The Verdict Waiting Room

[AAAA]

The former real estate agent remained calm, with a measured voice, with his hands folded in front of him, and reiterated his denials to Mr Fuller’s minute-by-minute scenario.

Mr Fuller: “You killed your wife, Mr Baden-Clay


Mr Baden-Clay: “No, I did not.”

The prosecutor put to him that he’d attacked her and the “only way” she could respond was to lash out and claw his face, leaving angry red slashes on his right cheek.

“That is not true,” Mr Baden-Clay answered.

Mr Fuller: “Probably as you smothered her and took her life from her?”

Mr Baden-Clay: “That is not true.”

“I never did anything to physically harm my wife in any way, ever.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...dnt-kill-allison/story-e6frg6nf-1226974910462

Thanks Marly

 

[BreakingNews]

I feel for the jury

 

[Freya1977]

Marissa Calligeros ‏@marissa_sc 2m
Cont ... "you would need carefully also to consider whether the lie reveals a consciousness of guilt ..." #badenclay

 

[JK673]

no QLD school goes back on Monday

Some schools have longer or different holidays...private schools. Not EVERY school goes.back the same day.

 

[Meli33a]

The former real estate agent remained calm, with a measured voice, with his hands folded in front of him, and reiterated his denials to Mr Fuller’s minute-by-minute scenario.

Mr Fuller: “You killed your wife, Mr Baden-Clay.”

Mr Baden-Clay: “No, I did not.”

The prosecutor put to him that he’d attacked her and the “only way” she could respond was to lash out and claw his face, leaving angry red slashes on his right cheek.

“That is not true,” Mr Baden-Clay answered.

Mr Fuller: “Probably as you smothered her and took her life from her?”

Mr Baden-Clay: “That is not true.”

“I never did anything to physically harm my wife in any way, ever.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...dnt-kill-allison/story-e6frg6nf-1226974910462

Could they be interpreting the "that's not true" as 'she lashed out another way' and "that's not true" as 'I killed her another way' ????

 

[Timmy]

I feel for the jury

Was just thinking the same thing.

 

[Freya1977]

Marissa Calligeros ‏@marissa_sc 55s
"If you conclude that the accused lied because he realised that the truth would implicate him in the killing of his wife ... #badenclay
"you would need carefully also to consider whether the lie reveals a consciousness of guilt ..." #badenclay
"merely with respect to manslaughter as distinct from also revealing an intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm." #badenclay

 

[they'll get you]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 33s

Allison's friends and family are gathered here waiting for the jury to make a decision. #badenclay

Aww God love em.

 

[Tishy]

#w#h#a#t#a#r#e#y#o#u#o#n#t#i#s#h#y#?#

#mylastnerve

 

[Surfeegirl]

The former real estate agent remained calm, with a measured voice, with his hands folded in front of him, and reiterated his denials to Mr Fuller’s minute-by-minute scenario.

Mr Fuller: “You killed your wife, Mr Baden-Clay.”

Mr Baden-Clay: “No, I did not.”

The prosecutor put to him that he’d attacked her and the “only way” she could respond was to lash out and claw his face, leaving angry red slashes on his right cheek.

“That is not true,” Mr Baden-Clay answered.

Mr Fuller: “Probably as you smothered her and took her life from her?”

Mr Baden-Clay: “That is not true.”

“I never did anything to physically harm my wife in any way, ever.”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...dnt-kill-allison/story-e6frg6nf-1226974910462

and that is why they can rule out Manslaughter? I wonder if that is what was the context of the query?

 

[BreakingNews]

don't like this bit , but girls u got a female foreman for the jury

Yes, but she is only the spokesperson for 12 people collectively.

 

[squizzey1]

Some schools have longer or different holidays...private schools. Not EVERY school goes.back the same day.

true , and don't the girls go to a private school which would make it a week later

 

[JK673]

true , and don't the girls go to a private school which would make it a week later

They do...but some private schools go back at same time as state schools. So only way of knowing is looking up the term dates for each private school.

 

[AAAA]

They do...but some private schools go back at same time as state schools. So only way of knowing is looking up the term dates for each private school.

Have they moved schools? I thought they were still at Brookie?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Good, they know he lied under oath.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I am a little bit worried they may come back with a manslaughter verdict as opposed to murder(I seriously hope not, though it is a better outcome than an outright aquital. Which I don't really think will happen). Simply because, they have no cause of death really. They may agree based on the evidence that he did kill her, but whether they can prove or believe intent is another thing. They could find him guilty of killing Allison- but can they say reasonably that he intended to do it, if they have no cause of death? They don't know for sure that those scratches were inflicted by Allison as he choked or suffocated her. It is not my belief that he didn't intend to, by the way..just trying to look at it from the point of view of jury and the law... I might be missing something with it though. [/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE=sheldor]My initial thoughts back in the early days was that it could have been manslaughter if he lashed out and hit her but didn't mean to kill her, which does happen with frightening regularity actually (they call them "one punch killers"). But the problem with that scenario in this case is everything that was subsequently done to cover up the death is inconsistent with a claim that he didn't mean to kill her. Usually where it's a one punch death the issue is not whether the perp killed the victim, it's whether they intended to.

sheldor, Yes, however, from a legal point of view, just because he covered up after the fact does not mean he actually intended to kill in the first place. I know I think the same as you with all that he did, just trying to look at it purely from the way the law may view it- what the judge instructed the jurors and how they may interpret it. JMO


[/QUOTE=BritsKate]No COD isn't unheard of in murder trials....recently, many convictions have occurred without even a body. A few years back, a very sad case I followed was that of Michigan's Venus Stewart. She'd tried for years to leave her abusive husband and finally escaped. He set a guy up to pose as himself while he drove to Michigan and abducted her in broad daylight (there were no witnesses). Venus is missing from her girls and her parents to this day.

No blood, no DNA, no COD and no body - he was convicted of her murder.

The jury will ask what are the chances he scratched himself the day she went missing, what are the chances she committed suicide, what are the chances a man who flat out stated he wanted out of his marriage could have the overwhelming misfortune to suffer a missing wife, a scratched face, blood in a car, leaves in her hair - all of which apparently implicate him in something much more sinister - if he wasn't involved.

But they'll also, imo, weigh how she didn't die. They may be missing a minute by minute timeline but we know she wasn't stabbed or shot, she didn't have a terminal illness, she didn't have a heart attack, she didn't jump off a bridge and the one method of death raised by the defence was proven as extremely unlikely (overdose). The prosecution has proffered smothering - which fits the evidence - to which a jury will have to question (in my optimism) how he could not have intended to kill her in the many minutes it takes to literally smother the life from someone.

I'll be shocked, saddened, and confused if the verdict is guilty of anything other than murder - the facts of this case don't fit anything else, in my opinion.

All JMO [/QUOTE]


BrisKate, I agree its not always necessary to have a COD to convict of murder. I can't comment on the case you spoke of, as I don't know it or wht other circumstances or evidence surrounded it(And US law often differs from Australian). In this case I was just taking into account the judges words, the circumstancial evidence- all the evidence, AND the fact there is no cause of death. That if the jury is at all unsure (reasonable doubt) about his guilt of murder, that they may convict on manslaughter- not having cause of death was one of the factors that I thought may sway them that way. If they think he killed her, but unsure whether he intended to do so, not having cause of death may influence that decision. MOO. ANyways, It was just a bad feeling I had last night about the verdict. I am feeling a little more optomistic for a guilty of murder verdict today. But I guess we can only wait and see and hope.


Good Morning and sorry for the too long post! trying to reply to a couple of posts from last thread- without being able to quote properly..
Squizzy, did you save some donuts?

 

[BJsleuth]

Could they be interpreting the "that's not true" as 'she lashed out another way' and "that's not true" as 'I killed her another way' ????

That is exactly how I was just reading that! It seemed like "That's not how it happened!"

 

[Freya1977]

Ebony Cavallaro ‏@ebonycavallaro 25s
Everytime there's movement of lawyers, detectives & family members the nervous anxiety of the crowd is felt outside court room #badenclay

 

[Timmy]

They do...but some private schools go back at same time as state schools. So only way of knowing is looking up the term dates for each private school.

....or read STELLA85's post.

 

[Snails]

They do...but some private schools go back at same time as state schools. So only way of knowing is looking up the term dates for each private school.

Some private schools took an extra week before the state school holidays and some have taken an extra week after the state school holidays.