The Use of the Shovel

[TotallyObsessed]

Now...Since you mention this "friends of family" I have to take the opportunity to repeat myself yet again...I think that that Caylee's father is a "friend" of the family...In fact, I think that it's quite possible that he's a friend of GA's. In one of several lengthy interviews he had with OCSC and the FBI he was asked who he thought KC might possibly talk to about what happened and GA answered...A close family friend. COINKY DOINKY has it that this person's last name sounds exactly like Caylee's name! I am stuck on thinking this could be Caylee's father. There. I said it. My 2 cents.

MOO

I would not doubt it in the least. Now I'm having to do a search to find out the friend's name...are you perhaps referring to the ex-le person that stayed at the As for a while?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I don't know anything about the father part but isn't the shovel used to get the ladder out of the pool big/interesting news?

CA corrects KC and says you mean to dig up bamboo. KC claimed in front of Tracy that she used the shovel to get the ladder out of the pool. Why was the ladder in the pool? Ideas? Now I know why someone (GA?) had mentioned that someone had come in the yard at some point - he needed to suggest that their yard had visitors every now and then.

Then KC says they didn't have the timeline right about the shovel. She is keeping notes and commenting that the reporters have it all wrong but she won't cough up any information - even as to why she'd be digging a ladder out from the pool. Why not just say so? She is so smug.

What an arrogant person KC is.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I just don't buy the ladder fishing story BUT I think there's something to it. I mean, HOW could the ladder have ended up in the pool? You would really have to TRY to put one of those ladders in the pool, they don't just slip in. Plus, kc doesn't give a rats a@@ about anything - if the ladder had fallen into the pool, I just can't see her fishing it out. Let alone having to go to the trouble to go to the neighbors to borrow it and then take it back. PLUS she borrowed the shovel twice, right? So, somehow the ladder slipped into the pool twice in three days? I don't think so. Not to mention her having backed into the garage. She has to back into the garage (something she's never done before) to get the ladder out of the pool? Yeah, right.

I think she's trying to tell us something, though. I don't know, maybe LP was right on with Caylee drowning in the pool . . . .

 

[momtective]

That's what I want to know too, "how'd the ladder get into the pool in the first place?"
There is no way that ladder just fell in the pool! Possibly pulled into the pool by a drowning 2 year old... but it did not fall into that pool!

 

[thelmadawg]

snip:
I think she's trying to tell us something, though. I don't know, maybe LP was right on with Caylee drowning in the pool . . . .

Caylee drowning in the pool and Caylee being drowned in the pool are two entirely different things, eh?

I've always felt that (IMO) Casey tried to create an accident scenario, thus the ostensibly frantic calls to George and Cindy late in the afternoon.

This is hard to write, but . . .

OMG Caylee's in the pool! Come quick. Oops, she couldn't reach them. Even Casey knows any normal person would call 911 for help. Plan 2: Geez, I want to be at Tony's, see a movie, chill out. D*m. This isn't working. I'll just put her in the trunk for the time being and figure it out later.

Did the duct tape and the heart come before or after?

"Maybe I'm just a spiteful *****." Says it all, doesn't it.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I just don't buy the ladder fishing story BUT I think there's something to it. I mean, HOW could the ladder have ended up in the pool? You would really have to TRY to put one of those ladders in the pool, they don't just slip in. Plus, kc doesn't give a rats a@@ about anything - if the ladder had fallen into the pool, I just can't see her fishing it out. Let alone having to go to the trouble to go to the neighbors to borrow it and then take it back. PLUS she borrowed the shovel twice, right? So, somehow the ladder slipped into the pool twice in three days? I don't think so. Not to mention her having backed into the garage. She has to back into the garage (something she's never done before) to get the ladder out of the pool? Yeah, right.

I think she's trying to tell us something, though. I don't know, maybe LP was right on with Caylee drowning in the pool . . . .

I don't recall that KC borrowed the shovel twice. Not sure where you heard that but of course I could be wrong. As far as I recall she borrowed it once from the neighbor next door who had just returned recently from his vacation in Chicago. She had it for an hour or so (don't quote me). She returned it the same afternoon within a reasonable timeframe.

The point is though that KC said that with Tracy sitting right there. CA corrected her and said you mean to clear bamboo. So whatever excuse they discussed at least that seems premeditated - or KC really did use the shovel to pick out the ladder from the pool.

Do they float? Those ladders?

 

[momtective]

snip:
I think she's trying to tell us something, though. I don't know, maybe LP was right on with Caylee drowning in the pool . . . .

Caylee drowning in the pool and Caylee being drowned in the pool are two entirely different things, eh?

I've always felt that (IMO) Casey tried to create an accident scenario, thus the ostensibly frantic calls to George and Cindy late in the afternoon.

This is hard to write, but . . .

OMG Caylee's in the pool! Come quick. Oops, she couldn't reach them. Even Casey knows any normal person would call 911 for help. Plan 2: Geez, I want to be at Tony's, see a movie, chill out. D*m. This isn't working. I'll just put her in the trunk for the time being and figure it out later.

Did the duct tape and the heart come before or after?

"Maybe I'm just a spiteful *****." Says it all, doesn't it.

I know, I don't buy the accidental drowning theory either, especially in light of the duct tape and the heart sticker. But we know KC was on the phone or the computer 99% of the time and probably wasn't paying any attention to Caylee, so accidental drowning is at least plausible.
I'm thinking if Caylee did accidentally drown (look at the storage box sitting right there at the side of the pool) KC just breezed right on through it, lifted her outta the water, put her in the trunk and went to meet TonE. Much like her total disassociation when Tracy was in the house, oblivious to the reality of the situation and completely self absorbed.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

snip:
I think she's trying to tell us something, though. I don't know, maybe LP was right on with Caylee drowning in the pool . . . .

Caylee drowning in the pool and Caylee being drowned in the pool are two entirely different things, eh?

I've always felt that (IMO) Casey tried to create an accident scenario, thus the ostensibly frantic calls to George and Cindy late in the afternoon.

This is hard to write, but . . .

OMG Caylee's in the pool! Come quick. Oops, she couldn't reach them. Even Casey knows any normal person would call 911 for help. Plan 2: Geez, I want to be at Tony's, see a movie, chill out. D*m. This isn't working. I'll just put her in the trunk for the time being and figure it out later.

Did the duct tape and the heart come before or after?

"Maybe I'm just a spiteful *****." Says it all, doesn't it.

I know it's heartbreaking to think of Caylee grabbing the handles of the ladder from the inside of the pool and pulling it in on top of herself. Is that even possible do you think? (Like if KC just let her drown for instance.)

 

[snow_walker]

This 'ladder in the pool' thing struck me so odd when I heard it in that Tracy interview..I can't make sense of it.. had it been the 16th when she borrowed the shovel, I would say it did have do with Caylee drowing in the pool somehow.. BUT it was at least one day, probably two, after that. Caylee had already been dead for that long.

If it had been there for a dayor two, CA or GA would have retrieved it, or if they didn't why would KC bother with it anyway, at that point in time? She had already moved on with her life.

All I can think of is that somehow she meant 'I used the shovel to REMOVE the ladder.. to take the ladder completley out of the pool'..Why would she want to do that? Again the only thing I can think of is that somehow she had used the ladder to wedge little Caylee's body to the side of the pool, or down at the bottom, underneath it.

If that were the case though, it would seem very odd that the body wasn't discovered post haste by the first person who went to use the pool, or at least KC couldn't count on no one going into the pool until she had a chance to remove the body again.

Still that is the best fit for the facts as I understand them at the moment, so I shall fly with that till something else works better.

 

[momtective]

This 'ladder in the pool' thing struck me so odd when I heard it in that Tracy interview..I can't make sense of it.. had it been the 16th when she borrowed the shovel, I would say it did have do with Caylee drowing in the pool somehow.. BUT it was at least one day, probably two, after that. Caylee had already been dead for that long.

If it had been there for a dayor two, CA or GA would have retrieved it, or if they didn't why would KC bother with it anyway, at that point in time? She had already moved on with her life.

All I can think of is that somehow she meant 'I used the shovel to REMOVE the ladder.. to take the ladder completley out of the pool'..Why would she want to do that? Again the only thing I can think of is that somehow she had used the ladder to wedge little Caylee's body to the side of the pool, or down at the bottom, underneath it.

If that were the case though, it would seem very odd that the body wasn't discovered post haste by the first person who went to use the pool, or at least KC couldn't count on no one going into the pool until she had a chance to remove the body again.

Still that is the best fit for the facts as I understand them at the moment, so I shall fly with that till something else works better.

Oh, but she could have done just that, left Caylee in the bottom of the pool, wedged down by the ladder. I'm thinking she would be pretty confident that no one would use the pool because IIRC it was raining almost every day from June 16 thru the end of the month.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I don't recall that KC borrowed the shovel twice. Not sure where you heard that but of course I could be wrong. As far as I recall she borrowed it once from the neighbor next door who had just returned recently from his vacation in Chicago. She had it for an hour or so (don't quote me). She returned it the same afternoon within a reasonable timeframe.

The point is though that KC said that with Tracy sitting right there. CA corrected her and said you mean to clear bamboo. So whatever excuse they discussed at least that seems premeditated - or KC really did use the shovel to pick out the ladder from the pool.

Do they float? Those ladders?

BBM - Yes, I believe you're right. I think I was thinking about the fact she backed into the garage twice in three days. :doh:

 

[Amil]

snip:
I think she's trying to tell us something, though. I don't know, maybe LP was right on with Caylee drowning in the pool . . . .

Caylee drowning in the pool and Caylee being drowned in the pool are two entirely different things, eh?

I've always felt that (IMO) Casey tried to create an accident scenario, thus the ostensibly frantic calls to George and Cindy late in the afternoon.

This is hard to write, but . . .

OMG Caylee's in the pool! Come quick. Oops, she couldn't reach them. Even Casey knows any normal person would call 911 for help. Plan 2: Geez, I want to be at Tony's, see a movie, chill out. D*m. This isn't working. I'll just put her in the trunk for the time being and figure it out later.

Did the duct tape and the heart come before or after?

"Maybe I'm just a spiteful *****." Says it all, doesn't it.

So maybe she left her in the pool for a few days??? The dogs wouldn't alert to a body in the pool.

 

[The World According]

I don't recall that KC borrowed the shovel twice. Not sure where you heard that but of course I could be wrong. As far as I recall she borrowed it once from the neighbor next door who had just returned recently from his vacation in Chicago. She had it for an hour or so (don't quote me). She returned it the same afternoon within a reasonable timeframe.

The point is though that KC said that with Tracy sitting right there. CA corrected her and said you mean to clear bamboo. So whatever excuse they discussed at least that seems premeditated - or KC really did use the shovel to pick out the ladder from the pool.

Do they float? Those ladders?

Yes, and at night when she went to sleep in Cindy's room, Casey and Cindy did a lot of pillow talk.

 

[Pink Panther]

I think that she threw it out as a sarcastic possibility - It was said in the same breath as the bamboo thing...

 

[Balthazar]

I think that what Casey meant about the ladder being in the pool is that the ladder is an A frame and one side was in the pool - on these above ground pools, you can't sit on the edge - it damages them, so you climb up the ladder and across the small platform at the top and then down the ladder to get into the pool. Above ground pools are about 52" to 54" tall typically. I believe Casey is around 5 ft - 5ft 1in tall (60 - 61") - not tall at all. So, if the ladder is in the pool, for her to get it out of there by herself, she might need something to use as leverage to tip the ladder back towards her in order to grasp the rails high enough to pull the ladder out of the pool. I think that is what she was talking about. I could be wrong, but that's what comes to mind for me.

 

[MysticOne]

I think that what Casey meant about the ladder being in the pool is that the ladder is an A frame and one side was in the pool - on these above ground pools, you can't sit on the edge - it damages them, so you climb up the ladder and across the small platform at the top and then down the ladder to get into the pool. Above ground pools are about 52" to 54" tall typically. I believe Casey is around 5 ft - 5ft 1in tall (60 - 61") - not tall at all. So, if the ladder is in the pool, for her to get it out of there by herself, she might need something to use as leverage to tip the ladder back towards her in order to grasp the rails high enough to pull the ladder out of the pool. I think that is what she was talking about. I could be wrong, but that's what comes to mind for me.

This seems entirely possible! My only question is to why KC would feel compelled to remove the ladder from the pool on the 18th? It is not like her to care about the ladder being in the pool, she knew GA or CA would make sure it was taken care of, unless she didn't want GA or CA to see the ladder in the pool? If so, then why did she take the chance of waiting two days before making sure it was out of the pool?

My brain just can't comprehend KC's thinking.

 

[Mystic]

Don't know about this and maybe someone else does. I've always thought she drowned Caylee in the pool or at least knocked her out by holding her down. Now does anyone know if that did occur, would the body release fluids (kwim)? If that were the case she could have needed the shovel to remove it. Just a thought.

 

[momtective]

Again, I have to ask, "How did the ladder get in the pool?" We have an above ground pool and my dd has one exactly like the A's, the ladder does not just fall into the pool. It's an A frame ladder that sits over the edge of the pool with the base of one ladder going into the pool and the base of the other sitting on the ground outside of the pool. To get the ladder into the pool one would have to lift the ladder off the ground from outside the pool, lift it over ones head and push it over into the pool. Our ladder stands 6' and for me at 5'4" to get over the edge of the pool is a pain in the @ss (we remove it after every swim because we have little ones)
I just can't understand how the ladder got into the pool.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

This seems entirely possible! My only question is to why KC would feel compelled to remove the ladder from the pool on the 18th? It is not like her to care about the ladder being in the pool, she knew GA or CA would make sure it was taken care of, unless she didn't want GA or CA to see the ladder in the pool? If so, then why did she take the chance of waiting two days before making sure it was out of the pool?

My brain just can't comprehend KC's thinking.

Does anyone remember the date that CA talked about in an early TV interview about the pool ladder being moved, and her blaming GA?

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Don't know about this and maybe someone else does. I've always thought she drowned Caylee in the pool or at least knocked her out by holding her down. Now does anyone know if that did occur, would the body release fluids (kwim)? If that were the case she could have needed the shovel to remove it. Just a thought.

God forbid of the scenario I am thinking about....
KC: Caylee, let's play a game. I'm putting this tape over your mouth with a little heart....you swim awhile....mommie's moving the ladder......keep swimming....
Wouldn't put it past her one bit.