The wait for closing arguments discussion thread

[roseofsharon]

I have always wondered about that as well.

Here you supposedly have a guy walking around with no pants on, on a farm lane that he doesn't know at any minute the farmer is going to drive down. He also doesn't know if the neighbour across the road from the lane saw him drive in and called the owner........or the police.

Not exactly the typical scenario a pedophile would choose, I would think.

But, I guess it goes along with the rest of the story, where he kidnaps a young girl, drives 50 miles away to score some drugs and chat with an old friend, stop for a tea and some cash, buy a hammer and bags.........and head down a farm lane that he hopes is unoccupied and he won't be noticed going into.

He also hopes he isn't stopped by LE for some reason all along the way and that nobody notices a young girl in the backseat, and that TLM won't chicken out and let VS go,............and that his new "girlfriend", the heavily drug using TLM will keep their little secret.......just between them......long after he has dumped her.

Incredible story.....more incredible than the defense version I think.

To believe that story I would pretty much have to see MR standing at the ATM camera with drool coming out of his mouth.

JMO.............

He didn't worry about utilizing this road for the scene of a murder though. Who was he worried about then. I'm sure he if was to have gotten caught with his pants down, he would have said he needed a washroom break. We know this road and its surroudnings were TS's resting spot.
He wasn't worried about being caught bagging and burying an innocent little girl ... his lawyer even put him there doing that!! MOO

 

[snoofer]

Fortunately the coat had many others DNA on it and none of his POF friends (after April 8th) claimed they wore it. So it sounds like it wasn't washed after April 8th IMO.

Still could have been washed after april 8th with all the ciggy smoke and cats in that house...cats are slobbery and it would be never ending battle against cat hair and cat slobber let alone all the other stuff MTR did in a run of a day. MOO

If I had four cats.....and I sooooooo would NOT have four cats....I would be washing that dang thing every second day!!!! MOO

 

[Thinkzerz]

Good point snoofer. It was found hanging in the closet of a home with four cats and they didn't find any cat hair on it either?

MOO

I can't find the article or tweet. I could be wrong but this is a good point to assume the coat was washed NO cat hair and hung up. I agree.

 

[snoofer]

Isn't every day a warm day in a hot flash?

pretty much Otto; pretty much. :O)

 

[otto]

otto posted a link to the weather of that day. IIRC, it was 8 degrees.

As most Canadians know, the weather can change from one day to the next. We had a week in March where the temperatures went up to 27 degrees. 2 days later we got snow. So there you go.....unreliable weather.

At 7 or 8 degrees, I'm still wearing a coat. Ironically, I watched what kids wore to school this morning and the little ones still had tuques (hats) on.

You can see that the other parent (although blurred image) is also wearing a heavy jacket.

http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=64826

The low was -2, median was 4 and high was 8.

This is other info for the same day:

Wind Speed 16 km/h
Max Wind Speed 33 km/h
Max Gust Speed 52 km/h
Visibility 20.5 kilometers
Events Snow

At 3 PM, with the windchill, it was 4 C

3:00 PM 8.0 °C 4.2 °C -7.0 °C
34% 1002.1 hPa 24.1 km WNW 27.8 km/h / 7.7 m/s 37.0 km/h / 10.3 m/s N/A Scattered Clouds

http://www.wunderground.com/history...eq_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA&MR=1

 

[Kamille]

He didn't worry about utilizing this road for the scene of a murder though. Who was he worried about then. I'm sure he if was to have gotten caught with his pants down, he would have said he needed a washroom break. We know this road and its surroudnings were TS's resting spot.
He wasn't worried about being caught bagging and burying an innocent little girl ... his lawyer even put him there doing that!! MOO

Good points roseofsharon. Not to mention he had TLM out there playing lookout during the sexual assaults.

MOO

 

[roseofsharon]

If you look at the images of TLM and MR that day at bank machine and in home depot there jackets were not zipped up. It was chilly not winter cold. This is why I am saying the white 3 tier jacket may have stuck out to the Granny witness. Not that it matters Tori was taken weather TLM went in the school or not. But i don't think the Granny witness is lying about why the jacket stuck out JMO

MR wearing pea coat and a scarf at bank machine, but you are right, it matters not!! MOO

 

[otto]

I can't find the article or tweet. I could be wrong but this is a good point to assume the coat was washed NO cat hair and hung up. I agree.

I would never put a pea coat in the washing machine. They have to be dry cleaned or they completely lose their shape and quality.

 

[snoofer]

I would never put a pea coat in the washing machine. They have to be dry cleaned or they completely lose their shape and quality.

mmmmm tend to agree if it was an expensive one, tend to agree unless you have four cats and that would get expensive, tend to agree except can you imagine what that coat would look like if not washed regularly? It would be a veritable abominable snowman of various cat hair colors. It was black and MTR was prob the type to just toss it at his house MOO.

I have risked washing something many times even though it says to dry clean only; as the alternative of doing nothing would be..not acceptable. And many times it turns out it is ok to wash that dry clean only item. MOO Also I have been known to vacuum a coat and they also have very cheap hand steamers now. JMO Also I have been known to hand wipe a coat and brush it. :O)

Lol, now if it is MY own, and possibly very expensive coat; it might be the one that makes it to the drycleaners ;O)

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I started reading yesterday's trial thread right after work until bedtime I want to thank everyone for posting throughout this trial. Its unfortunate by the time I'm here my posts are mote and happy others of like mind have pretty much said what I wanted to.

I'm really unhappy that after a 4 day break they weren't prepared to get one witness thru and to closings yesterday and today???? that is ridicolous, have they been too on time that they need another break to take it into next week? This all in the public's view, I for one will be making sure I bring it up to my MP. When you have an unsequestered Jury and such a high profile case why take the added burden of risk?
I'm sure this Jury would like to just get to the end at this point without unnecessarily drawing it out.. and that is my opinion. Not saying to rush here... but sheesh another break??? after one witness... to prepare for a closing that I have a feeling is not going to be much since the defense can't talk about what 'he never proved' (that MR was duped and oblivious to where, what he was involved in) imo

mystic

It is standard practice in Canada to allow a few extra days after the both sides have rested to prepare their closing. I am sure the closings are well prepared, and the additional days will help them fine tune their closings.

The main reason the media is not allowed to report anything when the jurors are not present in the court is simply because the jurors are not sequestered, so there really isn't any risk to jurors when they go home at night to see or hear something that they hadn't already heard during court. Generally this is why a publication is automatically put in place prior to any trial, so that potential jurors are not influenced by media.

The Defence has never had to prove anything, it is the Crown's burden to prove what happened. The Defence's sole job is to show, not even prove, just show reasonable doubt.

 

[myzzy]

Good morning,

I do think the last witness was testifying that the woman in the white jacket stood out to her because she felt it was too warm for the jacket. It stood out to her period. This is the only reason. Not that it was hot or cold but that the woman in the white jacket stood out

 

[Kamille]

I would never put a pea coat in the washing machine. They have to be dry cleaned or they completely lose their shape and quality.

Well first of all we don't know if the coat was a WOOL pea coat. It's being called a pea coat because of the double breasted front but it doesn't have the collar and structure of most actual pea coats I've seen.

Nevertheless, even if it is a wool pea coat, they can be washed on the wool or delicate cycle of a machine (very little agitation) and hung to dry.

MOO

 

[otto]

mmmmm tend to agree if it was an expensive one, tend to agree unless you have four cats and that would get expensive, tend to agree except can you imagine what that coat would look like if not washed regularly? It would be a veritable abominable snowman of various cat hair colors. It was black and MTR was prob the type to just toss it at his house MOO.

I have risked washing something many times even though it says to dry clean only; as the alternative of doing nothing would be..not acceptable. And many times it turns out it is ok to wash that dry clean only item. MOO

MR used his car for just about everything and it didn't seem to bother him. He doesn't strike me as particularly conscientious or clean, so I would expect the coat to have almost stood up by itself. I could see him having the coat cleaned after the murder, or maybe he used a lint roller regularly. He was prepared to throw away a car seat to hide the evidence, so he was aware of where evidence would be found. He was probably attached to the coat and he seemed to know that it didn't contain much in the way of evidence. Other than having it in the back seat of the car before the murder, he may have moved the coat before the assault to ensure that it wasn't covered in evidence.

 

[Tink]

Here you supposedly have a guy walking around with no pants on, on a farm lane that he doesn't know at any minute the farmer is going to drive down. He also doesn't know if the neighbour across the road from the lane saw him drive in and called the owner........or the police.

Not exactly the typical scenario a pedophile would choose, I would think.

But, I guess it goes along with the rest of the story, where he kidnaps a young girl, drives 50 miles away to score some drugs and chat with an old friend, stop for a tea and some cash, buy a hammer and bags.........and head down a farm lane that he hopes is unoccupied and he won't be noticed going into.

He also hopes he isn't stopped by LE for some reason all along the way and that nobody notices a young girl in the backseat, and that TLM won't chicken out and let VS go,............and that his new "girlfriend", the heavily drug using TLM will keep their little secret.......just between them......long after he has dumped her.

Incredible story.....more incredible than the defense version I think.

To believe that story I would pretty much have to see MR standing at the ATM camera with drool coming out of his mouth.


Incredible? Really???

Let's say the farmer saw him drive into the laneway. He's going to assume that either he's taking his girlfriend there for sex or (possibly) to take photos or do drugs or whatever. It's not really going to harm the farmer's property. Why would he call the police? I grew up on a farm, and trust me, that stuff happens all the time. And frankly, if you called the police and said that you saw someone drive into your empty field - well, if they did show up it would be hours and hours later.

Let's say the worst happened and the farmer drove into the field and saw the guy with his pants off. He's going to assume he's either having sex with TLM or that he needed to go to the bathroom. But if they heard a tractor coming, MR could get back in the car, go behind a tree, whatever. TLM was dressed and watching out for just that eventuality, but it's not likely that at that time of year a farmer will show up.

Sure, there's always a risk of being stopped by LE. But that's unlikely, especially on those fairly deserted country roads. I'm sure he avoided speeding or anything that would attracted LE attention.

Did he have to trust TLM? I think he believed in his own ability to manipulate her. I think he believed that she'd be loyal to him (she'd said she'd "take the fall") because he recognized how needy she was. "A little bit of love."

Tink

 

[Thinkzerz]

MR used his car for just about everything and it didn't seem to bother him. He doesn't strike me as particularly conscientious or clean, so I would expect the coat to have almost stood up by itself. I could see him having the coat cleaned after the murder, or maybe he used a lint roller regularly. He was prepared to throw away a car seat to hide the evidence, so he was aware of where evidence would be found. He was probably attached to the coat and he seemed to know that it didn't contain much in the way of evidence. Other than having it in the back seat of the car before the murder, he may have moved the coat before the assault to ensure that it wasn't covered in evidence.

He did have a lint roller in his gym bag but i would guess it was tested?

 

[snoofer]

IMO criminals in jail all over the world are banging their heads against the bars thinking...dumb! Why didn't I ______________________. MOO And many criminals who have not yet been caught; are smiling like a cheshire cat at their cunningness! JMO

 

[Thinkzerz]

Why wouldn't MR tell police were the hammer is to clear his name? (finger prints)

 

[snoofer]

He did have a lint roller in his gym bag but i would guess it was tested?

the tape lint rollers..you use it then peel that sheet off and throw it out. MOO They come in I believe 30 sheet rolls or maybe 50. JMO

 

[Thinkzerz]

Was MR shoes thrown from the car window or were they found at TLM's?

 

[Flossie JMO]

MTR/mother owned many CATS. Would not surprise me to find out that they owned a "tape roller lint brush" to get rid of cat hair. MOO It is very common for people to use those brushes on a pea coat; especially with cats in the house. JMO

You may be right. I also lint brush myself every day when I leave. However we did hear about the 2 blonde hairs on the coat. JMO ONLY