The Roy Kronk Connection- Opening Statements-Kronk takes the stand 2011.06.28

[Just Jayla]

The hurricane had no bearing on Kronk's personal observations in mid-August. It came later.

According to him, he did not think it was a novelty skull. He only offered that as a possible alternative but not one that he himself believed. If he did think that it was a novelty skull then he lied to OCSO. He told them that he had 99.999% certainty that it was a genuine human skull.

From his interview on 01/06/09. Looks like he did believe it to be a human skull, but not sure if it was a real human skull. This was his final interview, IIRC. Also, not debating with you, just posting for clarification for those who want to know:

EE: So on a scale of one to ten, and let's even use the percentage. What was the
4 percentage of belief that you had that that was a human skull there? If you had
5 to go back to when you first saw it, what percentage are we at?
6 RK: A hundred percent.
7 EE: A hundred percent? So you're a hundred percent sure on August, in August, that
8 that's maybe the baby?
9 RK: Well I, yeah (affirmative), I'm not saying, I, uh, like I said in my statement, okay, I
10 saw what looked to me, and I, in my mind said that is a human skull. Okay,
11 whether, and uh, it was in a debris pile. I've said that.
12 EE: Who it was regardless, (unintelligible).
13 RK: Well whether it was a baby, whether it was something that came out of some,
14 you know, novelty shop, maybe it was trash, I'm just telling you what it looked
15 like. It, it (unintelligible)....


and

RK: You know, I just drove right on back and, and went on about my day. I mean you
2 know, it was always in the back of my mind because those things like that always
3 stay in the back of your mind. But honestly, as they shifted to the airport, and
4 with all their technology, and their cellular pings, and this and that, and this and
5 that, I was like, hey, okay, well you know, maybe it was just a novelty. Or maybe
6 it was something else. You know, I, uh, to my mind it said it was a skull.

 

[Starfish]

I couldn't help but wonder as I listened to the CSI people testify regarding how difficult it was to find & see Caylee's skull at the crime scene (and they were told where it was), and also that it was partially buried, how in the heck did RK ever find it? It's obvious from the fact that it was partially buried that RK did not kick the bag or poke it with his stick & it came rolling out...that cannot be true considering how it was found.

Also am very unclear as to whether the final location where RK found the remains was the same location he was at when he made the first & second calls to LE.

Thoughts?

TIA!

 

[Steely Dan]

I couldn't help but wonder as I listened to the CSI people testify regarding how difficult it was to find & see Caylee's skull at the crime scene (and they were told where it was), and also that it was partially buried, how in the heck did RK ever find it? It's obvious from the fact that it was partially buried that RK did not kick the bag or poke it with his stick & it came rolling out...that cannot be true considering how it was found.

Also am very unclear as to whether the final location where RK found the remains was the same location he was at when he made the first & second calls to LE.

Thoughts?

TIA!

It wouldn't surprise me if the tropical storm blew that bag around. JMO

 

[eleni777]

It wouldn't surprise me if the tropical storm blew that bag around. JMO

I live in Central Florida, there was a lot of rain/flooding associated with Tropical Storm Faye...NOT a lot of wind. The flooding was so bad that the schools were closed for a week. My job was also closed for the week. For those of you that don't live down here, the area is naturally SWAMPY, low lying areas flood quickly with heavy down pours.

The water movement and animal activity are probably the reason the bag and contents were disbursed.

 

[ladylurker]

If Casey had been working as a professional escort we would know about that already. People would have come forward and/or LE would have found evidence on her cell and computer records.

The escort services were looked at on the computer, in between searches for employment as a security guard, and home improvemnent sites. So we can be sure the defense will be bringing those searches up when they lay out their case.

Kronk's son said that he was not sure when his dad called and talked about finding the body. He said it was in November OR December. That is not very credible imo, besides the fact they were estranged for 18 years, He may have been very vindictive in his testimony.

But the main point is the problem people seem to have with him calling 911 so many times. I guess they have never been in that same position, of trying to pass along tips or info like that, and having to make those calls over and over. In my experience, that is exactly how it works.

I worked in the public school system for 20 yrs, and several times I had info that I wanted to pass on to CPS or LE. It NEVER took just one call to get anything done. I found myself doing the exact same thing he did whenj I once tried to report a child being severely neglected. I would call and make a report, wait for them to make a visit, and then find out they drove out there, spoke to one family member at the door, then turned around and left, never even examining or speaking to the child. I called again, twice that week.

Then, a month later, I called again with a new complaint, about some new bruises. Again, nothing was done. It took 4 months and several calls for anything to happen. So I have no hinky feelings about Kronk having to call so many times.

bbm. i think this is an extremely helpful post w/very good points. this makes lots of sense to me.

 

[DawnTCB]

But the main point is the problem people seem to have with him calling 911 so many times. I guess they have never been in that same position, of trying to pass along tips or info like that, and having to make those calls over and over. In my experience, that is exactly how it works.

I would say I agree with this point. I agree that it is often difficult to get something accomplished when there is bureaucracy involved.

I would also say that the second, third, and fourth (Crimeline) calls in August do not bother me at all. They are just like you say, in my mind. Attempts to jump through the hoops required.

My biggest hinky feeling comes from the first call. I think there is considerable evidence to show he knew the body was there prior to his visit with his coworkers 8/11/08. Not that he murdered Caylee, and not that he touched any portion of the remains. Just knew it before he went there for the "first" time.

Almost all of the evidence for that is already in this thread but in general,I think his calls are suspicious because in his first call he (a) is vague, (b) never mentions a skull, (c) mentions several times that it might be nothing, (d) gives terrible directions, (e) never leaves a name or number and never requests a call back and oh, did I mention he was incredibly vague? But after this incredibly-vague-probably-not-anything-sorry-if-I-am-wasting-your-time call, he is "surprised" to not see it on the news by the next day (according to OCSO interview) and "surprised" not to get a call back from LE (according to GMA interview). Out of hundreds of tips, he assumes his "probably nothing" tip is going to get looked at in less than 24 hours, and he clearly thinks it is not "nothing" if he is surprised to not see it on the news.

Then it troubles me the varying accounts between MR and his coworkers of the actual supposed sighting... One coworker having no recollection of MR saying anything, one remembering MR saying he saw a bag and then saying he saw a skull in two different locations, and MR himself saying they both looked right at what he saw and thought he was crazy. :waitasec: It troubles me that on his first visit to an area filled with trash and debris, he was able to (within seconds) find something that "doesn't look like it should be there". I mean, if he had been going there for years and suddenly saw some new bags that weren't there last month, maybe that would make sense. But he is very clear this was his first visit there ever. How does he know what should be there and what should not be?

Then you have RC showing YM where MR was when he called them in - not at the crime scene. And MR's varying descriptions of the bag as gray, silver, metallic, vinyl, and "like a pool cover". None, of which, BTW, matches the actual black garbage bags nor the cream laundry bag. And then the "round white thing" which he picked out as a skull (real or at the very least novelty) from 25 feet away but by MR's own words neither of his coworkers could see, and RC could not see when he was 4-6 feet away. I understand people are upset with RC for not wanting to "get his feet wet" but I do not believe that a skull MR could see from 25 feet away - which he could identify as "100% a skull" - could not be identified from 4-6 feet away.

All of these things make me feel that MR knew the body was in that wooded area - near a fallen tree, near a white board, in a bag - but he didn't know precisely where. And he thought he would not need to necessarily actually find it if he could just get LE to take him seriously.

And after reading all the interviews again, I am now feeling more and more that he tried again on November 11th and was unsuccessful, spurring the "psychic" calling the PIs out on November 15th. But, that's just a feeling. He's certainly made it clear that he just drove on by in November.

I sure wish we could read the DT deposition. I found some quotes from it on an InSession blog saying they had gotten a transcript, but I don't find the whole thing. Wonder if we will ever get to see that.

 

[DawnTCB]

Another weird thing.

Just reading this deposition again...
MR - CORPORAL MIKE RUGGIERO
RH - SERGEANT ROB HARDIMAN
RK - ROY KRONK


MR: All right. Let me ask you, prior to the deputy's arrival on the 13th, when you met with the deputy, this deputy.
RK Yeah.
MR Had you went into the wooded area to verify the items you had observed were still there?
RK No. It was way back in there and it was water and it was swampy and we had found a dead rattlesnake there. So, I...
MR So you didn't walk back there?
RK No.
MR Prior to the deputy getting there?
RK No.
MR No, okay. I think you answered this, but I will go ahead and ask it anyway. What was your assessment of the performance of the responding deputy on the?
RK I think I pretty much covered that.
MR Okay.
RH Let me backtrack just a second, just so we can clarify what you just said. On the 13th, you didn't walk back in the woods to check to see if the bag was still there?
RK Well, no, because, when you got down to that, you know, that little, uh, shoulder, or whatever you want to call it.
RH Uh-huh (agreement).
RK That's pretty much where the water started.
RH Okay.
RK Okay? Because.
RH Well, let me go back just a little bit further.
RK Uh-huh (agreement).
RH You said that they, the skull was not as visible on the 13th as it was on the 11th?
RK No, it wasn't, no. No.
RH So you did see it on the 13th?
RK Yeah, I did. I saw the white object in basically the same area that I saw before.
RH Okay. How did you see the white object on the 13th?
RK Because my eye was already trained to that area for what I'd seen from two days before.
RH Could you see it from the road or?
MR From where you were?
RH From the trail?
RK No, you have to be standing right on the wood line to see it.
RH Right.

and this:
MR Okay. On December 11th, were the items you saw in the wooded area the same items you previously observed in August when you called the sheriffs office?
RK I can't honestly answer that.
MR You can't say?
RK I can't say. I know that I saw on August 11th, which, uh, appeared to me to be a human skull.Okay? I know that on December 11th, I found a human skull. I can't.. .1 didn't sit there and watch it for five months so I can not, in all honesty.

 

[ladybugplus]

I know this is would of, should of, could of thing but it just irks me that had this been handled right the ME Dr G could have found the cause of death
and the Prosecution would have a even stronger case. I remember
reading this in 08 and just found it again.
http://www.wesh.com/news/18469488/detail.html

 

[Baznme]

Although I see what you mean, that was then, this is now. Can't change it. They have what they have to work with and that's it. Going back to what could have been.......is counter productive IMO.

 

[BritsKate]

I agree too mistakes were obviously made but Dr. G also testified on redirect that Caylee would have been skeletonized by August iirc. I don't believe finding her remains earlier could have assisted in terms of determining the manner of homicide. JMO

 

[Tuffy]

Caylee would have been decomposed within 2 weeks of dying. She was allegedly killed in June, so there would have been only skeletal remains by July.

That doesn't excuse the cop that didn't do his job in August, but I don't believe that caused the state to miss out on evidence that could have come from an autopsy.

I am just glad that Mr. Kronk was persistent, and didn't give up after that first call. I get really upset by the Kronk-bashing, and suspicions thrown toward him. He did everything he could to do right by Caylee. He repeatedly called the authorities, and didn't try to disturb the evidence himself. I can only imagine (disturbing the plant growth that proved how long the remains were there) what would have been ruined if he had tried to move it, or pick things up to take to the police.

 

[Insomnia Momma]

It's my opinion that ICA looked up decomposition during her searches and found out how fast Caylee would be a skeleton. IMO ICA KNEW that by the time July 15 rolled around Caylee was most likely already fully skeletonized and she didn't have much to worry about, tiny bones are harder to find than even a tiny body. That's why I believed ICA knew exactly how many days it had been, she wasn't keeping track for any other reason than to count how long before Caylee was just bones. I don't know why I've always thought that but I have. Her search on death very well could have told her that.

ICA obviously had other reasons she didn't want Caylee found but I think this was a big reason for her going into hiding. I also think she thought that after a while she would come back home and go with the kidnapping story, it just wasn't time yet when CA forced it.

Kronk did no wrong and I thought that this officer was dismissed from duty, no? Yes, the deputy dropped the ball but it wouldn't have changed anything since 2 months had passed. Dr. G still wouldn't have been able to determine the C.O.D.

JMHO!

 

[Waddles]

http://www.wesh.com/r/28223487/detail.html

Roy Kronk has been subpoenaed as a witness for Casey Anthony's defense, his attorney told WESH 2 News...


Perry said that Kronk could be questioned about his calls to law enforcement to report a suspicious bag, but the defense cannot use his alleged history as evidence that he could be a suspect in the case. ​

​

​

Kronk collected a $5,000 CrimeLine reward for his tip that led to the remains.
Former Anthony family spokesman Mark NeJame also gave Kronk $5,000 earlier as a goodwill gesture. Kronk also received a $20,000 photo licensing fee for a nationally televised interview after the discovery.​

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/28223487/detail.html#ixzz1PWvhfKeB​

​

 

[Steely Dan]

http://www.wesh.com/r/28223487/detail.html

Roy Kronk has been subpoenaed as a witness for Casey Anthony's defense, his attorney told WESH 2 News...


Perry said that Kronk could be questioned about his calls to law enforcement to report a suspicious bag, but the defense cannot use his alleged history as evidence that he could be a suspect in the case. ​

​

​

Kronk collected a $5,000 CrimeLine reward for his tip that led to the remains.
Former Anthony family spokesman Mark NeJame also gave Kronk $5,000 earlier as a goodwill gesture. Kronk also received a $20,000 photo licensing fee for a nationally televised interview after the discovery.​

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/28223487/detail.html#ixzz1PWvhfKeB​

​

Dollars to donuts that JB "makes a mistake" and "accidentally" slips in something about his past.

 

[rossva]

It wasn't a hurricane; it was TROPICAL STORM FAY.

There was a pretty big Hurricane that came through in Mid-August, the water was probably relatively deep.

 

[ylime11]

http://www.wesh.com/r/28223487/detail.html

Roy Kronk has been subpoenaed as a witness for Casey Anthony's defense, his attorney told WESH 2 News...


Perry said that Kronk could be questioned about his calls to law enforcement to report a suspicious bag, but the defense cannot use his alleged history as evidence that he could be a suspect in the case. ​

​

​

Kronk collected a $5,000 CrimeLine reward for his tip that led to the remains.
Former Anthony family spokesman Mark NeJame also gave Kronk $5,000 earlier as a goodwill gesture. Kronk also received a $20,000 photo licensing fee for a nationally televised interview after the discovery.​

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/28223487/detail.html#ixzz1PWvhfKeB​

​

Hope he paid the taxes on that amount of money....seems like CA had problems paying the taxes on what she "earned".

 

[Just Jayla]

It wasn't a hurricane; it was TROPICAL STORM FAY.

Ah yes, thank you!
Though I must type-Every darn time I've been in Orlando there are such horrible storms you cannot even see 10 feet ahead of your car on the highway. I would've been shocked if you could not swim in that area with all the water that goes through that town.

 

[Hot Dogs]

During testimony we learned that the skull was "thin as an eggshell" because of decomposition. It was desribed as being delicate.

Kronk said that when he found the skull on December 11th it was beneath a plastic bag. He says he saw a dome shape beneath the bag and hit it with his metal meter reader rod. It made a hollow sound and that was when he looked further under the bag.

How was he able to hit it with the rod causing the sound and not break or fracture the delicate thin skull?

 

[vlpate]

We went round and round trying to rationally explain it. It's all in those old threads.

IMO, he didn't want to be personally responsible for being the discoverer of Caylee even though he knew exactly where she was even before August 11th. I speculate that he may have even placed an anonymous call to Cindy's tip line explaining where the body was. Cindy may have passed this info on to her PI who went looking but never found her... claiming it was a tip from a psychic but it was really from Kronk. Maybe one of Kronk's coworkers called in the tip. I'm just guessing.

Are you stating Kronk knew, consciously, where Caylee was before August 11? How do you know this?

 

[DawnTCB]

Are you stating Kronk knew, consciously, where Caylee was before August 11? How do you know this?

Well, I don't think HD has any secret information but since I also think RK knew where she was prior to 8/11, I'll jump in with my thoughts.

Here are my top three reasons:
1. MR’s coworker DD says MR said he saw a skull within seconds of walking into the wooded area east of where their truck was parked, which was just minutes after he was discussing the case with his coworkers on the way to the site.

2. MR had, according to him, never been in this area before but saw “something that didn’t look like it should be there”. It's not like he had been gazing at this garbage dump on his breaks for years and this time there was a new and unusually shaped bag. This was his first time there.

3. MR leaves a vague message in his first 911 call, does not leave his name and number, does not ask for a call back, and reminds them repeatedly that he doesn’t want them to assume it is anything like Caylee or a dead body. He does not even mention the word “skull”. Then he is “surprised” when it is not on the news, so he calls back. This is in LE’s supplemental report.

Now my theory tends toward MR getting a tip that Caylee was in that area, just not precisely where, and I believe MR thought he would get LE there and they would do the actual finding. HD :seeya: tends to think differently on that issue.

Right now I just hope we get some resolution on this during the trial. I think MR's cell phone ping records would have cleared this up a long time ago.