The ransom note & Patsy Ramsey, letter by letter.

[Venom]

If I was a kidnapper and my plans went wrong and the kidnappee was killed , I would never leave a long rambling note of any kind to bring attention to myself .... and if I was to leave the body behind I would hope the focus was on everybody except me (make it look like an inside job)

If I left the body there and still wanted to collect a ransom I would have hidden the body behind the junk in the cellar room .... not lay her out on a nice blanket visible from the doorway

Only if it was an "inside job" would it make any sense to try to divert attention toward a "pretend kidnapper" .... and that was the purpose of the ransom note , period.

Good point. What person who tries to kidnap/kills someone is going to write a note leaving their handwriting at the scene, announcing they were there?

 

[Venom]

The most glaring hole in this theory is easily dismissed: the kidnapper had the home under scrutiny, he saw the police and others arrive and realized that the body was probably going to be found. So – no call.

So this intruder stayed in the house while the R's were gone, hid when they got home, sexually assaulted and killed JB, took all the evidence, and then hid in the bushes waiting to see if the R's called the police? How would he have the home under scrutiny to see the police arrive?

 

[TroyinTX]

old news, but I hadn't seen this before

Ransom Note Catch by Country Girl!!! - Forums For Justice

I hadn't seen this before either. VERY good catch and VERY telling!

 

[Tawny]

old news, but I hadn't seen this before

Ransom Note Catch by Country Girl!!! - Forums For Justice

Wow. Just... yep. Wow.

 

[Anyhoo]

OMG. That link is a huge catch. I'm amazed that nobody caught that before. That is what you call a smoking gun. I'd like to hear IDI proponents explain that one. Are you listening Scarlett? You say you only want to look at evidence. There is direct evidence of JR knowing something he should not have known if the Ramsey's had nothing to do with the RN.

 

[chlban]

Arnie M;10113589

If I was a kidnapper and my plans went wrong and the kidnappee was killed , I would never leave a long rambling note of any kind to bring attention to myself .... and if I was to leave the body behind I would hope the focus was on everybody except me (make it look like an inside job)

If I left the body there and still wanted to collect a ransom I would have hidden the body behind the junk in the cellar room .... not lay her out on a nice blanket visible from the doorway

Only if it was an "inside job" would it make any sense to try to divert attention toward a "pretend kidnapper" .... and that was the purpose of the ransom note , period

Exactly. Kidnappers kidnap-no reason to leave her in the house. Sexual killers molest and Kill -no reason to write a ransom note.

Writing a ridiculously long and rambling ransom note, while you are in the house makes no sense other than as a cover up.

Add that to the myraid of other factors and there is absolutely no logical conclusion other than RDI.

 

[chlban]

Venom;

10113972So this intruder stayed in the house while the R's were gone, hid when they got home, sexually assaulted and killed JB, took all the evidence, and then hid in the bushes waiting to see if the R's called the police? How would he have the home under scrutiny to see the police arrive

Ah yes, but don't forget this intruder decided the perfect day to break in would be Christmas. Now, we have all just experienced another Christmas. Tell me, do you all follow your normal routines on Christmas Day???

This is an element of the crime that has always bothered me. I realize it is not evidence that would hold up in a court of law, but in the court of common sense?

I am a total creature of habit. Someone could watch me for a few weeks and get a pretty good idea of what I do most days of the week and when I do it.
Christmas? All bets are off. Additionally, how does an intruder even know the Ramseys are in town on 12/25? Or if they are in town, how does he know that they don't have a housefull of houseguests? How would they know that Jonbenet is not, in fact, sharing her own bedroom with a couple of cousins as I often did as a child during the holidays. Yes, it's a big house, but how does an intruder know it isn't a big family?

My point is, if you can buy the ludicruos idea that someone is going to break in, without leaving a bit of evidence of a break in of course, and wait around for the Ramseys to come home and go to bed and then takes the time to write the War and Peace of ransom notes, on their paper with their sharpie (because evidently the very clever, highly organized criminal forgot his own paper!!!) then how do you buy that this genius pulls it off on Christmas day when virtually no ones routine is the same as it is any other time.

Oh, and BTW did Uncle Joe or cousin Sam make it to Christmas dinner? Because I can tell you for certain exactly what family members were with us on Christmas and which ones weren't. I cannot tell with the same certainty if cousin Sam was at that dinner we had at my sister's one Saturday in November. Yet this genius sits in the Ramsey house on the one day of the year where it is almost certain his family or friends will know he wasn't with them.

 

[Anti-K]

If I was a kidnapper and my plans went wrong and the kidnappee was killed , I would never leave a long rambling note of any kind to bring attention to myself .... and if I was to leave the body behind I would hope the focus was on everybody except me (make it look like an inside job)

If I left the body there and still wanted to collect a ransom I would have hidden the body behind the junk in the cellar room .... not lay her out on a nice blanket visible from the doorway

Only if it was an "inside job" would it make any sense to try to divert attention toward a "pretend kidnapper" .... and that was the purpose of the ransom note , period.

Someone said that there was no reason for an intruder to leave both note and body. The kidnapping scenario – which I do not believe – is just an example of a reason an intruder might leave both note and body. I can argue against it too, and I have (elsewhere).

All five scenarios are just examples of reasons an intruder might have for leaving both note and body in the house. These reasons – even if they do not describe what happened in this instance, in this crime – they are still reasons. Someone, somewhere, sometime may choose to do just this sort of thing for one of these reasons, or for some other unknown reason; maybe just to mess with our minds. Who knows?

These reasons disprove the claim that there is no reason for an intruder to leave both note and body in the house. Of course, the fact that there are reasons an intruder might have for leaving both note and body in the house doesn’t prove anything. RDI could still be true (although I doubt it).
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

From the same departments of the cord and tape.

Yes, iirc, you are right: same department. I’m not sure what significance this should be given as I know nothing about what other same-priced items were available in said department.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Good point. What person who tries to kidnap/kills someone is going to write a note leaving their handwriting at the scene, announcing they were there?

The note exists, somebody created it and that person did kill someone and they left their handwriting at the scene. If no one would do such a think then why would the Ramseys?

Actually, it is not uncommon for people to leave handwritten evidence that could potentially be traced back to them. Bomb threats, death threats, blackmail, hate mail, etc. are often hand written. You can see several examples here: http://tinyurl.com/myrq3lg and here: http://tinyurl.com/lmulp8l

Son of Sam, the Zodiac, BTK: examples of people who wrote letters by hand knowing full well that they were creating and providing investigators with evidence that could be used against them.

Of course, in most cases these writers are people who believed themselves to be exempt from scrutiny, that their handwriting would never be compared. This cannot be said for the Ramseys.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

So this intruder stayed in the house while the R's were gone, hid when they got home, sexually assaulted and killed JB, took all the evidence, and then hid in the bushes waiting to see if the R's called the police? How would he have the home under scrutiny to see the police arrive?

I think you missed the point; see post 808 above.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

OMG. That link is a huge catch. I'm amazed that nobody caught that before. That is what you call a smoking gun. I'd like to hear IDI proponents explain that one. Are you listening Scarlett? You say you only want to look at evidence. There is direct evidence of JR knowing something he should not have known if the Ramsey's had nothing to do with the RN.

What’s to explain? Mr Ramsey was wrong, but so are the posters who commented as neither note nor so-called practice note were addressed to Mr and Mrs Ramsey.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Arnie M;10113589

Exactly. Kidnappers kidnap-no reason to leave her in the house. Sexual killers molest and Kill -no reason to write a ransom note.

Writing a ridiculously long and rambling ransom note, while you are in the house makes no sense other than as a cover up.

Add that to the myraid of other factors and there is absolutely no logical conclusion other than RDI.

Actually, the FBI’s Kenneth Lanning has described <1> two offender types: molesters who happen to kill and killers who happen to molest. A reason why such a person may write a ransom note is documented I the same paper (I didn’t make any of this up!) <quote> An offender may eventually request a ridiculously small ransom for a child he had abducted to molest in an apparent attempt to convince others, but primarily himself, that he is not a sex offender” <unquote>

<1> Child Molesters Who Abduct: Summary of the Case in Point Series” Edited by Kenneth V. Lanning and Ann Wolbert Burgess http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/NC70.pdf
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Venom;

Ah yes, but don't forget this intruder decided the perfect day to break in would be Christmas. Now, we have all just experienced another Christmas. Tell me, do you all follow your normal routines on Christmas Day???

This is an element of the crime that has always bothered me. I realize it is not evidence that would hold up in a court of law, but in the court of common sense?

I am a total creature of habit. Someone could watch me for a few weeks and get a pretty good idea of what I do most days of the week and when I do it.
Christmas? All bets are off. Additionally, how does an intruder even know the Ramseys are in town on 12/25? Or if they are in town, how does he know that they don't have a housefull of houseguests? How would they know that Jonbenet is not, in fact, sharing her own bedroom with a couple of cousins as I often did as a child during the holidays. Yes, it's a big house, but how does an intruder know it isn't a big family?

My point is, if you can buy the ludicruos idea that someone is going to break in, without leaving a bit of evidence of a break in of course, and wait around for the Ramseys to come home and go to bed and then takes the time to write the War and Peace of ransom notes, on their paper with their sharpie (because evidently the very clever, highly organized criminal forgot his own paper!!!) then how do you buy that this genius pulls it off on Christmas day when virtually no ones routine is the same as it is any other time.

Oh, and BTW did Uncle Joe or cousin Sam make it to Christmas dinner? Because I can tell you for certain exactly what family members were with us on Christmas and which ones weren't. I cannot tell with the same certainty if cousin Sam was at that dinner we had at my sister's one Saturday in November. Yet this genius sits in the Ramsey house on the one day of the year where it is almost certain his family or friends will know he wasn't with them.

We don’t follow our normal routines art Christmas, but I suspect that there is such a thing as a normal Christmas routine.

As to how would an intruder know? You takes your chances, is what I say. If they hadn’t been home that night than nothing would have happened, if they had had someone spending the night then maybe nothing would have happened or maybe RDI would have an extra person or two to add to their suspect list!
...

AK

 

[Tawny]

Of course, in most cases these writers are people who believed themselves to be exempt from scrutiny, that their handwriting would never be compared. This cannot be said for the Ramseys.
...

AK

Actually, I'd say the same CAN be said for the Ramseys. I fully believe they thought themselves exempt from scrutiny. They were, after all, victims in all of this (at least that's how they intended it to go).

 

[Tawny]

What’s to explain? Mr Ramsey was wrong, but so are the posters who commented as neither note nor so-called practice note were addressed to Mr and Mrs Ramsey.
...

AK

BBM. Wrong.

"A search of the house uncovered the legal pad — complete with a ‘practice’ ransom note addressed to Mr and Mrs Ramsey..."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...net-Ramseys-death-finally-bring-answers-.html

 

[Uberfairy]

Actually, the FBI’s Kenneth Lanning has described <1> two offender types: molesters who happen to kill and killers who happen to molest. A reason why such a person may write a ransom note is documented I the same paper (I didn’t make any of this up!) <quote> An offender may eventually request a ridiculously small ransom for a child he had abducted to molest in an apparent attempt to convince others, but primarily himself, that he is not a sex offender” <unquote>

<1> Child Molesters Who Abduct: Summary of the Case in Point Series” Edited by Kenneth V. Lanning and Ann Wolbert Burgess http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/NC70.pdf
...

AK

What about the third type of offender? A killer who is a deliberate rapist/molester.

 

[Uberfairy]

Venom;

Ah yes, but don't forget this intruder decided the perfect day to break in would be Christmas. Now, we have all just experienced another Christmas. Tell me, do you all follow your normal routines on Christmas Day???

This is an element of the crime that has always bothered me. I realize it is not evidence that would hold up in a court of law, but in the court of common sense?

I am a total creature of habit. Someone could watch me for a few weeks and get a pretty good idea of what I do most days of the week and when I do it.
Christmas? All bets are off. Additionally, how does an intruder even know the Ramseys are in town on 12/25? Or if they are in town, how does he know that they don't have a housefull of houseguests? How would they know that Jonbenet is not, in fact, sharing her own bedroom with a couple of cousins as I often did as a child during the holidays. Yes, it's a big house, but how does an intruder know it isn't a big family?

My point is, if you can buy the ludicruos idea that someone is going to break in, without leaving a bit of evidence of a break in of course, and wait around for the Ramseys to come home and go to bed and then takes the time to write the War and Peace of ransom notes, on their paper with their sharpie (because evidently the very clever, highly organized criminal forgot his own paper!!!) then how do you buy that this genius pulls it off on Christmas day when virtually no ones routine is the same as it is any other time.

Oh, and BTW did Uncle Joe or cousin Sam make it to Christmas dinner? Because I can tell you for certain exactly what family members were with us on Christmas and which ones weren't. I cannot tell with the same certainty if cousin Sam was at that dinner we had at my sister's one Saturday in November. Yet this genius sits in the Ramsey house on the one day of the year where it is almost certain his family or friends will know he wasn't with them.

The killer might have a history of wiretapping personal phones and sending malware emails. Through this method, the killer could know where the Ramseys were going and when. The killer may have a partner that he works with, rather like Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, but more educated. The killers might wait in the house for the parents to go to sleep. This is the one thing that doesn't change for most people, even on Christmas. Eventually the family goes to bed. Then, while one killer commits the crime, the other writes the note. They leave immediately after.

They wouldn't necessarily miss Christmas dinner. From my understanding, JonBenet was missing in the morning and not found until eight hours later. The killers might live many hours away. But, perhaps their families lived several hours closer to the Ramseys. If it took them ten hours to drive and they left immediately after the crime, they could be sharing Christmas dinner and nobody would be the wiser. They might easily say to anyone who questions them, "I had to work," or "I had a term paper that needed finishing."

 

[gramcracker]

Steve Thomas' Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation/kindle location 191

At one point my partner, Detective Ron Gosage, stood in the dark of the former Ramsey house, after we had spent almost a week searching it, and voiced the central question that had baffled everyone. "What the hell happened in this house?"

Venom;

Ah yes, but don't forget this intruder decided the perfect day to break in would be Christmas. Now, we have all just experienced another Christmas. Tell me, do you all follow your normal routines on Christmas Day???

This is an element of the crime that has always bothered me. I realize it is not evidence that would hold up in a court of law, but in the court of common sense?

I am a total creature of habit. Someone could watch me for a few weeks and get a pretty good idea of what I do most days of the week and when I do it.

Christmas? All bets are off. Additionally, how does an intruder even know the Ramseys are in town on 12/25? Or if they are in town, how does he know that they don't have a housefull of houseguests? How would they know that Jonbenet is not, in fact, sharing her own bedroom with a couple of cousins as I often did as a child during the holidays. Yes, it's a big house, but how does an intruder know it isn't a big family?

Thomas thinks like you do

IRMI/kindle location 3065

Before leaving questions about the basement, we locked her into saying that the housekeeper had moved the painting and art supplies down there before the holidays. That made me think how odd it would be for a total stranger, presumably working in the dark, to know where to find the paintbrush that became part of the garrote.

 

[gramcracker]

I forgot, I was also going to say: that's like believing Fuhrman planted the bloody glove when for all he knew OJ was at some big public function with 500 witnesses at the time of the murder. some things are just obvious