The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

[sacrablue]

My point is that FKC raced to the back of the Sunfire to get GA his f-in gas cans ... IMO, the reason she raced back to the car was b/c a dead Caylee was still bagged up in the trunk. I don't FCA would've cared about GA finding the gas cans if Caylee was not in the trunk.

Also, I believe FCA texted AH on or around 6/27 that she had finally rid of the smell in here car (after the driveway gas can incident on 6/24).

Ok, yes June 24, body could have been right there but that's 7 days past death...I don't know. If the body was still there I believe the odor would be over powering even where George was standing. We just don't know if the bags were ripped or leaking through plastic ties. I put a dead raccoon in a tripple bagged system. It was like the smell passed through the plastic walls. I was very suprised. I

 

[imagirlgeek]

Plus why would she risk going back to the house during a time that she knew GA would be at home if Caylee were laying in the trunk rotting?

During one of the interviews between GA and a detective, GA said his car was in the garage, so I bet she didn't think he was home.

 

[Sustained]

Yeah but if Caylee had been in the trunk dead since 6/15 or 6/16 baking in the sweltering heat of July, the stink in the trunk would have been noticable from a distance. Even if he was at the front door and the car was in the driveway that stench would have reach GA nostrials and he would have freaked out.

The fact that GA got so close and smelled nothing that would have caused him alarm and only noticed his gas cans says that she only wanted to hide that she had the gas cans.

Plus why would she risk going back to the house during a time that she knew GA would be at home if Caylee were laying in the trunk rotting?

Her hesitency was all about concealing the stolen gas cans.

She talked about getting rid of the smell to Amy because I think that's when she ditched the car at amscot.

If FCA had already dumped the body by 6/24 as you assume (and GA didn't smell decomp) and then left the car at Amscot on 6/27, why did the car smell like death on 7/15 when GA/Simon Birch went to retrieve it at the tow yard ? So GA didn't smell the decomp smell on 6/24 ... there were other LE personnel who also brushed by the car on 7/15-7/16 and didn't smell decomp either.

From the trash ? Not likely, as it was stated that the car still smelled two years later after the trash was removed.

 

[Mystic]

Just to share some ideas I've had about this. GA knew it smelled like decomp but decided that it wasn't KC or Caylee. I'm assuming he wanted to get the story from KC to find out who/what/when occurred with the car since it smelled like decomp. That's why he didn't call 911, they couldn't for a minute imagine what really happened.. it had to be something/somebody else. Of course this is jmo.

Remember CA is telling him I've been talking to KC and Caylee is with the nanny and she's been out of town. And GA has had a hands off approach to anything KC does...so unfortunately he waits.

If the jurors had paid attention, some being parents/grandparents themselves. They would easily see that GA never stopped believing it was decomp and a dead body had been in the trunk, he just suspended judgement that it was KC or Caylee.

 

[logicalgirl]

Yeah but if Caylee had been in the trunk dead since 6/15 or 6/16 baking in the sweltering heat of July, the stink in the trunk would have been noticable from a distance. Even if he was at the front door and the car was in the driveway that stench would have reach GA nostrials and he would have freaked out.

The fact that GA got so close and smelled nothing that would have caused him alarm and only noticed his gas cans says that she only wanted to hide that she had the gas cans.

Plus why would she risk going back to the house during a time that she knew GA would be at home if Caylee were laying in the trunk rotting?

Her hesitency was all about concealing the stolen gas cans.

She talked about getting rid of the smell to Amy because I think that's when she ditched the car at amscot.

I really believe the trial expert testimony of 1-3 days is correct - the smell would have still been there- but I just don't believe FKC would leave that bag in the trunk for 8 - 9 days - there is no way....

And yes, agree her way of telling Amy she'd gotten rid of the smell was to ditch the car and hope it got stolen...

 

[logicalgirl]

Just to share some ideas I've had about this. GA knew it smelled like decomp but decided that it wasn't KC or Caylee. I'm assuming he wanted to get the story from KC to find out who/what/when occurred with the car since it smelled like decomp. That's why he didn't call 911, they couldn't for a minute imagine what really happened.. it had to be something/somebody else. Of course this is jmo.

Remember CA is telling him I've been talking to KC and Caylee is with the nanny and she's been out of town. And GA has had a hands off approach to anything KC does...so unfortunately he waits.

If the jurors had paid attention, some being parents/grandparents themselves. They would easily see that GA never stopped believing it was decomp and a dead body had been in the trunk, he just suspended judgement that it was KC or Caylee.

Yes, I don't believe GA suspected either of them was in the trunk once it was opened.
But I do think he definitely had very strong suspicions when FKC was unable to produce Caylee on the night of the 15th. Prior to that CA had been speaking and texting FKC on an almost daily basis with updates of how much fun she and Caylee were having - and at that particular time, FKC was supposed to be in Jacksonville with the new rich BF, Jeffrey and his son.

 

[logicalgirl]

Not necessarily. The stink was part of the reason, yes. But don't forget, KC never told them she wasn't in possession of the car. They were pretty shocked to find the car in the towyard.

Yes, I'll bet there 1st thought was not that either FKC or Caylee were in trouble but that FKC had been involved in something bad, or had lent her car to someone who did something bad.....

I just don't think they thought "aha! FKC has killed Caylee" - what parent does? That stuff happens to "other people"....folks always think that - how many times do we read about a person who says "I never believed this would happen to me or my family" when there is a murder victim.

 

[sacrablue]

I really believe the trial expert testimony of 1-3 days is correct - the smell would have still been there- but I just don't believe FKC would leave that bag in the trunk for 8 - 9 days - there is no way....

And yes, agree here way of telling Amy she'd gotten rid of the smell was to ditch the car and hope it got stolen...

Yea, I don't think it would be possible to drive a car with a body that advanced. Your eyes would be tearing to the point the driver couldn't see.

 

[1Chump]

Found it. Copied his words from the interview. Is this what you are referring to?

GEORGE ANTHONY: And I said, Really? She says, yes. I said, Interesting. And I just said, Hey, by the way, I said, I'm getting ready to rotate your mom's tires on her car. There's a little metal wedge that fits underneath your tires so your car doesn't rock back and forth. And I said, Well, I'd like to have it, so in case you're not here over the weekend, I'd like to be able to do it.

She was hesitant about letting me get in the car. And I said, Well, listen, I got an extra key. I'll just go get it. Well, she was adamant about -- about that.

VAN SUSTEREN: What, not letting you into the car?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, didn't want me to get into the car to get the stuff out. Dad, I'll get it for you. Dad, I'll get it out. I said, It's no problem. I know where it's at. I'll get it, get it out and be done with it.

So as we're walking out through the garage, she's still telling me, Dad, I'll get it. Give me a minute, I'll get it. I said, Casey, I'm capable of reaching inside your car, and I got it. So -- and she opened up the trunk of the car...

Actually, the video differs in this way.....in the last statement in the video he states this.

So -- AS she opened up the trunk of the car...

I agree that the jury came up with the only verdict they could based on the prosecutions case.

I had some questions about GA's testimony.

His reasoning for getting in Casey's trunk was the tire wedge. I thought the entire "story" was bull. First, strange that the tire wedge would be in her car. I really doubt Casey would put it in her car. My bigger issue is GA NEVER mentioned the tire wedge again.

IMO, he lied. It was always about the gas cans. However, since he filed a police report about stolen gas cans when he knew Casey had them, he had to come up with some reason other than the gas cans.

As far as GA smelling decomp in the car. Again, I did not believe him. He NEVER testified to a "reaction" to the smell. His own testimony was he could smell it before he opened a door. When he opened the door, he NEVER testified to a physical reaction. Just a smell. Then he drove him with the windows "cracked." If the smell was that bad, how could you drive with the windows cracked and not at least gag? After he gets home, he went to work. Nothing about changing his clothes or showering before he went to work.

Everything I have ever heard about human decomposition is that it clings to everything. You don't just smell it. It gets in your hair, on your skin, in your clothes. Unlike other odors, decomp stays with you long after you are away from the odor.

During the trial, when TH"s were describing it, they all said the same thing. They do not even try to wash their clothes, they throw them away. Then immediately shower and shower and shower. They confirmed EVERYTHING I had thought.

IMO, GA lied about why he needed Casey to open her trunk and smelling human decomp. Why would he lie about something that would make Casey look bad? He definitely was not trying to protect Casey with those stories. So why lie?

IMO, the prosecution put too much faith in GA. They believed GA so they left too many unasked questions. Those unasked questions made me question him more. Maybe he did also retrieve the tire wedge. Maybe he did change his clothes and shower. By not asking those questions though, GA's credibility was severly damaged IMO.

IMO, that left two people who were lying over that 31 day period. However, only one of them was directly linked to habitually using the duct tape from June through August then lied, misdirected and/or evade answering the questions about the duct tape.

IMO, no problem answering questions that made his daughter look bad but would not answer questions that might make him look bad. Ironically, if he would have just answered the questions that might make him look bad, he would have been more credibile.

 

[eleni777]

If FCA had already dumped the body by 6/24 as you assume and then left the car at Amscot on 6/27, why did the car smell like death on 7/15 when GA/Simon Birch went to retrieve it at the tow yard ? So GA didn't smell the decomp smell on 6/24 ... there were other LE personnel who also brushed by the car on 7/15-7/16 and didn't smell decomp either.

From the trash ? Not likely, as it was stated that the car still smelled two years later after the trash was removed.

I have no answer for that I've never smelled decomp or have any experience with a dead body...

I find it VERY odd that Dr. G. testified that in July in Florida it takes a body on two weeks to completely skeletonize.

So if Caylee were in the trunk from 6/16 to 6/24, like the alot of people think...that's 9 out 14 days...the stench would have been noticable as Casey drove down the road and was stopped at stop lights. It would have been noticable from TL's parking area at his apartment. It would have been vomit inducing horrible from yards away. Garbage bags aren't air tight..they are permeable. They aren't water tight either. Caylee would have been a horrible mess sloshing around in those bags in the trunk. There would have been decomp material in every nook and crannie in the trunk...there would have been more evidence of decomp besides the one hair with a death band in the trunk and there wasn't.

Why those other LE brushed past the car and didn't smell it... I have no answer for that either. That's what makes this all so confusing. You have a tow yard guy saying it smelled like human decomp but doesn't notify the cops. You have GA, a retired cop saying it smelled like human decomp but drives it home and goes to work. You have other LE saying smells like human decomp. Then you have two other saying they didn't smell anything.

Who do you believe?

 

[sacrablue]

I have no answer for that I've never smelled decomp or have any experience with a dead body...

I find it VERY odd that Dr. G. testified that in July in Florida it takes a body on two weeks to completely skeletonize.

So if Caylee were in the trunk from 6/16 to 6/24, like the alot of people think...that's 9 out 14 days...the stench would have been noticable as Casey drove down the road and was stopped at stop lights. It would have been noticable from TL's parking area at his apartment. It would have been vomit inducing horrible from yards away. Garbage bags aren't air tight..they are permeable. They aren't water tight either. Caylee would have been a horrible mess sloshing around in those bags in the trunk. There would have been decomp material in every nook and crannie in the trunk...there would have been more evidence of decomp besides the one hair with a death band in the trunk and there wasn't.

Why those other LE brushed past the car and didn't smell it... I have no answer for that either. That's what makes this all so confusing. You have a retired cop and tow yard guy saying it smelled like human decomp. You have other LE saying smells like human decomp. Then you have two other saying they didn't smell anything.

Who do you believe?

Where was Pontiac when LE walked by the car and date? Remember the trunk of some cars seals pretty tight. They are designed to keep water out.

 

[logicalgirl]

I agree that the jury came up with the only verdict they could based on the prosecutions case.

I had some questions about GA's testimony.

His reasoning for getting in Casey's trunk was the tire wedge. I thought the entire "story" was bull. First, strange that the tire wedge would be in her car. I really doubt Casey would put it in her car. My bigger issue is GA NEVER mentioned the tire wedge again.

IMO, he lied. It was always about the gas cans. However, since he filed a police report about stolen gas cans when he knew Casey had them, he had to come up with some reason other than the gas cans.

As far as GA smelling decomp in the car. Again, I did not believe him. He NEVER testified to a "reaction" to the smell. His own testimony was he could smell it before he opened a door. When he opened the door, he NEVER testified to a physical reaction. Just a smell. Then he drove him with the windows "cracked." If the smell was that bad, how could you drive with the windows cracked and not at least gag? After he gets home, he went to work. Nothing about changing his clothes or showering before he went to work.

Everything I have ever heard about human decomposition is that it clings to everything. You don't just smell it. It gets in your hair, on your skin, in your clothes. Unlike other odors, decomp stays with you long after you are away from the odor.

During the trial, when TH"s were describing it, they all said the same thing. They do not even try to wash their clothes, they throw them away. Then immediately shower and shower and shower. They confirmed EVERYTHING I had thought.

IMO, GA lied about why he needed Casey to open her trunk and smelling human decomp. Why would he lie about something that would make Casey look bad? He definitely was not trying to protect Casey with those stories. So why lie?

IMO, the prosecution put too much faith in GA. They believed GA so they left too many unasked questions. Those unasked questions made me question him more. Maybe he did also retrieve the tire wedge. Maybe he did change his clothes and shower. By not asking those questions though, GA's credibility was severly damaged IMO.

IMO, that left two people who were lying over that 31 day period. However, only one of them was directly linked to habitually using the duct tape from June through August then lied, misdirected and/or evade answering the questions about the duct tape.

IMO, no problem answering questions that made his daughter look bad but would not answer questions that might make him look bad. Ironically, if he would have just answered the questions that might make him look bad, he would have been more credibile.

Over and over again I have to ask, with so much definitive scientific evidence, what the heck did George and his gas cans have to do with the case? George long suspected FCA was lying and stringing her mother along about working when she clearly wasn't. He suspected she was sneaking back home after she left with Caylee in tow pretending she was going to work.

But George and his gas cans had nothing to do with this case. What would they or George have to do with FKC's guilt or innocence? This case wasn't about George, it was about FKC.
It became about George when Baez suckered the jury into believing George both found Caylee's lifeless body in the pool and (probably) bagged her and disposed of her, and sexually abused her most of her life. No juror apparently noticed there was absolutely no basis of fact presented in either accusation, - absolutely none at all.

But because George was looking a bit shifty because he was facing the lawyer who pretended for three years he was their friend, and the lawyer who publicly on the stand of two of the most despicable deeds in this world there are.

I don't believe that any of you if placed on the stand and accused of those two things, would be calm and reasonable. You wouldn't when every newspaper, radio and TV station was blaring those lies, and apparently - most people were thinking they were true. Any sane person would have been disgusted and very very angry.

Baez didn't have any credibility before this trial, he didn't during the trial and I really wish people would stop giving his smear campaign credibility after the fact without providing specific proven links. All IMO of course.

George is a guy with issues. He is not a pedophile and he did not find and dispose of his grand daughter's body.

 

[LyndyLoo]

My point is that FKC raced to the back of the Sunfire to get GA his f-in gas cans ... IMO, the reason she raced back to the car was b/c a dead Caylee was still bagged up in the trunk. I don't FCA would've cared about GA finding the gas cans if Caylee was not in the trunk.

First, I do NOT believe at all that Caylee was still in that trunk, however that dreadfull smell was..and her Gas Can "deordorizer" KC used to mask the smell had stopped working..remember that plug in one of the canswas found missing by George thus duct tape used to plug the hole..
Also, I believe FCA texted AH on or around 6/27 that she had finally rid of the smell in here car (after the driveway gas can incident on 6/24).

Caylee had long been dumped into that swamp up the street, but her smell had not been removed..and it only worsened as the soaked carpet just continued to emit it in that heat! I think KC referred to getting rid of the smell..was because she dumped the car at the Amscot beside a dumpster by then (if I got the timeline right?) or that was her plan..as she had access to TonE's car and Amy's to use

All bolding is my responses :seeya:

 

[eleni777]

Where was Pontiac when LE walked by the car and date? Remember the trunk of some cars seals pretty tight. They are designed to keep water out.

IIRC it was at the house in the garage with the trunk open and the garage door open.

 

[imagirlgeek]

I live in Texas and if it is anywhere near as hot in Orlando as it is here in June and July, I don't think KC could have kept a body in her trunk for very long.

I'm not trying to give credibility to an argument on either side with this post, just sharing.

I have a cat who occasionally brings me a dead bird. The first time, I just put it in a ziplock baggie and tossed it in the trash in the garage. HUGE mistake. By that afternoon, the entire garage stunk. It was horrible. So, the next time, I wrapped it up in paper towels, put that inside a freezer bag, then put that inside 2 plastic grocery bags and tied the handles together. Then put it in the trash in the garage. There was no difference, it still stunk up the entire garage. Now I wrap it up and stick it in the freezer until trash day. That's the only way I can keep it from stinking up the garage.

That's my experience with a dead bird. I can't even imagine the stench of a small human in a trunk, triple bagged or not, for a long period of time without alerting everyone around that something is dead.

I do, however, believe that Caylee was in the trunk at some point. I know someone who bought a car in which a murder/suicide had occurred. He tried everything to get the smell out of that car, but ended up having to completely gut it. That's proof to me that the smell of death will stay around forever. I mean, sure, you could probably cover it up for a while if you use enough bleach and/or Febreze, but eventually that smell is going to come right back out again.

 

[sacrablue]

I agree that the jury came up with the only verdict they could based on the prosecutions case.

I had some questions about GA's testimony.

His reasoning for getting in Casey's trunk was the tire wedge. I thought the entire "story" was bull. First, strange that the tire wedge would be in her car. I really doubt Casey would put it in her car. My bigger issue is GA NEVER mentioned the tire wedge again.

IMO, he lied. It was always about the gas cans. However, since he filed a police report about stolen gas cans when he knew Casey had them, he had to come up with some reason other than the gas cans.

As far as GA smelling decomp in the car. Again, I did not believe him. He NEVER testified to a "reaction" to the smell. His own testimony was he could smell it before he opened a door. When he opened the door, he NEVER testified to a physical reaction. Just a smell. Then he drove him with the windows "cracked." If the smell was that bad, how could you drive with the windows cracked and not at least gag? After he gets home, he went to work. Nothing about changing his clothes or showering before he went to work.

Everything I have ever heard about human decomposition is that it clings to everything. You don't just smell it. It gets in your hair, on your skin, in your clothes. Unlike other odors, decomp stays with you long after you are away from the odor.

During the trial, when TH"s were describing it, they all said the same thing. They do not even try to wash their clothes, they throw them away. Then immediately shower and shower and shower. They confirmed EVERYTHING I had thought.

IMO, GA lied about why he needed Casey to open her trunk and smelling human decomp. Why would he lie about something that would make Casey look bad? He definitely was not trying to protect Casey with those stories. So why lie?

IMO, the prosecution put too much faith in GA. They believed GA so they left too many unasked questions. Those unasked questions made me question him more. Maybe he did also retrieve the tire wedge. Maybe he did change his clothes and shower. By not asking those questions though, GA's credibility was severly damaged IMO.

IMO, that left two people who were lying over that 31 day period. However, only one of them was directly linked to habitually using the duct tape from June through August then lied, misdirected and/or evade answering the questions about the duct tape.

IMO, no problem answering questions that made his daughter look bad but would not answer questions that might make him look bad. Ironically, if he would have just answered the questions that might make him look bad, he would have been more credibile.

Wow, Baez would be proud of you.

 

[beccalecca1]

Agreed. Although, you are expected to act "responsibly" when choosing who you drop your kid off to! Dropping your kid off at the bottom of the concrete stairs of an apartment complex to a babysitter/nanny that doesn't exist does not constitute a "responsible" parent. That said, I can see where the "child neglect" charge came from in the eyes of LE.

I don't think leaving your child at the bottom of the stairs to their babysitter/day care provider/nanny constitutes as child neglect, but I believe (after being informed repeatedly :innocent the reason for the original child neglect charge was because she claimed her child was missing for 31 days prior to it being reported. I can rationalize with that. I can't rationalize with you leaving your child with someone to watch them, something happens while in the other person's care and you're automatically charged with neglect. I've never heard of such a thing happening and don't believe such a thing would happen (unless you're leaving your child with a known criminal, drug addict, someone intoxicated, someone known by CPS to be harmful for children, etc).

 

[beccalecca1]

Exactly. However, I don't see any reference in that depo of the first story told to GVS about him opening the trunk instead of Casey. The video of that interview is apparent that he says that.

I looked at pg 11-13 from the link and I didn't see anything regarding the phone call at 3:03pm to the home from GA's cell. Did you see it?

 

[beccalecca1]

I believe that's where the prosecution faltered. Hated to even say that but, in hindsight with this jury, that entire day should have been spelled out for them. Maybe then they would have been able to picture in their minds, Caylee alive at 4pm, Casey showed up at Blockbuster w/Tony around 7pm. Caylee not seen after 4pm by anyone other than Casey.

IIRC, they couldn't confirm the informant's statement that Caylee was actually at Walmart at the time. There were no videos linking it and his statement that Caylee had to open the door at Walmart all by herself didn't seem to add up (especially given that most disagree she could've opened the sliding door). Perhaps that's why it wasn't brought up?

 

[erinleigh]

for all we know the whole gas can story was bs. GA could have confroned KC and she went and got them and threw them at him. i think she kept the cans in the car with the valve off to help mask the odor.

anyway...maybe GA said he opened the the trunk so that people would believe he "didn't smell" anything on the 24th so people would think there as no body in the trunk. they were in full coverup mide by the time they gave statements. unfortunately GA and CA's inability to tell the truth let a "possible" murderer walk free and they set themselves up for much scrutiny.

to me, i really cant believe much of anything that was said word for word. the spin was put into place from day one when they started with the June 09th comments. (actually on the 911 call i thought CA said June 07)