The wait for closing arguments discussion thread

[otto]

nuttin' heavier than a very stylish hoodie here and fabric scarf. Plus 7, overcast, wind is "still". But the plan is yardwork and a walk. Sweaty stuff! MOO

The first person I encountered this morning was a 20 something woman wearing a white puffy coat - truly funny. I was wishing that I had a camera and internet in my pocket ... but I didn't.

 

[Flossie JMO]

Thanks, but I should have been clearer. I meant evidence that the $400 ripoff had anything to do with TLM, MTR, CM or anyone TLM might have been associated with. Derstine had her on the stand, the fact that there was a bad drug transaction was put on the record by the crown, but I don't recall him asking her a single question about it. Has it been established that TLM or MTR or CM or any of the players were anything other than users?

I think we made some assumptions when we heard about the cash in his car, but we've since heard evidence that the money may have come from the escort.

Ok thanks, bbm, I think we will hear about who the debt was to and JMO ONLY that info must be under the publication ban. JMO ONLY. We will hear, JMO ONLY and JMO a rip off could be connected in the ripped person's mind, to a mother and child. And there is evidence parties knew each other. Sorry not clear what I might be missing. JMO ONLY

 

[Heliotrope]

JMO, not me. If I believed in a loved one's innocence I would support them and arrange calls when allowed, and write, and visit, and express my love and support, privately. I would never subject myself to the press and public and "angry mob" imo folks, JMO ONLY

Funny, most Moms I know would 'subject' themselves to a pack of pissed-off pitbulls if it was for their child's sake. JMO ONLY.

 

[gardenia]

<modsnip> question the defence's witness' testimony! She has no bias ... she is just a lady who saw something a bit unusual & made a mental note of it. To question her because in one interview she said the pants were dark, and in another said they were black (?) or blue (?). Or to question her credibility because of some minute details from the interviews ... wow!

<modsnip>... I don't get it!

 

[Flossie JMO]

I sat here thinking about the juror's today, I have to wonder if after they render a verdict and they are allowed to watch the news and such again, if they will pour over all the newspaper articles, go back to the beginning of this case and read every little bit of info available? I think I would! I can't imagine how this will affect the rest of their lives. It has obviously affected all of us here, but for someone in their position...wow.

I have also wondered if after all is said and done if there will be interviews done with Tara and Rodney and maybe they will be more open to say what has been on their minds exactly through this. I am sure in the next two weeks when we finally hear what has all been discussed during legal arguments, etc. we will have some questions answered and some gaps filled.

D<modsnip>...I wonder every day how he copes with in day to day life especially the last two months. May he feel his sister wrapping her arms around him!

bbm, Amen, God bless that sweet boy, his loss of his wonderful sister Tori is one I truly believe he will not ever get over, none of her loved ones ever will, it's horrific JMO ONLY

 

[snoofer]

Funny, most Moms I know would 'subject' themselves to a pack of pissed-off pitbulls if it was for their child's sake. JMO ONLY.

yes if it was my kid and i thought he/she was railroaded i would be there and in the news, whatever it took...but maybe there was extenuating circumstances for them. I don't know. But it sure does look bad for MTR without them there. Very telling. MOO If I thought my kid was guilty; FORGET it I would NOT be there. MOO IMO possibly this was the staw that broke the camels back from the ENORMOUS load of straws it has been carrying for a very long time. JMO

 

[Macright]

The first person I encountered this morning was a 20 something woman wearing a white puffy coat - truly funny. I was wishing that I had a camera and internet in my pocket ... but I didn't.

respectfully...memo to myself..with all the talk I have heard about "white fluffy coats" please god give me the strength to never purchase one....JMO of course unless one weighs in under 100lb...they look like the Pillsbury Doughboy or a giant marshmallow ... so I guess that would eliminate me ...just saying..... by the way in my neck of the woods today it was 9C and I ventured out in a very lightweight jacket....winter clothing all put away...

 

[snoofer]

The first person I encountered this morning was a 20 something woman wearing a white puffy coat - truly funny. I was wishing that I had a camera and internet in my pocket ... but I didn't.

haha and guess what! My bestbud who always dresses like a polar bear as she is always cold....she wore only a pink hoodie today!! Was beautiful here with no wind.

 

[Macright]

I simply cannot believe how many posters question the defence's witness' testimony! She has no bias ... she is just a lady who saw something a bit unusual & made a mental note of it. To question her because in one interview she said the pants were dark, and in another said they were black (?) or blue (?). Or to question her credibility because of some minute details from the interviews ... wow!

Yet some posters quote TLM's testimony like it is the gospel ... I don't get it!

I think you forgot to add she is a grandmother who picks up her grandchildren everyday and she is 60 years old!!!! just saying... not a druggie or someone lusting for blood.... sad isn't it....JMO

 

[Heliotrope]

Ok thanks, bbm, I think we will hear about who the debt was to and JMO ONLY that info must be under the publication ban. JMO ONLY. We will hear, JMO ONLY and JMO a rip off from JG would be connected in the ripped person's mind, to TS and TM. And there is evidence JG and TM and TLM and her Mom were connected. Sorry not clear what I might be missing. JMO ONLY

So many JMOs.

No, I get they were connected; it was stated that they bought Oxy from CM on several occasions, their phone number at TLM's house, discussed breeding their dogs and ultimately decided against it, etc.

My question was regarding drug debt, as I'm trying to piece together in my mind what the jurors will be able to consider as evidence. I think the consensus on the board was there was no evidence of it presented during the trial, during cross of TM, TLM or any defence witnesses.

 

[crazyladi]

lmao I bet they did coach her; for a lot of good it did. As she changed her testimony at the last month and left everyone scrambling! Uncoachable! JMO

Geesh, who was the unlucky one who got that job?? If how she ran circles around Genest was any indication; the coach sure earned their pay!! MOO

To be honest considering her personality I think she did pretty good. Any of those questions she could have snapped but she didn't she held her own.

 

[thisgirl]

I simply cannot believe how many posters question the defence's witness' testimony! She has no bias ... she is just a lady who saw something a bit unusual & made a mental note of it. To question her because in one interview she said the pants were dark, and in another said they were black (?) or blue (?). Or to question her credibility because of some minute details from the interviews ... wow!

Yet some posters quote TLM's testimony like it is the gospel ... I don't get it!

unfortunately for the defence i dont really think even if 100% accurate this person testimony means anything at all in the grand scheme of things. what does it change? the lack of what it means to me however speaks volumes & I hope does the same for the jury. imo

 

[crazyladi]

I've been following this case on this website since the beginning. I read almost everything...yet rarely post. I did a google search and found something interesting - which may or may not have something to do with Rodney's frustration in terms of looking for the truth. First is a link to a news story about TM, JG and someone named Brandon who were arrested for dealing drugs in September 2011 ( crack cocaine etc. )

http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/...tock-drug-arrests-mcdonald-110928?hub=SWOHome

This Brandon name made me think about a couple of other things:

1) the name found written and scratched out along with T & J phone number by LE at TLM house (picture here)

Picture 33 of 111

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/04/19594746.html

2) Wasn't there some reference to a person named Brandon and Canadian Tire in Rafferty's first interview with police ??

It just seams to me that this drug trafficing circle is/was a whole lot more closely linked than what has been presented in court. Maybe there will be more to come after the publication ban is lifted.

Also just wondering... where is ChaChaCha ?? I haven't seen any comments from this person in a long time.... or have I just missed them ?

Wow good catch.

 

[gardenia]

RE: drug debt theory ... I don't really think that TLM was on anyone's mission other than her own. I can't imagine even the most stoned-out drug dealer getting her to do any "dirty work" for them ... let's face it, she gets caught A LOT!

 

[Flossie JMO]

A few questions I have, that I think will be answered one day:

"Ms. McDonald told Ms. Mulligan in an interview aired last evening that she has revised her belief that a stranger took her daughter, and now
agrees with friends who "feel somebody who we know has taken Tori and they have no idea, they were just being mildly vindictive, and it
went so far out of control so fast they have no idea what to do now.""http://www.oacas.org/news/09/april/29tori.pdf


bbm, what does that mean? and iirc TM identified TLM as being the woman who took Tori.

There was another comment iirc, and I don't have link handy, that Tori would think it was an adventure or sleep over and would be home soon or something like that. Does anyone have link? Also in TM's testimony she was asked about her reluctance to call police and stated her Mom had in fact reported Tori missing.

There is a comment above with link about TM telling Tori's brother about what happened to Tori and some quote about like people will say things to make themselves feel better?? what does that mean? can someone link please? JMO the issues lie very deep, and there is a lot of anger and blame tossed about JMO ONLY

 

[crystalsleuth]

FYI, I found this article last night. It shed a bit of light on where the thoughts of MTR's family might have been in 2009:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/05/27/11936266-sun.html

About 2/3 of the way down it reads:

Another Rafferty lawyer, Brennan Smart, slammed the Oxford police chief for describing the case as "strong" in a Sun Media interview. "I think it's not for a police chief to decide," he said. "It for a trier of fact at a later date to determine the strength of this case."

Smart said he has "resolved to say very little until we get some disclosure of fact," and the Rafferty family is similarly reluctant to speak out.

One relative suggested to The Free Press the family has serious reservations about Rafferty's charges.

"We just want the truth to come out," Jon Cundy said. "If anyone has any sort of (strange) feeling (about the case), there's a lot of people having that feeling."

 

[Flossie JMO]

RE: drug debt theory ... I don't really think that TLM was on anyone's mission other than her own. I can't imagine even the most stoned-out drug dealer getting her to do any "dirty work" for them ... let's face it, she gets caught A LOT!

JMO I can see that, and JMO could have been owed to her, or her Mom, in spite of the violence towards her Mom, TLM has stated, link not handy, she loves her Mom, JMO I wondered at the time if that had deeper meaning JMO ONLY

 

[Macright]

A few questions I have, that I think will be answered one day:

"Ms. McDonald told Ms. Mulligan in an interview aired last evening that she has revised her belief that a stranger took her daughter, and now
agrees with friends who "feel somebody who we know has taken Tori and they have no idea, they were just being mildly vindictive, and it
went so far out of control so fast they have no idea what to do now.""http://www.oacas.org/news/09/april/29tori.pdf


bbm, what does that mean? and iirc TM identified TLM as being the woman who took Tori.

There was another comment iirc, and I don't have link handy, that Tori would think it was an adventure or sleep over and would be home soon or something like that. Does anyone have link? Also in TM's testimony she was asked about her reluctance to call police and stated her Mom had in fact reported Tori missing.

There is a comment above with link about TM telling Tori's brother about what happened to Tori and some quote about like people will say things to make themselves feel better?? what does that mean? can someone link please? JMO the issues lie very deep, and there is a lot of anger and blame tossed about JMO ONLY

you are good in finding all these old articles...I remember a lot of these but didn't really know how to search them out... but I remember...thanks...

 

[snoofer]

FYI, I found this article last night. It shed a bit of light on where the thoughts of MTR's family might have been in 2009:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/05/27/11936266-sun.html

About 2/3 of the way down it reads:

Another Rafferty lawyer, Brennan Smart, slammed the Oxford police chief for describing the case as "strong" in a Sun Media interview. "I think it's not for a police chief to decide," he said. "It for a trier of fact at a later date to determine the strength of this case."

Smart said he has "resolved to say very little until we get some disclosure of fact," and the Rafferty family is similarly reluctant to speak out.

One relative suggested to The Free Press the family has serious reservations about Rafferty's charges.

"We just want the truth to come out," Jon Cundy said. "If anyone has any sort of (strange) feeling (about the case), there's a lot of people having that feeling."

would they have gotten the same disclosure of fact that the other family got? Wonder if that changed their minds. Yes the family has been very tight lipped. MOO

 

[Heliotrope]

I simply cannot believe how many posters question the defence's witness' testimony! She has no bias ... she is just a lady who saw something a bit unusual & made a mental note of it. To question her because in one interview she said the pants were dark, and in another said they were black (?) or blue (?). Or to question her credibility because of some minute details from the interviews ... wow!

Yet some posters quote TLM's testimony like it is the gospel ... I don't get it!

I didn't question her statement too much at first - didn't see much significance, but didn't question it - it just seemed strange.

It was when I read the article about how she didn't actually make a statement about her going into the school until the 26th of May, 48 days later, that my jaw hit the floor.

TLM's statement has been supported by video, DNA and cell phone evidence. And of course there's the small matter that LE might still be searching for a body if it weren't for her statement. I find her statement, for the most part and in the areas that count, is backed by a lot of physical evidence.