The Roy Kronk Connection- Opening Statements-Kronk takes the stand 2011.06.28

[LinasK]

How did Kronk "get" Caylee? From where?

If 'we'll never know' then Baez's opening was a lie, because to slam Kronk, to make it believable, he should have said, 'Kronk stole Caylee's body from x place.'

That's the biggest hole in Baez's weak sauce Kronk opening.

Next thing you know, Baez will be claiming RK carjacked Casey's car...:loser:

 

[Mamabear1963]

Somebody posted on one of the sidebar threads that this book:

http://www.jgrisham.com/the-innocent-man/

is what JB is referring to.

I bought the Kindle Edition and am about 1/2 way through.

The main character is being nailed with a brutal murder. The sheriffs and prosecutor are desperate to solve 2 murders and they just take the easy way.


The killer is someone that the prosecution uses as a witness but is never investigated even though at the time of trial he is in prison.

Interesting that JB is pushing RK's character...AND...CM's comment to the media that this case the product of an over zealous prosecutor's imagination.

So far I don't feel that JA should be compared at ALL with the prosecutor in the book...

IMO, JB should have spent more time with the discovery or trying to get ICA to take a plea deal...instead of reading this book.

There was one scene that just so reminded me of JB in the arguments...the only difference is that IMO, KC is guilty...so there is nothing to save her from except herself.

 

[Mamabear1963]

Next thing you know, Baez will be claiming RK carjacked Casey's car...:loser:

Don't give JB any ideas!!!

 

[DawnTCB]

What the hell? In his interviews with OCSO after finding Caylee he never mentions poking around in his original spot in addition (prior to) to the ultimate finding spot. Had he totally written-off his original suspicious thing and just decided to pee and look someplace else? Why wouldn't he explain this if this is what really happened? Or did he actually go to the original spot and find nothing and then start searching in other places?

Do you think he was lying to OCSO about the full details of what he had been doing in those woods in his efforts to search?

Well, here's where I am now.

MR gets a tip in August. This tip involves pavers, a fallen tree, and a bag. He accidentally on purpose gets his coworkers to the spot, and he starts chatting up the guys about this being a great place to hide a body. He goes and takes a look and immediately sees a skull. I think he thought he was in the right spot, because he saw the pavers/tree/bag - this must be it.

Then comes the dead snake, and I think MR did truly get scared. This is more than he bargained for. So he drops it for now and calls from home. Now I think when he called, he thought his tip would result in a flood of LE, searchers and media, which is why by his own account he is "surprised" not to see it on the news. Unfortunately, his tip was one of thousands and was answered by a lone female officer in the dark of night. So he tries again.

When RC comes, he is not prepared for swamp searching either. He is wearing shorts, doesn't want to be there, and is equally scared of rattlesnakes. He was no doubt insulted by MR's insistence that he get a closer and closer look at this bag while MR stayed safely up on the right-of-way. Now I think RC *did* check out what MR saw. MR says he knows what he saw was a skull, even going so far as to say it might have been the "novelty store kind". There is no way RC, two days later - two dry days - could have been six feet away from a skull (real or novelty) that MR could identify from 25 feet away as "100% a skull" and not seen it - if it was there.

When the second officer arrives, also not dressed for swamp prospecting, MR does not encourage her to look at the bag, but he does keep repeating "She said she was close", "She told them she was close" and kind of freaking her out. I think by this point he now knows that the "right spot" was not right because RC was just six feet away and saw nothing but lawn trash. But he knows this is the right area... so he kind of tries to talk the second officer into agreeing that this would be a good spot for a body, and she does. But she doesn't call in the troops. And MR cannot think of a good reason for him to be down there nosing around when he doesn't have actual business there, so he has to give up for a while. And I think he was angry, like he says. He figured all he needed to do was get LE to the right area and they would do the work, but after all these calls he knows he is going to have to actually find something before anyone is going to do anything about it, and since he also knows the remains are there, he is pretty peeved that LE is not showing any sense of urgency.

We know he was off this route in September and October. In November he claims he drove on by. This might be true, but I think it is more likely that he searched again, and then informed the daisy chain coordinator that the directions were wrong because he didn't find anything. We can assume this was around November 11-12, and what do you know, the PIs get a tip on (or before) November 15th that involves this same stretch of ground, pavers, a fallen tree, and a bag. DC said he was "already planning" to check out this area on that day from a tip they got earlier. (Side note: I have wondered if they were going to say that the tip they were checking out was the MR's tip to the Crimeline... and maybe this was the beauty of the daisy chain plan which didn't work. If they could get someone to call an anonymous tip in, (1) if luck was with them, LE would follow up and find the remains, but if not, they could (2) legitimately send the PIs to follow up because LE was so incompetent, and when the PIs were successful, it would be on a lead that LE had written off. Something to consider.)

So they poke around and cut open bags and check out every fallen tree with something white around it and carefully inspect pavers and mysteriously take a long time digging with a trowel next to someone's house (ok that is way off topic but I still want to know what that was all about :waitasec. But they also find nothing and have to tell the daisy chain coordinator it's still a no-go.

But in December, MR is back on the case. And for whatever reason, maybe he has been pondering this (since I highly doubt he got additional instructions at this point) but he goes to see if there is another set of pavers/fallen tree/bag. And there is.

Now, this is not a huge area. And it is filled with brush and debris, and was at various times at various water levels and populations of snakes. So it is easy to say he is sure he was seeing the same bag but not sure he was in the same place, and who can prove him wrong?

FWIW, I am about 90% sure MR and the PIs were given the same wrong tip and were in the same wrong spot. But now what? If no one admits the tip originated from ICA (either overheard, deliberately passed along by the DT, or by someone - maybe LA? - figuring out her coded messages), then we have something very disturbing... a skull and remains that were in one spot (when MR 100% saw them in August), disappeared (when PIs were looking in November), and showed up somewhere else down the way in December. Which actually fits with the ridiculous DT theory that MR had custody of the remains and planted them while ICA was in jail. Sort of fits, I guess.

My hope is that it was LA who was the daisy chain coordinator. I hope we find somehow that he got a note that told him the tip and he tried to get his MR to find them but he failed, then told his mom who was devastated to hear Caylee was actually dead, did her "silent" interview, and then put her PIs right on getting her out of the woods. And I hope LA intended to give Caylee a proper burial as opposed to the other alternative. If he coordinated this, I think he had good intentions, because he apparently never told MR to move or dispose of the remains. And I most of all hope they ask him about it. I've lost too much sleep to "never find out."

 

[allycat1208]

On some tv show recently, I heard LP state that a worker in the jail that KC was in, was RK's girlfriend and told RK where the remains were after she heard this stated by KC to JB? Did anyone hear this? This is hard to believe although possible. I did not hear everything..anyone know about this? Was it said that law enforcement was involved in listening in with a wiretap through RK's girlfriend to conversations between KC and JB?

 

[LinasK]

Well, here's where I am now.

MR gets a tip in August. This tip involves pavers, a fallen tree, and a bag. He accidentally on purpose gets his coworkers to the spot, and he starts chatting up the guys about this being a great place to hide a body. He goes and takes a look and immediately sees a skull. I think he thought he was in the right spot, because he saw the pavers/tree/bag - this must be it.

Then comes the dead snake, and I think MR did truly get scared. This is more than he bargained for. So he drops it for now and calls from home. Now I think when he called, he thought his tip would result in a flood of LE, searchers and media, which is why by his own account he is "surprised" not to see it on the news. Unfortunately, his tip was one of thousands and was answered by a lone female officer in the dark of night. So he tries again.

When RC comes, he is not prepared for swamp searching either. He is wearing shorts, doesn't want to be there, and is equally scared of rattlesnakes. He was no doubt insulted by MR's insistence that he get a closer and closer look at this bag while MR stayed safely up on the right-of-way. Now I think RC *did* check out what MR saw. MR says he knows what he saw was a skull, even going so far as to say it might have been the "novelty store kind". There is no way RC, two days later - two dry days - could have been six feet away from a skull (real or novelty) that MR could identify from 25 feet away as "100% a skull" and not seen it - if it was there.

When the second officer arrives, also not dressed for swamp prospecting, MR does not encourage her to look at the bag, but he does keep repeating "She said she was close", "She told them she was close" and kind of freaking her out. I think by this point he now knows that the "right spot" was not right because RC was just six feet away and saw nothing but lawn trash. But he knows this is the right area... so he kind of tries to talk the second officer into agreeing that this would be a good spot for a body, and she does. But she doesn't call in the troops. And MR cannot think of a good reason for him to be down there nosing around when he doesn't have actual business there, so he has to give up for a while. And I think he was angry, like he says. He figured all he needed to do was get LE to the right area and they would do the work, but after all these calls he knows he is going to have to actually find something before anyone is going to do anything about it, and since he also knows the remains are there, he is pretty peeved that LE is not showing any sense of urgency.

We know he was off this route in September and October. In November he claims he drove on by. This might be true, but I think it is more likely that he searched again, and then informed the daisy chain coordinator that the directions were wrong because he didn't find anything. We can assume this was around November 11-12, and what do you know, the PIs get a tip on (or before) November 15th that involves this same stretch of ground, pavers, a fallen tree, and a bag. DC said he was "already planning" to check out this area on that day from a tip they got earlier. (Side note: I have wondered if they were going to say that the tip they were checking out was the MR's tip to the Crimeline... and maybe this was the beauty of the daisy chain plan which didn't work. If they could get someone to call an anonymous tip in, (1) if luck was with them, LE would follow up and find the remains, but if not, they could (2) legitimately send the PIs to follow up because LE was so incompetent, and when the PIs were successful, it would be on a lead that LE had written off. Something to consider.)

So they poke around and cut open bags and check out every fallen tree with something white around it and carefully inspect pavers and mysteriously take a long time digging with a trowel next to someone's house (ok that is way off topic but I still want to know what that was all about :waitasec. But they also find nothing and have to tell the daisy chain coordinator it's still a no-go.

But in December, MR is back on the case. And for whatever reason, maybe he has been pondering this (since I highly doubt he got additional instructions at this point) but he goes to see if there is another set of pavers/fallen tree/bag. And there is.

Now, this is not a huge area. And it is filled with brush and debris, and was at various times at various water levels and populations of snakes. So it is easy to say he is sure he was seeing the same bag but not sure he was in the same place, and who can prove him wrong?

FWIW, I am about 90% sure MR and the PIs were given the same wrong tip and were in the same wrong spot. But now what? If no one admits the tip originated from ICA (either overheard, deliberately passed along by the DT, or by someone - maybe LA? - figuring out her coded messages), then we have something very disturbing... a skull and remains that were in one spot (when MR 100% saw them in August), disappeared (when PIs were looking in November), and showed up somewhere else down the way in December. Which actually fits with the ridiculous DT theory that MR had custody of the remains and planted them while ICA was in jail. Sort of fits, I guess.

My hope is that it was LA who was the daisy chain coordinator. I hope we find somehow that he got a note that told him the tip and he tried to get his MR to find them but he failed, then told his mom who was devastated to hear Caylee was actually dead, did her "silent" interview, and then put her PIs right on getting her out of the woods. And I hope LA intended to give Caylee a proper burial as opposed to the other alternative. If he coordinated this, I think he had good intentions, because he apparently never told MR to move or dispose of the remains. And I most of all hope they ask him about it. I've lost too much sleep to "never find out."

:hand::snooty:Sorry, not buying it! 1), the plant roots growing through Caylee's remains indicates that she was lying there for months! This is solid forensic evidence. 2), if Officer Cain hadn't blown Roy Kronk off, Caylee would have been discovered in August. 3) Roy had no reason (or place that reeked of decomp.) to keep her hidden for all those months and then try to claim a reward he wasn't even eligible for since he was a county worker and she was dead??? 4)Caylee's remains couldn't be found between Aug. and Dec. because the area was under water- Tim Miller of TES can testify to that!
Also, what's George's connection to Roy Kronk? What does George gain by not reporting Caylee dead and giving her to Roy Kronk? Roy Kronk never had possession of the Pontiac Sunfire- which does have evidence of decomp. in it.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Well, here's where I am now.

MR gets a tip in August. This tip involves pavers, a fallen tree, and a bag. He accidentally on purpose gets his coworkers to the spot, and he starts chatting up the guys about this being a great place to hide a body. He goes and takes a look and immediately sees a skull. I think he thought he was in the right spot, because he saw the pavers/tree/bag - this must be it.

Ok, I'll work with your theory(s) and we can see if there are any logic flaws. Kronk gets a hot tip on where the body is located from a "daisy chain" in August. The tipster says the body is by a fallen tree with pavers there. He ends up at that area with his coworkers and calls them over to a spot which matches the tipster's description. He truly thinks the body is there or very close. He truly wants his buddies to look with him and maybe look around the immediate surrounding area if his "skull" really isn't a skull. He anticipates that maybe within a few minutes this "team" really will find Caylee...

We know he was off this route in September and October. In November he claims he drove on by. This might be true, but I think it is more likely that he searched again, and then informed the daisy chain coordinator that the directions were wrong because he didn't find anything.

I don't remember RK saying he rolled past in November. Refresh me please....

FWIW, I am about 90% sure MR and the PIs were given the same wrong tip and were in the same wrong spot. But now what? If no one admits the tip originated from ICA (either overheard, deliberately passed along by the DT, or by someone - maybe LA? - figuring out her coded messages),

Lee is the tipster?

My hope is that it was LA who was the daisy chain coordinator. I hope we find somehow that he got a note that told him the tip and he tried to get his MR to find them but he failed, then told his mom who was devastated to hear Caylee was actually dead, did her "silent" interview, and then put her PIs right on getting her out of the woods. And I hope LA intended to give Caylee a proper burial as opposed to the other alternative. If he coordinated this, I think he had good intentions, because he apparently never told MR to move or dispose of the remains. And I most of all hope they ask him about it. I've lost too much sleep to "never find out."

Lee is buddies with his meter reader? They are close enough that Lee can ask Roy to go get Caylee out of the swamp so that his sister won't spend life in jail? Roy would do this for Lee? So Lee assigns Roy to go get Caylee out of the swamp so that Casey doesn't get convicted. But then why does Roy suddenly summon his coworkers to help him poke around in the weeds? How is he going to convince them to not call the police when they all find the body together? I'm not connecting these dots.

I mean, how can Roy be some kind of "agent" to protect Casey when he freely brings his group of coworkers into the "daisy chain"?

If the whole original function of the daisy chain was to hide Caylee to protect Casey then each person who "adds a daisy" to the chain must be absolutely certain that that daisy is willing and able to break the law and carry out what is necessary with full trust. Or are you ready to say that Roy took the tip (from Lee?) but was intending to break the chain by going to the police instead of hiding Caylee? Or are you saying that Lee wanted Caylee found and reported to the police?

 

[Hot Dogs]

Caylee's remains couldn't be found between Aug. and Dec. because the area was under water- Tim Miller of TES can testify to that!

FWIW, water does not stop the authorities from finding bodies. They get them from rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. Knee deep water in a small swampy area a few blocks from the house should have been no problem at all.

It's really quite ridiculous and unfortunate that Caylee wasn't found until December. She wasn't even buried.

 

[LinasK]

FWIW, water does not stop the authorities from finding bodies. They get them from rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. Knee deep water in a small swampy area a few blocks from the house should have been no problem at all.

It's really quite ridiculous and unfortunate that Caylee wasn't found until December. She wasn't even buried.

Yeah, but I've heard Tim say he was afraid that an SUV or horse would've trampled Caylee's remains, and it was very murky and filled with snakes and such. I put the blame squarely on Officer Cain's shoulders that Caylee wasn't discovered in August.

 

[DawnTCB]

First of all, thanks for working with me! It feels better to not be the only one.

I don't remember RK saying he rolled past in November. Refresh me please....

Second, I went to find the quote and grabbed the wrong interview and found this one on accident.

In it I saw something I didn't remember seeing before.

On page 19 about line 13 RK says this:
So, when I got back, I used, and if you remember the 911 calls I gave, I gave almost the lat/long position of where the object was that I saw. I described it as best as I possibly could. So I not only gave them a visual reference of where to look; I gave myself a visual reference of where to look.

I am not sure what it means to give "almost" the lat/long position, but did he actually do this? Since he certainly did not describe it as best as he possibly could.

 

[DawnTCB]

I don't remember RK saying he rolled past in November. Refresh me please....

Ok here's my second try. The interview here with EE on page 12 line 22 he is asked why so long of a delay between August and December.

RK: Well, um honestly I had, uh, my life went on, okay? I had the route again in November and I never even, other than go, driving down to read the meter at the school... you know I just drove right on back and went on about my day.

 

[DawnTCB]

I'm going to answer your questions out of order to make my response less of a novel.

Or are you saying that Lee wanted Caylee found and reported to the police?

Yes. Today I was re-watching the March 2011 hearings where JB is trying to say LA was an agent of LE or whatever. I think it is abundantly clear that Lee wanted his sister to be innocent, but more than that, he was :banghead: frustrated at her, and the red tape he had to go through to get time alone with her to force her to talk so he could get the information he needed for the bigger goal... he wanted Caylee home, preferably alive. I think prior to all this he <---at his sister most of the time, knowing she's lying but...

I think he eventually got word from ICA. Either he figured out some mysterious clues, or he got a note, or a map or something. All she would have to do is send him a drawing even, no words needed. He's already told her he will keep it to himself. Now, she might have assumed he would somehow use this information to move the remains and save her. I think she did assume this, thus her complete flip out when the remains were found right where she left them. Oh well.

In my mind her note/map/hints were cryptic enough that JB let them through his scanning. It is possible, I suppose, that she even passed LA something very cryptic on July 16. In either case, I don't think he had any idea what it meant at first. Then I think he figured it out.

Now the LA--> MR connection is the weakest link, no doubt about it. I just said I hoped it was the one that was true, so no attorney/client privilege issues can come up.

Lee is buddies with his meter reader?

No, I sure hope not. We would have heard by now, I would think. I think there has to be at least one person in between. Someone LA told about ICA's message and what he thought it meant who said, wow, guess what, I know a guy who used to be a bounty hunter, wonder if he could look for you?

So Lee assigns Roy to go get Caylee out of the swamp so that Casey doesn't get convicted.

No. Not to get Caylee out of the swamp at all. Just to be the go between because if LA finds her, he could be the next one behind bars. And if he points to ICA's message, she is heading to death row.

But then why does Roy suddenly summon his coworkers to help him poke around in the weeds?

Roy needs witnesses. His past is too shady to do otherwise. And anyway, I think they just wanted him to report it, not really poke around and actually stand there by the skull until LE arrived. Report it, and a swarm of LE and searchers will show up and Caylee is out of the woods, so to speak. But it didn't work out like that.

Now MR's interview was 1/6/09. On 1/14/09 it was reported that LA was seeking criminal immunity. I don't know, if it went down like what I just wrote, if LA would have done anything illegal. IF he was an agent of law enforcement and pursued getting ICA to tell him something without her attorney present... maybe... but barring that, if she just sent him a map, and he had a bounty hunter and some PI's check it out and flushed that map down the toilet, is that criminal? Impeding an investigation? That would be hard to prove if he was actively trying to get someone to find her. :waitasec:

 

[DawnTCB]

Last night I watch PI Jim Hoover's interview for the ZG case. He was reluctant to talk about the place they were searching at first but eventually warms up and is pretty quick to name LA as the person he thinks DC was talking to on the phone. I really didn't recall him being so sure about it.

That still doesn't help us with who gave the MR a tip. If anyone.

JH's interview is here. I'd skip over part 1 at least where he is just trying not to tell them who he worked for and what he has been doing for 47 years, although it is kinda humorous.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

I do believe he found her more than once. The fact that they didn't take him seriously the first time he called it in might have encouraged a "relocation", HOWEVER, forensics show (from plant growth entertwining with remains) that she was right where they recovered her for a long long long time (ie since the day KC left her there...the same spot she buried her pets).

 

[treeseeker]

I'd like to know if RK carried a scanner. They occasionally pick up cell phones.

 

[Anais]

Yeah, but I've heard Tim say he was afraid that an SUV or horse would've trampled Caylee's remains, and it was very murky and filled with snakes and such. I put the blame squarely on Officer Cain's shoulders that Caylee wasn't discovered in August.

It had more to do with the possibility of disturbing or destroying possible forensic evidence and her remains! Tim and TES are ultimate in searching for missing and always professional with many years experience!

 

[shell610]

I believe the LE did not check the area well when they first responded. It happens, I live in the area of the Tri State Crematory http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1828385.stm it had been reported that a body was seen there months before and it was assessed obviously not checked well and later they found 139 bodies laying around the grounds never cremated! Granted, we didn't have a 2 year old missing at that time but it was NOT checked as it should have been even thought there was a report months prior to the actual discovery. From what I have been told these bodies were just laying out in the open strewn across the property.

So it does happen that reports go basically ignored, poorly investigated even though reported by an eye witness, even reports of a dead body.

 

[Silkprint]

You would think her mother, Casey Anthony, would be livid that her defense team would even suggest her daughters body being dragged around like that wouldn't you ?

The whole defense OP could have been comical and the plot of a silly movie with the hiding the body and all IF it wasn't for the fact ...
That he is talking about the body of a little girl that laid alone in the woods for months .

 

[rossva]

The area was "under" water for a few weeks at the end of August - not between August and December.

4)Caylee's remains couldn't be found between Aug. and Dec. because the area was under water- Tim Miller of TES can testify to that!

 

[Hot Dogs]

Roy needs witnesses. His past is too shady to do otherwise. And anyway, I think they just wanted him to report it, not really poke around and actually stand there by the skull until LE arrived. Report it, and a swarm of LE and searchers will show up and Caylee is out of the woods, so to speak. But it didn't work out like that.

Ok, now pretend that there wasn't a dead rattlesnake which scared the guys off. He gets them to come over and look at his skull find. They see that it obviously isn't a skull (as you say) and RK has to agree. Maybe they poke around a little bit further but they don't find anything because they are far from the actual remains (as you say). At that point, there is nothing for RK to call in to OCSO and no good reason for the guys to recommend that he call either.

What would Kronk do at that point (according to your theory)?