The Suitcase - Duvet, Sham & Dr. Suess

[midwest mama]

Just curious. Would the suitcase have fit through the window? I know JR said he fit, so I guess the case would, but I was just wondering.

Thomas' book, pg 164 said the suitcase would not fit through the window.

 

[dodie20]

Thomas' book, pg 164 said the suitcase would not fit through the window.

' hence' the adequate sized attache, that seemed to be weighing on the ransom note author's mind, maybe?

 

[DeeDee249]

1 thing with the chronology that doesn't fit, is PR getting made up and dressed in the same clothes she wore the night before. So, there's some obvious time that can be cut off from the timeline. Also, JR said she was in bed when he got up, and that's obviously not true, unless he saw her laying there still fully clothed.

I must have missed that in JR's statement. I thought he was asked if he saw Patsy, and he had said no, implying that she had already gotten up.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,
Not certain what a comforter is myself. I do not regard the objects in the suitcase that suspicious. The suitcase might have played no role.

Its the presence of JonBenet's White Gap Top fibers, allegedly on objects in the suitcase, that is important. Since it does not seem JR's version of events and the fiber transfer match up?

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I have friends "across the pond" in the UK, and they also are unfamiliar with the word "comforter". They call their bedcover a "duvet" and this means a fabric cover for a (usually) down-filled, fluffy bedcover. Here, we have something called a "comforter" which does not need another covering, although it CAN also be covered with a duvet. This cuts down on laundering for the comforter, because only the duvet needs to be laundered.

 

[dodie20]

I must have missed that in JR's statement. I thought he was asked if he saw Patsy, and he had said no, implying that she had already gotten up.

I may be wrong, because I've read so many transcripts in the last few days, they're all kind of running together. But, I think I read it in a police interview, where he was describing getting up before the alarm and taking a shower.

 

[dodie20]

TT: And, I might have missed this, I didn’t catch it on my notes, you got out of bed first that morning, did you get out or did she get out? JR: I got up first. (This isn't exactly what I was remembering, but it's along the same lines).

 

[UKGuy]

Thomas' book, pg 164 said the suitcase would not fit through the window.

midwest mama,

Just curious. Would the suitcase have fit through the window? I know JR said he fit, so I guess the case would, but I was just wondering.

Nice, very nice indeed. So we now have a reason for abandoning this staging model.

If there are fibers from the White Gap Top on any object in that suitcase then I'll bet the house on the suitcase being intended as staging for the removal of JonBenet from the house, and indirectly with the broken window as a means of entry?



.

 

[UKGuy]

I have friends "across the pond" in the UK, and they also are unfamiliar with the word "comforter". They call their bedcover a "duvet" and this means a fabric cover for a (usually) down-filled, fluffy bedcover. Here, we have something called a "comforter" which does not need another covering, although it CAN also be covered with a duvet. This cuts down on laundering for the comforter, because only the duvet needs to be laundered.

DeeDee249,
aha, I see. Thanks for outlining the difference. We use scandinavian down-filled duvet's in our house, they transform bed making from a chore to a shake of the hands, lol.


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[UKGuy]

I know timelines discussed at length before, and I do acknowledge considering the significance of everything, especially if her fibers are in the suitcase.

But if timeline suggests people there around 3 am or sometime before 5:30, then we should probably start considering more people in on the staging than just Patsy and John.... Especially when you read John Fernie's statement about his arrival that morning, and going to the back door and seeing the note inside the house laid out on the floor through the doors and being able to read it through the doors. Others have commented before about his 'eagle vision' and how it doesn't make sense...

I'm just saying if people really were there that early, we have not been factoring them into the scenarios - whether for staging, or other reasons... And what it means for the crime - why Ramseys might feel comfortable calling close friends at night to help, or if a few close friends were already over late, and something happened while they were still there...

Whaleshark,
No doubt it might have taken place, it would explain the unused period of time after JonBenet being whacked. Although maybe not the relatively amateurish abduction staging?

.

 

[ozazure]

I wonder too if it isn't just a set like in a hotel room, that covers the bed to look nice (well not IMO) but is scratchy on the underside and not warm ... it fits with the look of the Ramsey house but it is something that could be discarded in a suitcase for months because it isn't functional bedding. I think it could have been trialled as part of the staging, before the clean white blanket was chosen as more appropriate. Who was likely to know what was in it? I would say John wouldn't be, but given he said he moved it from laundry to laundry I think there's a chance he would have looked inside. Did he get frustrated with the sloppy housecleaning?

It is interesting to me, way back at the start of this thread when describing the Gap top that Patsy starts with the (unremarkable) neck line of the garment.

 

[Charterhouse]

I don't know how to do this. This was in the WS thread about something like "What was the war about" regarding JR and FW. This was post #8.

This mentions that people were there (I assume the R house at 3:00 a.m.) Was this ever confirmed? And I was wondering where it came from. I just can't seem to find it anywhere else.

Sorry, if I am not allowed to move this information around or quote it like this. If not, please remove.

I thought it was interesting at least someone (I think JR), sometime(?) said that there were people at the house at 3:00 a.m.

And I do believe if FW would talk we would know a lot more. I think he knows a lot more than he is saying.

It seems like FW may have wanted to just come out and SAY that he thought the Rs were involved in the death of their daughter, but my impression is that he knew that if he did, the Rs would be much more vocal in pointing a finger at HIM for the murder. The Rs were already making noise about things that "looking back on" they told LE were suspicious about the White's behavior Christmas Day. Of course, the "suspicious" things were nonsense- it was JR who ASKED that a plate of cracked crab be held out for JB. Yet he tells LE how odd he thought it was. No one in LE ever confronted JR about this either. And I'd bet NO one at the house in Atlanta was ever asked specifically about EXACTLY what words were exchanged between JR and FW.
FW was in the Boulder house the morning of the 26th, his prints were all over. He admitted moving the suitcase. He TOUCHED things related to the crime, including admitting that he picked up the tape that was on JB's mouth.
While those things may not have been enough to convict him, or even indict him, he doesn't match the touch DNA either, so it may not have gone very far.

BUT enough to destroy his life, a fact I am sure strongly pointed out to him by the R defense lawyers.

I think FW felt he really couldn't say what he felt happened. He hoped the investigation would sort it out. Boy, was he wrong...
BTW, I'd have LOVED to see LE call JR out about exactly WHO was included in his statement that "a lot of people were here at 3 in the morning." Because according to the Rs, only 4 people were in the house at 3 in the morning.. a sleeping JR, Patsy, BR and a (by then, dead) JB.

 

[cynic]

Everyone is relying on the transcribed version of the LKL interview for the veracity of the 3AM remark, but we don’t have to. The interview is on YouTube.
The transcription is as follows:
KING: The others had left?
J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.
KING: It was a blur to you?
http://www-cgi.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

I believe it should be:
KING: The others had left?
J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there EARLY in the morning.
KING: It was a blur to you?

Listen for yourselves:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Orq4yK3mI"]RLKL 3AM - YouTube[/ame]

Here is the relevant section with the audio slowed down:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsJMFKRDG0k"]LKL R Audio - YouTube[/ame]

Edited to add:

Here is the section slowed and enhanced further, and looped 5 times:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-K9eOXGbpA"]EarlyJRLKL - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Charterhouse]

Thanks Cynic especially for the slowed down version.

Unfortunately I still can't tell what it said.

 

[cynic]

Thanks Cynic especially for the slowed down version.

Unfortunately I still can't tell what it said.

I added one more clip to my previous post, have a listen.

 

[UKGuy]

OK so we seem to have Fernie and JR making inconsistent statements with regard to the agreed timeline.

Either both have made simple mistakes, since JR has mixed his time up and Fernie an object he says he viewed?

Both can be wrong and not affect the theoretical timeline since they refer to different things.

Assuming JR is correct then someone being there, apart from making more sense of some evidence, i.e. the flashlight being wiped down etc, it does not explain why the staging is not better?

Or might the change of Staging Plan be attributed to say a Non-Ramsey, i.e. speculating Dr Beuf?

I base this on the apparent decision of the R's not to dial 911 and request medical assistance for JonBenet.

So maybe they used the JR's cellphone and phoned Dr. Beuf?


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[dodie20]

I wonder too if it isn't just a set like in a hotel room, that covers the bed to look nice (well not IMO) but is scratchy on the underside and not warm ... it fits with the look of the Ramsey house but it is something that could be discarded in a suitcase for months because it isn't functional bedding. I think it could have been trialled as part of the staging, before the clean white blanket was chosen as more appropriate. Who was likely to know what was in it? I would say John wouldn't be, but given he said he moved it from laundry to laundry I think there's a chance he would have looked inside. Did he get frustrated with the sloppy housecleaning?

It is interesting to me, way back at the start of this thread when describing the Gap top that Patsy starts with the (unremarkable) neck line of the garment.

I'm glad you brought that up, because it bugged me too. What Was PR's fixation with necklines? It has been reported that JB was strangled with a shirt 1st, so could this be it? PR distancing herself from the strangulation? There was also the riff over JB not wanting to wear the red turtleneck that evening, and then she was strangled with the garotte and then the ransom note writer threatened to behead her. So much focus on JB's neck area.

 

[BOESP]

I'm glad you brought that up, because it bugged me too. What Was PR's fixation with necklines? It has been reported that JB was strangled with a shirt 1st, so could this be it? PR distancing herself from the strangulation? There was also the riff over JB not wanting to wear the red turtleneck that evening, and then she was strangled with the garotte and then the ransom note writer threatened to behead her. So much focus on JB's neck area.

Have you seen the photo of Patsy kneeling at JonBenet's grave while Patsy clutchers her own throat? If not, go to [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?p=194365#post194365"]John Ramsey's New Book - The Other Side of Suffering - Page 29 - Forums For Justice[/ame] and look at Riverrat's avatar.

 

[dodie20]

Have you seen the photo of Patsy kneeling at JonBenet's grave while Patsy clutchers her own throat? If not, go to John Ramsey's New Book - The Other Side of Suffering - Page 29 - Forums For Justice and look at Riverrat's avatar.

omg, she looks like she is strangling herself. I had seen this picture, but never studied it very closely. I googled and saw another picture, probably snapped right before this one, where 1 hand is on the grave and the other is grabbing her shirt collar. Her face has a day-dreamy expression. Her expression in the picture you linked, freaked me out a little. Was she sobbing or what?

 

[BOESP]

omg, she looks like she is strangling herself. I had seen this picture, but never studied it very closely. I googled and saw another picture, probably snapped right before this one, where 1 hand is on the grave and the other is grabbing her shirt collar. Her face has a day-dreamy expression. Her expression in the picture you linked, freaked me out a little. Was she sobbing or what?

I don't know Dodie. I can't imagine wanting a photo of me at my child's grave, especially one like that if my child had been strangled!

That was one strange family and it seems to me it was all about Patsy. You don't hear much of anything now that she's gone.

 

[midwest mama]

I added one more clip to my previous post, have a listen.

Thank you Cynic! I listened several times to each version, and watched JR's lips, and I think I hear/see "so early". I would swear I clearly hear the "L" sound in the word 'early' in the slowest version.