Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh? #3

[curvecuti]

I completely understand your issues with that but the statement that I linked was from the PCSO website. Since they themselves state that they do not consider the parents suspects and have not given a statement since August to contradict that I choose to believe they are still not considered suspects at this time. If Law Enforcement does issue a statement that Haleigh's parents are under scrutiny then I would of course re-evaluate my personal theories.

ITA! It's funny to me how other things Mr. Shoemaker says are totally dismissed or even made fun of, but that one statement, that's held as gospel that RC is a suspect.

 

[Donjeta]

ITA! It's funny to me how other things Mr. Shoemaker says are totally dismissed or even made fun of, but that one statement, that's held as gospel that RC is a suspect.

Well, the thing is, he's RC's lawyer. Thus he is expected to spin things in his client's favor, which is why spin in his client's favor is taken with a grain of salt. When he accidentally lets slip things that don't look so well for his client they're noted because there's a good chance they might actually be true.

 

[elle1919]

Well, the thing is, he's RC's lawyer. Thus he is expected to spin things in his client's favor, which is why spin in his client's favor is taken with a grain of salt. When he accidentally lets slip things that don't look so well for his client they're noted because there's a good chance they might actually be true.

I never wavered in my support for Crystal while her former lawyer Kim Picazio contradicted law enforcement and her client. In my opinion that is exactly what she did. I personally do not feel that just because someone is an attorney means that everything they speak should be considered reliable facts. On the other hand Law Enforcement are supposed to be the persons that are investigating this case and if we can't trust in them who can we?

I don't expect anyone to understand how I arrive at my personal opinions nor do I expect anyone to agree with me. I continue to post in this forum because my heart is in this until the end.

 

[cyberborg]

I completely understand your issues with that but the statement that I linked was from the PCSO website. Since they themselves state that they do not consider the parents suspects and have not given a statement since August to contradict that I choose to believe they are still not considered suspects at this time. If Law Enforcement does issue a statement that Haleigh's parents are under scrutiny then I would of course re-evaluate my personal theories.

We can agree to disagree. I was just trying to be fair and balanced to those who don't know about this more current statement so they can use all statements to support or preclude theories.

Shoemaker is quoting a recent meeting with LE, where LE had stated this to him and it does not favor his client -- so naturally carries more weight. However things change all of the time and this might be dated as well given recent developments.

I guess anyone can selectively use quotes and links that support their belief and position. I don't think it is a big deal at all. I am on-the-fence and have an open mind. I am open to information that may point to Ron, Misty or, Crystal but will not use any dated statements, including Shoemakers to rule anything in or out --- it is irrelevant IMHO.

IMO it does not matter if the President states that Ron is cleared or not a suspect -- the crime is not solved yet, no-one is arrested and, HaLeigh is not found yet. We shall see.

We basically don't know what LE knows. We don't know if LE is telling the public the truth in these statements since they have clearly demonstrated a tendency to selectively leak limited info and -- Ron is never 100% cleared until they arrest the perp(s), charge them and, recover HaLeigh.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Well, the thing is, he's RC's lawyer. Thus he is expected to spin things in his client's favor, which is why spin in his client's favor is taken with a grain of salt. When he accidentally lets slip things that don't look so well for his client they're noted because there's a good chance they might actually be true.

Exactly donjeta :thumb: If any defense attorney could ever possibly say something more favorable or exclusionary of a client we both know they would have jumped at the chance.


arrot:

 

[Donjeta]

I never wavered in my support for Crystal while her former lawyer Kim Picazio contradicted law enforcement and her client. In my opinion that is exactly what she did. I personally do not feel that just because someone is an attorney means that everything they speak should be considered reliable facts. On the other hand Law Enforcement are supposed to be the persons that are investigating this case and if we can't trust in them who can we?

I don't expect anyone to understand how I arrive at my personal opinions nor do I expect anyone to agree with me. I continue to post in this forum because my heart is in this until the end.

Not sure why you're quoting my post. It appears you disagree with me, but I certainly never said that you should not continue posting and I also didn't say that just because someone is an attorney means that everything they speak should be considered reliable facts. I thought I was saying the opposite: the attorney-client relationship makes the attorney an interested party and they have a motive to slant things in favor of their client. Of course they are just human like we all are and as such they might occasionally have other motivations to lie outright, or use misleading semantics, or be just honestly misinformed or ignorant. Which is why people don't trust everything that Terry Shoemaker says.

As for LE, I do hope that we can trust them to investigate the case professionally and devotedly but there have been cases in which LE have made misleading statements and danced around the real issues telling half-truths on purpose to keep people unaware where they're going with the investigation.

 

[cyberborg]

I completely understand your issues with that but the statement that I linked was from the PCSO website. Since they themselves state that they do not consider the parents suspects and have not given a statement since August to contradict that I choose to believe they are still not considered suspects at this time. If Law Enforcement does issue a statement that Haleigh's parents are under scrutiny then I would of course re-evaluate my personal theories.

BTW. I don't think LE would ever issue a statement that a perp is newly under scrutiny both because of law suits but also not to tip their hand -- why do that unless they want to spook the perp to see what they do?

I would expect the first we hear of someone 'under scrutiny' is when all i's are dotted, t's crossed and, an arrest is the first we know and hear.

I don't really think anything will break until HaLeigh remains are found and the house of cards will come crashing down. IMO there will be some involved in a cover-up. Mark my words.

 

[elle1919]

Not sure why you're quoting my post. It appears you disagree with me, but I certainly never said that you should not continue posting and I also didn't say that just because someone is an attorney means that everything they speak should be considered reliable facts. I thought I was saying the opposite: the attorney-client relationship makes the attorney an interested party and they have a motive to slant things in favor of their client. Of course they are just human like we all are and as such they might occasionally have other motivations to lie outright, or use misleading semantics, or be just honestly misinformed or ignorant. Which is why people don't trust everything that Terry Shoemaker says.

As for LE, I do hope that we can trust them to investigate the case professionally and devotedly but there have been cases in which LE have made misleading statements and danced around the real issues telling half-truths on purpose to keep people unaware where they're going with the investigation.

I quoted your post because you posted that we should believe an attorney's statement over a statement that Law Enforcement gave on their own website in August. Sorry for the confusion.

As far as your statements regarding law enforcement giving us misleading statements, and as you put it, dancing around the real issues, I agree but would still prefer information from them over anyone else in this case.

 

[elle1919]

BTW. I don't think LE would ever issue a statement that a perp is newly under scrutiny both because of law suits but also not to tip their hand -- why do that unless they want to spook the perp to see what they do?

I would expect the first we hear of someone 'under scrutiny' is when all i's are dotted, t's crossed and, an arrest is the first we know and hear.

I don't really think anything will break until HaLeigh remains are found and the house of cards will come crashing down. IMO there will be some involved in a cover-up. Mark my words.

I will just respectfully disagree and exit from further discussion about a cover up. I am still praying that Haleigh is alive and while I might believe in my heart that the odds are against her at this point, I find it disheartening that you have already made conclusions that a cover-up would be necessary.

 

[cyberborg]

[snip]

Haleigh's disappearance is most certainly considered an abduction, when have investigators EVER given us any other explanation?

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/cummings_case/071609no_sign_of_haleigh

From Link: Since Day One, the Putnam County Sheriff's Office said it believes the girl was abducted from the home hidden beneath towering trees near the end of a sparsely populated rural dirt
street.

I just wanted to add, sorry ... that while the last we heard from LE was that HaLeigh was abducted, it has been later qualified as likely NOT a stranger abduction. Picky but very important clarification since the focus is on the family.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/18/ng.01.html

"Authorities investigating the disappearance of 6- year-old Haleigh Cummings say it`s likely the toddler was not abducted by a stranger."

 

[KOOL LOOK]

elle, you are correct in your posts as LE has been treating this as an abduction. The draining of the pond by those questioning the reasons is a good point. And can throw most outsiders off. But, there are two reasons to have searched that pond even though they have another theory as to what happened to Haleigh, and her being abducted, alive or dead, doesn't matter in their abduction reasoning theory. Abduction stands as the theory.

I believe LE drained the pond for exactly as elle stated, they received a tip, they had no choice but to search it. Wouldn't it look very bad on LE if they didn't? Wouldn't it continue to look bad, if they weren't doing anything in the search for Haleigh? The answer to both questions would be "yes". In other words, even though LE does believe Haleigh has been abducted, they have said this already several times, they still must follow procedure, tips, clues even though they don't go along with their theories.

The result of the mondex pond search continues to point to an abduction more so as she wasn't found there. Tip was bad bad bad. Just like the st. augustine newspaper letter tip. LE early on questioned the letter, but still did another search around the mh. Same scenerio.

 

[cyberborg]

I will just respectfully disagree and exit from further discussion about a cover up. I am still praying that Haleigh is alive and while I might believe in my heart that the odds are against her at this point, I find it disheartening that you have already made conclusions that a cover-up would be necessary.

I totally respect your opinion and hope that it is true. Nothing would please me more. I'd be absolutely thrilled after recent news on Somer but I am not hopeful based on what little we do know about HaLeigh's disappearance and the inconsistent stories. Like KC, Misty needs to tell the truth and layout a verifiable story else -- you have to wonder why lie?

 

[kiki the parrot]

BTW. I don't think LE would ever issue a statement that a perp is newly under scrutiny both because of law suits but also not to tip their hand -- why do that unless they want to spook the perp to see what they do?

I would expect the first we hear of someone 'under scrutiny' is when all i's are dotted, t's crossed and, an arrest is the first we know and hear.

I don't really think anything will break until HaLeigh remains are found and the house of cards will come crashing down. IMO there will be some involved in a cover-up. Mark my words.

(bbm) Well put. LE doesn't owe it to the media, public at large or WS to keep us apprised of every development or announce their strategy or tactics.

arrot:

 

[Donjeta]

I quoted your post because you posted that we should believe an attorney's statement over a statement that Law Enforcement gave on their own website in August. Sorry for the confusion.

As far as your statements regarding law enforcement giving us misleading statements, and as you put it, dancing around the real issues, I agree but would still prefer information from them over anyone else in this case.

The thing is, I didn't say that an attorney's statement should be believed over LE. I think they're probably both true. IMO the attorney's statement and the LE press release do not contradict each other. LE said that Ron and Crystal aren't considered suspects. That is not the same as saying they're been 100 % cleared. LE have also said that nobody is considered a suspect or a person of interest, and it certainly doesn't mean that everybody has been 100% cleared.

It is semantics and feels like nitpicking but IMO there is a big difference between "cleared" and "not considered a suspect". If I was cleared I would feel relieved but if I was not considered a suspect I wouldn't throw a party just yet. The former means that there is evidence that I can't have done it and the latter basically just means that they do not have the evidence to call me a suspect and are not ready to arrest me right now but it doesn't mean they might not do it later. In a recent case the perp was not considered a suspect the day before his arrest.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

(bbm) Well put. LE doesn't owe it to the media, public at large or WS to keep us apprised of every development or announce their strategy or tactics.

arrot:

aaaaww :blushing: couldn't they just give us all the insider info, we wouldn't tell a soul? :innocent:

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I totally respect your opinion and hope that it is true. Nothing would please me more. I'd be absolutely thrilled after recent news on Somer but I am not hopeful based on what little we do know about HaLeigh's disappearance and the inconsistent stories. Like KC, Misty needs to tell the truth and layout a verifiable story else -- you have to wonder why lie?

agree, only part ways if it's a family abduction and Haleigh is healthy, safe and well fed. I'm sure you feel this way also if we have an alive Haleigh, I know that's your wishes too Darling. But the statistics and recent Somer case, sure is discouraging for us crime children sleuthers.

I wish they would have done the dumpster/landfill protocol as Sheriff of Somers case pointed out in his presser yesterday. This county is only over 50 mile from Satsuma, yet LE is not clear on standard procedures, or doesn't follow a protocol when it comes to missing children? What a shame, seems someone in charge wasn't the most knowledgable down in Satsuma. Does anyone one, there are 4 LE agencies working the case, which agency was the lead? The boss so to speak over all other authority?

 

[elle1919]

I just wanted to add, sorry ... that while the last we heard from LE was that HaLeigh was abducted, it has been later qualified as likely NOT a stranger abduction. Picky but very important clarification since the focus is on the family.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/18/ng.01.html

"Authorities investigating the disappearance of 6- year-old Haleigh Cummings say it`s likely the toddler was not abducted by a stranger."

Never be sorry for adding to a discussion! I think we agree, I was not trying to negate the "stranger abduction" theory. What I did have an opinion on was a few posts in this thread stating LE did not appear to be working on the theory of an abduction. There is still an active amber alert for Haleigh Cummings and here is the information from her page:

snip~CANS Alert Issued for 5 Year Old Florida Girl
Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:22 PM CT
Updated: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 2:08 PM CT

Code Amber News Service (CANS) issued this Missing Endangered person Alert after the girl disappeared from her bedroom some time after 3 AM Tuesday morning (2-10) in Satsuma. Satsuma is approximately 75 miles east of Gainsville. After two weeks of searching, and going through over 1,600 leads and tips, there is still no sign of Haleigh. The reward for information leading to her recovery has been increased to over $25,000 according to Putnam County Sheriff's officials.

Haleigh Cummings a white female, 3 feet tall, weighs 39 pounds and has blond hair and brown eyes.

There are no suspects in this case at this time. However, due to the circumstances of the child's disappearance an abduction is strongly suspected.

There is no suspect vehicle at this time.

Anyone with information is asked to call the Putnam County Sheriff's office at (386) 329-0808 or dial 911. ~ end snip
http://www.codeamber.com/cummingsfl/

If it turns out to be a family member was involved in Haleigh's disappearance I will have gained nothing and lost nothing. I am a amateur sleuth and all I wish is for the truth to be known so that Haleigh can be brought home to her family that loves her.

 

[TxLady2]

Good question. Possibly each agency has its own superior, but they work together. In some child abduction cases, the FBI takes over the case and directs all movements, but not sure how they are dealing with this, since it has gone on so long.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Very good points. It is obvious LE hasn't been treating this as an abduction.

arrot:

Very true kiki! While I am posting before reading, I have no doubt that the fact that LE says Ron and Crystal are not suspects has been brought up. (maybe I have ESP, lol!) With that said, in many cases LE has said that someone was not a suspect only to have them arrested the next day. They do it all the time and with good reason I might add. Sooo.. that pretty much sums up MO on that subject, as I DO believe that they are looking at Ron. That's JMHO and I don't care how many statements, links, etc. anyone throws out there. Neither do I care who disagrees me, as that is MO mine, mine, mine.. and I will continue to believe that until someone besides Ron and Misty are arrested OR something NEW comes to light to make me believe otherwise. (not directed towards you in any way of course, but you know that ) It would be very nice if 'we' knew what LE knows, but it just doesn't work that way, nor should it imo. Doesn't stop me from wanting to know tho!

 

[Pondering Mind]

You don't think that we would have seen an arrest already if this was actually what happened? Law Enforcement took each piece of clothing that Ronald and Misty were clothed in including their underwear. If either of them caused harm to Haleigh in the home don't you think Law Enforcement would have evidence to support that theory happening?

Why bother giving a press release stating Ronald and Crystal are not considered suspects if they suspected foul play in her disappearance?

Why would they say she was abducted, if they suspected someone killed Haleigh? TIA

LOL! I knew I wouldn't have to look far for someone to 'point out' that LE has stated that Ron and Crystal are not suspects. As someone else has already pointed out 'not suspects' and 'cleared' are not one in the same by any stretch of the imagination.

As far as any evidence found in the home (assuming that's where the crime occured) I have NO idea what evidence LE has or doesn't have, do you? I wish I did, perhaps then this case would not be so absolutly frustrating. You know, sometimes a perp can get very lucky, depending on exactly 'how the harm' that may have befallen HaLeigh happened (inside or outside her home) and leave very little evidence behind. I'm not asking you or anyone else to believe me or feel the same way, this is the theory thread...and theories, just like opinions are a dime a dozen. This just happens to be MINE. :yes: