The Possible Abuse of Caylee REVISIT

[OneLostGrl]

Thank you all for sharing your stories. When you think about it, times have really changed a lot. It's a wonder how any of us get through a day taking into account all the wacky stuff we did and were exposed to by the generation before us as well as the one we are a part of.

When I read that OLG was born in the 70's, I thought, "wait, I was of the opinion I was older than OLG". It took me a few minutes to sort it out that I was born in the 50's and graduated HS in the 70's. Yikes. But I didn't become a mother until much later in life breaking the cycle of the 21/22 year difference that seemed the trend between mother and child in my maternal line. When you're an older mom, you know too much and it's hard to relax. When you're a younger mom, you know too little and relax too much - ha!
Most of us try to do our best and do okay short of serious mental issues but it's tough. My mom always says "just love, show your love, let him know he is loved, never let him forget that you love him." Even though my mom was around KC's age when I was born, she always took care of me and I felt safe. But my mom would go into a sadness kind of thing because she saw her mom struggle through the depression alone. I've posted before that my mom was the original latchkey kid (she had an aunt nearby and the three flat she lived in had good neighbors - one phone in the hallway to share within the building). My mom would turn inward at times and I think I may have thought it had something to do with me. I learned that from reading here. She says she felt so lonely as a child at times yet she is one of the nicest (too nice) peeps you'd ever want to meet but insecure too (yet I wouldn't describe her that way anymore). Somehow she's always had a strong sense of right from wrong and is honest as the day is long. Children notice those things.

The reason I share the above is because we all are broken to some degree, in some way. We can grow and do grow when we want to. Ultimately we are responsible for figuring out ourselves I guess but it's interesting to study the whys but not to get stuck there. Luckily we can't relate to wanting to hurt a child which is why I became captivated by this case. I still can't wrap by brain around people who want to hurt a child - it's near impossible for me to fathom.

Like so many of the other things I share with ya'll about my past, I am not proud of this and it's embarrasing to admit but I can fathom wanting to hurt a child. I got sick sick sick after my son was born, at this point I was still undiagnosed.. He was having issues with sleep like all babies do sometimes. I tried everything to get him to sleep.. I even went so far as to climb into his crib and try to sleep in there with him so I knew he was safe but I could still get sleep but he liked that and thought it was play time. It was frustrating and I pushed my son- I shoved him away from me and pushed him down in his crib yelling "Go to f'ing sleep!" As soon as I did it I knew what I'd done was wrong- I knew I was capable of harming my child. It was a very scary feeling but above all else I knew I needed to get him away from me because obviously I was capable of things I never dreamt I could be capable of. So I left him in his crib and went outside and called my mother to tell her what I'd done and asked her to come get him.

We have choices in life, even when we are sick. To allow yourself to continue behaving in ways that you know in your heart are wrong and hurtful to others, is a choice. It's easier to keep doing what you have always done, to blame society, your parents, whoever but when it comes down to it it's all about choices.. and even mentally ill (and personality disordered) people are capable of choosing the right thing.

This is my wish for Cindy- that she finds an honest desire to change, some congnitive therapy and an anti-psychotic.That she finds it in her to realize she deserves better and kicks :loser: "poor George" to the curb. With both George and Casey gone and the proper tools she could stop living her life of a victim, a martyr and be happy with herself by herself and for herself. It's a little late, of course, Caylee is already dead, but it's still a nice thought.

 

[Gma Kat]

Thank you all for sharing your stories. When you think about it, times have really changed a lot. It's a wonder how any of us get through a day taking into account all the wacky stuff we did and were exposed to by the generation before us as well as the one we are a part of.

When I read that OLG was born in the 70's, I thought, "wait, I was of the opinion I was older than OLG". It took me a few minutes to sort it out that I was born in the 50's and graduated HS in the 70's. Yikes. But I didn't become a mother until much later in life breaking the cycle of the 21/22 year difference that seemed the trend between mother and child in my maternal line. When you're an older mom, you know too much and it's hard to relax. When you're a younger mom, you know too little and relax too much - ha!
Most of us try to do our best and do okay short of serious mental issues but it's tough. My mom always says "just love, show your love, let him know he is loved, never let him forget that you love him." Even though my mom was around KC's age when I was born, she always took care of me and I felt safe. But my mom would go into a sadness kind of thing because she saw her mom struggle through the depression alone. I've posted before that my mom was the original latchkey kid (she had an aunt nearby and the three flat she lived in had good neighbors - one phone in the hallway to share within the building). My mom would turn inward at times and I think I may have thought it had something to do with me. I learned that from reading here. She says she felt so lonely as a child at times yet she is one of the nicest (too nice) peeps you'd ever want to meet but insecure too (yet I wouldn't describe her that way anymore). Somehow she's always had a strong sense of right from wrong and is honest as the day is long. Children notice those things.

The reason I share the above is because we all are broken to some degree, in some way. We can grow and do grow when we want to. Ultimately we are responsible for figuring out ourselves I guess but it's interesting to study the whys but not to get stuck there. Luckily we can't relate to wanting to hurt a child which is why I became captivated by this case. I still can't wrap by brain around people who want to hurt a child - it's near impossible for me to fathom.

bbm: What an excellent point and so well put. This explains why as a grandmother I freak when I see my daughters doing what I did!!!!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Like so many of the other things I share with ya'll about my past, I am not proud of this and it's embarrasing to admit but I can fathom wanting to hurt a child. I got sick sick sick after my son was born, at this point I was still undiagnosed.. He was having issues with sleep like all babies do sometimes. I tried everything to get him to sleep.. I even went so far as to climb into his crib and try to sleep in there with him so I knew he was safe but I could still get sleep but he liked that and thought it was play time. It was frustrating and I pushed my son- I shoved him away from me and pushed him down in his crib yelling "Go to f'ing sleep!" As soon as I did it I knew what I'd done was wrong- I knew I was capable of harming my child. It was a very scary feeling but above all else I knew I needed to get him away from me because obviously I was capable of things I never dreamt I could be capable of. So I left him in his crib and went outside and called my mother to tell her what I'd done and asked her to come get him.

We have choices in life, even when we are sick. To allow yourself to continue behaving in ways that you know in your heart are wrong and hurtful to others, is a choice. It's easier to keep doing what you have always done, to blame society, your parents, whoever but when it comes down to it it's all about choices.. and even mentally ill (and personality disordered) people are capable of choosing the right thing.

This is my wish for Cindy- that she finds an honest desire to change, some congnitive therapy and an anti-psychotic.That she finds it in her to realize she deserves better and kicks :loser: "poor George" to the curb. With both George and Casey gone and the proper tools she could stop living her life of a victim, a martyr and be happy with herself by herself and for herself. It's a little late, of course, Caylee is already dead, but it's still a nice thought.

bbm - ain't that the truth! If we never admit our wrongdoings, how can we ever hope to encourage another to overcome theirs? It's pushing stuff under the rug continually that leads to those family dysfunctions. It took courage to admit that OLG especially at the time it happened. God grant me the courage to ... change the things I can. Smart girl you.

 

[wenwe4]

Like so many of the other things I share with ya'll about my past, I am not proud of this and it's embarrasing to admit but I can fathom wanting to hurt a child. I got sick sick sick after my son was born, at this point I was still undiagnosed.. He was having issues with sleep like all babies do sometimes. I tried everything to get him to sleep.. I even went so far as to climb into his crib and try to sleep in there with him so I knew he was safe but I could still get sleep but he liked that and thought it was play time. It was frustrating and I pushed my son- I shoved him away from me and pushed him down in his crib yelling "Go to f'ing sleep!" As soon as I did it I knew what I'd done was wrong- I knew I was capable of harming my child. It was a very scary feeling but above all else I knew I needed to get him away from me because obviously I was capable of things I never dreamt I could be capable of. So I left him in his crib and went outside and called my mother to tell her what I'd done and asked her to come get him.

We have choices in life, even when we are sick. To allow yourself to continue behaving in ways that you know in your heart are wrong and hurtful to others, is a choice. It's easier to keep doing what you have always done, to blame society, your parents, whoever but when it comes down to it it's all about choices.. and even mentally ill (and personality disordered) people are capable of choosing the right thing.

This is my wish for Cindy- that she finds an honest desire to change, some congnitive therapy and an anti-psychotic.That she finds it in her to realize she deserves better and kicks :loser: "poor George" to the curb. With both George and Casey gone and the proper tools she could stop living her life of a victim, a martyr and be happy with herself by herself and for herself. It's a little late, of course, Caylee is already dead, but it's still a nice thought.

You did what KC did not. You reached out to someone who could help you, admitted your faults right away, felt ashamed, and vowed never to let things get that bad before you would ask for help again. You recognized your own need and your child's need and was able to respond appropriately (eventually). You were trying everything in your "toolbox" including some unconventional things and I for one would like to applaud that you are able to reflect back on that time in your life as a major life changing event. Thru the struggles comes the strengths and you made a decision in that particular moment that your child deserved better. I think you hit the nail on the head w/KC's thinking pattern at that time. Caylee was "clingy" and would not go to sleep without KC. CA demanded that KC be home to put Caylee to bed and there was no other viable options for daycare. So, KC made a decision to meet her own needs and discard her daughter, but I believe it very well may have happened in a fit of rage (much like the internal war you described). Thank you for sharing. And ultimately - you are a good mom!

 

[3doglady]

Awesome posts Woe be Gone and One Lost Girl! I meet such beautiful people on WS.

 

[LambChop]

Even when you do something in a fit of rage, and we are all capable of rage at some point, we are remorseful afterwards regardless of whether we acted on the fit or just thought about doing it. KC has never shown the least bit of remorse. jmo

 

[OneLostGrl]

Even when you do something in a fit of rage, and we are all capable of rage at some point, we are remorseful afterwards regardless of whether we acted on the fit or just thought about doing it. KC has never shown the least bit of remorse. jmo

 

[magic-cat]

Like so many of the other things I share with ya'll about my past, I am not proud of this and it's embarrasing to admit but I can fathom wanting to hurt a child. I got sick sick sick after my son was born, at this point I was still undiagnosed.. He was having issues with sleep like all babies do sometimes. I tried everything to get him to sleep.. I even went so far as to climb into his crib and try to sleep in there with him so I knew he was safe but I could still get sleep but he liked that and thought it was play time. It was frustrating and I pushed my son- I shoved him away from me and pushed him down in his crib yelling "Go to f'ing sleep!" As soon as I did it I knew what I'd done was wrong- I knew I was capable of harming my child. It was a very scary feeling but above all else I knew I needed to get him away from me because obviously I was capable of things I never dreamt I could be capable of. So I left him in his crib and went outside and called my mother to tell her what I'd done and asked her to come get him.

We have choices in life, even when we are sick. To allow yourself to continue behaving in ways that you know in your heart are wrong and hurtful to others, is a choice. It's easier to keep doing what you have always done, to blame society, your parents, whoever but when it comes down to it it's all about choices.. and even mentally ill (and personality disordered) people are capable of choosing the right thing.

This is my wish for Cindy- that she finds an honest desire to change, some congnitive therapy and an anti-psychotic.That she finds it in her to realize she deserves better and kicks :loser: "poor George" to the curb. With both George and Casey gone and the proper tools she could stop living her life of a victim, a martyr and be happy with herself by herself and for herself. It's a little late, of course, Caylee is already dead, but it's still a nice thought.

Girl, I salute you and do not believe you are lost at all. You are an example for us all and I admire your strength and your courage to no end. Casey Anthony is not even a HUMAN when I compare her with YOU!

 

[Tulessa]

Like so many of the other things I share with ya'll about my past, I am not proud of this and it's embarrasing to admit but I can fathom wanting to hurt a child. I got sick sick sick after my son was born, at this point I was still undiagnosed.. He was having issues with sleep like all babies do sometimes. I tried everything to get him to sleep.. I even went so far as to climb into his crib and try to sleep in there with him so I knew he was safe but I could still get sleep but he liked that and thought it was play time. It was frustrating and I pushed my son- I shoved him away from me and pushed him down in his crib yelling "Go to f'ing sleep!" As soon as I did it I knew what I'd done was wrong- I knew I was capable of harming my child. It was a very scary feeling but above all else I knew I needed to get him away from me because obviously I was capable of things I never dreamt I could be capable of. So I left him in his crib and went outside and called my mother to tell her what I'd done and asked her to come get him.

We have choices in life, even when we are sick. To allow yourself to continue behaving in ways that you know in your heart are wrong and hurtful to others, is a choice. It's easier to keep doing what you have always done, to blame society, your parents, whoever but when it comes down to it it's all about choices.. and even mentally ill (and personality disordered) people are capable of choosing the right thing.

This is my wish for Cindy- that she finds an honest desire to change, some congnitive therapy and an anti-psychotic.That she finds it in her to realize she deserves better and kicks :loser: "poor George" to the curb. With both George and Casey gone and the proper tools she could stop living her life of a victim, a martyr and be happy with herself by herself and for herself. It's a little late, of course, Caylee is already dead, but it's still a nice thought.

I am sitting in front of my pc a bawling. OLG I admire you so much for reaching out for help. That showed the depth of your love for your baby. Casey could have done the same thing but she chose to take a path that left *US* total strangers, trying to find justice for Caylee Marie. God bless you sweetheart!!!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Girl, I salute you and do not believe you are lost at all. You are an example for us all and I admire your strength and your courage to no end. Casey Anthony is not even a HUMAN when I compare her with YOU!

She is though. And somebody should have helped her a long time ago- Casey's parents failed her in a big way.

 

[magic-cat]

She is though. And somebody should have helped her a long time ago- Casey's parents failed her in a big way.

I know...and it is sad that her own parents did not deal with her in some form or fashion. I know I hear it all the time that the socio{and I know YOU are not convinced she is one } will wear you down and it is just so impossible to deal with them that you just give up but I cannot agree with that viewpoint. I have battled throughout my entire life FOR the sake of sanity and tiring as it IS, there is no alternative. You cannot give into the illness and succumb to it yourself and to do nothing is to do just that. George and Cindy had an opportunity to make Casey face her faults and to pay restitution for her crimes...instead, they chose to ignore and placate and look where that has brought them. Now they too are swallowed up...{I, like you, believe that Cindy and George are not well themselves so it is a vicious cycle difficult to break...perhaps in the next generation of their family, in Lee's offspring perhaps, it can be different...}

 

[Just Jayla]

You did what KC did not. You reached out to someone who could help you, admitted your faults right away, felt ashamed, and vowed never to let things get that bad before you would ask for help again. You recognized your own need and your child's need and was able to respond appropriately (eventually). You were trying everything in your "toolbox" including some unconventional things and I for one would like to applaud that you are able to reflect back on that time in your life as a major life changing event. Thru the struggles comes the strengths and you made a decision in that particular moment that your child deserved better. I think you hit the nail on the head w/KC's thinking pattern at that time. Caylee was "clingy" and would not go to sleep without KC. CA demanded that KC be home to put Caylee to bed and there was no other viable options for daycare. So, KC made a decision to meet her own needs and discard her daughter, but I believe it very well may have happened in a fit of rage (much like the internal war you described). Thank you for sharing. And ultimately - you are a good mom!

In addition to the stress of motherhood, she had to have been near scraping bottom as far as her financial "ego". Not knowing if you are going to run out of gas because you have no money, having to walk in the hot Florida sun, potentially with a child in tow if you do; Can't buy the things that your working friends can buy for themselves...and then heap on more stress: because of the things above, you are stealing and now have to look over your shoulder.
Instead of reaching out, KC got out a (proverbial) shovel and dug herself even deeper-That is the character flaw that most of us do not posess, that she had this drive to destroy everything around her instead of asking for real help.

 

[logicalgirl]

In addition to the stress of motherhood, she had to have been near scraping bottom as far as her financial "ego". Not knowing if you are going to run out of gas because you have no money, having to walk in the hot Florida sun, potentially with a child in tow if you do; Can't buy the things that your working friends can buy for themselves...and then heap on more stress: because of the things above, you are stealing and now have to look over your shoulder.
Instead of reaching out, KC got out a (proverbial) shovel and dug herself even deeper-That is the character flaw that most of us do not posess, that she had this drive to destroy everything around her instead of asking for real help.

I'm kind of wondering if Cindy ever got on her about being a single mother on welfare like my mother did. If that's why she invented the fancy jobs, etc. Except my situation was in the reverse. I was a very young single mother with two children and working two jobs - my mother told me I thought I was better than other people and I should stay home with my kids on welfare. That's not what she did of course -she stayed home on welfare alright, but sine since she didn't make an effort either way, we spent almost our entire childhood bouncing from foster home to foster home, and I was determined my children would never experience what I had.

 

[magic-cat]

In addition to the stress of motherhood, she had to have been near scraping bottom as far as her financial "ego". Not knowing if you are going to run out of gas because you have no money, having to walk in the hot Florida sun, potentially with a child in tow if you do; Can't buy the things that your working friends can buy for themselves...and then heap on more stress: because of the things above, you are stealing and now have to look over your shoulder.
Instead of reaching out, KC got out a (proverbial) shovel and dug herself even deeper-That is the character flaw that most of us do not posess, that she had this drive to destroy everything around her instead of asking for real help.

She could have cured the ills of her bruised financial ego with one simple technique: get a J. O. B.
So simple, and yet, she was willing to do THE most complicated and intricate actions to avoid this simple solution. A job...a thing that was apparently a worse fate than murdering her daughter and spending the rest of her life in jail...Now THAT is insanity!:banghead: Ironically SHE held the keys to helping her own self and would not have needed to ask anyone else...but rather than do THAT, the simple and realistic and HEALTHY thing...she chose all of this...

 

[OneLostGrl]

She could have cured the ills of her bruised financial ego with one simple technique: get a J. O. B.
So simple, and yet, she was willing to do THE most complicated and intricate actions to avoid this simple solution. A job...a thing that was apparently a worse fate than murdering her daughter and spending the rest of her life in jail...Now THAT is insanity!:banghead: Ironically SHE held the keys to helping her own self and would not have needed to ask anyone else...but rather than do THAT, the simple and realistic and HEALTHY thing...she chose all of this...

Almost as if she were on a quest to prove her mother right about her, ya know? Like she's saying "Let's see how low I can go, how many lives I can destroy."

... "On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken"

 

[kaRN]

Those strong bones around the eye sockets seem to be a very common area for toddlers to get little cuts and bruises, at least from what I've seen and heard. Thank heavens we have those prominent bones around our eyes to protect the eye. I'm hyper safety conscious, but my son had more than one instance of a cut or bruise in that area around the age of 2-3. Once he ran into a jungle gym at preschool with his eyebone believe it or not and had a full black (purple) eye and cut (he still has the scar.) I think part of it has to do with the fact that they are growing so fast, they try to rush into places they could get into easily one week and the next week they bang their head or eye trying to do the same thing. Also, I can remember at the age of 3 it used to drive me crazy, because kids of that age love to run while looking over their shoulder behind them (not watching where they are going). It's weird!

It's because their heads occupy such a large percentage of their total body surface. In an adult, the head occupies 1/6 of the total height. In an infant, the head occupies 1/3 of the total height. Due to the weight of the head, toddlers tend to walk head first, and fall forward more easily.
The injuries we see around Caylees eyes would only be suspicious if the story told and injury didn't match IMO.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

This might sound sort of weird but I just thought of it from a new :waitasec: angle. I'm not sure how to approach this but, other than Jesse, she seemed to choose boyfriends who were not very generous to her. Considering she was out in the world (wait, she was not out in the world - job, etc.) operating with good looks on her side, why didn't she go for a more professional type of guy. She went for cops (who she claims to mistrust and students who are not settled yet). Considering she was already a mom and not a student like she pretended to be, she was living a role that she didn't fit. At 22, she was conducting herself more like a teenager - jumping from man to man. Another area of her life that her parents claim to be clueless about even though she lived under their roof. :waitasec: Maybe it's the times, but I remember having a lot of dinner/show dates by the time I was 22. That is, I didn't hang around with groups of people as if I were a teenager anymore. We'd all go out to a club or something but I went on real dates too. KC does seem a lot younger emotionally - yet she kept this hidden from her friends who were around her often even though the new groups hadn't known her for very long. :waitasec: Wait, I think I just described a trait of a Sociopath - I keep forgetting. If it's not that though, she is in some way emotionally dwarfed imo.

This has a lot to do with her relationship with her father imo. He was not a good rolemodel and this confused and hurt her and I think she seriously resents him - moo.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm kind of wondering if Cindy ever got on her about being a single mother on welfare like my mother did. If that's why she invented the fancy jobs, etc. Except my situation was in the reverse. I was a very young single mother with two children and working two jobs - my mother told me I thought I was better than other people and I should stay home with my kids on welfare. That's not what she did of course -she stayed home on welfare alright, but sine since she didn't make an effort either way, we spent almost our entire childhood bouncing from foster home to foster home, and I was determined my children would never experience what I had.

Your story is of great interest to me. I've often wondered why some strong individuals manage to break away from patterns that they recognize as being destructive virtually on their own. Others, repeat the patterns even though they know they are wrong. Still others repeat patterns but don't seem to realize they are wrong but it's all they know. How does this work? Did you have other role models in your life? Where does your strength come from? Good for you.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

To me, it is a foregone conclusion that Caylee was abused. Casey was abusive in every aspect of her life. There is no way Caylee escaped that. Dr. Green even said Caylee was 'savagely abused'.

 

[magic-cat]

To me, it is a foregone conclusion that Caylee was abused. Casey was abusive in every aspect of her life. There is no way Caylee escaped that. Dr. Green even said Caylee was 'savagely abused'.

Dr Green? Can someone refresh my memory on whom this is?:waitasec: