The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[USARDOG]

....While they may have considered other suspects briefly, perhaps as conspirators, LE did not research others in the kind of detail they subjected Casey to. This is because they arrested her so quickly that she hired a lawyer and stopped speaking to LE. Unfortunately, situations like this can be used by attorneys to create reasonable doubt in juries minds.

You keep coming back to this... LE can not afford to do detailed investigations on everyone in orange county. KC made herself the prime suspect, lied her butt off while straightening her blouse down at the station... There is no one else who had access, or motive. LE did their job and while I fully expect the defense to say the same as you have, I also expect the jury to have a good laugh about it in private. This is the real world, not tv, and when every single piece of evidence points to one person and one person only...

 

[Balthazar]

Not really, Princess:
1) KC had the car.
2) KC had the child.
3) KC declined to report that her child was missing, thus endangering the child.
4) When caught KC identified a person for whom there is no evidence of existence, lied repeatedly, and then led LE on a couple of wild goose chases.
5) Caylee's decompositional chemicals are in the trunk.
6) KC drove around with the decompositional fluids in her trunk, for several days.

LE is obligated to investigate those to whom the evidence points. Period.

The evidence points straight to KC. All of it.

It's like the Scott Peterson case. No evidence pointed to anyone BUT Peterson, despite his lame attempts to implicate other (non-existent) people.

Or, the recent Coleman case. No one but the husband/father had method and opportunity. He is now claiming that people who resent his religion have been threatening him. But, all the evidence points to him. He had method, motive, and opportunity. He is claiming threats from sources that don't appear to exist.

One can't create reasonable doubt, unless there is a viable and believable alternate perp, with some evidentiary backing.

No offense, but why are you trying to prove Caylee is the ONLY suspect on a thread to discuss what the SODDI defense might be?

Maybe I haven't made myself clear. I do think that Casey probably committed this crime (although I will NOT make up my mind until I have heard the prosecution and defense cases at the trial.) It is apparent that the defense team is going to use several different aspects of the way the entire case was handled to create reasonable doubt. So, what I'm doing is trying to examine what the areas of weakness are. I do think there is room for there to be viable and believable alternate perps in this case - it's all going to depend on what Casey has told Baez and Co. I thought we were trying to determine what it might be that she has told Baez and what the defense was going to present at the trial - not debate the prosecution case as opposed to the defense case. I think this is where these types of threads have gotten off track in the past and I hope we can get back on track and examine the SODDI Defense - as the thread is titled.

 

[RR0004]

Read the interviews of all the subjects that LE met with and consider if they are deeply detailed focusing on the subject being interviewed or if they focused on Casey. It is very plain that LE fixed upon Casey the day they first met her and focused heavily on her in all interviews. While they may have considered other suspects briefly, perhaps as conspirators, LE did not research others in the kind of detail they subjected Casey to. This is because they arrested her so quickly that she hired a lawyer and stopped speaking to LE. Unfortunately, situations like this can be used by attorneys to create reasonable doubt in juries minds.

Casey could have told the truth anytime...lawyer or no lawyer.

 

[RR0004]

No offense, but why are you trying to prove Caylee is the ONLY suspect on a thread to discuss what the SODDI defense might be?

Maybe I haven't made myself clear. I do think that Casey probably committed this crime (although I will NOT make up my mind until I have heard the prosecution and defense cases at the trial.) It is apparent that the defense team is going to use several different aspects of the way the entire case was handled to create reasonable doubt. So, what I'm doing is trying to examine what the areas of weakness are. I do think there is room for there to be viable and believable alternate perps in this case - it's all going to depend on what Casey has told Baez and Co. I thought we were trying to determine what it might be that she has told Baez and what the defense was going to present at the trial - not debate the prosecution case as opposed to the defense case. I think this is where these types of threads have gotten off track in the past and I hope we can get back on track and examine the SODDI Defense - as the thread is titled.

Seems to me so far that there hasn't been anyone that would hold up under scrutiny. After much discussion, I have to say that if there is someone else...other than the friends I'm sure she's willing to sacrifice for her freedom...they would have revealed it long ago. So what we may want to conclude is that this isn't a viable defense and JB will not attempt going this route.

 

[Balthazar]

Does "anyone" have access to your car?

If no, how could "anyone" have access to KC's car?

So.. WHO helped her, and where is the evidence? If there is evidence, why has no one else been arrested?

It's fun to think of a SODDI. But, who and what evidence still has to be part of the court presentation.

It is very easy to gain access to someone's car. That's why car thieves and lock smiths are so prolific and successful around the world. In addition, it is reasonable to assume that more than one person had a key to Casey's car. The extra key might have been stolen and the theft gone unnoticed or she may have given a key to someone in case she locked herself out of her car. She may have even had a hide-a-key somewhere. We really don't know about her car key situation at all. The fact is anyone can buy a Locksmith Tool set or a Jiffy Jack for opening cars. A Jiffy Jack will open 80% of the cars on the road today - so it most likely would work on Casey's car. So yes, ANYONE can have access to anyone's car.

 

[Balthazar]

Casey could have told the truth anytime...lawyer or no lawyer.

Yes, but she has chosen to follow her attorney's advice. She does have the right to do that, you know.

 

[RR0004]

Yes, but she has chosen to follow her attorney's advice. She does have the right to do that, you know.

Of course...but she could always have told the truth and let LE track down these SODI(s). Her daughter's life was at stake (according to Casey). Time was of the essence. Who better to help than Casey? We couldn't expect LE to be clairvoyant and know exactly who/where to look. They needed something (truthful) to go on. If she had information, then both she and her attorney decided to sacrifice Caylee...and for what?

 

[RR0004]

It is very easy to gain access to someone's car. That's why car thieves and lock smiths are so prolific and successful around the world. In addition, it is reasonable to assume that more than one person had a key to Casey's car. The extra key might have been stolen and the theft gone unnoticed or she may have given a key to someone in case she locked herself out of her car. She may have even had a hide-a-key somewhere. We really don't know about her car key situation at all. The fact is anyone can buy a Locksmith Tool set or a Jiffy Jack for opening cars. A Jiffy Jack will open 80% of the cars on the road today - so it most likely would work on Casey's car. So yes, ANYONE can have access to anyone's car.

I'm sure LE checked for prints.

 

[Balthazar]

Seems to me so far that there hasn't been anyone that would hold up under scrutiny. After much discussion, I have to say that if there is someone else...other than the friends I'm sure she's willing to sacrifice for her freedom...they would have revealed it long ago. So what we may want to conclude is that this isn't a viable defense and JB will not attempt going this route.

It's too late for that now. The Defense has said (Paraphrased):

1. Casey's case is similar to the Sam Sheppard case. (Baden)

2. Casey is innocent. (Baez, Baden, Lyon) Note it is important that they are saying innocent as opposed to Not Guilty.

3. There is NO evidence against Casey. (Macaluso (I believe) - this was after last Thursday's hearing - he said this with a derisive snort when someone mentioned Casey's car - I am taking this to mean that Baden's team has come up with their own forensics proving the car is not tied to Caylee's death - can't wait to hear how this plays out in court.)

4. Casey should never have been arrested. (Baez)

 

[Balthazar]

Of course...but she could always have told the truth and let LE track down these SODI(s). Her daughter's life was at stake (according to Casey). Time was of the essence. Who better to help than Casey? We couldn't expect LE to be clairvoyant and know exactly who/where to look. They needed something (truthful) to go on. If she had information, then both she and her attorney decided to sacrifice Caylee...and for what?

Maybe, initially, Casey was expecting or hoping that the SOD would return Caylee and then she would be freed from jail. In the meantime, Baez had told her not to discuss anything with anyone so that she didn't accrue additional charges against herself. It is hard to guess why Baez didn't want her to talk to police on the day she was charged with murder and why they haven't talked to police since Caylee was found. Based on the last hearing it is obvious that Baez is insinuating that the police didn't do their job in this case and have not conducted a thorough investigation, so Baez is having to do it. On the one hand, this is part of casting reasonable doubt for his client or it could be that this is the truth. Everything released so far by the prosecution is focused entirely on Casey.

 

[cecybeans]

Maybe, initially, Casey was expecting or hoping that the SOD would return Caylee and then she would be freed from jail. In the meantime, Baez had told her not to discuss anything with anyone so that she didn't accrue additional charges against herself. It is hard to guess why Baez didn't want her to talk to police on the day she was charged with murder and why they haven't talked to police since Caylee was found. Based on the last hearing it is obvious that Baez is insinuating that the police didn't do their job in this case and have not conducted a thorough investigation, so Baez is having to do it. On the one hand, this is part of casting reasonable doubt for his client or it could be that this is the truth. Everything released so far by the prosecution is focused entirely on Casey.

If KC came clean and it got her off a murder rap, I doubt "additional charges" would be all that tough. A defense attorney with a client innocent of murder would most likely counsel her to plea to whatever charge she was guilty of rather than face a DP trial. Especially one with such a poor record in trying murder cases.

Baez may be using the typical trick in vogue with defense attorneys of casting aspersions on LE investigations. Good luck with that. This isn't Boulder, CO and this isn't OJ or Phil Spector (and that one didn't work out well in the end despite all the fancy forensic sleight of hand.)

He and his client have made so many sloppy amateurish mistakes it's hard to think that they will be able to manufacture any reasonable doubt or have the skill to follow through with one if they managed to find it. I think it will take a jury about five minutes to see this emperor has no clothes.

 

[Brini]

It is very easy to gain access to someone's car. That's why car thieves and lock smiths are so prolific and successful around the world. In addition, it is reasonable to assume that more than one person had a key to Casey's car. The extra key might have been stolen and the theft gone unnoticed or she may have given a key to someone in case she locked herself out of her car. She may have even had a hide-a-key somewhere. We really don't know about her car key situation at all. The fact is anyone can buy a Locksmith Tool set or a Jiffy Jack for opening cars. A Jiffy Jack will open 80% of the cars on the road today - so it most likely would work on Casey's car. So yes, ANYONE can have access to anyone's car.

Well, her family's contention is that someone put Caylee's body into KC's trunk while the car was in the tow yard.

Which means that said person had access. They also climbed over a high, wire fence carrying the baby's decomposing body, placed the body in KC's trunk, then climbed back over, without being noticed from the street.

How do we know that she gave her car key to anyone, and to whom did she give it?

Who is this SODDI, and what evidence do we have against him/her?

 

[Brini]

Yes, but she has chosen to follow her attorney's advice. She does have the right to do that, you know.

Of course she does! But, if she has chosen to follow her atty's advice, she is not being coerced or constrained.

 

[Brini]

Maybe, initially, Casey was expecting or hoping that the SOD would return Caylee and then she would be freed from jail. In the meantime, Baez had told her not to discuss anything with anyone so that she didn't accrue additional charges against herself. It is hard to guess why Baez didn't want her to talk to police on the day she was charged with murder and why they haven't talked to police since Caylee was found. Based on the last hearing it is obvious that Baez is insinuating that the police didn't do their job in this case and have not conducted a thorough investigation, so Baez is having to do it. On the one hand, this is part of casting reasonable doubt for his client or it could be that this is the truth. Everything released so far by the prosecution is focused entirely on Casey.

Of course! All of the evidence points to KC, and to no one else.

She had her dead child's body in her car for days, Princess. How incriminating is that?

 

[Brini]

It's too late for that now. The Defense has said (Paraphrased):

1. Casey's case is similar to the Sam Sheppard case. (Baden)

2. Casey is innocent. (Baez, Baden, Lyon) Note it is important that they are saying innocent as opposed to Not Guilty.

3. There is NO evidence against Casey. (Macaluso (I believe) - this was after last Thursday's hearing - he said this with a derisive snort when someone mentioned Casey's car - I am taking this to mean that Baden's team has come up with their own forensics proving the car is not tied to Caylee's death - can't wait to hear how this plays out in court.)

4. Casey should never have been arrested. (Baez)

HOW is KC's case similar to Sam Sheppard's? In Sheppard's day, we did not have DNA technology. If we had, Sheppard would not have been incarcerated.

Modern DNA tech is a significant evidence that indicted KC. She had her dead child's body in the car, for several days.

Of COURSE they said that other stuff. They are the defense. Their forensics will have to be better than those of the FBI. The FBI has one of the finest labs in the world.

KC is guilty, and she's gonna go down. She murdered a helpless toddler.

 

[Brini]

Read the interviews of all the subjects that LE met with and consider if they are deeply detailed focusing on the subject being interviewed or if they focused on Casey. It is very plain that LE fixed upon Casey the day they first met her and focused heavily on her in all interviews. While they may have considered other suspects briefly, perhaps as conspirators, LE did not research others in the kind of detail they subjected Casey to. This is because they arrested her so quickly that she hired a lawyer and stopped speaking to LE. Unfortunately, situations like this can be used by attorneys to create reasonable doubt in juries minds.

Other people didn't have Caylee, and were not responsible for Caylee. Other people did not make of stories of a kidnapping by a non-existent nannie. Other people did not take LE on wild goose chases, and lie about every, single thing. The other people, her social group, volunteered to talk to LE, told the truth, and volunteered to take polygraph tests. They cooperated voluntarily. KC did not.

Most significantly, other people did not drive around with the baby's corpse in the trunk of the car. Lying and driving with a dead body in the car is not something that innocent people do.

Sad to say, princess. But, LE has been focused on KC, because all of the evidence is against KC. None of the evidence implicated anyone else. No one. There is no evidence against anyone else, honey. Just KC.

Those are not just the findings of local LE. The FBI also did not find that anyone else is implicated. That's state AND federal law enforcement. The FBI is considered one of the finest law enforcement agencies in the world.

 

[Brini]

No offense, but why are you trying to prove Caylee is the ONLY suspect on a thread to discuss what the SODDI defense might be?

Maybe I haven't made myself clear. I do think that Casey probably committed this crime (although I will NOT make up my mind until I have heard the prosecution and defense cases at the trial.) It is apparent that the defense team is going to use several different aspects of the way the entire case was handled to create reasonable doubt. So, what I'm doing is trying to examine what the areas of weakness are. I do think there is room for there to be viable and believable alternate perps in this case - it's all going to depend on what Casey has told Baez and Co. I thought we were trying to determine what it might be that she has told Baez and what the defense was going to present at the trial - not debate the prosecution case as opposed to the defense case. I think this is where these types of threads have gotten off track in the past and I hope we can get back on track and examine the SODDI Defense - as the thread is titled.

But, we have not yet heard whom you suspect, and what evidence there is that could implicate that person.

Who is your SODDI, and what is the evidence? Thanks!

 

[Brini]

The main problem I can see is proving KC is the ONLY one who could have done it. We have not seen any evidence that her fingerprints were on the duct tape as of yet and no actual evidence that SHE placed the body in the trunk. I still think she's guilty but the defense is going to argue that anyone could have access to her car. IF there is any fingerprint evidence we won't find out until trial probably. If LE has that then there's the direct link. Without it, there could be reasonable doubt. I think they will try to discredit forensics. They have no need to provide an alternate theory, just reasonable doubt---things like previous searches in the area the body was found with no results.

Which still leaves the questions of why she did not report Caylee missing? Why she lied, and continues to lie? And, why did she have her child's decomposing DNA in her trunk?

Those issues have to be dealt with by the defense, because they are critically incriminating. The defense's SODDI theory has to be strong enough and supported enough to counter-balance the evidence that directly implicates KC.

When reasonable doubt is discussed, the operant word is "reasonable."

BTW, re: earlier searches in the same area: during much of the search time, that area was under water.

 

[Phumi]

Well it would make sense that LE considered the people that were questioned with a lie dectector test as possible suspects.

True--but we can't assume they were the only possible suspects. Some possile suspets may have refused to take a test--like the entire Anthony family.

 

[Phumi]

Evidence pointing did not tie Casey to the deed. it was just pointing. I do not think anyone is looking for any SODDI
I think with the new attorney they will just try to confuse the entire case and get Casey off. ONLY OBJECTIVE.:furious:
Where is the justice for Caylee

The pointing was strong enough to justify an arrest. There was a very good chance that KC would flee and that her family would help her do it. It's not all on the police. The Grand Jury indicted her. It's up to the jury to decide if the evidence ties her to the crime strongly enough. I am confident that if there were ANY indication of SOD the police would have followed it. Both the Anthony's and the defense have PI's working for them. They would have turned up some evidence of SOD by now if there were one.