The Sidebar - Harris Trial #2

[Hope4More]

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You'll have to eat them yourself, sorry to say.

This is what I do. I'm willing to acknowledge that there was a pause, and that it was a meaningful pause, and even, that RH may have skipped the part about the lightbulbs by choice.

But...bringing in that context thing.

It's also possible that in the several hours before that interview RH had already put those pieces together, had already realized what could have been, had already screamed about it at the scene, or in Piper's car, or had sobbed about it at the station.

And, when it came to that part of his account what he realized, in that pause , was that there was no way this suspicious Stoddard was going to believe him that he hadn't seen Cooper.

 

[Hope4More]

H4M - your message box is full.

Better now..

 

[MzOpinion8d]

He insinuated it to the Magistrate, then he has changed it several times. Final he more less agreed his head didnt go down below the roof.

That's my point - Stoddard never said his head went below the roof.

 

[*JMO*]

The more I learn about the details in the case the more convinced I am that he did it on purpose. From this one article I see these things that are very very disturbing.

"Harris pulled into a shopping center parking lot roughly seven minutes after leaving the Home Depot campus. He pulled Cooper's lifeless body from the car. His screams attracted a crowd of onlookers, some of whom called 911 and others of whom attempted to help Harris administer first aid to Cooper."

So he drives a whole 7 minutes before he pulls into where?
Of course a place where there will be plenty of witnesses for his "act".

IMO he wanted that scene to be at lunchtime but they didnt stay long enough or there were not enough other persons around for his scene to have the effect he wanted. Same after work. He got off too early around 4pm for his movie so probably not enough people around. So he takes off to find his audience.

Next we have this....

"Upon signing off on the indictment, Cobb County Chief Magistrate Frank Cox also remarked that Harris should have noticed that "the stench in the car was overwhelming" upon entering the car that afternoon."

So we are supposed to believe from him that the "smell" took 7 whole minutes to get to his nose before he noticed him in backseat. BS
Or whatever he claims about his sinuses not being able to smell that. BS
The smell of death is one of the most distinct, unappealing, strong odors on earth.

Next....

"Investigators found Harris made online searches in the days before Cooper's death related directly to babies in hot cars, and one search for "how to survive prison.""

ok...so forget about the searches for babies dying in hot cars. The one on how to survive prison is the one that is most striking to me. He knew there was a chance his plan would not work!

Next...

"an app that encourages people to tell secrets, Stoddard testified that Harris wrote "I miss having time to myself" and said he hated being married with kids"

No need to comment on that. Self explanatory.
Next...

"citing a time when Harris allegedly sent pictures of his genitalia to women while attending an Atlanta Braves baseball game with his son."

And we are supposed to believe he cared a lot about his son to be doing this sort of thing at a ballgame with his boy. Good grief.

And finally....

We are supposed to believe he forgot to take boy to daycare. Well the daycare themselves sent him an email that day.

"They also discovered Harris received a group email that day from Cooper's day care that apparently failed to jog his memory."

Ive seen enough to convince me of his guilt in this 1 single article.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/us/justin-ross-harris-trial-explainer/

BBM: I understand this point and agree it is compelling. But in the cases of other parents in similar forgotten baby situations the parent also drove a deceased baby in the car after a day at work and also did not notice an odor. In the case in our hometown a few months ago the mother spent a day at work and then drove to the day care to pick up her baby, forgetting that she had never dropped him off. Only after going into the day care center and being told she did not bring him did she discover him in the car.

So I am just pointing out that this in itself is not an indicator of guilt unless we are to believe these other parents are also guilty of murdering their baby.

 

[knt]

I don't think Ross killed Cooper on purpose but that point about him wanting to be an advocate has always given me pause. I do believe Ross would crave that life. John Walsh gets attention, respect, fame, is on TV, a celebrity of sorts, and the potential for the money that comes with TV and fame, That would be Ross's dream life.

ETA; this was suppose to be a reply to Katydid23 but WS is acting up.

 

[kanzz]

Nope~~ Increases it..

BUT not to gain any excuses for what Ross did.. Cooper was only 22 months old .His metabolism is already much higher than any teen/ adult..not to mention his loss of fluid the urination and sweating, due to "Greenhouse affect"..would have risen temps+++ ..and his little body ( 21 pounds) would have resulted in enormous fluid loss.. Between breathing..urinating and sweating..Cooper had absolutely NO chance to survive :facepalm:

I come from a practical side of HC..I dealt with children//dehydration cases..also kids with diabetes..and kids with flu or any other causes for fluid loss... Most kids with fevers and much fluid loss un-replaced..often never got to us in ER..WHY..Because Kids would never survive prolonged fluid deprivation ..

Cooper was only 21 lbs..he couldn't have survived more than a few hours..never mind 6-8 hours!! in that "HOT CAR", that had no windows cracked.. Temp. inside was no doubt much+ higher than outside!!

I'm actually tired of trying to explain this ..as it seems many want to twist into pretzels to excuse this Idiot.. IF lay people do NOT want to accept actual real life proof of things..and make excuses..I give up!!

I've seen too many real life exhibits in my life as front line HC provider..to KNOW some things!! I post links..but obviously disregarded..due to need to S'plain away Sex addicted idiot!! ..There was no way he didn't do this..and there were so many red flags..It's not a wonder LE.. arrested him immediately..and Investigated!!

If people have a personal vendetta against LE/Detectives..that's really personal..and in this case..there's no way..Ross didn't do this on purpose..and due to his weirdness..and verbiage..and even LeANNE was weird too..I don't blame LE for looking deeper. Meanwhile a beautiful 21 month old boy perished at the hands of a father!! A father who played the "DADDY" but actually believed..Cooper was a necessary consequence ti moving on.. Ross could not have actually had a connection to Cooper..or could never even contemplate this..let alone do it!! Any parent who loves their family (kids) would give up their own life for them. Ross has no conception of what love is..It's all a GAME TO HIM!!

I usually just read in this forum for updates.. but I decided to post just because I'm an RN with many yrs in the ER and I wanted to give you a Virtual Standing Ovation!

:applause:

 

[PaperDoll]

You'll have to eat them yourself, sorry to say.

This is what I do. I'm willing to acknowledge that there was a pause, and that it was a meaningful pause, and even, that RH may have skipped the part about the lightbulbs by choice.

But...bringing in that context thing.

It's also possible that in the several hours before that interview RH had already put those pieces together, had already realized what could have been, had already screamed about it at the scene, or in Piper's car, or had sobbed about it at the station.

And, when it came to that part of his account what he realized, in that pause , was that there was no way this suspicious Stoddard was going to believe him that he hadn't seen Cooper.

BBM: Ross had nothing to hide if he was telling the truth. He could claim he didn’t see Cooper at lunch, just like he claimed when he didn’t make that turn to day care. If he didn’t knowCooper was in the car when leaving CFA, than he didn’t know he was there any time at all during that day. Why hide it?

(again typing in Word doc,words may run together and I don’t know why) UGH!

 

[EquallyDivided]

I'm thinking about the digestion fo food in Cooper's tummy.

Can anyone find a minute log of RH actions on the day Cooper died? I can't find out WHEN RH left for lunch, or when he returned.

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[blue22]

On a completely unrelated note, I do have an unfortunate distraction from the verdict limbo anxiety. My betta fish (I've had for 5 months) is on "life support" for the third time. I swear, this fish is going to give me gray hair before I'm 32. I'm stressed trying to figure out what's making him hunker down on a rock at the bottom of his tank and tilt sideways again! The first time he needed a water change (I am new at this), the second time he had a swollen bladder from eating too much, now...I don't know, but I'm setting out water to do a complete water change tomorrow--hopefully he'll be okay.

Maybe fish have 9 lives too...

What kind of water are you using? Are you using the drops or tablets that make the water conditions appropriate for them?

 

[LyndyLoo]

All of that is incredibly fascinating---and it certainly makes sense in hindsight that hyperthermia would increase digestion. I'm trying to figure in my own mind how likely it was that Cooper was alive at 12:40 when he opened that door. His small size, as you described, must've allowed for the actual dying stages to be less prolonged than I thought (thank goodness), but when he died would be contingent upon when the car became hot enough to commence sweating. I know this evidence was presented, but can't exactly recall--I want to say the temps were nearing 90 in the 11 o'clock hour--that certainly would've caused perspiration.
I was thinking he was alive at 12:40, and probably died between1 and 2, but I hadn't factored in the fluid loss he would've experienced prior to hyperthermic conditions setting in.

:

I think you are NOT factoring in that Closed vehicle would be like a Green House affect..So temp may be 90+ outside..but inside that vehicle temps would increase by the minute..Maybe you should watch the Pet ( vet) person describe how temp inside escalated within 30 minutes..meanwhile outside temp remain constant...There's no excuse nor need to believe..ANY Closed space would remain similar nor have circulation of air from Ross's SIV interior ....It's not possible for Cooper to even survive till lunch time..and I don't give a care about tree..because without air circulations..the environment without it..will HEAT up !! Meanwhile Cooper breaths out ( losing fluid) and urinates (losing fluid) then perspires ( fluids loss)..and given his age and body mass..No way this loss didn't cause metabolic changes..consciousness decrease..Panic and trying to escape..which would explain his small nail scratching on his face... .. I happen to know from experience..without air circulations and increasing heat..coupled with NO Re-hydration ( fluids) is a recipe for death of any child restrained and unable to escape out of vehicle. If cooper had of been older..he would have known how to undo restraints..open car door..BUT Conveniently..Ross likely knew his time window was narrowing.. ..

 

[FinallyRegistered]

I'm thinking about the digestion fo food in Cooper's tummy.

Can anyone find a minute log of RH actions on the day Cooper died? I can't find out WHEN RH left for lunch, or when he returned.

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I don't have that info handy, but on Stoddard's direct, Exhibit 430, the Publix receipt says 11:54am.

 

[NCTeacher]

I'm thinking about the digestion fo food in Cooper's tummy.

Can anyone find a minute log of RH actions on the day Cooper died? I can't find out WHEN RH left for lunch, or when he returned.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

IIRC, he left around 11:20 and was back around12:45.

 

[DaleTray]

Bouncing off just one part of that, whether or not he'd a sociopath, etc.

I don't think he is that. I don't believe he killed Cooper on purpose. But there is this, when I insist on intellectual honesty, which I do.

I've rewatched the part of his LE interview, multiple times now, when he is recounting his day to Stoddsrd and he says I went to lunch and...LONG pause.

It IS a long pause. There aren't any other pauses like it in the interview. What was he thinking?

I believe he would have been highly unlikely to pause had he intended to kill Cooper and/or hadn't intended to, but realized before noon that he'd forgotten Cooper, and arranged a lightbulb trip to check.

That moment of checking would have been the very moment he would have known he'd have to account for, convincingly. I can't be convinced RH didn't think it was at least possible, if not absolutely probable, that LE would speak to his lunch time friends.

So why did he hesitate, then omit the lightbulb trip? IMO, it's because his telling of the chronology was the first time he realized Cooper was in the car then, and for all he knew (right?) , was still alive, or at least, might have been, because he had no way of knowing for sure, because he in fact didn't look, didn't check, and worse, wasn't prompted to remember Cooper, even standing there near the car.

That's what I think may have run through his mind in the brief pause, that and just as quickly, better not tell LE about that because it looks bad and they'll use it against me, and I need to get out of here, not give them any reason at all to hold onto that phone which, if they search it , will send me to prison.

So, here's the thing about that pause and how he responded. I find it almost impossible to believe he could have been so deeply in shock that he'd show no emotional response to suddenly realizing he was right there at the car, perhaps could have saved him, but in any case could have prevented his dead son from being alone in the car, abandoned, for hours longer.

What kind of person, realizing that, pauses, then goes on, matter of factly describing the rest of his day, in an effort to save his own arse?

Not a sociopath, necessarily, and not a murderer, necessarily, but for a fact, necessarily, if that's what the pause was about, a man who couldn't possibly have loved his son in any definition of the word I can understand.

I enjoy everyone of your insightful post. Your post are usually fact supported or indicative you dig deep into your thoughts in search for reasoning. You dug deep for this one. I know it's difficult to be one of the few w opposing views but you sure do express yourself clearly. Helps me keep my eyes open from both sides and I thank you for the time and effort .

 

[knt]

Bouncing off just one part of that, whether or not he'd a sociopath, etc.

I don't think he is that. I don't believe he killed Cooper on purpose. But there is this, when I insist on intellectual honesty, which I do.

I've rewatched the part of his LE interview, multiple times now, when he is recounting his day to Stoddsrd and he says I went to lunch and...LONG pause.

It IS a long pause. There aren't any other pauses like it in the interview. What was he thinking?

I believe he would have been highly unlikely to pause had he intended to kill Cooper and/or hadn't intended to, but realized before noon that he'd forgotten Cooper, and arranged a lightbulb trip to check.

That moment of checking would have been the very moment he would have known he'd have to account for, convincingly. I can't be convinced RH didn't think it was at least possible, if not absolutely probable, that LE would speak to his lunch time friends.

So why did he hesitate, then omit the lightbulb trip? IMO, it's because his telling of the chronology was the first time he realized Cooper was in the car then, and for all he knew (right?) , was still alive, or at least, might have been, because he had no way of knowing for sure, because he in fact didn't look, didn't check, and worse, wasn't prompted to remember Cooper, even standing there near the car.

That's what I think may have run through his mind in the brief pause, that and just as quickly, better not tell LE about that because it looks bad and they'll use it against me, and I need to get out of here, not give them any reason at all to hold onto that phone which, if they search it , will send me to prison.

So, here's the thing about that pause and how he responded. I find it almost impossible to believe he could have been so deeply in shock that he'd show no emotional response to suddenly realizing he was right there at the car, perhaps could have saved him, but in any case could have prevented his dead son from being alone in the car, abandoned, for hours longer.

What kind of person, realizing that, pauses, then goes on, matter of factly describing the rest of his day, in an effort to save his own arse?

Not a sociopath, necessarily, and not a murderer, necessarily, but for a fact, necessarily, if that's what the pause was about, a man who couldn't possibly have loved his son in any definition of the word I can understand.

Hope, it's a joy reading your posts. I totally concur. I don't need to post because you express everything much more eloquently than I ever could.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM: Ross had nothing to hide if he was telling the truth. He could claim he didn’t see Cooper at lunch, just like he claimed when he didn’t make that turn to day care. If he didn’t knowCooper was in the car when leaving CFA, than he didn’t know he was there any time at all during that day. Why hide it?

(again typing in Word doc,words may run together and I don’t know why) UGH!

Because, really, up to that point RH might have thought he could persuade LE it was an accident, but admitting that he went to his car, opened the door, and didn't see Cooper?

How many people here find that impossible to believe? He would have had to know hinky alarms would be ringing loudly enough to be heard even in his own right ear.

(One of my standing points for any and all time in his interactions with LE after his phone was seized - imo he was at all times fearful of doing anything that might keep his phone in their hands.)

 

[Hope4More]

Hope, it's a joy reading your posts. I totally concur. I don't need to post because you express everything much more eloquently than I ever could.

Thank you so much for the kind words. . But....did you read my qualifying post following this one?

 

[gregjrichards]

Can I please ask a question I'm sorry if I have missed this I'm sure it's been covered very well. Were the Prosecutors able to pull video of how RH normally got in and out of his car at work on a normal day? & if so were the jury able to compare it to how he got in the car putting the lightbulbs in and when he found little Cooper on that tragic day?

Apologies in advance if this has been covered already I've not been able to cover to case as closely as I wanted due to health issues. Any replies much appreciated. This is a very difficult case thanks so much to all of you for your in depth analysis.

 

[PaperDoll]

Because, really, up to that point RH might have thought he could persuade LE it was an accident, but admitting that he went to his car, opened the door, and didn't see Cooper?

How many people here find that impossible to believe? Hewould have had to know hinky alarms would be ringing loudly enough to be heard even in his own right ear.

(One of my standing points for any and all time in his interactions with LE after his phone was seized - imo he was at all times fearful of doing anything that might keep his phone in their hands.)

BBM: I do, that is one reason why I find him guilty on all accounts

 

[NCTeacher]

Can I please ask a question I'm sorry if I have missed this I'm sure it's been covered very well. Were the Prosecutors able to pull video of how RH normally got in and out of his car at work on a normal day? & if so were the jury able to compare it to how he got in the car putting the lightbulbs in and when he found little Cooper on that tragic day?

Apologies in advance if this has been covered already I've not been able to cover to case as closely as I wanted due to health issues. Any replies much appreciated. This is a very difficult case thanks so much to all of you for your in depth analysis.

Along this same vein, did Ross have his bag (laptop bag) when he went home for the day (;eft for movies)? How did he enter the car? I can't imagine he would enter the car with the bag still on his hip (I'm blonde, I've done this before--you end up sitting on the bag)--so that would require leaning into the car to put it on the passenger seat/center console area (egads!), or passenger floor area. And how does this compare to how he normally entered the car with his bag at the end of the day?

 

[Hope4More]

I enjoy everyone of your insightful post. Your post are usually fact supported or indicative you dig deep into your thoughts in search for reasoning. You dug deep for this one. I know it's difficult to be one of the few w opposing views but you sure do express yourself clearly. Helps me keep my eyes open from both sides and I thank you for the time and effort .

Is it my birthday? Two presents in a row? . Thank you, really.

Btw. I'm perfectly ok with being in the minority here or elsewhere. The majority may irk me once in awhile, the same way I seem to irk the majority (perhaps a tad more frequently? ) but often enough that's because I'm being challenged to question my reasoning. Fair enough, a good thing too, and I'm grateful for all the thought provoking discussion on these threads.