The Sidebar - Harris Trial #2

[katydid23]

Knew it. You think they'll retry him?

I think they have to.

 

[pocketaccent]

This is an interesting article it's lawyers and trial experts assessing the case and each of them give their opinions on what the verdict will be for each count. Apologies if already posted.

http://www.11alive.com/news/local/r...s-weigh-in-on-the-ross-harris-trial/350707305

Thank you for the link!

The Prosecution wins Malice and Felony:
-Meg Strickler (Criminal defense attorney) - referred Dr. Brewer as 'howdy doody gentleman'
-LaTonia Hines (Prosecutor)
-Joyce Morley (Psychotherapist)- says 'Leanna became his mother'. RH has a borderline personality disorder.
-Darryl Cohen (Criminal defense attorney and former Prosecutor)- RH could not have forgotten Cooper in 3 min after a text saying he needed to be free.

The Prosecution did not prove Malice, Felony yes:
-Vinnie (former Prosecutor)
-Joseph Scott Morgan (Professor of Applied Science)
-Charles Mittelstadt (Criminal Defense consulting firm)

The defense won:
-Randy Kessler (Family attorney)

 

[Hope4More]

Ugh. Ok, then. The video descriptors don't get accurately state the talking heady opinions. Ugh. Wish they had, because this panel isn't about legal analysis (I wish), it's about drive by opinion, not even sure if all these folks actually even watched the trial.

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HE DID IT!!!!


Meg Srickland video. Nancy Grace over the top style, the State proved Ross was a bad husband, etc. Said State would have a more difficult time proving malice, but that all other charges, including "3rd degree" child cruelty convictions were a slam dunk. Except, there isn't such thing as 3rd degree CC charge in GA that Im aware of, and if there is, RH isn't on trial for the charge. Oops.

Difficult to put much stock in the opinion of someone who doesn't even know what the charges are.

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LaTonia Hines. Props for knowing the charges (I guess), thinks it was a "common sense, " straightforward case, the State proved RH was a bad husband, a bad man, and the time of forgetting wasn't believable, so malice murder (assume that's what she meant).


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Joyce Morley. Candidate for a Dr. Drew type show. Diagnoses RH as having BPD (tsk, tsk), analyzes their marriage (never should have happened), believes a parent who loves their child " never forgets them ." Ah. Doesn't believe FBS is real. Dismissed


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Darryl Cohen. "Judge Staley was impressive," "the State proved (malice) beyond any reasonable doubt, " only basis he presents is his belief it was impossible to forget Cooper in those "3 minutes and change."

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I live in a region of brutally cold temperatures too. I've never heard of a case of a cold car death---and I agree, it's for all the reasons you have stated plus the fact that metabolism slows WAY down.

An 11 yr old boy fell through the ice years ago in December, was underwater for 45minutes, was clinically dead when brought in, and yet survived.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-12-22/news/mn-30740_1_red-river

That really blows my mind, how people can survive that. I read a story about a toddler who survived after something like 90 min or 2 hours underwater in freezing water. Somehow he was revived without major brain damage. Miraculous!

 

[minor4th]

Thank you for the link!

The Prosecution wins Malice and Felony:
-Meg Strickler (Criminal defense attorney) - referred Dr. Brewer as 'howdy doody gentleman'
-LaTonia Hines (Prosecutor)
-Joyce Morley (Psychotherapist)- says 'Leanna became his mother'. RH has a borderline personality disorder.
-Darryl Cohen (Criminal defense attorney and former Prosecutor)- RH could not have forgotten Cooper in 3 min after a text saying he needed to be free.

The Prosecution did not prove Malice, Felony yes:
-Vinnie (former Prosecutor)
-Joseph Scott Morgan (Professor of Applied Science)
-Charles Mittelstadt (Criminal Defense consulting firm)

The defense won:
-Randy Kessler (Family attorney)

These experts were a little bit useless. They were not very familiar with the facts of the case or the law that applies in Ga. IMO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I agree jdj

Orange is the new black has got to be the dumbest reason IMO to search about prison. The show is set in a prison. You watch the show and see them in prison LOL. IMO he read about prison because he was thinking about the age of consent in Georgia.

And nobody but Ross knows why he read about prison. It is not a fact that it's about the show. That's his attorneys claim. Very different.

As far as not deleting the apps? My opinion is he never thought that would be what they looked for or happened to see. Most criminals are not very bright. And he is a criminal. That is a fact. He sent minors pictures of his penis and he asked for photos back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep - he had the apps hidden, and I think he thought they'd look at regular SMS texts and emails, not do an actual forensic extraction and find things.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

There was NO HISTORY on his phone beyond that day. Weird.

BS if I'm remembering right. I'll have to look today- my apologies if wrong. But that speaks volumes to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you're right, or close - I think there wasn't history prior to June 17th. But I'm not sure exactly what history was cleared - just browser? Or all texts? And was anything recovered with the forensic extraction?

 

[Hope4More]

Malice unproven, "felony murder" yes.

Joseph Morgan. "This was an uphill climb for the State, malice very difficult to prove, likely didn't."

Felony murder, yes, because RH was obviously negligent because he left Cooper in the car.
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On paper, at least, even proving "gross negligence" by RH doesn't suffice to meet the burden of proof for the lesser charge, 2nd degree child cruelty, much less CC in the 1st degree.

Also, the felony murder charges are separate charges. It's theoretically possible for the jury to find him guilty of 2CC , yet to vote not guilty of felony murder.

 

[yupikgirl]

I think you're right, or close - I think there wasn't history prior to June 17th. But I'm not sure exactly what history was cleared - just browser? Or all texts? And was anything recovered with the forensic extraction?

I'm remembering it at the safari history- I'll have more time to look tonight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hope4More]

These experts were a little bit useless. They were not very familiar with the facts of the case or the law that applies in Ga. IMO

Yep. I'd love to hear some actual trial analysis by criminal trial attorneys who are familiar with both GA law and what happened at trial.

Watched enough of the videos to get this wasn't that group, and legal analysis wasn't the goal. Oh well.

 

[TexMex]

Malice unproven, "felony murder" yes.

Joseph Morgan. "This was an uphill climb for the State, malice very difficult to prove, likely didn't."

Felony murder, yes, because RH was obviously negligent because he left Cooper in the car. On paper, at least, even proving "gross negligence" by RH doesn't suffice to meet the burden of proof for the lesser charge, 2nd degree child cruelty, much less CC in the 1st degree.

Also, the felony murder charges are separate charges. It's theoretically possible for the jury to find him guilty of 2CC , yet to vote not guilty of felony murder.

One Holloway video said only way likely that jury would convict on one of the cruelty charges and go not guilty on felony murder is if a juror knows the penalties for felony murder and thinks it's too severe. Any felony murder (charges 2&3) is 30 years until parole eligibility.
One reason Kilgore said in closing "murder is murder is murder"
However, jury is not supposed to consider the penalties.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Over exaggerating things to get a grand jury indictment on Murder 1 is just wrong. And it looks like they took advantage of it.

 

[TexMex]

These experts were a little bit useless. They were not very familiar with the facts of the case or the law that applies in Ga. IMO

Strickler, Hines and Cohen are all liscensed Georgia attorneys IIRC.

 

[Hope4More]

One Holloway video said only way likely that jury would convict on one of the cruelty charges and go not guilty on felony murder is if a juror knows the penalties for felony murder and thinks it's too severe. Any felony murder (charges 2&3) is 30 years until parole eligibility.
One reason Kilgore said in closing "murder is murder is murder"
However, jury is not supposed to consider the penalties.

They sure aren't supposed to consider penalties, and even if they are inclined to do so, I believe the juror who said she'd make sure everyone followed the rules lol.

I'll have to suck it up and listen to that hour plus charge Staley gave the jury, because those are the instructions the jury will be following, to the best of their ability.

If the instructions indicate if one, then the other must follow, I'd agree with Holloway that it's unlikely, but not impossible the jury would convict on CC but not felony murder


But I can see two scenarios other than consideration of punishment in which the jury might find CC, but not FM.

One is a compromise verdict . The State didn't imo, prove "criminal negligence" as defined by law. If the jury believes intent, these destinctions will be irrelevant in practice, but theoretically at least, the jury can only find criminal negligence if RH knowingly and recklessly took actions that caused Cooper's death.

Closest the State gets to that is the fact RH texted at the intersection, , but their own case is that RH had already decided to kill Cooper before he reached the intersection.

The bigger reach legally imo is that RH's texting at CFA and /or the night before, his choice, was so distracting that his doing so was reckless, etc.

So, a compromise, no, technically didn't prove 2nd CC, but split the difference, yes to 2nd CC, no to felony murder. Especially if the jury is so split they'll hang without a compromise.

The much less likely scenario is a jury that doesn't believe and/or agree with/or even understand how an accidental death, even one caused by criminal negligence, can be /should be deemed a murder.

 

[Hope4More]

Strickler, Hines and Cohen are all liscensed Georgia attorneys IIRC.

Doesn't mean they know much about the case , or about the relevant laws (Strickler didn't), but even if they did, a 1-2 minute drive by, soundbite format doesn't allow them the opportunity to do more than state an over generalized opinion about "who won."

Guessing this was a Vinnie Politan thing?

 

[minor4th]

One Holloway video said only way likely that jury would convict on one of the cruelty charges and go not guilty on felony murder is if a juror knows the penalties for felony murder and thinks it's too severe. Any felony murder (charges 2&3) is 30 years until parole eligibility.
One reason Kilgore said in closing "murder is murder is murder"
However, jury is not supposed to consider the penalties.

The penalties were even described in the jury instructions - essentially informing them that punishment for murder and Fremont murder are similar

 

[arkansasmimi]

:thinking: curious if 16 peoples electronics were to looked at how many did research or watched videos..since beginning of October..any marathon YouTube videos? Hypothetical of course :sweep:

 

[TexMex]

Tailgating and fixing to head into Kyle Field

Brisket

 

[arkansasmimi]

The penalties were even described in the jury instructions - essentially informing them that punishment for murder and Fremont murder are similar

Remember that one post that was debated if screen shot or what but told the penalty for sex with minor iirc. That was pretty slick getting that bit info in but he not changed with that one.

 

[katydid23]

Yep. I'd love to hear some actual trial analysis by criminal trial attorneys who are familiar with both GA law and what happened at trial.

Watched enough of the videos to get this wasn't that group, and legal analysis wasn't the goal. Oh well.

One thing that I have seen from watching a lot of trials, is that 'what lawyers think' and what 'juries think' are often really really different. lol