The Verdict Waiting Room #2

[Prentiss]

I am so very sorry Oddsocks :cry:

 

[Amee]

Baden-Clay has pleaded not guilty in the Supreme Court in Brisbane.

The jury was given a redirection by Justice John Byrne at 3.51pm, after they had been deliberating for almost 19 hours.

The jury via a note asked for another reading to explain “the process, meaning and application of circumstantial evidence to arrive at a verdict”.

Justice Byrne reread to the jury a passage from his summing up.

“As no one claims to have seen the accused kill his wife, this is a circumstantial case. Circumstantial evidence is evidence of circumstances that can be relied upon not as proving fact directly, but instead as pointing to its existence,” he said.

“It differs from direct evidence, which tends to prove a fact directly, typically when a witness testifies about something which that witness saw or heard.

“Both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered. It is not necessary for a fact to be proved by direct evidence. They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone, by direct evidence alone or by a combination of direct and circumstantial, that is, both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable proof of facts.

“So you should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence.

“Importantly, to bring in a verdict of guilty based entirely, or substantially, on circumstantial evidence, guilt should not only be a rational inference: it must be the only rational inference that could be drawn from the circumstances.

“If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence, it is your duty to find the accused not guilty. This follows from the requirement that guilt must be established beyond reasonable doubt.”

Justice Byrne asked the jury to return to its deliberations at 3.55pm.

The jury of seven men and five women retired to consider a verdict on Thursday at 11.10am.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...me-deliberations/story-fnihsrf2-1226987798654

 

[Topsy]

I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(

I'm so sorry to hear that. So sad to lose a loved furry friend.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 1m

#BadenClay jurors asks judge how they can use circumstantial evidence to reach a verdict. @7NewsBrisbane



#BadenClay judge: "Both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered." @7NewsBrisbane


#BadenClay judge: "It is not necessary that facts be proved by direct evidence." @7NewsBrisbane


BadenClay judge: "They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone, by direct evidence alone, or by a combination of direct and (cont)


(cont) circumstantial: that is, both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable proof of facts." #BadenClay


#BadenClay judge to jury: "So you should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence." @7NewsBrisbane

#BadenClay judge: "Importantly, to bring in a verdict of guilt based entirely, or substantially, on circumstantial evidence ... (cont)


BadenClay judge to jury:"If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence, it is your duty to find the Accused not guilty."

There is no other reasonable possibility. There just isn't. Suicide - not reasonable. Stranger - not reasonable. Misadventure - not reasonable. What else is there? Murder by her husband with three fingernail scratches on his face and $900k to gain - reasonable.

 

[Humdinger]

I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(

Oh I'm so sorry to hear that big hugs to you hon xo

 

[alioop]

I would be a skinny little lizard , but harris had to go on at least one charge . it was just the sentence I was interested in

A lizard, love it! Rolf's sentence is a discrace. Hopefully it will be appealed and increased. Doesn't matter how old he is in my opinion.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Based on nothing but my imagination, I have this vision of a very recalcitrant juror whom the other jurors (and the judge when requested) wear down during the day using reasoned argument. Then, when he or she goes home for the night or weekends, he/she regains his/her impetus to challenge the reasoned argument. I hope not, but I've known many people like this.

 

[BJsleuth]

Based on nothing but my imagination, I have this vision of a very recalcitrant juror whom the other jurors (and the judge when requested) wear down during the day using reasoned argument. Then, when he or she goes home for the night or weekends, he/she regains his/her impetus to challenge the reasoned argument. I hope not, but I've known many people like this.

If it's only one the rest of the jury are usually pretty good at getting them to concede, but if there's more than one, it's much more difficult IMO.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Reasonable possibility of innocence - is this based on the defence theory or can it be anything? Ie, defence put forward suicide or serotonin syndrome but could they consider other theories? What if one of the jury suggested TMH as the perp? Would this constitute reasonable doubt about GBC? Or would it be based only on what defence has suggested? IYKWIM?

I feel like reasonable doubt seems to err on the side of the accused. Makes me very nervous.

 

[MsAnais]

Based on nothing but my imagination, I have this vision of a very recalcitrant juror whom the other jurors (and the judge when requested) wear down during the day using reasoned argument. Then, when he or she goes home for the night or weekends, he/she regains his/her impetus to challenge the reasoned argument. I hope not, but I've known many people like this.

I had the same image spring to mind Bobbie. There's often one in every group........ :facepalm:

 

[BreakingNews]

Based on nothing but my imagination, I have this vision of a very recalcitrant juror whom the other jurors (and the judge when requested) wear down during the day using reasoned argument. Then, when he or she goes home for the night or weekends, he/she regains his/her impetus to challenge the reasoned argument. I hope not, but I've known many people like this.

You may very well be correct. Depends on how determined one is.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(

oh, Oddsocks, so sorry to hear. {{hugs}} to you.

Our pets can be such an important part of our life and our family. Losing one so special is heartbreaking. Thinking of you.

 

[possumheart]

Based on nothing but my imagination, I have this vision of a very recalcitrant juror whom the other jurors (and the judge when requested) wear down during the day using reasoned argument. Then, when he or she goes home for the night or weekends, he/she regains his/her impetus to challenge the reasoned argument. I hope not, but I've known many people like this.

Yes, I have occasionally met women who only sprout their husband's opinion on politics and have no idea how to form their own opinion. If it were someone like that it could be very difficult.

I, too, send my commiserations Oddsocks. Don't forget about the rainbow bridge.

 

[squizzey1]

A lizard, love it! Rolf's sentence is a discrace. Hopefully it will be appealed and increased. Doesn't matter how old he is in my opinion.

5 years 9 months and will be out sooner , bloody appalling , I was hoping 12 years no parole , that's only 1 year per charge and what about all the others

 

[totallyintrigued]

I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(

The Rainbows Bridge Poem
RainbowBridge.com

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.
They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown...

 

[squizzey1]

Based on nothing but my imagination, I have this vision of a very recalcitrant juror whom the other jurors (and the judge when requested) wear down during the day using reasoned argument. Then, when he or she goes home for the night or weekends, he/she regains his/her impetus to challenge the reasoned argument. I hope not, but I've known many people like this.

so have I there is always one , and have seen it on a jury too

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

A lizard, love it! Rolf's sentence is a discrace. Hopefully it will be appealed and increased. Doesn't matter how old he is in my opinion.

I so agree..but don't get me started on that one. Lets just say I was appalled at the sentence. Age should not come into it- he had a chance to live his life and continue abusing, while those he abused have had & will likely have a life sentence thanks to that abuse.

 

[BreakingNews]

Once on a fraud trial, one juror said guilty before the trial even finished on one charge (there were 8 charges). 9 other jurors also said guilty on this one charge. Myself and another person said not guilty and she said to me "It's not likely that us 2 can change their minds." But we did. We divided and conquered - even the obstinate bloke. In the end he didn't care. And funny thing was, we had agreed on all the other charges - some guilty and some not guilty. The defendant was as guilty as on all charges, but not as the law stood.

 

[SwiftSleuth]

I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(

So sorry to hear that. My pets are my best friends too.

 

[Brightbird]

I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(

:hug: Be kind to yourself.