The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[gitana1]

You know, I've got some thoughts here.

I read through those texts, and yes, while they're not pretty, I actually expected far worse.

I keep going back to TH's frame of mind at the time. What would be stressors going on to create this sort of reaction?

Her stepson, who she raised from toddlerhood, is missing. Huge stressor right there.

Husband left. Panic over survival - how will she actually get a roof over her head, food in her belly? Gas in the car? Survival time...huge stressor there.

Husband left and took her other child, a baby. Horrific issue right there. Biggest stressor in the bunch, as baby is not yet grown enough to get a coat on if she's cold or grab some food if she's hungry. Baby's still very, very vulnerable.

Being scrutinized by LE (and every Tom, Dick and Harry) about her demeanor, her clothing, her looks, her weight, her silence, her polygraphs...

Feeling like she can't talk to anyone without being overheard. Feeling like she can't go anywhere without it causing a media explosion. Feeling cut off from the world, feeling like she can't manage the least little thing...

Add to that the issues of an adopted person (general issues with rejection), a drinking issue, and quite likely an eating issue, and you've got someone who is, indeed, actually only "ugly coping."

She was under serious attack at the time - everyone who ever knew her was crawling out of the woodwork to say she was this, that or the other thing. Every moment of her life she expected to be arrested. Every breath she took was monitored. I see this as her cry of "someone please see me, love me, make me real and valid and comforted!" We all have those feelings, but most people can cope in ways that don't involve texting, and that's why I feel it's 'ugly coping.'

You know how 9 months after a blackout or some other significant natural disaster, the birth rate rises? Or how, after a family member dies, some folks turn to sex? I see this as the same thing.

Sometimes, in low self esteem, people use sex to validate their worth. They think if they can get a partner, they'll be "all right", or at least distracted enough from their crises to forget about things for a time. Promescuity is not relagated to only teens; it's throughout all ages. To have someone to share intimacy - sexual or otherwise - with is very important to a human being, and sometimes, acquiring that intimacy takes on some strange forms. TH was/is looking for something she's familiar with, and if it takes the form of sex, then that's what form it takes.

I honestly don't see these texts as much more than the above. I also see MC as not really participating...which had to be frustrating to TH, as well.

Just some thoughts other than mainstream here. She has some deepseated issues, to be sure...but I don't necessarily attribute the texts any weight, taking the entire thing into consideration.

Best-
Herding Cats

I don't now. I kind of think people who are not abnormal do not behave the way TH did with these texts. Yes, sex certainly happens in times of stress or immediately afterward, but this is not what I think of when I think of normal sex. This is *advertiser censored* filth to me. Especially under the circumstances. It's dirty. I would never imagine acting like that or speaking like that under any circumstances. Icky. But especially after a child I had raised went missing. It just doesn't seem normal to me. Not a normal reaction to such stressors.
The kind of sex I think that occurs after or in the midst of tragedy is the quiet reaching over to your significant other, or suddenly reaching out to someone else that you may not have been involved with before, in a desperate attempt to feel alive or in a subconscious attempt to make sure the species will continue even if you do not. This just is not that, to me. It's gross, it's over the top, it shows an apathy regarding the situation at hand and a complete disregard for the loss of a little child and the pain of the people who love him. I find it very, very creepy, in context.
Let me add that even though I would not act in such a way under any circumstances, I am not a prude. I could care less what two, consenting adults do in private if it hurts no one. So if I read about someone texting in such a manner in the absence of the context of a missing child, I'd think it was gross, yucky, and I'd probably feel embarrassed for the people involved. However, when you add the significant fact that this was occurring when her own child, the one she raised since he was a tiny baby, had been missing for only a few weeks, this makes zero sense to me. Now something that would have only grossed me out, appalls me because it seems that people who never met Kyron seem to be reacting with more horror to his disappearance than the woman who professed to care for him so, so much, for most of his little life. I just can't justify this in any way.

 

[stmarysmead]

I agree, ugly coping is certainly a possibility.

TMH is certainly not the last person to have a rebound affair after a breakup and she won't be the last.

In times of stress, people shed IQ points like crazy.

In a sense, I feel sorry for TMH because she obviously had some level of trust in MC that was misplaced.

Trust?

I see a pattern of manipulation. And a towering self confidence that Terri presumed herself irresistible.

Ugly Coping?

As she did with the Landscaper months before? Again, if this were just done THIS time. But "something similar" was done as Terri spent her days playing on the computer, flirting at the gym, driving around for fun, drinking at night...while Kaine worked to pay for a nice home, gym fees, little sports car, birthday parties, and put food in her belly. There are many people with hard desperate lives...who don't need "sex, power,and plots to kill"....to "cope." They just put one foot in front of the other.

I don't think it's "trust" with Terri...it's believing in your own power over others...your superiority. Sex is Terri's area of expertise...she TOLD us. It's her trump card in regard to manipulation.

Remember Desiree's comment that all those years ago, she could not understand why Kaine picked Terri over his wife and new Baby. Well, I think after reading these texts..she and the rest of us...understand how Terri operates...and just how that probably came to be.

I think when one is dealing these days with terrible crimes, like the disappearance of a child, people are really, really tired of the excuse machine that pumps out phrases like "ugly coping."

Once again, it implies no one has any responsibility for anything. Maybe the 9-11 Terrorists were "ugly coping" with their problems back home.... maybe a guy who beats his wife (poor dear) is "ugly coping" because of problems at work...the guys who burned the Connecticut family alive were "ugly coping" for their money problems.

Boo Hoo. The rest of us find ways to cope that don't result in destroying other people's lives. In Terri's life, "shedding IQ points" seem to lead from sex to violence. Solicting murder...disappearing child.

And, like Casey Anthony, the child that is endangered, missing...seems to be written off so easily by Terri. They are both instantly moving into The Good Life...."Bella Vita", wasn't it? That's how they roll. Those who ask..."Where is KYRON?"...don't look for him in Terri's heart and mind even back in the early days.

The fact that the Murder for Hire failed...provided Terri with a golden Second Chance. If any time after the Landscaper turned her down, her love for her kids or her HUMANITY had been in ascendancy...she had months to seek help, months to find other ways to "cope"...rather than just keep doing "similar things" that eventually led to tragedy. I hope, at trial, the prosecutors argue that. How the failed plot to Murder her husband gave her months to reflect, to get help, to make changes. Instead...she turned her murderous intent to Kyron. A helpless little boy, whose death she could manage without hiring any one.

 

[cluciano63]

I know it is an unpopular view, but I will believe in the murder for hire business when Terri is charged for it. I am not going to assume it is a fact until LE comes out and says so in public. Of course they would have to warn Kaine if the LS told them this, as they would be remiss not to. He then could and did take actions he felt to be appropriate. But that does not make the whole thing true.

As far as the sexting, I don't think it proves anything as far as Kyron goes. I am still going to wait for evidence of a particular crime.

 

[ami]

Re: How does this help us find Kyron...

I keep thinking about this. The truth is we can't know which piece of evidence will lead folks closer to finding him. I'm not LE and my knowledge comes from reading things like this board and true crime books and biographies of criminal profilers, watching 48 hours mystery, things like that. But in every single case, LE looks carefully at their suspect in terms of ... well, pretty much everything.

For instance they look at their bank accounts going several years back. Were they financially strapped? Any new income coming in? A single large deposit or withdrawal? Etc. Will the spending habits of the suspect find the missing person? Perhaps not. But it starts giving LE their "profile" and letting them get to know the person who is now sitting closedmouthed behind their attorney.

Same goes for their state of mind: what was it? how can you know what someone's state of mind is before, during, and after the days the child went missing? You look at stuff they read, and wrote, the people they called, the things they chose to spend their time doing. What words did they choose to use, what were their beliefs about themselves, how did they interact with others? Will all of those answers recover the missing person? They don't know, which is why they follow each of them and compare them to what we would consider normal behavior.

I honestly don't think LE is shocked with Terri's aggressive sexting in and of itself. I've sexted my husband, most of LE has probably exchanged racy words with their significant others through some medium, most people have had our own feisty exchanges. I don't think it's that.

Remove the sex from it because sex is emotionally charged and just call it behavior X. Here's a square that represents 100% of human experiences. Here's the portion of that square in which behavior X is considered socially appropriate. The suspect displayed behavior X outside of what we would consider socially appropriate boundaries. Period. It's a piece of data.

You know like Scott Peterson buying *advertiser censored* channels days after his wife's disappearance. Was there anything wrong with a man watching *advertiser censored*? Nope. Anything illegal? Nope. It was just the context: his pregnant wife is missing, he's acting "weird", his words are "off" and he's hooking up *advertiser censored* channels to watch at night, while Laci's mother cannot eat for fear and grief and volunteer search boats are getting half knocked over in the cold waves of the Bay side scan sonar-ing for a body. In the end, these things helped condemn him.

In fact, I hate how many similarities I can see between these two cases.

Well... in and of itself, unless we're talking about the crime itself or similar crimes, I don't think any one piece of data will necessarily lead to Kyron. I think in this case finding him will require luck or triangulation between what might have looked like unconnected pieces of data.

 

[stmarysmead]

I don't care if it is an unpopular view, but I will believe in the murder for hire business when Terri is charged for it. I am not going to assume it is a fact until LE comes out and says so in public. Of course they would have to warn Kaine if the LS told them this, as they would be remiss not to. He then could and did take actions he felt to be appropriate. But that does not make the whole thing true.

As far as the sexting, I don't think it proves anything as far as Kyron goes. I am still going to wait for evidence of a particular crime.

The purpose of a place like this is trying to understand all POVs...and the unpopular ones, in their way, may be more important to express than the popular ones....because they discipline us to hone our thinking. So I thank you for expressing your point of view.

I firmly believe there is substance to the Murder for Hire for a few reasons.

One, I believe that Kaine was staunchly in Terri's corner when Kyron disappeared. I think his "warning" to his coworkers and his shunning of certain media...was instigated by her angst over what she was reading online. He may have been well aware of her drinking problems,but it must have seemed fantastical to him that this woman he lived, slept, and had a child with...could murder or "disappear" his little boy.

I think for any of us...that is a huge concept to get our arms around. So I think Kaine thought as YOU do...and would not have been easily convinced. Plus he is an engineer...they are wired for facts...not emotions. Desiree may have bought in to Terri's culpability early...but Kaine would need facts. I think LE would have to have some real hard data to convince him.

And they did.

And HE convinced a judge to give him a restraining order and keep Terri from Baby K.

And Terri, to this day, has never refuted the Murder for Hire...would she allow a "vague comment" to keep her from her daughter? Something easily refuted that would embarrass LE and Kaine?

Furthermore, the mention of "parallel criminal investigations" in Terri's attorney's filing...indicates that either the Murder For Hire is still a viable, ongoing, credible investigation...or Terri has some new criminal troubles.

That's a heck of a lot going on for hearsay or "vague comment" or any other dismissive phrase.

And...just my opinion too, of course.

 

[cluciano63]

I did not refer to the MFH as a vague comment or hearsay. Just said I do not yet have a firm belief in the validity of it. I do believe that LE fully intended to arrest Terri on the day of the "sting", if they could have done so. And I have no doubts that to Kaine, this was a confirmation to bad feelings he was already having about Terri-I don't think it was the only reason for the divorce at all. Clearly, this marriage was a disaster, he already had his doubts about Terri re: Kyron, and this gave him the official reason he needed/wanted to take his baby and leave (in my opinion). No one could fault him for leaving her, when it was said that she wanted him dead.

But if it is true that she never fully denied outright that she had nothing to do with Kyron, then anything he said about Terri being just as involved and invested in finding Kyron up until June 25th is not true. I think that by the time of the first press conference with the four parents, he doubted her, but did not know how to deal with it.

And the sexting...to me just shows a very messed-up woman, looking for some excitement while she is, in her mind, under "house arrest" more or less and getting a charge out of what she sees as a man flirting with her. Not appropriate, not "normal" and not tasteful, but not evidence of a kidnapping or murder, either.

It is my dearest hope that when and if LE makes their case, it will be so solid, they won't need this type of "frame of mind" circumstantial evidence. But I don't believe they will be able to make the kind of case that will be built on solid physical evidence. And I really don't believe that anything gleaned from the divorce action will be of use in ever finding Kyron. And I am sad about that.

 

[ami]

I did not refer to the MFH as a vague comment or hearsay. Just said I do not yet have a firm belief in the validity of it. I do believe that LE fully intended to arrest Terri on the day of the "sting", if they could have done so. And I have no doubts that to Kaine, this was a confirmation to bad feelings he was already having about Terri-I don't think it was the only reason for the divorce at all. Clearly, this marriage was a disaster, he already had his doubts about Terri re: Kyron, and this gave him the official reason he needed/wanted to take his baby and leave (in my opinion). No one could fault him for leaving her, when it was said that she wanted him dead.

But if it is true that she never fully denied outright that she had nothing to do with Kyron, then anything he said about Terri being just as involved and invested in finding Kyron up until June 25th is not true. I think that by the time of the first press conference with the four parents, he doubted her, but did not know how to deal with it.

And the sexting...to me just shows a very messed-up woman, looking for some excitement while she is, in her mind, under "house arrest" more or less and getting a charge out of what she sees as a man flirting with her. Not appropriate, not "normal" and not tasteful, but not evidence of a kidnapping or murder, either.

It is my dearest hope that when and if LE makes their case, it will be so solid, they won't need this type of "frame of mind" circumstantial evidence. But I don't believe they will be able to make the kind of case that will be built on solid physical evidence. And I really don't believe that anything gleaned from the divorce action will be of use in ever finding Kyron. And I am sad about that.

But what if it IS of use? Shouldn't Kaine and LE try absolutely everything in their power to find him, just in case? Should they not follow things that might lead to him, simply because they also might not lead to him?

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

If Terri is innocent of the charge of Murder for Hire that would could hold her back from fighting the PO? She didn't do it and Kanie can just bring it on??!! Right? :waitasec: See she could of forced them to present their so called evidence..easy peasy right?

Additionally, Terri and her lawyers forced Kaine and his lawyers to do a little show and tell without them once showing anything. They had the sex text sealed at one point. It was even stated that it was not their intention to cause embaressment to any party in the matter.

Also, I feel strongly that if she copes ugly (I see a flash of CA there for a second) then she should have a mental health evaluation.

IMOO, i notice that little evidence is needed when a man's behavior is suspect or unsual for some to jump all over it without any need for additional information. Terri has refused. I mean REFUSED to give any information, sign any document to assist herself. She probally feels powerful now. Noone can "arm wressle" anything from her. I say to Terri, Well you go girl.... to avoid potential time out issues, I just wont tell her where! :crazy:

 

[Jo in Calif]

Really? Wouldn't it be a good thing for the Baby to see her Mama, and a good thing for TH to see her Baby? I think it would lessen the stressors in TH's life, not increase them.

As for major professional help, I think she sure could use it. I think Kaine, Desiree, and other parties to all of this could use it, frankly. This is going to get really messy (more than it is already), and everyone needs a safe place to go and let things out.

Best-
Herding Cats

If Terri has so many stressors going on in her life, people are saying a multitude of conditions going on with Terri, could be causing her to be acting the way she does.
Could anyone say with 100% certainty, that if Terri was granted , even supervised visitation, with that baby, she could not just say to herself, I have nothing to live for, everything has been taken away from me, Kaine caused all of this and snap that baby's neck?

 

[Dee10]

If Terri has so many stressors going on in her life, people are saying a multitude of conditions going on with Terri, could be causing her to be acting the way she does.
Could anyone say with 100% certainty, that if Terri was granted , even supervised visitation, with that baby, she could not just say to herself, I have nothing to live for, everything has been taken away from me, Kaine caused all of this and snap that baby's neck?

Yikes, that was a visual. If I were at Judge, at this stage of the case, I wouldn't take a chance. One thing to consider is her strength, she so brags about. I hope the Judge will put this off until January. I can't see the harm as TH has chose to wait this long.

 

[cluciano63]

But what if it IS of use? Shouldn't Kaine and LE try absolutely everything in their power to find him, just in case? Should they not follow things that might lead to him, simply because they also might not lead to him?

I did not say that the divorce should not move forward...just that I don't believe it will be any help in finding Kyron-and that it makes me sad. An opinion, and an emotion.

 

[Etilema]

If a man was doing what Terri was doing, people would just call him a sex addict or a . JMOO

Thanks is not enough. Your excerpted comment above points out how women are so frequently perceived to be passive victims, while men are the only ones who can actually be responsible for their own behavior.

JMO

 

[germaine]

Hi, TF.


Nope, not at all. I'm saying that sexting, whether we approve of it or not, is not a crime, nor is it evidence of any crime. The only thing it *might* be is a demonstration of how TH copes with things. Then again, it might not be.

Please don't think I'm saying that if someone finds this distasteful, they're prudish. Not at all.

Hi, Germaine.

Why do you think this is abberant/deviant behavior? because it's not something you'd do? Because it's not what people you know do? It's 'ugly coping', I've said, but I don't know that it's all that deviant or abberant...

See, deviant to me is pedophilia, necrophelia, et cetera. Abberant? I am not sure how you're using that in this context, but I'll bet a whole slew of nickels that there are a bunch of folks sexting each other all the time. So if you're using abberant to mean not typical, I can't agree here, either. If you're meaning 'not normal', then I think maybe you are not aware of just how widespread sexting actually is.

If you're referring to the timing, again, I think that there is something else she was looking for, and was able to get it this way...comfort, reassurance, something like that. Her world had just blown apart...wouldn't you want comfort then, too?

And lastly and MOST importantly, not one bit of this stuff is helping to find Kyron. And that, in the end, is the most important thing of all.

Where's Kyron?

Best-
Herding Cats

Hi HC,

I've written out two big long posts now that have both poofed with my internet connection. So I'll just say that they were brilliant, insightful and completely addressed all of your points lol

Seriously, I've now read all the other posts, and see my thoughts have been expressed for the most part. So I'll just put it out there that my pov is not based on naivete or prudishness. I've been around the block a time or twenty. I've done it myself and know plenty other of people who have And even if I don't know for sure, I'm not kidding myself that they haven't. Doesn't change my thoughts wrt to Terri's texting. To me, your posts suggests that those who are appalled by terri's behavior generally have some unrealistic or old-fashioned moral code when it comes to sexual behavior in general. I really don't think that's the case.

 

[germaine]

If Terri has so many stressors going on in her life, people are saying a multitude of conditions going on with Terri, could be causing her to be acting the way she does.
Could anyone say with 100% certainty, that if Terri was granted , even supervised visitation, with that baby, she could not just say to herself, I have nothing to live for, everything has been taken away from me, Kaine caused all of this and snap that baby's neck?

That's been one of my fears from the beginning of the visitation discussion. Whether she is innocent or not, she may be in a very bad place mentally. I fear for baby k if terri is desperate and mentally ill. I didn't type out what I thought could happen, but I'm glad you did. It speaks to the point made here over and over, that these are not just concepts in a vacuum. That *is* one of the dangers. And putting words to it helps us appreciate the real risk, not just the vague possibility that "something" might happen.

I also think if she's not supervised closely enough, she could take the baby and run. "supervised" visitation typically isn't supervised by armed guards, just regular people who may not be able to stop such a thing. Also, the setting is sometimes in public, like the park where that one dad absconded with his little boy. I posted links to several times recently where little ones have been kidnapped during supervised visitation.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Yikes, that was a visual. If I were at Judge, at this stage of the case, I wouldn't take a chance. One thing to consider is her strength, she so brags about. I hope the Judge will put this off until January. I can't see the harm as TH has chose to wait this long.

Yes it was a visual, and I agree with what you have to say.
Sometimes it takes a visual, as what I stated, nothing else seems to be enough of a visual, not even the texts.
I'm tired of the poor Terri, she needs to see her baby, so what if she seems to have 20 or so medical conditions that might be going on, it's not about Terri in the civil case, it's about 100% certainty that the baby is protected.

 

[gwenabob]

That's been one of my fears from the beginning of the visitation discussion. Whether she is innocent or not, she may be in a very bad place mentally. I fear for baby k if terri is desperate and mentally ill. I didn't type out what I thought could happen, but I'm glad you did. It speaks to the point made here over and over, that these are not just concepts in a vacuum. That *is* one of the dangers. And putting words to it helps us appreciate the real risk, not just the vague possibility that "something" might happen.

I also think if she's not supervised closely enough, she could take the baby and run. "supervised" visitation typically isn't supervised by armed guards, just regular people who may not be able to stop such a thing. Also, the setting is sometimes in public, like the park where that one dad absconded with his little boy. I posted links to several times recently where little ones have been kidnapped during supervised visitation.

Here in Multnomah County, a woman with mental issues was on a "supervised" visit with her daughter at a public park and she killed the daughter (and herself, I think--don't remember) while the "supervisor" was reading the paper. I don't trust "supervised visits" since then. I do not think Terri should have any kind of contact with Kiara at this time.

ETA: This was a few years ago, not recently.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Re: How does this help us find Kyron...

...Remove the sex from it because sex is emotionally charged and just call it behavior X. Here's a square that represents 100% of human experiences. Here's the portion of that square in which behavior X is considered socially appropriate. The suspect displayed behavior X outside of what we would consider socially appropriate boundaries. Period. It's a piece of data.

You know like Scott Peterson buying *advertiser censored* channels days after his wife's disappearance. Was there anything wrong with a man watching *advertiser censored*? Nope. Anything illegal? Nope. It was just the context: his pregnant wife is missing, he's acting "weird", his words are "off" and he's hooking up *advertiser censored* channels to watch at night, while Laci's mother cannot eat for fear and grief and volunteer search boats are getting half knocked over in the cold waves of the Bay side scan sonar-ing for a body. In the end, these things helped condemn him.

In fact, I hate how many similarities I can see between these two cases.

That is such a smart way to look at this, in my opinion. Not the action, but the context!!!

That is certainly how a Prosecutor will pitch this if/when this goes to a criminal jury.

I believe Terri is/was an exhibitionist with a narcissistic personality. That's no different from Madonna or Lady Gaga, except that they aren't involved in the disappearance of a child.

And TH is involved with Kyron's disappearance, no matter how much she may pretend otherwise.

 

[Emma Peel]

That is such a smart way to look at this, in my opinion. Not the action, but the context!!!

That is certainly how a Prosecutor will pitch this if/when this goes to a criminal jury.

I believe Terri is/was an exhibitionist with a narcissistic personality. That's no different from Madonna or Lady Gaga, except that they aren't involved in the disappearance of a child.

And TH is involved with Kyron's disappearance, no matter how much she may pretend otherwise.

On behalf of the enormously talented professional performing artists Madonna and Lady Gaga, I object to such comparisons.

May I, instead, offer up the former NY Governor as a possible substitute example for you?

On the other hand, I agree that in court, the sexting must be viewed and argued in context (context of Kyron's disappearance) to assert any seriously detached and possibly inappropriate emotional behavior demonstrated by this sexting behavior.

Then again, if Terri regularly sexted with acquaintances for "fun" in the year(s) prior to Kyron's disappearance, simply because sexting was her little dirty secret habit & hobby, :blushing: then that could also dilute the seriousness of it in this context as well.

The sexting goes to character, sexual proclivities, judgement, and emotional maturity issues, perhaps. However, the sexting is just not damnable evidence. Just because someone has an out-of-the-ordinary-smarmy sex life does not a murderer make (Eliott *cough*cough* Spitzer). :angel:

In conclusion it will be interesting to have more context on Terri's sexting in general. Because :yes: , as with so many things, context is everything.

 

[gitana1]

Here's one from 2008 where a woman stabbed her 15 year old son during a supervised visit at a psychiatrist's office:

"Police said when a nurse who was present at the meeting last weekend turned her head, Minardi took a 15-inch decorative dagger and a drywall knife out of her purse and began slashing her teen son."
http://crime.about.com/b/2008/03/31/mom-stabs-son-during-supervised-visit.htm

And here's the one I think you were talking about Gwenabob. It's from 2001:


"Police said Sharon Yvonne Weston made several failed attempts in a park on Wednesday during a supervised visit with Alexis Mariah Lopez, who had been put in foster care.
She finally succeeded, and then wheeled the body in a stroller to a nearby funeral home and told shocked mourners leaving a service that she had just killed her daughter."

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/31334_toddler14.shtml

Nothing is 100% safe but I really do think cases like these are very, very rare when considering the amount of supervised visits that take place every day in the U.S. I venture to guess that TH would be closely watched in such a situation. I doubt a monitor would drop the ball in such a high profile case. I'm sure she would have visits in an enclosed, secure facility.
I'm trying to gauge what would be best for the baby here, not TH. Does she indeed miss her mommy? Would she benefit from limited contact? Did she see something horrific such that visits may be traumatic? I don't know. I doubt it but I just don't know. I guess that's why there are hearings and why people who wants rights to their children participate, testify, subject themselves to the discovery process, child custody evaluations, depositions, etc., none of which TH is willing to participate in.
Nevertheless, the possibility of supervised visits does seem harmless for the most part and could be beneficial to Baby K. I'm interested to see what the judge will do.

 

[human]

I am wondering if TH is brought to trial and found guilty, what the situation would be.

Would Kaine be required to bring Kiara to prison to visit?

I think that Terri should submit to the evaluations and then someone can decide.

But I do wonder what it would mean that a relationship would be reestablished and then may be would be taken away if there is a conviction.

If there is a conviction, I just can't see Kaine being willing to drive the baby to prison to visit her mother.

Is there some kind of service that would do such a thing?