The wait for closing arguments discussion thread

[daisy.faithfull]

Also I live here in Arizona but I see Canadians wearing heavy clothes to hockey games all the time. I don't think I have ever seen one of them wearing shorts or a bikini. I've never seen anyone wear a ski jacket, but i dont think the hockey arena isn't as cold as it was in Ontario, Canada on April 8th, 2009.

When we thought that the Coyotes were going back to Canada at the end of last season, I know that more than one of the guys did not want to return to the weather up there. And JR isn't the only one that is going to retire here. It's cold up there.

 

[Ardy]

The Crown knew about the grandmother, and what she would testify to, so if they could refute her testimony by bringing in school officials to testify that TLM couldn't have entered the school...........why didn't they?

Wouldn't the school office staff be able to categorically say that visitors can't get into our school? Wouldn't they want to assure parents that people can't just enter the elementary school and wander the halls at will?

Nobody.......nothing......from the Crown.

I think they knew TLM could.........and did.........enter the school.

Why she went inside is conjecture, but I believe she was looking for VS.

JMO...........

 

[brighidin]

I think it is disrespectful to Tori, and all the other children killed by child predators, to say that anyone who knows about stranger danger would not go with a stranger (or however it has been phrased.) Predators know that kids will go look for a lost puppy; that is why they use that lie as a lure. Do you think Kristen French was stupid for wanting to help a seemingly normal couple with directions? Predators know what lines to use to lure their victims away.

IMO, it doesn't matter if Tori had seen TLM in passing, with or without her dog. It doesn't negate the following pieces of information: that Tori was in MR's car; that he transported her without her parent's knowledge; that her DNA was fund in his car; that he was at the place of her death; that she is dead. It also does not explain why, if as some like to claim, he was an unwilling and unknowing dupe, that he did nothing about this horrendous crime.

I don't think that Tori knew TLM, but I don't understand why, if they were hypothetically acquainted with each other, that would be a game changer for some. You can be kidnapped by someone you know. Besides, even though TLM took Tori to the car, it was MR's car and he drove it away. He kidnapped her too.

 

[Ardy]

Also I live here in Arizona but I see Canadians wearing heavy clothes to hockey games all the time. I don't think I have ever seen one of them wearing shorts or a bikini. I've never seen anyone wear a ski jacket, but i dont think the hockey arena isn't as cold as it was in Ontario, Canada on April 8th, 2009.

When we thought that the Coyotes were going back to Canada at the end of last season, I know that more than one of the guys did not want to return to the weather up there. And JR isn't the only one that is going to retire here. It's cold up there.

Wimpy Canadians is all I can say.

I have played in arenas where my feet froze solid.

We Canadians are so hot blooded, our ice melts during the games.

Is Gretz still there? Met his dad about 10 times over the years......great guy.

Would love to buy a place in Arizona..........but ownership is compiicated there......no mortgages for Canadians.

We own land in Saskatchewan.........not nearly as nice as Arizona........lol.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

The Crown knew about the grandmother, and what she would testify to, so if they could refute her testimony by bringing in school officials to testify that TLM couldn't have entered the school...........why didn't they?

Wouldn't the school office staff be able to categorically say that visitors can't get into our school? Wouldn't they want to assure parents that people can't just enter the elementary school and wander the halls at will?

Nobody.......nothing......from the Crown.

I think they knew TLM could.........and did.........enter the school.

Why she went inside is conjecture, but I believe she was looking for VS.

JMO...........

Even if school officials could say that TLM wouldn't be able to get into the school, that doesn't mean she didn't do it. Especially since TLM didn't stand out, she looked to others just like a mother picking up her child.

And then as to why there weren't any school officials that saw TLM come into the school, just because no one saw her, doesn't mean she wasn't there. Obviously TLM blended in.

It's horrifying, but monsters get away with this stuff. They come into people's homes, like what happened to Elizabeth Smart or Polly Klaus. They are molested and killed by neighbors no one could even imagine capable of something so hideous, as with Sandra Cantu. They are there for that one time a child takes a short cut, as with Amber Dubois. And they are there on the one day that a child gets to walk to or from school for the very first time, like Ethan Patz, and :moo: Tory.

It just takes a quick moment for this stuff to happen, and a lot of times it happens in broad daylight. You'd think this wouldn't be possible, but it is. It just takes one desperate monster who isn't thinking about consequences to make the attempt, and sadly since methods to keep our children safe are not full proof they succeed.

 

[brighidin]

I appreciate the hyperbole, but 8C isn't hot, and it isn't that odd to see people wearing winter coats when it is slightly above zero in early April.

TLM was an addict. Maybe the drugs made her body systems all wonky. Maybe she got the chills all the time. We don't know.

I'm glad she wore that stupid jacket. It helped people ID her and now she is in jail where she belongs and MR is going to follow in her footsteps.

imo

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Wimpy Canadians is all I can say.

I have played in arenas where my feet froze solid.

We Canadians are so hot blooded, our ice melts during the games.

Is Gretz still there? Met his dad about 10 times over the years......great guy.

Would love to buy a place in Arizona..........but ownership is compiicated there......no mortgages for Canadians.

We own land in Saskatchewan.........not nearly as nice as Arizona........lol.

Gretzky finally left and since he left we have actually gone to the playoffs every year since his departure. Great hockey player, but I don't think he knows how to coach, it's because of him that we are in the situation we are in now where we might lose our team. This is a very difficult time for me right now. We might lose The Coyotes and it's because they were so freeking horrible before Tippett became head couch.

And I have friends from Alaska and they get cold, but not as cold as I do. And while I was in Washington I was the only one wearing a sweater all year round, but when it got to be heavy coat weather they wore heavy coats just like me.😊. My relatives from Buffalo wore them too. My grandmother wore these ghastly fur coats and those suckers are seriously heavy.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Curious?
When the lawyers are discussing issues with the jury gone, does everyone in galley hear what is happening?
I thought this would be considered sidebar and only the judge, lawyers, and court reporter would be involved. Or is the press hearing these issues and waiting for the bans to be lifted when the jury is sequestered.
I am curious to see if and what Derstine was able to suppress in the crown's evidence, ie: MR's laptop that was found in his vehicle.

If MR is found guilty and appeals his sentence, how would this information being released effect a new trial?

Thanks. Appreciate all the tweets and links.

The press is there. They just can't report until the jury is there.

 

[Ardy]

Gretzky finally left and since he left we have actually gone to the playoffs every year since his departure. Great hockey player, but I don't think he knows how to coach, it's because of him that we are in the situation we are in now where we might lose our team. This is a very difficult time for me right now. We might lose The Coyotes and it's because they were so freeking horrible before Tippett became head couch.

And I have friends from Alaska and they get cold, but not as cold as I do. And while I was in Washington I was the only one wearing a sweater all year round, but when it got to be heavy coat weather they wore heavy coats just like me.��. My relatives from Buffalo wore them too. My grandmother wore these ghastly fur coats and those suckers are seriously heavy.

Gretzky probably has his hands full these days with his daughter in the habit of posting racy pictures of herself on her website.........what's the matter with kids these days?

I have always been told that our blood thins to adapt to our surroundings.

It is always interesting to see the guys from the Caribbean come up to work each year..........they are wearing layers of clothing......in the summer.........

Night all............

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Gretzky probably has his hands full these days with his daughter in the habit of posting racy pictures of herself on her website.........what's the matter with kids these days?

I have always been told that our blood thins to adapt to our surroundings.

It is always interesting to see the guys from the Caribbean come up to work each year..........they are wearing layers of clothing......in the summer.........

Night all............

Omg I know! I can't believe that! What is wrong with that girl. I've heard nothing but good things about Gretsky, but that's not the case with his wife. Very sad. I hope that she doesn't get involved in other stuff celebs do when they wild like that.

Goodnight!

 

[Hello_Kitty]

What I'm trying to understand is why Rodney keeps saying this. Either he has already heard certain testimony that the ban has prevented us from hearing thus far and is watching the defense imply that MR wasn't responsible or this evidence has not been permitted in court for whatever reason. Why is he not satisfied with TLM's account on what happened that day. He has definitely not heard a word from MR, as we haven't, so what does he know that he is stating "we will never know the truth" Is it possible that he thinks, as I have since the start, that Tori was taken for profit and both TLM and MR are covering it so people won't come and kill them? He was a pimp and that testimony floored me because that motif would make total sense and the girl that testified to that, did it WILLINGLY for a reason. He keeps talking about all the lies, which tells me he does not believe fully TLM's account of the events of April 8th to which he can't voice for whatever reason.

BBM

That was my belief from the beginning, that she was taken for profit. It would make sense what TLM said MR said in the car when he said "you know I'm going to ****** her right"?(these were TLM's words, I didn't make them up) Why would he need to say that if they were just taking TS for themselves for a thrill kill.

 

[otto]

If the grandmother's memory was tainted by information that she had seen on the news..........it would be the information she testified to about TLM walking down the street with VS.

There was no information anywhere, at any time, about TLM entering the school.

This witness is the first time that information has been heard.

JMO..........

Check it out: 2009 top fashion item: Puffy White Coat

http://fashion.covermagazin.com/?p=325

Weird that TLM was the only person in Woodstock to own one.

 

[otto]

It's interesting to see that the witness thought it was a warm day and that, according to her, no one was wearing a warm coat except the drug addict. Because the witness thought it was a warm day, all sorts of claims are made about 8 C being warm for Canadians. That is absurd. 8 C is cold, even in Canada. It's not as cold as sometimes, with the -40 C, but it's still cold and everyone but teenagers dresses properly in cold weather. Teenagers don't care how cold it is - they often go outside in very cold weather without a coat ... because they think it's cool.

 

[snoofer]

At 8 years old, school out and a party in front of me I would have been skipping down the road too. At 8 years old I would have been flattered by a teenage girl's attention. At 8 years old I didn't know that monsters came in all shapes and sizes. JMO

AND I believe it was "the puppy" she thought she was going to see if she was skipping and happy. BECAUSE if TLM said anything about babysitting...I think TLM would have stopped right then and there and said WAIT! Tori KNEW her friends were coming over. This would have stopped Tori right in her tracks to question this with TLM. You would have seen an immediate pause from Tori...not skipping and happy. MOO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

JMO, but the key point for me from today's testimony was that the witness saw Tori acting very comfortable with the person in the video.

Well she was going to see a puppy...


Just catching up, sorry if someone else answered this.


Not related to this post... IMO TLM was walking pretty fast in the video, it's possible that Tori was skipping<---as the grandma said) to keep up with her, Tori seemed to be lagging a bit behind.

 

[snoofer]

My husband just brought up something ... So he was without his pants for at least half hour ... Why? Just wondering if it was so brisk and cold ... Why would he have taking off his pants when he did not need to. Just saying ...

thinking that with all the drugs and adrenalin going he might not have been cold.MOO

 

[snoofer]

BBM

That was my belief from the beginning, that she was taken for profit. It would make sense what TLM said MR said in the car when he said "you know I'm going to ****** her right"?(these were TLM's words, I didn't make them up) Why would he need to say that if they were just taking TS for themselves for a thrill kill.

yes and the "rape" was just an added bonus for MTR if that statement is true which I believe it is. MOO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I have always wondered about that as well.

Here you supposedly have a guy walking around with no pants on, on a farm lane that he doesn't know at any minute the farmer is going to drive down. He also doesn't know if the neighbour across the road from the lane saw him drive in and called the owner........or the police.

Not exactly the typical scenario a pedophile would choose, I would think.

But, I guess it goes along with the rest of the story, where he kidnaps a young girl, drives 50 miles away to score some drugs and chat with an old friend, stop for a tea and some cash, buy a hammer and bags.........and head down a farm lane that he hopes is unoccupied and he won't be noticed going into.

He also hopes he isn't stopped by LE for some reason all along the way and that nobody notices a young girl in the backseat, and that TLM won't chicken out and let VS go,............and that his new "girlfriend", the heavily drug using TLM will keep their little secret.......just between them......long after he has dumped her.

Incredible story.....more incredible than the defense version I think.

To believe that story I would pretty much have to see MR standing at the ATM camera with drool coming out of his mouth.

JMO.............

Regarding that it is difficult to believe that a man is going to get out of the car without his pants on... Yes, he must have been cold, but if he's having sex in his car when he first met TLM it sound like he doesn't care about much when he is getting what he wants when it comes to that kind of stuff.

However, being that it was cold out and there was snow on the ground it makes it even less likely that MTR would go walking far enough away to not know what TLM was doing.

And then when it comes to it being stupid of him to chose that location because there was a chance he could have been caught... There is always that risk, but I think taking that kind of risk does fit the profile of these kinda people. Like I've said before predators will go into peoples home, snatch up children in broad daylight and take other risks like that.

I think MTR and TLM had discussed something like what they did but they did not plan it out. By the time MTR had Tori he was not thinking rationally, I think he was focused on one thing. That's why he took Toi when he went to get his drugs, he didn't think about the video camera at the ATM, why he didn't think twice about driving a car that sticks out a whole lot more than other etc. I think that probably that location was the first place he thought of and he went with it.

That's why these monsters do what they do. They aren't just monsters, they are monsters with no impulse control that do not think about consequences. Kinda like how obviously MTR wasn't too concerned about getting caught when he was a pimp even though escorting was illegal when he was doing it or buying drugs. He just thought about the money and his need for drugs. It's like that except much, much, much worse.

 

[snoofer]

Also I live here in Arizona but I see Canadians wearing heavy clothes to hockey games all the time. I don't think I have ever seen one of them wearing shorts or a bikini. I've never seen anyone wear a ski jacket, but i dont think the hockey arena isn't as cold as it was in Ontario, Canada on April 8th, 2009.

When we thought that the Coyotes were going back to Canada at the end of last season, I know that more than one of the guys did not want to return to the weather up there. And JR isn't the only one that is going to retire here. It's cold up there.

When it is plus 8 here and sunny with no wind, in my yard can sit in just a T-shirt and feel warm. But we are surrounded by trees and such. If I were to go to town it is windier and unsheltered and I would wear a coat. In the evening I would definately still wear a winter coat. MOO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Check it out: 2009 top fashion item: Puffy White Coat

http://fashion.covermagazin.com/?p=325

Weird that TLM was the only person in Woodstock to own one.

I would never get a white coat. it would show dirt and get dirty very quickly.

Didn't Tara have a white jacket like that? Not because I think Tara had anything to do with the abduction, but just that if she did it supports the fact that that jacket was very popular.