The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

[logicalgirl]

Originally Posted by beccalecca1
If there were no evidence of an accident (which is been said many times now), why would HHJP allow this discussion in closings? There was evidence presented of an accident.

Again something that we can (to a point) agree on.

While there was no evidence of an accident, it is correct that an accident could have been considered as cause of death by the jury. However, in the framework of an accident, using the mitigating circumstances presented in evidence and the behavior of Casey Anthony which clearly (reasonably, legally and all other criteria) speaks to consciousness of guilt, one must reasonably conclude it was not an innocent accident but instead homicide (which can include an accident with aggravating factors).

While "Consciousness of Guilt" cannot be solely used to convict (for instance: Casey lies and parties: Nobody has seen Tony the boyfriend in months. You cannot make the leap that Casey killed Tony without some other evidence ... dead body being the most persuasive).

Evidence of Consciousness of Guilt coupled with other evidence, is very strong proof of guilt and the jury - if they are properly doing their job - MUST consider it as evidence. They may not explain it away using speculation or theories not in evidence.

But your comments are interesting fodder for this discussion.

Like you, I cannot help but consider that the death may have been an accident. (As you know, it is not essential to know cause of death.)

However, it is impossible to conclude it was an innocent accident in the framework of the circumstances. If I am required to use the evidence, then I must consider the Consciousness of Guilt and must, therefore, reason that if there was an accident, it resulted from Culpable Negligence on the part of Casey Anthony.

Excellent presentation of argument Italy, but let me put it in layman's terms here so those discussing this can understand.

There was a "suggestion" of an accident floated in the courtroom by Mr. Baez. A photo of a toddler climbing a ladder guided by her grandmother's hand. A photo of a child standing on her tiptoes reaching for a handle of a sliding door. And a whole bunch of couldahs, maybe's, wantcha to think please please, when pigs fly theories in that "suggestion" floated in closing.
A look I've worn a matching pocket square every day for ya all suggestion...that's it.

 

[MissJames]

Why is it easier to think a mother murdered her child, drove around with her for a few days, then dumped her child in a swamp..... and not easier to think the child accidently drowned?

Because she never acted like a mother who's child accidently drowned,she acted like a mother who was covering up a murder.

 

[gxm]

Oh, yes........I forgot........anything to do with Caylee was soooo upsetting to her. Puleeezzeeee!

As the thread goes on, it seems to get more and more bizarre. The explanations as to why KC gets to excuse her behavior and why GA doesn't get any free passes is beginning to get a little ridiculous. It was HER daughter, HER car (to drive), HER that Caylee was last seen with (upon her own admission).

Just as the trial confirmed for me that Caylee's death was not accidental, this thread has confirmed for me that at least one juror knew more about the case than he/she admitted and entered the courtroom with an opinion and agenda already well formed. The extraordinary leaps the pro-verdict supporters are making are staggering in the depth and breadth of unsubstantiated rumor and misinformed bias they appear to spring from.

 

[MissJames]

Complicated grieving is more often than not extended or prolonged grieving...grieving past what's considered the "normal" period of time. We (general term) can always try and make something fit...but in this case, with Casey...her sociopathy fits just as easily in explaining her behavior. Considering she lied, stole, demonstrated a lack of empathy for anyone including her family, and had a daughter who ended up dead...I think the later has a better fit.

Because of the way my son died I was in an 8 week therapy group of people specifically for comlplicated grieving.I know what it looks like and Casey is not it.She wasn't even capable of PRETENDING she was grieving.

 

[imagirlgeek]

Dr Drew is not in the business of being accurate - it's the very nature of his profession not to be.... it's all about probably, likely, seems like, getting other opinions, etc. I saw many many instances in just a couple of weeks of watching his show, that he is incredibly inaccurate in both his openings and comments during his shows... He's "fun" but could never be considered a "source".

I agree. I was just trying to explain the way the google algorithm works because there were so many who started to think the chloroform search might have been just a fluke, or that CA might have been telling the truth. In the long run, whether Dr. Drew said it was an auto-complete, or displayed in the search results doesn't really matter since neither would have resulted in chlorophyll suggesting chloroform back in 2008.

...my nerd is starting to show. :runaway:

 

[pcrum12]

I'm just curious...What kind of "important stuff" would you expect to find? :waitasec: Maybe copies of routing numbers off the bank accounts? Like those of her grandmother or the one dedicated for her grandfather's nursing home expenses? Some stolen checks from her friends that she hadn't written YET?

Considering she had no job, didn't attend college and her life mainly consisted of texting, communicating online via social media sites and hanging out with her friends... She didn't pay ANY bills, so that wouldn't be an issue.

Seriously. What are you considering "important stuff"? I can't imagine.

her DL, pictures, you know everyday things you carry in your purse.

 

[pcrum12]

(bump):waiting:

she may have. that may be how he knew it was out of gas at the tow yard

 

[pcrum12]

FCA had run out of gas three or four times that we know of in the preceding 1.5 months, including taking George's gas cans - so it would be a natural assumption on the part of her father to assume this was why the car was towed. And she did have money - Amy's checking account - which she freely spent during this period of time. If the car was out of gas, she could have walked across the street to the nearest gas station, some 100 yards away.

We know George took gas with him, we do not know if he actually put gas in the tank.

she didn't have money from Amy's cking until the week before the 15th of July. And based on SB testimony we do know that the car wouldn not start and GA put gas in the tank and it then started

 

[MissJames]

It is what it is though. That is grief, you can't look at a guide on how to grieve and do it. There isn't doubt in my mind she was grieving... how could you birth a child and not grieve over her death?

How can a mother give birth to a child and use scalding water to punish them causing burns,over and over? How can a mother who gives birth to child put cigarettes out their back? How can a mother who gives birth to a child watch her boyfriend beat them ?
It happens every day .The difference for Caylee is that she lived with Cindy and George.They provided everything for her .I believe when they weren't around Casey tormented Caylee as we saw in that weird silent video .She knew better than to physically abuse Caylee,but we have seen pictures with bruises so it's not impossible.
JMO

 

[Sustained]

What bothered me was that prosecution didn't even show this important evidence. WHY? It made me conclude that is was very vague and would have caused doubt.

Huh ? Which trial were you watching ? Did you see FBI Agent Lowe's testimony ?

 

[beach]

her DL, pictures, normal stuff you carry in you everyday purse.

Of course she wouldn't leave her DL in the work bag that she left on the front seat of the abandoned car, she needed it in her everyday purse that she took to Target so she could go on shopping sprees and pay with stolen checks.

IMO she left that bag sitting there in plain view of the abandoned Pontiac for days HOPING the workbag/purse would tempt someone to break into it. She didn't give a flip if they took Amy's resume because that didn't benefit CASEY. What she wasn't counting on is Cindy finding that resume and using it to locate her eventually. Oops.

 

[RueMoira]

Of course she wouldn't leave her DL in the work bag that she left on the front seat of the abandoned car, she needed it in her everyday purse that she took to Target so she could go on shopping sprees and pay with stolen checks.

IMO she left that bag sitting there in plain view of the abandoned Pontiac for days HOPING the workbag/purse would tempt someone to break into it. She didn't give a flip if they took Amy's resume because that didn't benefit CASEY. What she wasn't counting on is Cindy finding that resume and using it to locate her eventually. Oops.

Also everything in the car had the death smell on it...oops I meant squirrel..err...trash. Yes that's it the trash smell.

 

[MissJames]

I'm sorry for your loss.

IMO, what was posted above was proper grieving. Grieving being handled the way it should be.

IMO, Casey was dealing with inappropriate/complicated grieving. On top of that, Casey has never had to deal with real life issues in the past, so I'm not surprised she handled it the way she did. :twocents:

Your comment was that children grieve differently .

To me it's a huge stretch to believe Casey is so special,and so different from everyone else,that no signs of grief was normal for her. And how do you know Casey never had to deal with real life issues? We heard very little about Casey as a child.
The way she dealt with her grandfather's illness was to steal from his nursing home account. How's that for dealing?
Why does Casey get a pass? Everyone in jail has a sob story .

 

[MissJames]

Also everything in the car had the death smell on it...oops I meant squirrel..err...trash. Yes that's it the trash smell.

or was it garbage :waitasec: :crazy: :banghead:

 

[IfIMay]

Huh ? Which trial were you watching ? Did you see FBI Agent Lowe's testimony ?

There's been an admittance of "watching", but not "listening". :crazy:

 

[logicalgirl]

I agree. I was just trying to explain the way the google algorithm works because there were so many who started to think the chloroform search might have been just a fluke, or that CA might have been telling the truth. In the long run, whether Dr. Drew said it was an auto-complete, or displayed in the search results doesn't really matter since neither would have resulted in chlorophyll suggesting chloroform back in 2008.

...my nerd is starting to show. :runaway:

I was only jumping off of your comments and agreeing and your "nerd" is perfect - don't change any of it!

 

[Sustained]

There's been an admittance of "watching", but not "listening". :crazy:

True, kinda like the jury. :banghead:

 

[logicalgirl]

FCA had run out of gas three or four times that we know of in the preceding 1.5 months, including taking George's gas cans - so it would be a natural assumption on the part of her father to assume this was why the car was towed. And she did have money - Amy's checking account - which she freely spent during this period of time. If the car was out of gas, she could have walked across the street to the nearest gas station, some 100 yards away.

We know George took gas with him, we do not know if he actually put gas in the tank.

I need to correct my statement here - I should have said I don't know for sure if he put actually put gas in the car - but then I'm the kind of person who always goes back to check documentation when or before I make a statement. I was mistaken - George did put gas in the car. Simon was surprised the car needed gas because it was not on the side of the road, it was neatly parked beside a dumpster at Amscot.


Simon Birch's statement can be found here:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/CMA/interviews/sburch072408.pdf

quote:
SB: I don’t know that our letter says it’s at an Amscot. I think it just gives an address, but I might be wrong.
GW: Right.
SB: But he told me when he called them it had been there, they told him it had been there for three days.
GW: Okay.
SB: So anyway, we, he, we, I took him back to his car, walked him back there, and again, he was still talking about his daughter telling lies and blah, blah, blah, and I kept sympathizing with him. And then he got his gas can and we walked back to the car a second time. And it was a small, round, very battered gas can. An old, metal one.
GW: Right.
SB: All the paint was chipped off of it. It was you know, kind of like my dad had for the lawnmower. Kind of, you know (unintelligible)...
GW: It looked like it’s had some good use with it?
SB: It’s been around. Yeah (affirmative), it’s been around, you know. And the guy was super nice. I mean he was super. He, he, you know, he was just very, he was distraught. He, he apologized about his wife’s behavior again. I said, “I totally understand dude.” I said, “You know it’s, we get it all the time. It’s no big deal. Anyway, he put the gas in the car and it fired right up.” And uh, I escorted him out of the yard and uh, he drove his car out and uh, uh, yeah (affirmative) he went, as he came by I saw him again as he came by me he, again he said, “You know, thank you. I’m sorry.” I said, “Yeah (affirmative), no problem. No problem. Have a good day now.” And uh, they conversed out here for a couple minutes, got in the car and drove away. And I went and picked up the garbage bag now...
GW: Uh-hum (affirmative).
SB: ...and brought the garbage bag back and threw it in the dumpster. Uhm.:
end of quote

 

[MissJames]

Theories only in the minds of 12 bumbling jurors who could not add 2+2. I really hope some of these "jurors" come forward and admit that they got it wrong. But I suspect that shame will always overshadow courage and we'll never hear the truth, just as we never did with FCA.

Since the first 3 jurors (I'm not counting the alternate) spoke there has been a lot of criticism about the way they came to a NG verdict,yet,not one of them has come back to justify or explain . It's really too bad they didn't come together as a group to do an interview,but I suspect the foreman and JF strongly discouraged that :loser: JMO

 

[logicalgirl]

Add me to the club please ... this whole conspiracy thing is rivaling the JFK assassination, the staged moon landing, or that 9/11 was staged by the US government.

Yes, me too - it's gotten way past the point of reason in this thread. "Just because" as a reason never did cut it with me.