The psychology of the day: Christmas gifts and other considerations

[kazzbar]

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Very Interest Post! Several of my adult cousins have had these large dolls made to look like their children. I can't remember the name of the dolls, but they came from New York and were terribly expensive. I always thought they were stupid, but then I was never into dolls that were meant to look at and virtually never play with.

In my opinion, JBR's reaction to the doll facimili of her was similar to the tiff the night of the party when she verbalized that she did not want to wear a sweater similar to her mother's. (PR wanted her to wear a red sweater and black velvet pants so that they would be dressed alike.) My mother always had dresses made for me which matched hers when I was young. (Actually, until I was in about the 5th gade... ( I always knew there was some reason why I am such 'damaged merchandise'!!) My extended family all dresses alike at Christmas. Each female of each individual family wears the exact same outfit as her closest female relatives. (and to make it even sicker the males wear coordinating colored shirts!) Extremely Corny!!!!!!!!!! I know! I thought it was fun for a few years and I went along, but I quit doing it many years ago and got poo-pooed on by my family for it. I also am guilty of buying matching shirts for my two sons who are three years apart in age... This came to an abrupt halt when they grew up enough to exert their own independance. (I highly respected them for it.)

The issue with JBR that most concerns me about this is her saying she was not pretty. Wasn't it said that some lady saw her crying on the steps and asked her what was wrong....and that was the reason she gave???

Was this a comment from a child who was damaged by being made-up and paraded around as if she were an object rather than a person with feelings at such a very young age that it had totally warped her internal value system by the age of SIX??? Were her reactions to the doll because it was suppose to look like her and she felt unpretty but no one bothered to notice these !!!!!! signs!!!!! of a kid needing much different forms of parenting than she was receiving????

Or were they the remarks of a child who had been molested? From personal childhood experience, I can tell you nothing in my life made me feel less attractive or less worthy....

As for the bedwetting and soiling...why were common sense solutions such as setting an alarm to go during the night to get them accustom to awakening tried? What about spending some cash on the little sensor belts which alarm at the first sign of wetness? These are prescribed by doctors for heavens sake... Were there alternative methods reported that showed PR ever interveined as a Mother and tried to help her cope or fix JBR's issues with wetting and soiling? All I have read were the reports that JBR was scolded for soiling and wetting and those reports from the housekeeper which said JBR seemed to feel that the bathroom as the place of punishment and that she often heard her crying from the bathroom.

In my opinion this child viewed herself in a very negative light and would have benefited greatly from a day of making mudpies in the backyard with her mother and then over and over agin with some friends her own age... (but then I was just an elementary school teacher... What do I know?...)

Excellent Post Angelwngs. I agree a day of mud pies would have done JBR the world of good.could it be that the poor kid suffered from a lack of confidence and low self esteem? Could be the case. It sounds like the bed wetting thing was very badly managed by Patsy but how do we really know. I think the whole pageant thing was more of a kick for Patsy.Everything was for Patsy. Of course, Mums push their kids into things that interest them initially but if the kids do not want to do it then as they grow they will rebel. Haveing said this there is'no' way my daughter would wear clothes like me or be happy with a doll for Christmas.In fact , I bought her one once when she was 2 and she would not have it.She gave it to our huge poodle!
How sad that the housekeeper said that the little girl cried in the Bathroom.Surely the Ramsay's could have got professional help for JBR and her bedwetting. My heart really goes out to Poor JBR.

 

[jeena]

Is there any evidence an intruder was in JBR's bedroom? How do we even know JBR was abducted from her bedroom, besides John and Patsy's statements to that effect. It was reported that JBR did not feel well Christmas Day, so maybe she was in bed before the Ramsey's went to Fleet White's house for 5:00 p.m. Chistmas dinner, which could account for the wet bed sheets that were found later. Maybe she never returned to her bedroom that evening.

After the Ramsey's left Fleet White's house, they delivered presents and returned home at 10.00 p.m. One of the gift recipients stated the JBR was sleeping in the car and never go out. I was wondering if someone at one of those stops the Ramsey's made, either by accident or intentionally, caused JBR's head injury. When the Ramsey's arrived home, her condition could have worsened and the Ramsey's thought she was dead, and then took her to the basement and staged the garote and wrote the ransom note to protect someone.

The scream the next door neighbor heard could have come from Patsy as they were staging, not JBR.

It's been reported that Patsy doesn't know where JBR ate the pineapple, it could have been at Fleet White's, and not at the Ramsey house after they got home.

I can't understand why an intruder would hit that child over the head which such force to make her scream and possibly wake people in the house and/or neighbors, it doesn't make sense. The only way an intruder makes sense is if he was carrying or molesting her, and she fell on her head
accidentally on a hard surface, like the basement floor.

 

[SpongeBathHotPants]

Here is my interjection…. Patsy seemed like a “everything is perfect” kind of mom and so the smallest thing could have set her off. I know personally that with the stress of Christmas and everything that has to get done and then it all end with a big anticlimactic 30 minutes of unwrapping, add in a whine from a kid and poof, the calmest person can snap.



Example, I am a real laid back kind of mom and usually don’t get mad very easily but one year with all the stress and crap that goes on at Christmas my kids opened their gifts and the older one actually whined at me that they only got 7 presents each. Well, I had to go outside and drink a glass of wine or I would have wrung their little necks.



With all the other stuff that Patsy was going through I can imagine JB comment about not liking the doll or why did Burke get such a cool gift and I didn’t, add in her messing up her pants at a party and maybe some tension between PR and JR and poof, mommy snaps!!!

Just my :twocents:

 

[jeena]

My niece used to wet her bed and she just turned 11 years old last week and still wears pull-ups to bed, just in case. My brother and his wife were never upset with the child because of her problem, and they have the same stressors as most middle class families. I know because I live in the same house as them. Just once, my brother made the comment that all the sheets had to be washed over again because they were wet, and seemed a little annoyed. The Ramsey's didn't have the additional problem of washing the sheets, they had a housekeeper.

I know Patsy had the added stress of living with cancer, but I can't imagine her harming her child over bed-wetting or stressing over Christmas gifts.

I have been around kids almost every Christmas, and every year one of them voices their disappointment about gifts, I think it's a nomal part of Christmas and most of the gift givers accept it without hurt feelings. Last year I gave my niece fewer presents than her brother, even though hers were the same dollar value as his, and she made the comment that I didn't give her many gifts. like the year before.

Just a note: I read one very interesting post on another message board where the poster claimed she went to see the Ramsey home in Boulder about a year after the murder, and she was shocked to see many transients in the neighborhood. She said there was a Catholic Mission somewhere near the home and the Ramsey children rode their bikes near it.
She feels JBR could have come in contact with the transients in the neighborhood who gained her trust, and one of them could have been the intruder.

 

[Old Broad]

I'm wondering if JonBenet had ever told Santa before Christmas what she'd wanted for that year? Didn't they have Santa at the party on the 23rd?
I'm thinking that if there was any certain thing JonBenet was wanting for Christmas, well she would have gotten it!! The bike also was a big gift and I'm sure there were many others. Christmas also wasn't over for her either, she was still going to be seeing other members of the family and getting more presents. I'm thinking she was already starting to look forward to the next step rather than brooding about not really liking the doll. After the busy day she had it just doesn't seem to me that she would have had the energy to want to be up and having any kind of hissy fit after getting back from the Whites, she was 6 years old and would have been very tired and ready to be put in bed.

OB

 

[tamfish]

Hyatt, I think you could be onto something with the Nintendo vs. Doll idea. We always have the entire family at our house for Christmas Day (its a tradition!) so that means 8 kids who, in 1996, ranged in age from infants to 8 years old. The years my boys got video game systems (and there have been many - they always want the latest, greatest one) those kids would fight to be the ones playing. And it didn't matter how little they were! Even the toddlers will scream and stomp their feet for a turn on the controller.

So -- you may be onto something, yes. I have no problem believing that JonBenet would have wanted to play the Nintendo -- and might have made a bigger deal over it than her own doll.

As far as the "I'm not pretty" comment she made, I imagine a situation such as this: Patsy wants JB to wear a similar outfit so that they are dressed alike. JB fusses about it, and Patsy, trying to cajole her into the idea says something like, "But don't you want to be pretty like Mommy?"

Just my .2 cents.

 

[jeena]

It's possible that after the Ramsey's returned home from the White's, Burke wanted to play Nintendo and JonBenet could have played with him, or Burke wanted to play alone. Either way, maybe a fight broke out and Burke hit JBR in the head with the Nintendo control, and then the Ramsey's staged the garote and ramsom note. The Nintendo control is made of very hard material (plastic?), and it would be easy for a child to wrap his small hand around one side of the control and hit someone in the head with the other side of it.

I know my 5 year old nephew would want to play Nintendo until 1:00 a.m. in the morning and have arguments with his parents about it. The Ramsey's say they arrived home at 10:00 p.m. Chirstmas night, which would have been early enough for Burke to want to play new video games that he was excited to receive for Christmas.

My only reservation about this scenario is: Would the Ramsey's incur millions of dollars in legal expenses, forcing them to eventually have to sell their remodeled home in Atlanta, to protect their son for being blamed for an accidental death? Even if it was determined Burke committed murder, he still would not have been jailed in Colorado because of his age, and he probably wouldn't have been charged with murder because of John Ramsey's connections.

 

[wenchie]

You couldn't do that kind of damage to a skull with a remote control from a Nintendo.

The Nintendo set was intact and not broken, also.

 

[Brains & NoBull]

Regarding the "psychology of the day", these are just a few things that popped into my head while reading this thread:

Now, according to their account, John leaves for a good part of the afternoon between the gifts and the party they went to.

I know that John has previously admitted to having an affair (of which, I believe, Patsy was aware). Was he having this affair in December of 1996 and perhaps went to his mistress' house to spend a portion of Christmas with her? That would account for his leaving in between the present opening and the party. Perhaps, knowing that he would be on vacation for a number of weeks, he also spent time with his mistress after the party. If he left Patsy with sole care of Burke and JonBenet that night, it is possible that tensions were running even higher than the disappointment over the doll and one more accident on the part of JonBenet pushed Patsy over the edge.

Had John been with his mistress when JonBenet was killed, and then came home to find himself in a situation in which he had to "stage" his daughter's murder, it would be one more thing for a family so focused on appearances to remain tight lipped about. Also, I find it odd that JonBenet's headstone states that her death was on Christmas day when the official documents state that her death was on the 26th. I don't think that is by accident. I think that the Ramsey's (at least one of them) knew exactly when she died and the headstone reflects that.

All I have read were the reports that JBR was scolded for soiling and wetting and those reports from the housekeeper which said JBR seemed to feel that the bathroom as the place of punishment and that she often heard her crying from the bathroom.

JonBenet's crying in the bathroom could be a "chicken or the egg" situation. Was she crying because she would wet herself and then be punished while in the bathroom as is stated or were her accidents because the bathroom was where the abuse happened and she was fearful to go in there? Perhaps she was abused while having a bath? In my opinion, it seems like something so traumatic happened in the bathroom that she no longer wanted to enter it in order to relieve herself or clean properly. Most children do not cry in the bathroom unless they are traumatized by something.

 

[jeena]

There are several posts on a video game web-site (see below) referring to the console boxes being hard enough to crack a skull, not the controller, but I don't know how hard the Nintendo console from ten years ago was when JBR was killed:


" Bust a PS2 over some hobo's head. Then, find a second hobo and bust an XBox over his head. Drag the bodies side-by-side and see which, if either, is bleeding out the ears. THAT is the superior console. "


"My money's on the xbox, that thing can crack a skull. "


It's scary that anyone would even think of committing a violent act with an X-box console! Would the modern console boxes be damaged if they were used to crack someone's skull open?

Unfortunately I looked at the autopsy picture of JBR's cracked skull, it makes me sick to think someone inflicted so much damage on that poor child, accident or not.

 

[jeena]

I know that John has previously admitted to having an affair (of which, I believe, Patsy was aware). Was he having this affair in December of 1996 and perhaps went to his mistress' house to spend a portion of Christmas with her?

I read John Ramsey admitted to having an affair during his first marriage, not during his second one to Patsy.

 

[lannie]

Burke got the fun toy that year and JBR got the silly doll...could have caused conflict..who knows.
JBR also got a new pushbike...but Daddy was to busy with other things to help her learn how to ride it
That Christmas day started bad for JBR and got a hell of a lot worse.

She could not ride her bike, since she was being groomed for another pageant in a few weeks ,Pats could not take the chance of her skinning her knees,if you had been watching OPRAH she had Pageant moms on there telling the world that was one of the things their daughters could not do ,or roller skate ,also don't forget Gramps had just been fired, from access (john's co.)that must of changed the family dynamic in a big way ,also john had expressed to friends that he wanted to divorce Pats, so a lot was going on in that family at that time,

 

[Brefie]

Also, I find it odd that JonBenet's headstone states that her death was on Christmas day when the official documents state that her death was on the 26th. I don't think that is by accident. I think that the Ramsey's (at least one of them) knew exactly when she died and the headstone reflects that.

I think the date on the headstone is to generate sympathy. I know that if I sat a headstone that claimed a child of 6 had died on Christmas day, I would immediately want to cry for the parents.

PR tactic, IMO.