The Trailer: Who, When and How

[jash]

Maybe the trailer/truck was being left at DM's mother's house for someone else to pick up at a later date... someone who didn't have access to the hangar.

I thought that as well. The trailer was taken out to Kleinburg before the tattoo description even came out so it's not like he felt the heat turning up and took it there in a panic. So he must have had a reason to take it there. Maybe Kleinburg is close to, or on the way to, wherever TB's truck was going to end up.

But why wasn't the trailer picked up after a day or two? You'd think he wouldn't want the giant thing taking up his mother's driveway for long.

 

[ReignBRF]

Indeed. I wonder how quickly DM and his mechanic(s) could swap an engine and other related components including the fuel system (IIRC, DM's truck uses gas and TB's diesel). Judging by the mechanic's online posts about DM's other projects, he doesn't seem particularly quick.

If the red Ram was found without an operable engine, then I'd wonder how the trailer got to Kleinburg.

Remember at the beginning we did not know they were a chop shop. You have to think that there was an end consumer that wanted a constant supply of Dodge Ram parts and/or the whole vehicles shipped to Europe. If they got lazy or greedy then selling the whole truck would get quick cash compared to parting it out. When you start dealing with other shady people, the whole thing can mushroom.

 

[Kamille]

Remember at the beginning we did not know they were a chop shop. You have to think that there was an end consumer that wanted a constant supply of Dodge Ram parts and/or the whole vehicles shipped to Europe. If they got lazy or greedy then selling the whole truck would get quick cash compared to parting it out. When you start dealing with other shady people, the whole thing can mushroom.

I don't believe it's been established that anyone was operating a "chop shop" so to speak. DM had under 10 cars in that hangar, some in various forms of disrepair and lots of parts and other things including a dismantled stolen Harley that was worth about 30 grand before they took it apart. I'm sure there would be lots of "end comsumers" in Europe that would have taken it off his hands as is. Looks like they even kept the guy's trailer. I think it was his that was taken out of the hangar by LE.

But in the pictures you can see the different old cars that both DM and his friends seemed to have and enjoy. I've seen an old Mustang, Cougar, the Nova, an old large light blue convertible...maybe a Cadillac? Those old cars need new parts to get them up and running. Looks like from some of the older pictures at the original Pearson hangar they were just messing around with old cars for their own amusement and enjoyment.

MOO

 

[axe2grind]

I don't believe it's been established that anyone was operating a "chop shop" so to speak. DM had under 10 cars in that hangar, some in various forms of disrepair and lots of parts and other things including a dismantled stolen Harley that was worth about 30 grand before they took it apart. I'm sure there would be lots of "end comsumers" in Europe that would have taken it off his hands as is. Looks like they even kept the guy's trailer. I think it was his that was taken out of the hangar by LE.

But in the pictures you can see the different old cars that both DM and his friends seemed to have and enjoy. I've seen an old Mustang, Cougar, the Nova, an old large light blue convertible...maybe a Cadillac? Those old cars need new parts to get them up and running. Looks like from some of the older pictures at the original Pearson hangar they were just messing around with old cars for their own amusement and enjoyment.

MOO

It looks like they just went "shopping" when they wanted something and picked it up where ever they could. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that pretty much EVERYTHING in the hangar is suspected as being stolen. You mention an old Cadillac... I saw a very bad picture of a motor in one of the old hangars, 'OLDSMOBILE 454' or something like that on the top of the air breather. Maybe that's the car you thought was a Cadillac.

That's probably where some tension between DM and his dad could come form. In the old hangars at Pearson, there was plenty of room to mess around with old cars and store 'stuff', but the new hangar was all business space. No room for Dellen any more.

 

[THXGuru]

I don't believe it's been established that anyone was operating a "chop shop" so to speak. DM had under 10 cars in that hangar, some in various forms of disrepair and lots of parts and other things including a dismantled stolen Harley that was worth about 30 grand before they took it apart. I'm sure there would be lots of "end comsumers" in Europe that would have taken it off his hands as is. Looks like they even kept the guy's trailer. I think it was his that was taken out of the hangar by LE.

But in the pictures you can see the different old cars that both DM and his friends seemed to have and enjoy. I've seen an old Mustang, Cougar, the Nova, an old large light blue convertible...maybe a Cadillac? Those old cars need new parts to get them up and running. Looks like from some of the older pictures at the original Pearson hangar they were just messing around with old cars for their own amusement and enjoyment.

MOO

I am sure it is quite possible that DM purchased the Harley and cars from someone who in turn stole them....but nevertheless, it does not look good when you have the stolen ram at the mothers and body of the ram owner on your property. moo

 

[Kamille]

I am sure it is quite possible that DM purchased the Harley and cars from someone who in turn stole them....but nevertheless, it does not look good when you have the stolen ram at the mothers and body of the ram owner on your property. moo

Well no, I didn't think that DM purchased that Harley, I think he stole it. Towed it right out of the guy's driveway in the guy's own trailer. Question is why? Because he could? He obviously had no end plan for it. Unless you can use Harley parts in small personal helicopters?

I don't think DM purchased anything. I think he liked the sport of the "take". But I don't think it was for the purpose of running an actual chop shop. Just for his own personal "entertainment".

MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

Don't forget the stolen Harley trailer was registered as a homemade trailer "within hours" of the theft. That means LE knows who registered it.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I am sure it is quite possible that DM purchased the Harley and cars from someone who in turn stole them....but nevertheless, it does not look good when you have the stolen ram at the mothers and body of the ram owner on your property. moo

Well you know the thing that gets me:

One of the vehicles was a $35,000 Harley Davidson motorcycle advertised on Kijiji last fall. The bike was MMD's and it sat inside his trailer when both were stolen from the driveway behind his home on King Street East in Toronto shortly after he pulled the advertisement.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3250204-murder-suspect-s-waterloo-hangar-set-up-as-chop-shop-/

There you have enough info to look up the guy's coordinates. Then map DM's 2 condos at 70 Distillery Lane: see attached Google map.

The Harley was totally in the neighbourhood of DM and it could easily have been, he saw it in his travels, marvelled how simple it would be to hook that trailer up and drive away with it, one day he did so and took it up to the hangar and opened it like a Christmas present. moo.

For me the Harley was a turning point. It was stolen so close to DM's condo, and it was such a simple to execute crime, and it ended up in the hangar, and it showed a pattern of vehicle theft...it seems entirely plausible that DM could have been involved, with very negative implications to him in the case.

 

[THXGuru]

Well no, I didn't think that DM purchased that Harley, I think he stole it. Towed it right out of the guy's driveway in the guy's own trailer. Question is why? Because he could? He obviously had no end plan for it. Unless you can use Harley parts in small personal helicopters?

I don't think DM purchased anything. I think he liked the sport of the "take". But I don't think it was for the purpose of running an actual chop shop. Just for his own personal "entertainment".

MOO

Well you know the thing that gets me:

One of the vehicles was a $35,000 Harley Davidson motorcycle advertised on Kijiji last fall. The bike was MMD's and it sat inside his trailer when both were stolen from the driveway behind his home on King Street East in Toronto shortly after he pulled the advertisement.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3250204-murder-suspect-s-waterloo-hangar-set-up-as-chop-shop-/

There you have enough info to look up the guy's coordinates. Then map DM's 2 condos at 70 Distillery Lane: see attached Google map.

The Harley was totally in the neighbourhood of DM and it could easily have been, he saw it in his travels, marvelled how simple it would be to hook that trailer up and drive away with it, one day he did so and took it up to the hangar and opened it like a Christmas present. moo.

For me the Harley was a turning point. It was stolen so close to DM's condo, and it was such a simple to execute crime, and it ended up in the hangar, and it showed a pattern of vehicle theft...it seems entirely plausible that DM could have been involved, with very negative implications to him in the case.

Well, I still wonder how a man with his means would want to steal a item like a Harley, now, if he has a chop shop running, he is likely making mark ups on the parts etc. I am sure when the dust settles, we might see how these items were sold and where they were sold to.

It is a pretty good alibi saying that he simply has the means to buy it, why would he steal it....but then again, DM would have to prove that he had purchased it from someone who might of stole it.

With him closing up Millard Air, DM would need some sort of income and the chop shop would be it. JMO.

 

[Archangel7]

Well you know the thing that gets me:

One of the vehicles was a $35,000 Harley Davidson motorcycle advertised on Kijiji last fall. The bike was MMD's and it sat inside his trailer when both were stolen from the driveway behind his home on King Street East in Toronto shortly after he pulled the advertisement.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3250204-murder-suspect-s-waterloo-hangar-set-up-as-chop-shop-/

There you have enough info to look up the guy's coordinates. Then map DM's 2 condos at 70 Distillery Lane: see attached Google map.

The Harley was totally in the neighbourhood of DM and it could easily have been, he saw it in his travels, marvelled how simple it would be to hook that trailer up and drive away with it, one day he did so and took it up to the hangar and opened it like a Christmas present. moo.

For me the Harley was a turning point. It was stolen so close to DM's condo, and it was such a simple to execute crime, and it ended up in the hangar, and it showed a pattern of vehicle theft...it seems entirely plausible that DM could have been involved, with very negative implications to him in the case.

DM definitely would have a legitimate excuse to be loitering/scoping/casing in the area.

Eerie, that Trinity street name eh?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Well, I still wonder how a man with his means would want to steal a item like a Harley, now, if he has a chop shop running, he is likely making mark ups on the parts etc. I am sure when the dust settles, we might see how these items were sold and where they were sold to.

It is a pretty good alibi saying that he simply has the means to buy it, why would he steal it....but then again, DM would have to prove that he had purchased it from someone who might of stole it.

With him closing up Millard Air, DM would need some sort of income and the chop shop would be it. JMO.

The recent Post article http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/31/millard-aviation-business-in-decline-long-before-tim-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it/ seems to describe a guy who used to have means.

Granpa CW was the businessman, and after his death in 2006, Millardair only went downhill. It seems that for at least a year Millardair was not operating in any way, bringing in no income at the same time that a hangar worth $6M was being built. WM was spending the family fortune investing in building a business that DM was totally uninterested in, burning through cash...DM's lifestyle meant he was burning through the bank accounts as well and DM was concerned enough at the dwindling coffers to mention it to one of the Millardair consultants.

IMO the chop shop was not to make income but to get the things DM wanted, for free. There might be a few things they sold on...but I suspect DM was primarily hoping to add to his toy collection. moo

 

[SnooperDuper]

DM definitely would have a legitimate excuse to be loitering/scoping/casing in the area.

Eerie, that Trinity street name eh?

Well I figure the nearest Beer Store and LCBO are at King and River...up Trinity to King, turn east, drive by MMD's, turn north onto River. What are the odds DM never drove this route?

 

[Blomquist]

I think they could just take the heavier dual rear axle out of DMs truck and put it on Tim's truck, along with the the wider rear fenders. Then just swap the VIN from DM's truck over to Tim's. That would certainly be much easier than converting DM's truck to have the diesel engine. Quick paint job and you've got yourself a nice new diesel...

Why bother with that tbh...surely a dual rear axle and wider fenders are available for cheap at wreckers.... I dont think DM's truck has anything to do with this at all.... JMO

 

[Blomquist]

Well I figure the nearest Beer Store and LCBO are at King and River...up Trinity to King, turn east, drive by MMD's, turn north onto River. What are the odds DM never drove this route?

Do we actually know who was driving then???

 

[Blomquist]

The recent Post article http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/31/millard-aviation-business-in-decline-long-before-tim-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it/ seems to describe a guy who used to have means.

Granpa CW was the businessman, and after his death in 2006, Millardair only went downhill. It seems that for at least a year Millardair was not operating in any way, bringing in no income at the same time that a hangar worth $6M was being built. WM was spending the family fortune investing in building a business that DM was totally uninterested in, burning through cash...DM's lifestyle meant he was burning through the bank accounts as well and DM was concerned enough at the dwindling coffers to mention it to one of the Millardair consultants.

IMO the chop shop was not to make income but to get the things DM wanted, for free. There might be a few things they sold on...but I suspect DM was primarily hoping to add to his toy collection. moo

WM and DM went to buy a farm for almost a million dollars in 2011 so the coffers were there then. Also money makes money...so its safe to say that any trips DM took were paid for out of the interest alone. I think that the Sharif dude probably heard DM say that money is not with out end as it were and this somehow gets translated to"money running low"... If DM bought a place in Distillery district last month he obviously had money and obviously was buying somewhere to rent out to increase his wealth. It seems to me that DM was investing in property to increase or maintain his fortune. So why on earth would he need a chop shop?

Now if DM is into real estate renting it could well be that he has rented the hangar (s) to some shady people who have basically taken over the compound as it were. DM received a rent and along the way these 'friends' were happy to keep him happy while they carried on a wonderful business under the guise of needing a mechanics dream of a business premise.

I notice that no-one has yet picked up on the comment from DP...that his client feels 'he has been used'....interesting statement.

Now onto TB truck....

I think money is definitely the common denominator in this case... I cannot explain fully why I think this without breaking the forum rules..., but the truck was obviously wanted for a purpose IMO...be it to sell, keep, break up or confiscate.

It now needs to be determined who wanted the truck, that particular truck
and why did they take the truck instead of leaving it at the roadside or in a lane out in the country.

Also why would a guy be killed in the process when it would have been simpler to have taken guy and truck into the middle of nowhere... take the truck and leave the guy searching for a way home. Or even hold the guy until truck was safely out of the equation...

I think TB knew the people who came to his house. JMO or at least he knew one of them. Could have been a random acquaintance or work related but still an important possibility IMO I think somewhere along the line an argument occured... two people were angry at some point... TB over the truck..and someone over ??? MOO just another take on it...but JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do we actually know who was driving then???

Oh no! But I just think it is incredibly interesting that any route to the LCBO/Beer Store from DM's party condos, that is direct and does not backtrack, has to drive by MMD's trailer in the driveway. I.e., you take King St.

Kijiji might have nothing to do with the theft of this bike. It is very likely DM and friends saw MMD's trailer firsthand while running their regular errands when they were downtown. It's plausible one or two of them hooked up the trailer one night and took off with it.

It is likely though that DM was driving as he owns the truck that has the gooseneck hitch capable of hauling MMD's trailer...guys tend to not let other guys drive them around in their own vehicle, it's very effeminate, the way you treat your girlfriend not your buddy. moo.

 

[Blomquist]

Oh no! But I just think it is incredibly interesting that any route to the LCBO/Beer Store from DM's party condos, that is direct and does not backtrack, has to drive by MMD's trailer in the driveway. I.e., you take King St.

Kijiji might have nothing to do with the theft of this bike. It is very likely DM and friends saw MMD's trailer firsthand while running their regular errands when they were downtown. It's plausible one or two of them hooked up the trailer one night and took off with it.

It is likely though that DM was driving as he owns the truck that has the gooseneck hitch capable of hauling MMD's trailer...guys tend to not let other guys drive them around in their own vehicle, it's very effeminate, the way you treat your girlfriend not your buddy. moo.

So DM's friends would have taken this route often then..you think?

DM has so many vehicles I suspect he often loaned out his truck....just a possibilty but I would bet that that truck and that trailer were loaned out a gazillion times...

 

[cansleuther]

It is likely though that DM was driving as he owns the truck that has the gooseneck hitch capable of hauling MMD's trailer.

The bike and trailer were taken from his back driveway in downtown Toronto in broad daylight last fall and witnesses reported seeing perhaps two men in a black truck back in and take it away.

Source: http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/05/20130530-065940.html

Do we know if DM also had a black pickup truck in addition to the red one? Would the dark blue Yukon be able to pull this particular trailer? Is the Yukon a dark enough blue it could have been mistaken for black in broad daylight? MDD also mentions that he was able to obtain and turn over to police some security footage from a store across the street that may have recorded the theft, so perhaps this whole story will be revealed soon.

 

[SnooperDuper]

WM and DM went to buy a farm for almost a million dollars in 2011 so the coffers were there then.

Yes, two years ago.

Also money makes money...so its safe to say that any trips DM took were paid for out of the interest alone.

We don't know that WM/DM had interest bearing investments. They had a lot of real estate, which does not pay off until you sell it (except for the 6-plex rental, collecting rent) No one has said WM/DM have all sorts of stocks and money in the bank: they have just described real estate holdings. There is no proof that additional assets exist, so you can't assume they do.

I think that the Sharif dude probably heard DM say that money is not with out end as it were and this somehow gets translated to"money running low"...

What he said was:

“He advised [me] that the family coffers were running low and that he was very apprehensive to keep pouring money into the facility,” Mr. Sharif recounted in an email.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/31/millard-aviation-business-in-decline-long-before-tim-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it/

Also, the hangar "a venture whose costs already far exceeded the original estimates", same source. I heard the number $8M bandied around as the pricetag of the $6M hangar, and Millardair was not operating or making any income for at least a year

If DM bought a place in Distillery district last month he obvious had money and obvious was buying somewhere to rent out to increase his wealth. It seems to me that DM was investing in property to increase or maintain his fortune.

Or he was just shuffling his real estate portfolio...reinvesting the proceeds from the sale of his grandparent's Derry Rd. W home into a second condo.

So why on earth would he need a chop shop?

To buy the toys his dwindling fortunes could not supply.

Now if DM is into real estate renting it could well be that he has rented the hangar (s) to some shady people who have basically taken over the compound as it were. DM received a rent and along the way these 'friends' were happy to keep him happy while they carried on a wonderful business under the guise of needing a mechanics dream of a business premise.

If there was a tenant operating out of the hangar I am sure LE would have picked up on that by now.

I notice that no-one has yet picked up on the comment from DP...that his client feels 'he has been used'....interesting statement.

Naw I was going on about that in another thread - that was the red herring the lawyer threw out to make people feel somehow DM must be not guilty in all of this. He also described DM as "remorseful". Think about that one.

Now onto TB truck....

I think money is definitely the common denominator in this case... I cannot explain fully why I think this, but the truck was obviously wanted for a purpose IMO...be it to sell, keep, break up or confiscate.

It now needs to be determined who wanted the truck, that particular truck
and why did they take the truck instead of leaving it at the roadside or in a lane out in the country.

Also why would a guy be killed in the process when it would have been simpler to have taken guy and truck into the middle of nowhere... take the truck and leave the guy searching for a way home. Or even hold the guy until truck was safely out of the equation...

I think TB knew the people who came to his house. JMO or at least one of them. Could have been a random acquaintance or work related but still an important possibility IMO I think somewhere along the line an argument occured... two people were angry at some point... TB over the truck..and someone over ??? MOO just another take on it...but JMO

If DM suddenly and inexplicably had a new truck no one would blink because of his existing collection and 'known' wealth. If MS suddenly turned up with his own truck, um, there would be some obvious questions asked.

At this point it is fair to say, DM and MS showed up to test drive the truck. DP has at no time said DM was not involved...he has said "there is a bit of a story behind this" so imagining TB's abduction without DM figuring in just does not wash. DM was there, his lawyer has admitted it. If LE had got the wrong guy, or a guy who didn't see anything, DP would be crowing exactly that.

 

[Archangel7]

Well I figure the nearest Beer Store and LCBO are at King and River...up Trinity to King, turn east, drive by MMD's, turn north onto River. What are the odds DM never drove this route?

Slim, and none?:floorlaugh: