomies packages purchased by Jayelles in 2004 and 2006 contain 7 pair of panties.
Lastly, heres a photo of the difference in size between the 4-6 Bloomies and the 12-14 Bloomies. The Rs story was that she was zonked when she was placed in bed and only redressed in a pair of long johns. But as anyone whos ever undressed a sleeping child will know, had JB been wearing underwear this large, they would have come off when her black pants were removed.
Kane very explicitly conveys to Patsy in this interview that no size 12-14 Bloomies were found in the home. He plainly informs Patsy investigators removed 15 pair of JonBenéts underwear from the home, and they were all size 4-6. There also were no 8-10 size underwear as Patsy asserted she bought for her daughter.
For years its been conjectured that JonBenét was wearing Wednesday size 4-6 panties, and one of the Rs was concerned that these had been seen at FWs party if someone had assisted JB in the bathroom. In order to remove any forensic evidence, someone replaced those Wednesday size 4-6 panties with the Wednesday size 12-14 Bloomies which were missing when the Bloomies package was sent 6 years later to DA ML. Its not an unreasonable conjecture.
In 1998 Haney asks Patsy the following -
16 THOMAS HANEY: Did JonBenet have
17 panties with the names of each day of the week
18 on it?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
20 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. And did she
21 wear those according to the day of the week or
22 was it just kind of --
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Just whatever.
24 THOMAS HANEY: Did she know, pay
25 much attention to what day of the week it was?
0237
1 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
2 THOMAS HANEY: So whatever would
3 come out of the drawer?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding).
No indication of what size these were, though Patsy agrees in 1998 that JonBenét had DOTW panties.
Advance to year 2000 Interviews -
21 Q. Okay. What we are trying to
22 understand is whether -- we are trying to
23 understand why she is wearing such a large
24 pair of underpants. We are hoping you can
25 help us if you have a recollection of it.
0084
1 A. I am sure that I put the package
2 of underwear in her bathroom, and she opened
3 them and put them on.
Here are a couple photos of an unopened package of Bloomies courtesy of Jayelles. (If you are new here, if you click on a photo it will provide a larger view.) Note two things about the package. First, they are sealed with a plastic ring which most likely would have to be cut with a knife or scissors. Patsy claimed JonBenét opened these. Second the Bloomies packages purchased by Jayelles in 2004 and 2006 contain 7 pair of panties.
Lastly, heres a photo of the difference in size between the 4-6 Bloomies and the 12-14 Bloomies. The Rs story was that she was zonked when she was placed in bed and only redressed in a pair of long johns. But as anyone whos ever undressed a sleeping child will know, had JB been wearing underwear this large, they would have come off when her black pants were removed.
Kane very explicitly conveys to Patsy in this interview that no size 12-14 Bloomies were found in the home. He plainly informs Patsy investigators removed 15 pair of JonBenéts underwear from the home, and they were all size 4-6. There also were no 8-10 size underwear as Patsy asserted she bought for her daughter.
For years its been conjectured that JonBenét was wearing Wednesday size 4-6 panties, and one of the Rs was concerned that these had been seen at FWs party if someone had assisted JB in the bathroom. In order to remove any forensic evidence, someone replaced those Wednesday size 4-6 panties with the Wednesday size 12-14 Bloomies which were missing when the Bloomies package was sent 6 years later to DA ML. Its not an unreasonable conjecture.
AndHence,
Whether any of the underwear removed by BPD from JonBenet's underwear drawer was purchased at Bloomingdale's has not been made public
That they were day of the week, and size-6 has been confirmed by Patsy. As I mention BPD know if any of the underwear removed was Bloomingdale's, they just need too look?
They managed to get Patsy to account for the size-12's but not the size-6 underwear, i.e. no questions about missing underwear.
Patsy could not remember if she purchased size-6 underwear for JonBenet. Note the R's returned 6 pairs of size-12's, implying Patsy purchased JonBenet size-6 underwear, e.g. those left in her drawer?
BPD would not be concerned about questioning Patsy with queries regarding Bloomingdale size-6 underwear if there were none in her underwear drawer!
To dress JonBenet in Wednesday size-12 underwear would defeat the external observer test on the size feature, discounting that the decoration might not match?
Patsy attempted to cover either for JR or BR here, and fell down. Basically neither BR or JR told her they hid the remaining size-12's?
This tells you the parents did not know the full story, or the case is really JDI?
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(To the bolded) Yes, they would. The fact that she was found in size 12's alone would make the BPD question if she had ever purchased size 6's, even if none were ever recovered. You have zero proof that size 6's were ever recovered, other than PR's word that she had bought them for JBR in the past.
Userid,
BPD did ask her, that's the point! They wanted to lock her in to a query on the Bloomingdale size-6 underwear that she said she purchased for JonBenet, except she retracted that statement and forgot if she purchased size-12's or size-6's for JonBenet.
I might have zero proof but BPD have incontestable evidence either way, they emptied JonBenet's underwear drawer, all size-6's, and according to Patsy Day of the Week .
No Bloomingdale's means the intruder made off with the size-12's and size-6's?
Like I say BPD know if there is a missing pair of Wednesday Bloomingdale's, they are just not telling us.
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Userid,
BPD know why she was wearing size-12 underwear, i.e. someone patently redressed JonBenet, i.e. the crime-scene was staged!
That is CSI 101 stuff ...
Abslolutely 100%.
But because there is a missing pair of Wednesday size-6 Bloomingdale's!
Like I say BPD do not need to be concerned with the underwear in the drawer, i.e. its not suspicious, only with that underwear which is missing!
You even have Patsy forgetting the obvious in her interview, did she purchase Bloomingdale's for JonBenet?
Certainly not size-12's otherwise JonBenet would not need to request Jenny's set, would she?
So if there are Bloomingdale's size-6 in JonBenet's underwear drawer, and the Wednesday pair is missing, to lock Patsy in, BPD want to get her to say I purchased a set for JonBenet, then they can ask where she thinks the missing pair went?
They are not really interested in the size-12's, they know their origin, Patsy is on record saying she purchased them.
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Again, it is crucial to know whether or not LE recovered any of the size 6 day of the week Bloomies for reasons I have stated in my last post. If LE found 6 pairs of size 6 day of the week Bloomies with Wednesday missing that would go a long way towards establishing that she was redressed into the size 12s and that the size 6 Wednesday pair was discarded. Without knowing this, however, we cannot properly assess Patsy's responses.
I keep hearing about what LE recovered from the house in the drawers or bathroom (wherever they were kept). Do we know if LE took the clothing that had been packed on the plane for the trip? Seems to me those should count as far as finding what all she had or what may have been missing. I know they didn't ask for the parents clothing until a year later, so it makes me wonder if they checked what was in suitcases on the plane or ready to go in luggage still in the home for the trip to Michigan and the Disney cruise. You can't really do laundry on a cruise so you have to have plenty of clean clothing, particularly underwear. There should have been several pairs packed in the luggage.
They know she was found in size 12 underwear. Nothing more. You're taking way too many liberties here.
Again, there is zero evidence there were any (not only Wednesday, but any) size 6 Bloomies in her drawer at all. You're simply assuming such.