The Rumor Mill -- unsubstantiated, yet possible relevant information

[Ruminations]

This point by Hawkshaw is exactly why I cannot separate GB4 and Shannan:

"9. We know that SG was seen running in the opposite direction of where the GB4 were found and we also can believe no one ever bothered to look in that direction until the GB4 were found. One has to wonder if the cops didn't look in that direction when I believe they had every reason to believe that was the direction she was last seen then one has to wonder why?"

One of my "ruminations" is that there is something in the 911 call that suggested the GB4 area to Blue and his handler. Residents in Oak Beach who have spoken to the John JB and possible people who have spoken to the driver MP are people who know more than we about the 911 call. Perhaps someone in that circle knew that there was evidence connecting them to Shannan, but not the GB4. Indeed, there is a lot of information about Shanna and even the the phoning to her family was done on the doc's wife phone, not Shannan's own. The call appeared to me to be aimed at putting off worry or searching rather than harassing and prolonging the torture and murder. Another theory I consider is that Shannan was hiding and away from the GB4 murderer(s) for enough time to make him/them panic and have a reason to try to confirm that she was not home while not inciting a search.

Thank you all for posting and keeping this alive.

 

[Puggle]

This point by Hawkshaw is exactly why I cannot separate GB4 and Shannan:

"9. We know that SG was seen running in the opposite direction of where the GB4 were found and we also can believe no one ever bothered to look in that direction until the GB4 were found. One has to wonder if the cops didn't look in that direction when I believe they had every reason to believe that was the direction she was last seen then one has to wonder why?"

One of my "ruminations" is that there is something in the 911 call that suggested the GB4 area to Blue and his handler. Residents in Oak Beach who have spoken to the John JB and possible people who have spoken to the driver MP are people who know more than we about the 911 call. Perhaps someone in that circle knew that there was evidence connecting them to Shannan, but not the GB4. Indeed, there is a lot of information about Shanna and even the the phoning to her family was done on the doc's wife phone, not Shannan's own. The call appeared to me to be aimed at putting off worry or searching rather than harassing and prolonging the torture and murder. Another theory I consider is that Shannan was hiding and away from the GB4 murderer(s) for enough time to make him/them panic and have a reason to try to confirm that she was not home while not inciting a search.

Thank you all for posting and keeping this alive.

Hawk still not sure what your post at 1410 meant..... can you explain.

Ruminations .... yes it was always very strange that the only search (that I am aware of) was in the opposite direction of where Shannan was last seen. Some of the older posters may be able to confirm or elaborate if any other previous searches by police took place.

To be honest I was somewhat suspicious that the same person who found the first bodies would be the same one a year later to find
Shannans clothing..... and it would seem not so far from where she was last "supposedly" sighted.

I cant imagine there is anything in the tape specifically indicating that they (police) should look in that particular area....but I could be totally wrong.......

Im not sure if Im reading your post right.... but...

I have a thought and it sounds maybe we are thinking the same...possibly...lol..

If the doc was not directly involved ..... in a murder...he may have been present at a party earlier..the previous night....and the next morning became aware that Shannan was missing.....

He may havd injected himself (making calls) to try to find out if something bad had happened.... or to find out if she was ok.......

His behaviour is certainly bizarre ..... he has been proven to be a liar ..... its just the motive behind the lies that intrigues me.

A man guilty of infidelity... guilty of supplying drugs illegally. .... guilty at being present at a party where a girl goes missing would possibly act just as irrationally?...... ahhhh all the questions...thoughts to ponder...

Actually.....thinking about it...... some men... guilty of any one of those things alone ..... may act totally irrational...

Eager to hear this info ....... secrect info ..... about his actions before his first phone call to Mari......and to see if it actually provides any further insights to his behaviour or actions....

May get interesting .....

 

[Puggle]

I know de told me I could find a Pak interview on an old A&E show.....but for the life of me I can't find it.....

I would be so grateful if anyone has a link/copy of his interview..... its the one where he is sitting in what I think could be a bar..... he is wearing his sunglasses.

I really thought when I originally watched it years ago.....that he said he DROVE BACK to oak beach.......Ive been told he didnt say that.....but being me...I need to see and hear it again for myself.

Puggle xx

 

[Ruminations]

Dear Puggle,

Hmmm. You have interesting theories as to the possible motivations Dr. H could have had for placing calls. I am inclined to think that Dr. H has a starring role in the GB4 murders, but he could be a curious neighbor sticking himself in to the situation, digging for info and trying to make himself into the hero as he is inclined to do.

Even if the doctor is not the murderer of the GB4, I think that Shannan was connected. I think she was supposed to be a GB 4 victim who attempted to escape or otherwise flipped the script. She even could have flipped the script inadvertently by having a mental illness flare up.

Your thoughts make me consider that the Dr. is guilty of some foul play with Shannan who was delivered to him after a botched or abandoned attempt to use her like the other GB4. (Or two, at the time.)

I am also under the impression that MP drove back---and communicated with Shannans boyfriend in between. I have to leave my puter, but I will poke around and see if I can find out what gave me that impression.

Of course, my theories are only theories---

 

[Puggle]

Most seem sure that all these murders were planned out..... some thought....covering of ones tracks... hence no (that we are being told) technical trace...forensic trace...

Then Pak would either have to be involved......or he too was meant to be a victim....

I sure hope they checked out his account balance at the time...

 

[Puggle]

Dear Puggle,

Hmmm. You have interesting theories as to the possible motivations Dr. H could have had for placing calls. I am inclined to think that Dr. H has a starring role in the GB4 murders, but he could be a curious neighbor sticking himself in to the situation, digging for info and trying to make himself into the hero as he is inclined to do.

Even if the doctor is not the murderer of the GB4, I think that Shannan was connected. I think she was supposed to be a GB 4 victim who attempted to escape or otherwise flipped the script. She even could have flipped the script inadvertently by having a mental illness flare up.

Your thoughts make me consider that the Dr. is guilty of some foul play with Shannan who was delivered to him after a botched or abandoned attempt to use her like the other GB4. (Or two, at the time.)

I am also under the impression that MP drove back---and communicated with Shannans boyfriend in between. I have to leave my puter, but I will poke around and see if I can find out what gave me that impression.

Of course, my theories are only theories---

Thanks..... have a dig...

I may be 100% wrong..... but if Pak ever did say in any interview that he "drove back" ..... that would be very telling...

There is no way a driver would drive all that way... to an area like that and leave a girl alone.... unless.....

QUESTION..... older posters.... Was it ever discussed why Shannans own boyfriend didn't drive for her? ....... I mean it would ensure their money was theirs..? Why share with an outside party (Pak)...... always made me think she wasn't as Independant as previously suggested...and maybe some other third party still had a hold over her..... Sure Lace Party Girls was wound up.....but really... do these enterprises ever really close or just simply go more underground...

Not one bit of information we have on any of the girls final moments come from a reliable source...... Im talking specifically final...last 24 hours before they went missing.

I wouldn't believe a word from these unreliables (at the time) Pak.... Blaze.... Akeem.... Dave... and for Maureen....we have a Big A amongst the last people she was supposed to have contacted..saying she called him...aww lord...wasn't he supposed to be her lead in to *advertiser censored* according to her friend Jay...

Anyway...enough babble from me...

Yeah if you can come up with anything that would be great....

 

[zero dinh]

Puggle.... I will answer that question, although to me it's a question any one sleuthing this case should know. And just to make sure it's understood, I know who Fluke is, there is no guessing or thinking... Flukeyou is Joe Scalice Jr. I've seen the name many times here, so hopefully I'm not breaking any rules here writing his name. I have communicated with Fluke/Joey through emails. All of them trying to prove to me Hackett is the killer. In fact as far as I know Fluke is the only one placing Hackett at Brewers party. I find it strange people still aren't sure if Fluke is Joey, Robert Kolker interviews Joey Jr. In Lost Girls, and puts it in writing that Flukeyo is Scalice Jr. I get a lot of people asking me how I know for sure Joe is Fluke and there are many reasons including a few phone calls I heard between MM7 and Joe talking on the phone, I believe it is somewhere on my blog, where he discusses why he goes by Flukeyou, but the main reason is Lost Girls. But when people ask me and I say it's in Lost Girls I get back a lot "oh I haven't read that". That always surprises me. Once I read Lost Girls, I understood a lot of things much clearer. So if you are sleuthing or just interested in the case and haven't read it, I highly suggest you do. The Scalises are a family in oak beach who really don't get along with their neighbors. Most stuff on Hackett and other neighbors can be traced back to Fluke. Fluke even said months before Shannan was found where she would be found. And yes he has had 2 mail order brides from Russia. The first one accused Fluke of abusing animals. Again proof is all in my blog. JJ is some one who was part of of Shannan's vigil walks and met Mari. Everyone in the vigil walks were invited into the Scailise family home where Fluke and family told of their thoughts about the Doc, by the way it wasn't till after Flukes stories of Hackett that the phone calls from him became important. Not saying anything about those calls except it seems that after the Scalise family told Mari and the others in their home about Doc that the calls were remembered and reported. I may have that wrong, but it seems to be the case. JJ became friends with the scalise family and soon after was got connected to both Dorothy and MM7 (did Fluke connect them?) and lots of games began to be played on those sites that gave you headaches (my blog is probably included in that) JJ is or at least was a very active member here on Websleuths, some of you may have heard her stories of a friend of hers speaking to a mysterious lady who told JJ's friend that her ( the mysterious lady who by the way had a possible Russian accent) husband was the killer, and she has lots of other stories,and I have most of them in emails. JJ is a cab driver who connected herself right along with everyone and everything in this case. She was there at the door of Brewers home when a group knocked and the supposed Drifter answered. I have countless emails from JJ who seemed to be trying to convince me Fluke was the killer, till I found out how close she was to the scalise family. Just like MM7, Truthspider, Fluke, Dorothy, and a few others, once I got involved and started blogging about it all they all ran away and shut up about all their so called knowledge of the case that I again say all came from Fluke.

 

[zero dinh]

Puggle, I should also point out that JJ could also be Jim Jones. Not sure which one is the JJ you asked about.

 

[zero dinh]

By the way... page 339 in Lost Girls is where Joe Jr. Is said to be Flukeyou.

 

[mcme]

By the way... page 339 in Lost Girls is where Joe Jr. Is said to be Flukeyou.

Long before this was published, he outed himself by getting a little rough with Gus Colletti while news cameras were filming in the old OBI parking lot, and then boasting about it on facebook.

 

[hawkshaw]

PUGGLE, there is a person who's opinions I trust. She is very good with research and financial matters. She has written there are a lot of curious real estate transactions at OB. She told me she believes Coletti once lived in Lindenhurst, or said he did and he declared himself dead. He was supposedly a retired insurance fraud investigator and if it could be done he could do it. She said he is also someone known as Gus Segretti. I have no way of verifying this information, but that is what I was told.

Joe Calise is supposedly connected with Brewer as he has interests on HIgbie Ave., Babylon

 

[Aleph]

What is your blog address, zero dinh? If it's against the rules to post it, could you PM me?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deedee21]

Puggle, Fluke was in charge of the cameras at Oak Beach. Does anyone believe he did not view the tape after all the commotion on the morning of May 1st, 2010? Also the A&E documentary you mentioned was pulled from youtube. It was a UK release. You can see it if you happen to know someone in the UK and they send it to you. It had alot of information. More info than 48 hrs.

 

[Ruminations]

Hi,

Dr. H. himself mentioned meeting "Mike" and "Alex" when he explained why he made the phone call's to Shannan's family.

Oh, my, I almost forgot this drama. He denied making the phone call, then said he forgot he had make it and sent this letter to the media as an explanation.

How weird; he would have to know she was missing he spoke to "Mike" and "Alex," but he seemed to reassure the family that she was getting help in a home for wayward girls. I don't recall noticing that contradiction in the past.

I do remember somebody noting how weird it was that he called them by their shortened first names, as if they were all old buddies.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/48_hours_gilbert.pdf

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Fluke in charge of the cameras? I thought a man named Charles Serota was in charge of the tapes, according to Gus. Considering Fluke's strained relationship with members of the OBIA I doubt he'd be in charge of the security cams but I really don't know much about that aspect

 

[deedee21]

Confusion is right...... sorry Hawk, you completely lost me with that post.??

Fluke in charge of the cameras? I thought a man named Charles Serota was in charge of the tapes, according to Gus. Considering Fluke's strained relationship with members of the OBIA I doubt he'd be in charge of the security cams but I really don't know much about that aspect

You could be right. That sounds familar.

 

[deedee21]

LL6, I got the names mixed up. Isnt this the family with alot of political pull?

 

[Puggle]

Puggle.... I will answer that question, although to me it's a question any one sleuthing this case should know. And just to make sure it's understood, I know who Fluke is, there is no guessing or thinking... Flukeyou is Joe Scalice Jr. I've seen the name many times here, so hopefully I'm not breaking any rules here writing his name. I have communicated with Fluke/Joey through emails. All of them trying to prove to me Hackett is the killer. In fact as far as I know Fluke is the only one placing Hackett at Brewers party. I find it strange people still aren't sure if Fluke is Joey, Robert Kolker interviews Joey Jr. In Lost Girls, and puts it in writing that Flukeyo is Scalice Jr. I get a lot of people asking me how I know for sure Joe is Fluke and there are many reasons including a few phone calls I heard between MM7 and Joe talking on the phone, I believe it is somewhere on my blog, where he discusses why he goes by Flukeyou, but the main reason is Lost Girls. But when people ask me and I say it's in Lost Girls I get back a lot "oh I haven't read that". That always surprises me. Once I read Lost Girls, I understood a lot of things much clearer. So if you are sleuthing or just interested in the case and haven't read it, I highly suggest you do. The Scalises are a family in oak beach who really don't get along with their neighbors. Most stuff on Hackett and other neighbors can be traced back to Fluke. Fluke even said months before Shannan was found where she would be found. And yes he has had 2 mail order brides from Russia. The first one accused Fluke of abusing animals. Again proof is all in my blog. JJ is some one who was part of of Shannan's vigil walks and met Mari. Everyone in the vigil walks were invited into the Scailise family home where Fluke and family told of their thoughts about the Doc, by the way it wasn't till after Flukes stories of Hackett that the phone calls from him became important. Not saying anything about those calls except it seems that after the Scalise family told Mari and the others in their home about Doc that the calls were remembered and reported. I may have that wrong, but it seems to be the case. JJ became friends with the scalise family and soon after was got connected to both Dorothy and MM7 (did Fluke connect them?) and lots of games began to be played on those sites that gave you headaches (my blog is probably included in that) JJ is or at least was a very active member here on Websleuths, some of you may have heard her stories of a friend of hers speaking to a mysterious lady who told JJ's friend that her ( the mysterious lady who by the way had a possible Russian accent) husband was the killer, and she has lots of other stories,and I have most of them in emails. JJ is a cab driver who connected herself right along with everyone and everything in this case. She was there at the door of Brewers home when a group knocked and the supposed Drifter answered. I have countless emails from JJ who seemed to be trying to convince me Fluke was the killer, till I found out how close she was to the scalise family. Just like MM7, Truthspider, Fluke, Dorothy, and a few others, once I got involved and started blogging about it all they all ran away and shut up about all their so called knowledge of the case that I again say all came from Fluke.

Zero.... thanks for your reply...I actually got alot from your post...somethings I had missed.

I have read lost girls....lost my copy to a friend.

The blogs themselves were Ok...just probably the comments did my head in.....Yours was/is good because you at least seem to be trying to seperate fact from fiction.

Lol....not a newb....suppose I could have asked diffrently.... I was thinking more along the lines...that some posts on these other older sites may not have been really Joey.... ahhh forget it....it all gets too messy....

And thanks for the extra info ...

Puggle xx

 

[zero dinh]

I get what you are saying puggle. I really do.

 

[hawkshaw]

The camera guy was mentioned as Serota when this Blog first began. I don't know if this is the same Serota the builder, who should have some major pull. The very idea they have a gate and a camera tells me this community wants to keep things a quiet as they can. It also tells me a lot of people know a lot of other people's business.

As I have always said from Day 1 I never even tried to sleuth the killer - how could I? What I always said is there are some folks, even a lot of them have at least a pretty good idea who the killer(s) is. If they don't know they can point the cops in the right direction. I am also of the belief there are a lot of the gals that suspect who did it and they aren't talking.