the question phase continues: Arias on the stand for the 18th day #85

[Hatfield]

Could be, in the theory of sticking as close to the truth as you can. A back up to the knife she had hidden in the bathroom.

In the same vein, I have a question for those of you who have studied those media interviews and Flores on the stand. When he made the mistake about the gun shot first, who all did he tell? Was it just the grand jury or did he say it to the media and defense as well?

Im not sure who he told but I am also not convinced he made a mistake. This is a hotly debated topic about whether she shot the gun first which I think she did and agree with Flores when he first said that.

On Dr. Drew tonight, there was a great guest who also believes the shot was first and he did a tremendous job of explaining why based solely on the autopsy report. He says the bullet trajectory shows it did not hit his brain so he thinks the shot could have been first in the shower when he was sitting down. Travis could have easily gotten up after the shot because bullet did not touch the brain according to what he said. Just sinus area.

Anyway no need to re-hash the debate on it, but that guest argued the point very well tonight about shot could have been first.

If shot was first, then Jodi had to have gun near the shower area. But she may have hid it in the closet corner during the day before she went to get it and get ready to kill him. It would be that partial truth that she is famous for. Mixing bits of truth and blaming it on travis putting it in corner of closet when she hid it there during day while they had sex.

Or she could have just had the gun and knife in backpack and backpack could have been in shower area with the camera as excuse why she needed backpack in the bathroom.

so many possibilities.

 

[dani]

If JA ever has to answer the SHELF question I bet she will say she cleaned up a bit as her fog came and went...good Lord!

She may try to say that, but, remember she said that when she came out of her fog, in the desert, she noticed there was blood on her hands which she washed off with Costco water from her trunk. (There were no blood stained items in the closet, at least on the shelves.)

 

[Observer in AZ]

I think he considered her more obsessive than dangerous. Of course I don't think he'd play Russian Roulette with his life. Dr. Lillian Glass says to run from the soft-spoken ones who talk in little-girl voices. But they seem so harmless!

If she'd made up her mind if she couldn't have him no one could, it wouldn't have made any difference if he turned her away or not. MOO.

Watching this trial I've learned many things 1) Be careful what you put in text/email 2) Be careful what photos you "share" with others... As I told a friend I DON'T ever want pics of my bits split screen with NG reading my texts NEVER :floorlaugh:

The other is this whole situation murder happened amongst people I could relate to that I'd be able to see as friends approx age, building careers, buying homes, settling down etc. SO I can understand why no one thought she'd brutally murder TA like this before.. she's the whacky ex who won't let go the slashing tires appeared immature I know it's said she did it twice but I've got feeling TA didn't believe both times...

I say that because my friend has ex wife like JA all BPD I parked my car at his house & went to school function for his child when we back I noticed issue with my car windows thought soaped shoe polished maybe waxed.. close look windshield, front windows & side mirrors were all sandpapered or maybe nail file!! I was angry felt immature act but HE ASKS WHO WOULD DO THIS? Even after he swore he'd seen her standing at fence to football field because he couldn't see her actually physically destroying property like that... AFTER watching this trial I wonder could she snap one day & murder him or me?? Because I'd never thought someone would go that far when had something to lose friends, career etc JMO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

It does make more sense that she would have shot him first, then ran and grabbed a knife while he was coughing up blood at the sink, came back and finished him off. The casing could have been kicked into blood while she was grabbing towels to throw in the wash.

But I'm going with the ME because he has the qualifications and all the evidence to use to make his conclusion.

 

[Observer in AZ]

How YOU doin'?

LOL funny funny!

 

[minor4th]

One of his closest friends was interviewed who said Travis read to him what he'd written Jodi. The friend asked, "Aren't you afraid she is going to hurt you?"

Travis himself wrote in his last blog of "desperately trying to find out if my date has an axe murderer inside her." How many people write that?

On some level he was worried. She had slashed all four of his tires, not once, but twice.

A doctor friend of Travis'--whose two sons lived with him for a while, said Travis came over for dinner regularly, and that he'd told them not to be surprised if he didn't show up one day, and ended up dead. On the 911 call, his friends named Jodi as the #1 suspect.

Yes, the odds are low that any given stalker is going to end up a murderer. I have had a stalker and I'm still alive. Travis wasn't so lucky.

I think it's easy to view it in hindsight and see that there were warning signs and that she was obviously dangerous. However, until she murdered Travis, there was no indication that she had ever done anything violent. Most people who have never dealt with a psychopath do not equate obsessive behavior with a potential for murder -- I really think most of the population has no idea just how potentially dangerous someone is when they exhibit stalking behaviors over a failed romantic relationship.

I think that most of the population has not spent time thinking about psychopaths and abnormal behavior and personality disorders and the potential harm that could befall someone for remaining engaged with that type of person. I do not think Travis had any idea whatsoever that Jodi was an actual threat to his physical safety.

And I don't think it's Travis' fault for not knowing about people like Jodi or not believing that she would kill him. He realized that something was wrong with her at times, but he also had plenty of experiences with her when she acted normal and appropriate. There were things about her that attracted him to her besides sex, and there were good qualities about her that sucked him in. She can come across as intelligent and well-spoken and confident and artistic and full of ideas and spiritual -- she has had her whole life to perfect her appearance in order to manipulate people into accepting her and liking her, and I don't think it's fair in hindsight to blame Travis for not knowing how dangerous she ended up being.

If it were that easy, if it were that black and white, then you'd have to blame every abuse survivor on this board for not immediately leaving their abuser the first time the abuser showed any signs of being abusive. It almost never works that way, and there's a reason for that -- psychopaths are very persuasive with their charm and their apologies and what seems like a sincere promise to behave better.

 

[Observer in AZ]

I think it's easy to view it in hindsight and see that there were warning signs and that she was obviously dangerous. However, until she murdered Travis, there was no indication that she had ever done anything violent. Most people who have never dealt with a psychopath do not equate obsessive behavior with a potential for murder -- I really think most of the population has no idea just how potentially dangerous someone is when they exhibit stalking behaviors over a failed romantic relationship.

I think that most of the population has not spent time thinking about psychopaths and abnormal behavior and personality disorders and the potential harm that could befall someone for remaining engaged with that type of person. I do not think Travis had any idea whatsoever that Jodi was an actual threat to his physical safety.

And I don't think it's Travis' fault for not knowing about people like Jodi or not believing that she would kill him. He realized that something was wrong with her at times, but he also had plenty of experiences with her when she acted normal and appropriate. There were things about her that attracted him to her besides sex, and there were good qualities about her that sucked him in. She can come across as intelligent and well-spoken and confident and artistic and full of ideas and spiritual -- she has had her whole life to perfect her appearance in order to manipulate people into accepting her and liking her, and I don't think it's fair in hindsight to blame Travis for not knowing how dangerous she ended up being.

If it were that easy, if it were that black and white, then you'd have to blame every abuse survivor on this board for not immediately leaving their abuser the first time the abuser showed any signs of being abusive. It almost never works that way, and there's a reason for that -- psychopaths are very persuasive with their charm and their apologies and what seems like a sincere promise to behave better.

Bravo... well said.. I need to my post to say
See Minor4th post.. yeah ditto!
:floorlaugh:

 

[mamadee]

She says she arrived at the house at 4am. I personally don't think so. I think she was parked somewhere watching, but not in the house. All the things she was doing to keep anyone from knowing she was in Mesa and she's gonna screw that up by coming into the house when all three men would be there?

1. Rental car
2. Infamous Gas Cans
3. Probably replaced her CA plates with AZ plates on the rental.
4. Different hair color

I think she watched the house until both roommates were gone (about 11:30am). The roommates did not see her or a strange car in the drive or garage. The one roommate would definitely had known because he didn't even have a key to the house. He used the keycode on garage to enter house. I don't think TA even knew she was coming. Even if she did speak to him on the phone night/early morning. They often talked late at night. If she had told him, then there'd be a chance he might email or text someone about it. ZB was last roommate to leave the house that day and he saw TA as he was leaving at 1130. I believe she went in after that. She's gone to the trouble to not be seen and to set up an alibi with RB, it's blown if anyone knows she's there.

I think she was sitting at that park kiddy-corner across from Travis' house. From what I saw in the google image of his street, that park had some trees and with a rental car she could have hid in plain sight.

Wonder if anyone saw that car parked there?

 

[tommyray]

Good point - and welcome!!!

I'm wondering about that closet - I wonder why there seems to be nothing else on most of those top shelves. I wonder why? Perhaps they were difficult to access (too high?), structurally weak? It just seems odd that some are completely empty, one has a framed photo (not heavy)... just curious - jumping off your post.

Thank you.

I also noted that his closet was very neat and the shelves were well organized...shoes were lined up (dress shoes on one shelf, sneakers on another and so on). I get the impression that a person who organizes his closet like that would not place a loaded gun on the shelf like that. It just seems so out of place in that organized closet. If he had a handgun, it was probably for protection and in that case he'd have most likely kept it near his bed and not in his closet. And I seriously doubt that he brought a butcher knife upstairs to cut rope. He probably had a box-cutter or a pocket knife for that if indeed he did have a rope in this bedroom.

 

[writer7]

Also, TA did not have a father to teach him how to be a man. IMO TA should have not dissed JA and talked trash about her to his PPL friends while he was screwing her. Seems he did love the sex..so what he was 30 years old.

It wasn't trash. She did end up killing him, so it was a very valid thought.

And we don't grill female domestic violence victims on whether they continue to have sex with the men they are beginning to become afraid of. I don't think it's fair to paint Travis as just a cad when we know how complex the relationship had become. Maybe he was both afraid of her -- and felt silly for it -- and enjoyed their time together a lot of times, too. Is it so difficult to imagine that he may have been legitimately conflicted?

I do bet he felt silly for having thoughts that she might be dangerous. I felt silly for my thoughts like that about my psychopath before she hurt me. I thought I was over-reacting in my mind in a big way. Folks just aren't like that unless they are villains in movies or something, right? Yeah, now I know that's wrong, but that's how my thought process went I was to the point where I knew my friend couldn't be trusted one bit about money, etc, but I still didn't realize that it was true that she'd do something horrible.

She did something even worse later after me, btw. It's hard to wrap your head around someone you like really being that way. I'm sure JA did a lot to sear a sweet image in Travis' mind that was hard to disbelieve. I'm sure of it. I can still picture my psychopath being sweet and lovable. The Jeckyll-and-Hyde of it is truly hard to grasp if you've ever seen it in real life.

 

[looneymama]

How YOU doin'?

:floorlaugh: omg I laughed out loud and scared the dog!

 

[rose222]

So much to catch up on. Some people really need help. Geesh. :what:

Lots of love and prayers for our BELOVED Travis. Justice is heading your way, Travis. :great:

 

[dani]

Nancy finally lost the little girl barrette tonight. Maybe she isn't letting her little daughter dress her anymore :giggle:.

Yes… and I thought Nancy looked better than she ever has. The new hair style was great on her. The usual style looked like a yellow bucket on her head. (And I'm not a fan of NG! No way. No how.)

 

[mamadee]

How YOU doin'?

:giggle:

 

[Sulamith]

Originally Posted by Sulamith
Also, TA did not have a father to teach him how to be a man. IMO TA should have not dissed JA and talked trash about her to his PPL friends while he was screwing her. Seems he did love the sex..so what he was 30 years old.

Seriously????

What do you think makes a man?

Travis confided in his friends. Since when is this a bad thing?

Yes, Seriously!! TA led his half brothers and sisters and friends to beleive he was a virgin. He was dating JA and taking her on trips all the while leading his friends to believe he hated JA. A man does not kiss and tell.

 

[tommyray]

It does make more sense that she would have shot him first, then ran and grabbed a knife while he was coughing up blood at the sink, came back and finished him off. The casing could have been kicked into blood while she was grabbing towels to throw in the wash.

But I'm going with the ME because he has the qualifications and all the evidence to use to make his conclusion.

Some people are puzzled by the fact that JA brought a gun with her and if it is going to form the basis of premeditation then it logically follows that she used the gun first. But the gun jammed and so she had to use the knife to finish TA off. I believe however, that JA always intended to use a knife and a gun so that investigators would think that at least two persons were involved in the attack. That's why she inflicted so many stab wounds, cut his throat and then shot him. When she contacted Flores she asked him if he knew what weapons were used and she also made it a point to tell the detective that TA was fit and that she had a hard time believing that one person could overpower him. Right there, you can tell that she planned the murder. She knew that she was going to make it look like he had been attacked by at least two people. So she deliberately stabbed him multiple times before shooting him. Surely no one would think to look her way as she couldn't possibly stab TA all those times on her own (unless of course she took him by surprise while he was in a vulnerable position).

 

[christee]

It does make more sense that she would have shot him first, then ran and grabbed a knife while he was coughing up blood at the sink, came back and finished him off. The casing could have been kicked into blood while she was grabbing towels to throw in the wash.

But I'm going with the ME because he has the qualifications and all the evidence to use to make his conclusion.

Since you mentioned the casing I have one other matter I need to "throw out there". I call it my Beach Ball idea (no sarcastic chuckles or I'll post a "stink eye" :biggrin.
Think about what happens after you turn on the water to fill a small empty swimming pool with a beach ball (or any stable lightweight item) resting on the bottom. The water slowly spreads over the surface filling the lower areas first and as it reaches the ball the water "lifts" up the ball. Now, excluding wind or any activity in the pool that would cause the ball to rotate, only the one point of contact on the ball would be wet.

I haven't figured out if this idea would restrict the order of TA's injuries or be too simplistic to apply in this case but that's why I mentioned it...I'm hoping you guys will figure it out for me :biggrin:

 

[Dr. Know?]

I understand, and it's really easy for all of us to see that now that he is a murder victim, but do you think he thought she would murder him?

Myself, I'd worry a whacky person who could sneak up, ring the doorbell (I think if iirc) to point out my tires were slashed obviously & she had a knife!, Yeah I'd think that was the girlfriend from hell. I'm not a male so don't know how differently a male would react. If you are getting all of these tires slashed with a knife,...yes, I think he was afraid & she was beyond his scope of normality..normalcy etc..

Univited & so horribly planned out of ? Premeditation, it's everywhere. I just hope the jury is seeing this. Their questions are quite good.

 

[AngelWings444]

Watching the testimony from this morning again. When Mr. Martinez asks JA if she took the knife with her, you can see Wilmott shake her head NO!! Start at 35 seconds into the video. This should NOT be allowed in a courtroom!! :furious: :furious::banghead::banghead:

Got some pretty good screen shots of JA simulating the "gripping" of the knife. Woah. Since I don't know know how to post pics, it's right at the beginning of the video below.

Jodi Arias Trial - Day 30 - Part 2 - YouTube!

 

[AngelWings444]

I think it's easy to view it in hindsight and see that there were warning signs and that she was obviously dangerous. However, until she murdered Travis, there was no indication that she had ever done anything violent. Most people who have never dealt with a psychopath do not equate obsessive behavior with a potential for murder -- I really think most of the population has no idea just how potentially dangerous someone is when they exhibit stalking behaviors over a failed romantic relationship.

I think that most of the population has not spent time thinking about psychopaths and abnormal behavior and personality disorders and the potential harm that could befall someone for remaining engaged with that type of person. I do not think Travis had any idea whatsoever that Jodi was an actual threat to his physical safety.

And I don't think it's Travis' fault for not knowing about people like Jodi or not believing that she would kill him. He realized that something was wrong with her at times, but he also had plenty of experiences with her when she acted normal and appropriate. There were things about her that attracted him to her besides sex, and there were good qualities about her that sucked him in. She can come across as intelligent and well-spoken and confident and artistic and full of ideas and spiritual -- she has had her whole life to perfect her appearance in order to manipulate people into accepting her and liking her, and I don't think it's fair in hindsight to blame Travis for not knowing how dangerous she ended up being.

If it were that easy, if it were that black and white, then you'd have to blame every abuse survivor on this board for not immediately leaving their abuser the first time the abuser showed any signs of being abusive. It almost never works that way, and there's a reason for that -- psychopaths are very persuasive with their charm and their apologies and what seems like a sincere promise to behave better.

:highfive: Thank you!