The Rope and the knots

[bourne]

But do you think they would take the time to pull the cord all the way through the handle? I can't see it myself, believe me, I am in the this is a murder opinion but this is something that doesn't seem likely to me. Wouldn't they just wrap the cord around her ankles and tie it together if she was unconscious?

I don't do manual stuff on boats and I've not handled these types of ropes before. What do you mean by pulling cord through handle?

 

[*Lash*]

But do you think they would take the time to pull the cord all the way through the handle? I can't see it myself, believe me, I am in the this is a murder opinion but this is something that doesn't seem likely to me. Wouldn't they just wrap the cord around her ankles and tie it together if she was unconscious?

I have the opinion the perps tried to minimize the amount of rope cutting. I think they fashioned the handle in the knot to avoid another cut and whomever did the knotting was doing so out of a routine behavior. No fibers from cutting the rope were found. Kind of odd don't you think? Where did they go? In my opinion, if RZ cared enough to sweep the floor, turn out the lights, close the door, she would have cleaned up the black paint on the carpet, straightened the chair and tidied up everything else. She wouldn't have left blood all over the place or the towel laying in the hallway. I guess in summary, I believe the person(s) that murdered Rebecca tried not to leave any loose ends. I've often wondered if the rope handle was used in some capacity to throw Rebecca over the balcony.

 

[defense101]

I don't do manual stuff on boats and I've not handled these types of ropes before. What do you mean by pulling cord through handle?

Wrapped within the bindings is a yellow plastic tube which encircles one strand of thicker rope, which appears to be a water sport tow rope handle. I see what you mean now, it was wrapped within the bindings not necessarily looped through the tow rope handle:doh:

 

[STS-135]

I searched thoroughly, first online and then in person; and I found only one commercially available tow rope that matches all of the disclosed (!) characteristics of the rope used to hang (or strangle) Rebecca:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=51101&subdeptNum=51115&classNum=51116

A hands-on examination of the above rope, followed by a detailed comparison with high resolution color prints of the available photographs, has me firmly convinced that this rope matches all of the following:

Diameter (7/16). Material. Thread Pattern. Thread Footprint (as evidenced by the impressions the rope left on RZ’s left forearm). Intended Use (inflatables and wakeboards). Strength (two rider / 340 pounds). Yellow sleeve with the instructions described by LE on the end with the handle. Nautical knots on both ends (one such knot is clearly visible on the end of the rope tied to the bed post). And of course also Color (both shade and brightness). I personally don’t know how much rope LE found so I don’t have an opinion on length.

On the plus side (if you too also still strongly believe that it was a murder), the fact that only a single, major, marine supplies store chain sells this particular rope should made it easier to find out when one was purchased by anyone associated with the case. And the bindings on Rebecca’s arms and legs still point towards someone with at least some boating experience.

On the down side, JS had a boat and three kids, so the rope could’ve easily already been in the garage as LE asserted because at a minimum the older kids would’ve no doubt enjoyed inflatables or wakeboards. Also on the down side, the rope is sold with the nautical knots used in the hanging already on both ends.

All the killer (or Rebecca if you happen to believe that it was a suicide) had to do was pass the opposite end of each of the two end-sections of rope through the loop formed by the knots sold with the rope. No knowledge of how to tie those nautical knots was required.

Does anyone here know if the handle was recovered? I don’t recall seeing it in any photographs, search warrants, LE descriptions, or even any media articles, etc., so I’d sincerely appreciate if anyone with any knowledge of whether the handle also played a role could please share such information. Is it possible that it was not disclosed by LE because they were at the time seriously treating it as a homicide investigation? Could the related search warrant and/or other related case documents still be sealed precisely because of it?

Could the handle have been used to knock RZ unconscious? It is unlikely IMHO, because then the rope would’ve had to already be in that particular room or somewhere else in the house between the kitchen door and the room where RZ died. And, on that last note, why does everyone keep calling it the guest room when it was clearly all of the following based on verifiable case information: art room, computer room, sitting room, and guest bedroom. Isn’t thinking of it as only a guest bedroom inadvertently misleading?

 

[screecher]

...


Could the handle have been used to knock RZ unconscious? It is unlikely IMHO, because then the rope would’ve had to already be in that particular room or somewhere else in the house between the kitchen door and the room where RZ died. And, on that last note, why does everyone keep calling it the guest room when it was clearly all of the following based on verifiable case information: art room, computer room, sitting room, and guest bedroom. Isn’t thinking of it as only a guest bedroom inadvertently misleading?

BBM


STS-135:

We could call it the MURDER ROOM. Well, nevermind. We don't know for fact Becky was MURDERED there. Oh, wait. We could call it the HANGING ROOM!

 

[STS-135]

Someone on another thread here, stated that someone must have tied the knots that were in the rope, prior to this event. That would have meant that 'someone' would have had to then, rolled up and placed the rope on the shelf.

How could that have been done with absolutely no dna evidence being present. Don't believe that could have happened.

As for tracing the rope, I think that would have been next to impossible, as I have bought them at boat supply stores, walmart and an rv store. All of the ones I purchased were firm and had too be secured when rolled for storage. I realize there are peobably several brands and types, but they were NOT like the one used in LE's video.

That is another thing. There were no pnotos shown of her hands secured behind her back, or the ropes on the ankles and how they were secured. Do we know if she actually had the ropes in the figure 8 type knots? Just asking.:waitasec:

The nautical knots found on the rope came with the rope when it was purchased.

One of them is clearly visible on the end of the rope tied to the bed post. All the person who tied the rope to the bed had to do was pass the other end of through the loop formed by the knot already on the rope.

Find a West Marine store nearby and go check the rope out yourself too. The knots and loops were already there on both ends. Please consider focusing on the bindings used on her arms and legs instead. Those may still prove to be the killer(s) undoing.

 

[STS-135]

Another question I have about the knots and rope - if, as SDSO alleges, RZ had the skills and practice to bind her arms, legs and neck in this intricate manner, why did she supposedly have to go retrieve a boat tow rope from the garage to do so? If, as some allege, she practiced this type of rope tying as a hobby, why were there no other ropes at the crime scene, in the house, etc? There were no other ropes in the house, or one would assume SDSO would have taken them as evidence.

So how does one become an expert at tying these intricate knots, cutting specific lengths of rope, etc. without ever having practiced it before?

If RZ in fact practiced selfbondage, she might've just not done it at the Coronado house. Keep in mind that she was only there for the summer. Not saying she did; only trying to objectively look at all the possibilities and not rule anything out just because it doesn't fit with my scenario.

 

[STS-135]

Forensically, the knots that were tied could be examined to identify the person who tied those knots about Rebecca's wrists, ankles, bedpost, etc. Knots made may be as singularly specific as a person's fingerprint. I think if investigators compare the knots that were used on Rebecca and the bedpost to knots tied by defendants on their boats or household, a clear pattern would emerge and point directly to one or more of the defendants.

Yes, someone needs to do a true forensic analysis on the sloppily tied rat-tail stopper knots used on Rebecca's arms and legs. But not the well-done knots on either end of the rope, one of which is clearly visible on the photograph of the end tied to the bed post. I've seen, handled and examined this rope. Those knots come with the rope when purchased with the wakeboard handle.

 

[STS-135]

I don't see a good place to put this, but someone brought up the gloves yesterday. Neither the black nitrile/latex glove nor the black gloves seem to appear on these diagrams. Does anyone remember if their position/exact location was posted?

Interesting collage. Interesting indeed. Unfortunately, it seems you posted a thumbnail rather than an actual photo, which kills the resolution; but it's still good enough to point out that in one photograph the white trash bag is on top of the paint tube.

If suicide, Rebecca would've had to paint the sign on the door first, leaving black paint all over the bag as she struggles to get such a long rope out of it because LE found paint on her hands. I don't see any paint on the part of the bag visible in the photo. Was any paint found on the bag by LE? Was any paint found anywhere in the garage?

And, if murder, it would appear to reinforce my theory that DS and AS were both involved. One snapped. The other assisted in a rushed, messy cover-up after he came up running to assist when he heard screaming, only to find DS standing over an unconscious RZ. If AS then agreed to help dispose of the body. DS might’ve known about the rope in the garage and sent for it. She could have easily known it was there because she stayed at the house before, came and went apparently as she pleased, and might’ve even bought it for her son. While AS goes to retrieve the rope DZ is thinking about how to make it look like a suicide, sees the art supplies, and impulsively paints what in her raging mind was a suicide note.

Who else but Dina would've been feeling and thinking that way that evening? Something to the extent of “Yes, Jonah, you told me not to be mad at Rebecca because she saved Max by giving him CPR. Go ahead, see if you can save her now!”

 

[STS-135]

I haven't revisited the evidence files of this case in a long time. But I'm sure someone here can check and see how many gloves (pairs or single glove) were entered into evidence by LE.

Regardless, if what you're saying is true, that the murderer(s) had inadvertently left the gloves they wore at the crime scene, then it should be easy to forensically analyze the glove or gloves for their DNA, and if the DNA/prints match anyone other than Rebecca, then, by god, you have solved the case!

I suppose the point is: Did the Zahau investigators get those gloves you believe Rebecca's murderer(s) left behind from LE? And had the Zahau investigators forensically examined all the evidence (including the gloves) for DNA/prints, etc.?

To me, the fact that the Zahaus didn't have a press conference stating that they found DNA/prints of one of the defendants in the gloves or any of the other evidence (knives, paintbrushes, rope, etc.) means that they found no other person's DNA/prints on those items except for Rebecca's. So I would discount the gloves as being worn by the murderer(s).

I recall seeing the gloves listed on one or more of the search warrant documents; and agree that either or both people present would've likely been wearing gloves.

On an unrelated note, late last night I noticed for the first time what appears to be a white or light-colored, somewhat rectangular object lying on the ground between RZ and the table. I don't know where to find it again at the moment, but I think I was watching a news helicopter video of it, pausing frequently, and then zooming-in as much as possible. Anyone else noticed it too? What is it? Was it listed anywhere?

 

[*Lash*]

The nautical knots found on the rope came with the rope when it was purchased.

One of them is clearly visible on the end of the rope tied to the bed post. All the person who tied the rope to the bed had to do was pass the other end of through the loop formed by the knot already on the rope.

Find a West Marine store nearby and go check the rope out yourself too. The knots and loops were already there on both ends. Please consider focusing on the bindings used on her arms and legs instead. Those may still prove to be the killer(s) undoing.

I am and have focused on the bindings used on Rebecca's arms and legs. In my opinion, the bindings were also in the form of a nautical knot. Not something Rebecca was familiar with. I have viewed a rope similar to the one you're showing almost 2 years ago and had the knowledge the knots came with the rope. I did not save the picture or remember where it was found. IIRC, the handle was a bit different.

 

[*Lash*]

I recall seeing the gloves listed on one or more of the search warrant documents; and agree that either or both people present would've likely been wearing gloves.

On an unrelated note, late last night I noticed for the first time what appears to be a white or light-colored, somewhat rectangular object lying on the ground between RZ and the table. I don't know where to find it again at the moment, but I think I was watching a news helicopter video of it, pausing frequently, and then zooming-in as much as possible. Anyone else noticed it too? What is it? Was it listed anywhere?

I believe it is the candle listed in search warrant 41227, item #16.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf

 

[*Lash*]

Interesting collage. Interesting indeed. Unfortunately, it seems you posted a thumbnail rather than an actual photo, which kills the resolution; but it's still good enough to point out that in one photograph the white trash bag is on top of the paint tube.

If suicide, Rebecca would've had to paint the sign on the door first, leaving black paint all over the bag as she struggles to get such a long rope out of it because LE found paint on her hands. I don't see any paint on the part of the bag visible in the photo. Was any paint found on the bag by LE? Was any paint found anywhere in the garage?

And, if murder, it would appear to reinforce my theory that DS and AS were both involved. One snapped. The other assisted in a rushed, messy cover-up after he came up running to assist when he heard screaming, only to find DS standing over an unconscious RZ. If AS then agreed to help dispose of the body. DS might’ve known about the rope in the garage and sent for it. She could have easily known it was there because she stayed at the house before, came and went apparently as she pleased, and might’ve even bought it for her son. While AS goes to retrieve the rope DZ is thinking about how to make it look like a suicide, sees the art supplies, and impulsively paints what in her raging mind was a suicide note.

Who else but Dina would've been feeling and thinking that way that evening? Something to the extent of “Yes, Jonah, you told me not to be mad at Rebecca because she saved Max by giving him CPR. Go ahead, see if you can save her now!”

BBM - Was the rope inside the trash bag? IIRC, there was an empty dust pattern left on a garage shelf from where the rope was allegedly retrieved. Why would Rebecca need a trash bag or was the rope stored in the trash bag?

You can find the images Time provided on the SDSO website.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

 

[Carioca]

For reference, Kevlar rope used for towing tubes. Image from 22 months ago..
The ends were never a question. The public never saw how the noose was tied as was always under the shirt in all images. The question has always been in the ankle and wrist bindings.

 

[time]

Pic of rope tied around the bedframe through a loop:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8714.jpg

 

[*Lash*]

For reference, Kevlar rope used for towing tubes. Image from 22 months ago..
The ends were never a question. The public never saw how the noose was tied as was always under the shirt in all images. The question has always been in the ankle and wrist bindings.

Thank you Carioca. This is exactly the pic I was referring to.

 

[STS-135]

I am and have focused on the bindings used on Rebecca's arms and legs. In my opinion, the bindings were also in the form of a nautical knot. Not something Rebecca was familiar with. I have viewed a rope similar to the one you're showing almost 2 years ago and had the knowledge the knots came with the rope. I did not save the picture or remember where it was found. IIRC, the handle was a bit different.

Good to know. Although I usually quote the post that triggered my need to reply with a finding, scenario or opinion, my comments/questions have for the most part been addressed - or meant for - readers at large. I can see, however, why you might've thought that it was intended for you; and will try to be more careful on how my messages are worded in the future to avoid stepping on any more toes. I said in the future...

 

[*Lash*]

Good to know. Although I usually quote the post that triggered my need to reply with a finding, scenario or opinion, my comments/questions have for the most part been addressed - or meant for - readers at large. I can see, however, why you might've thought that it was intended for you; and will try to be more careful on how my messages are worded in the future to avoid stepping on any more toes. I said in the future...

I'm sorry, I didn't interpret your post as being directed towards me at all. I was just responding with my opinion to your thoughts. No toes were stepped on. I apologize if it appeared that way!

eace:

 

[STS-135]

I'm sorry, I didn't interpret your post as being directed towards me at all. I was just responding with my opinion to your thoughts. No toes were stepped on. I apologize if it appeared that way!

eace:

Cute! Yes, peace indeed...

Likewise, I apologize to you and all - once and forever - for seemingly sometimes wasting your time with comments, findings, observations and/or questions which you have all already discussed/resolved. But, please keep in mind at all times that those of us new or just returning to this case after two years are going to need a great deal of help catching up. You don't seriously expect us to first review or remember thousands of posts spread across dozens of threads over two years, do you?!...

 

[*Lash*]

Cute! Yes, peace indeed...

Likewise, I apologize to you and all - once and forever - for seemingly sometimes wasting your time with comments, findings, observations and/or questions which you have all already discussed/resolved. But, please keep in mind at all times that those of us new or just returning to this case after two years are going to need a great deal of help catching up. You don't seriously expect us to first review or remember thousands of posts spread across dozens of threads over two years, do you?!...

Of course you should remember it all...it is only 2 years of info...:floorlaugh: just teasing.

You made a good point keeping in mind returning posters and new posters might need some help catching up.