Jonbenet blow to the head happened almost simultaneously with the strangulation according to Dr Myer. could this indicated pre-meditated murder?

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Whatever it is, it is not a ”normal” intruder looking for valuables, though. If it’s an intruder it’s one who knows the family and the house well.
BBM

This is exactly what I'm thinking. It's unlikely any of the Ramsey family members would wake JBR up after she'd gone to bed. All of them had to be tired after that very busy Christmas day.

The following is just my theory.

My theory--someone JonBenet knew well (and trusted), lifted her out of her bed, carried her to the kitchen, and got her a bowl of pineapple. Someone she trusted. It doesn't make any sense for a family member to do that after everyone went to bed.

It doesn't seem as though she ate much of the pineapple--she was probably still drowsy from being woken. It wouldn't take too much after that to lure her (probably carry her) downstairs. The familiar intruder might have deceived himself into thinking JBR secretly would welcome his SA, but of course, she didn't.

When she struggled, he first used a stun gun to shock her into silence, then he taped her mouth and bound her hands. But she was still making sounds and he realized he could never come back from this. He'd made a fatal error in judgment.

He wound the cord around her throat, garrote style, and then, because he didn't hate her--he smacked her head with the hammer to end her suffering more quickly.

Then, he went back up and took his time writing a rambling ransom note.

Again the above is All MOO

Here's a question I posted on a different thread -- why is Fleet White's name not included on the lineup of family, friends, and acquaintances who submitted for DNA testing?
 
BBM

This is exactly what I'm thinking. It's unlikely any of the Ramsey family members would wake JBR up after she'd gone to bed. All of them had to be tired after that very busy Christmas day.

The following is just my theory.

My theory--someone JonBenet knew well (and trusted), lifted her out of her bed, carried her to the kitchen, and got her a bowl of pineapple. Someone she trusted. It doesn't make any sense for a family member to do that after everyone went to bed.

It doesn't seem as though she ate much of the pineapple--she was probably still drowsy from being woken. It wouldn't take too much after that to lure her (probably carry her) downstairs. The familiar intruder might have deceived himself into thinking JBR secretly would welcome his SA, but of course, she didn't.

When she struggled, he first used a stun gun to shock her into silence, then he taped her mouth and bound her hands. But she was still making sounds and he realized he could never come back from this. He'd made a fatal error in judgment.

He wound the cord around her throat, garrote style, and then, because he didn't hate her--he smacked her head with the hammer to end her suffering more quickly.

Then, he went back up and took his time writing a rambling ransom note.

Again the above is All MOO

Here's a question I posted on a different thread -- why is Fleet White's name not included on the lineup of family, friends, and acquaintances who submitted for DNA testing?
Thanks for sharing your theory! I respect it and do not dispute it, but as I read and thought along with it, I got some questions, if you don't mind me asking.

Why did the intruder need to feed her pineapple? Was he/she worried that JB was hungry? I ask because if it is a familiar intruder then he/she does not need to "connect" or bond with JB to gain trust - she already knows and trusts him/her, right?
To my understanding it has been proven that a stun gun does not actually silence or render unconscious, but rather makes a person scream and jump. But there is a possibility that the intruder did not know that...
If the intruder wound the cord around her throat while she was awake - why did she let him do so and not struggle? If she fought her attacker wouldn't there be evidence of DNA and fibers/hairs from that intruder found on her and on the location of the struggle?
Why do you think he went back and wrote the ransom note instead just leaving? It's a risk and it took some time to write it all down. The RN did not serve a any purpose, did it?


Fleet White, to my understanding, was tested.

15-Jan-1997Fleet White113DQA1/PM, D1S80CBI
 
BBM

This is exactly what I'm thinking. It's unlikely any of the Ramsey family members would wake JBR up after she'd gone to bed. All of them had to be tired after that very busy Christmas day.

The following is just my theory.

My theory--someone JonBenet knew well (and trusted), lifted her out of her bed, carried her to the kitchen, and got her a bowl of pineapple. Someone she trusted. It doesn't make any sense for a family member to do that after everyone went to bed.

It doesn't seem as though she ate much of the pineapple--she was probably still drowsy from being woken. It wouldn't take too much after that to lure her (probably carry her) downstairs. The familiar intruder might have deceived himself into thinking JBR secretly would welcome his SA, but of course, she didn't.

When she struggled, he first used a stun gun to shock her into silence, then he taped her mouth and bound her hands. But she was still making sounds and he realized he could never come back from this. He'd made a fatal error in judgment.

He wound the cord around her throat, garrote style, and then, because he didn't hate her--he smacked her head with the hammer to end her suffering more quickly.

Then, he went back up and took his time writing a rambling ransom note.

Again the above is All MOO

Here's a question I posted on a different thread -- why is Fleet White's name not included on the lineup of family, friends, and acquaintances who submitted for DNA testing?
Easy answer. There were many rounds of DNA testing done, the link is for only one testing, the first one. Fleet was tested on 1/15/97 and his name appears on that list along with others that were tested at the same time.

JR and PR are the only ones who said JB was asleep when they got home and never woke up, but that was not the first story told by JR to police on the morning of the 26th. BR has since said more than once that she was awake.

There is evidence that strongly suggests the attack on JB started in her bedroom. They found some of the green garland in her hair from the spiral staircase, which suggests the was already unconscious when carried down from her bedroom. the blow to the head likely happened in her bedroom. There were droplets of blood on her pink Barbie nightgown which suggests that's what she was wearing. The blood is likely from her nose after being hit. Also blood was on her white blanket and her pillow. The blanket and her nightgown were placed with her in the wine cellar room to suggest that everything happened there.

My opinion, of course, but seems to be where the evidence points.
 
Thanks for sharing your theory! I respect it and do not dispute it, but as I read and thought along with it, I got some questions, if you don't mind me asking.

Why did the intruder need to feed her pineapple? Was he/she worried that JB was hungry? I ask because if it is a familiar intruder then he/she does not need to "connect" or bond with JB to gain trust - she already knows and trusts him/her, right?
To my understanding it has been proven that a stun gun does not actually silence or render unconscious, but rather makes a person scream and jump. But there is a possibility that the intruder did not know that...
If the intruder wound the cord around her throat while she was awake - why did she let him do so and not struggle? If she fought her attacker wouldn't there be evidence of DNA and fibers/hairs from that intruder found on her and on the location of the struggle?
Why do you think he went back and wrote the ransom note instead just leaving? It's a risk and it took some time to write it all down. The RN did not serve a any purpose, did it?


Fleet White, to my understanding, was tested.


15-Jan-1997Fleet White113DQA1/PM, D1S80CBI
Thank you for that information! I missed that initially.

As to my theory -- I feel as though JBR might have begin waking up when being carried downstairs, and the intruder needed to do something to distract her -- maybe promise her a special treat if she was quiet? All just conjucture and MOO on my part.

I've thought about why he would hang around and write the RN. I don't think the evening went the way he'd planned it -- JBR didn't welcome his advances and he'd had to kill her -- and I think he was emotional torn up about that.

I think he may have regretted what he did to the extent that he thought he could make it look like a kidnapping.

A close friend may well have known about JR's bonus amount, which from what I understand, was for the previous year, not 1996. I think the RN was an afterthought.

All MOO

If FDI, as I think he did, he sure has a history of writing long and rambling letters. So long in fact, that the Denver Post had to pass on publishing them because he would not agree to have them edited for length.
 
Easy answer. There were many rounds of DNA testing done, the link is for only one testing, the first one. Fleet was tested on 1/15/97 and his name appears on that list along with others that were tested at the same time.

JR and PR are the only ones who said JB was asleep when they got home and never woke up, but that was not the first story told by JR to police on the morning of the 26th. BR has since said more than once that she was awake.

There is evidence that strongly suggests the attack on JB started in her bedroom. They found some of the green garland in her hair from the spiral staircase, which suggests the was already unconscious when carried down from her bedroom. the blow to the head likely happened in her bedroom. There were droplets of blood on her pink Barbie nightgown which suggests that's what she was wearing. The blood is likely from her nose after being hit. Also blood was on her white blanket and her pillow. The blanket and her nightgown were placed with her in the wine cellar room to suggest that everything happened there.

My opinion, of course, but seems to be where the evidence points.
This makes sense…but so frickin gruesome. Didn’t Patsy say initially that she dressed JB in the red turtleneck and longjohns as her PJ’s that night? Christmas night and PR uses clothes as PJ’s…deception bell ringing IMO.
She probably was wearing that favorite nightgown on Christmas..
And find it real difficult to believe that the “intelligence” it took to clear their forensic tracks and completely disorganize whatever the real crime scene was, in the midst of the death of JB, was from just the two of them. It’s all just too “sophisticated” MOO

I was browsing around a domestic abuse web site - specifically about the effects of strangulation…
Would be interested to know what McCann says about the autopsy results - other then the SA part he is so respected for.
 
This makes sense…but so frickin gruesome. Didn’t Patsy say initially that she dressed JB in the red turtleneck and longjohns as her PJ’s that night? Christmas night and PR uses clothes as PJ’s…deception bell ringing IMO.
She probably was wearing that favorite nightgown on Christmas..
And find it real difficult to believe that the “intelligence” it took to clear their forensic tracks and completely disorganize whatever the real crime scene was, in the midst of the death of JB, was from just the two of them. It’s all just too “sophisticated” MOO

I was browsing around a domestic abuse web site - specifically about the effects of strangulation…
Would be interested to know what McCann says about the autopsy results - other then the SA part he is so respected for.
Yes, PR's first story was that she dressed JB in the red turtleneck. She later changed her story.

JR said that unless PR got her ready for bed because she was asleep, that she always put her pink Barbie nightgown on herself. That was her absolute favorite. PR in typical PR fashion tried to distance her from that nightgown, naming another article of clothing as JB's favorite. But Aunt Pam and Nedra didn't get the memo and said the pink nightgown was her favorite. Oops!

I would bet money that JR called Mike Bynum that night and got advice on how to stage things. Which is probably why phone records mysteriously disappeared.

I think Dr. McCann only weighed in on the SA aspect. He gave no opinion on the head wound / strangulation.
 
I can't get beyond FW's sketchy actions that day.

He says (after the fact) that he'd gone down to the basement earlier that morning and looked in the wine cellar but saw nothing. Later light-meter readings by a local photographer determined that it would be difficult to see a white blanket unless he'd stepped into the room--like JR did--and from there, the blanket could be seen before turning on the light.

Why would FW be in the basement earlier, anyway? Just the fact that he was previously in the wine cellar proves he knew where it was and how to open it.

But this is the part that I find the oddest. This is from Thomas' book:

"Arndt ordered Ramsey to put the body down on the floor near the front door and told Fleet White to guard the basement door. Instead, White ran back down to the little cellar room, picked up the black tape, and stared at it. By doing so, White unknowingly mishandled a critical piece of evidence."

The "stared at it" part had to have come from FW, so we don't know that he told the truth. FW had already blatantly disobeyed the Detective.

Did he know that there was a good chance his fingerprints were on the tape so he needed an alibi for that? And, what else did he do down there that we don't
know about?

This guy is way too sketchy for my likes.
 
I can't get beyond FW's sketchy actions that day.

He says (after the fact) that he'd gone down to the basement earlier that morning and looked in the wine cellar but saw nothing. Later light-meter readings by a local photographer determined that it would be difficult to see a white blanket unless he'd stepped into the room--like JR did--and from there, the blanket could be seen before turning on the light.

Why would FW be in the basement earlier, anyway? Just the fact that he was previously in the wine cellar proves he knew where it was and how to open it.

But this is the part that I find the oddest. This is from Thomas' book:

"Arndt ordered Ramsey to put the body down on the floor near the front door and told Fleet White to guard the basement door. Instead, White ran back down to the little cellar room, picked up the black tape, and stared at it. By doing so, White unknowingly mishandled a critical piece of evidence."

The "stared at it" part had to have come from FW, so we don't know that he told the truth. FW had already blatantly disobeyed the Detective.

Did he know that there was a good chance his fingerprints were on the tape so he needed an alibi for that? And, what else did he do down there that we don't
know about?

This guy is way too sketchy for my likes.
Why even invite Fleet over to your house? What was FW doing there? Why invite anyone over when you might be involving them in something dangerous and potentially risking your own daughter's life! This makes no sense to me at all.

Whats sketchy to me is a father who wakes up and his daughter is gone and he doesn't search the whole house.
His dead daughter later is found in the basement of HIS house.

Whats sketchy to me is paying more attention to reading your mail than reading the ransom note where there might be some clue as to her disappearance and her life possibly depends on it....
 
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Why even invite Fleet over to your house? What was FW doing there? Why invite anyone over when you might be involving them in something dangerous and potentially risking your own daughter's life! This makes no sense to me at all.

Whats sketchy to me is a father who wakes up and his daughter is gone and he doesn't search the whole house.
His dead daughter later is found in the basement of HIS house.

Whats sketchy to me is paying more attention to reading your mail than reading the ransom note where there might be some clue as to her disappearance and her life possibly depends on it....
All good points, but it sounds as if PR and JR took the correct--and most important steps--just as soon as PR found the note. She screamed and alerted JR. She immediately checked JBR's bedroom. JR told her to call 911--she did, and JR checked Burke's room to see if he was still safe.

Those are all by-the-book immediate responses, and they're exactly what LE suggest doing.

It doesn't make sense for JR to check the entire house before calling 911 because he's trying to get LE engaged asap. Right after LE arrives, Officer Reichenbach checks the basement--but doesn't open the wine cellar door because he "felt resistance."

Why did he feel resistance? When Arndt sent JR and FW to do another check of the house -- JR walked right into the wine cellar door.

Only one person, as far as we know, was in that wine cellar between the time Reichenbach pushed on it and JR opened it. That one person--was FW. Did FW also feel resistance when he pushed on the door? Or was he the one who created the resistance to begin with and then changed that when he was down earlier staging the scene?
 
All good points, but it sounds as if PR and JR took the correct--and most important steps--just as soon as PR found the note. She screamed and alerted JR. She immediately checked JBR's bedroom. JR told her to call 911--she did, and JR checked Burke's room to see if he was still safe.

Those are all by-the-book immediate responses, and they're exactly what LE suggest doing.

It doesn't make sense for JR to check the entire house before calling 911 because he's trying to get LE engaged asap. Right after LE arrives, Officer Reichenbach checks the basement--but doesn't open the wine cellar door because he "felt resistance."
Here we will have to agree to disagree.....I think most fathers and mothers would be frantically searching the entire house......Its not like John couldn't be searching every inch of the house while Patsy was dialing 911. .
I cant imagine searching only a few bedrooms then calling it a day LOL . The 9/11 call was 50 seconds long.....you cant go back to searching after making the call ??? LOL


On a personal note....as a father not having searched the entire house and later finding my daughter dead in the basement, I think i would have been consumed by guilt.
Why did he feel resistance? When Arndt sent JR and FW to do another check of the house -- JR walked right into the wine cellar door.

Only one person, as far as we know, was in that wine cellar between the time Reichenbach pushed on it and JR opened it. That one person--was FW. Did FW also feel resistance when he pushed on the door? Or was he the one who created the resistance to begin with and then changed that when he was down earlier staging the scene?
Remember, Fleet White did not inject himself into this situation....He was invited over to the Ramsey house. at 5;52 am that morning I think Fleet would have been otherwise been fast asleep....... I think current day Fleet regrets ever having known the Ramseys.
 
All good points, but it sounds as if PR and JR took the correct--and most important steps--just as soon as PR found the note. She screamed and alerted JR. She immediately checked JBR's bedroom. JR told her to call 911--she did, and JR checked Burke's room to see if he was still safe.

Those are all by-the-book immediate responses, and they're exactly what LE suggest doing.

It doesn't make sense for JR to check the entire house before calling 911 because he's trying to get LE engaged asap. Right after LE arrives, Officer Reichenbach checks the basement--but doesn't open the wine cellar door because he "felt resistance."

Why did he feel resistance? When Arndt sent JR and FW to do another check of the house -- JR walked right into the wine cellar door.

Only one person, as far as we know, was in that wine cellar between the time Reichenbach pushed on it and JR opened it. That one person--was FW. Did FW also feel resistance when he pushed on the door? Or was he the one who created the resistance to begin with and then changed that when he was down earlier staging the scene?
PR explained that the wine cellar door would stick. Apparently when carpet was laid the bottom of the door would drag on the carpet, so you had to pull harder than usual to get it open. JR also said the door would stick.

At the time LE was looking in the basement, it was a kidnapping case. They were looking for exits and entrances that a kidnapper might have used. The wine cellar had only the one door which was locked from the outside, and no windows. They should have checked it regardless, but they didn't think it could've been used to get in or out of the house.

As you can see from pictures, there is a latch at the top of the door to lock it and keep it closed. That's from the outside. You had to pull the door open, not push.
 
Yes, it's one of the more realistic theories, in my opinion. The autopsy supports it and Dr. Doberson's report further clarifies it.


The paintbrush thing seems odd to me, too--like maybe an afterthought. But I'm glad there was no evidence of prior/ongoing SA.
There was prior sa
 
Thanks for posting this. It’s the first official report I’ve seen apart from Dr Meyer’s autopsy report. The strangulation first theory explains why there was no visible trauma on the outside of her scalp. Makes sense. So theoretically, she was stun gunned, sexually assaulted, strangled, bludgeoned. Are sexual assaults with objects like paint brushes sexually motivated do you know? It’s such a horrible thing to ask because she was a child and it’s so gruesome what happened to her. But how would a person get gratification from abusing someone with a broken paintbrush?
Maybe there was no sexual gratification but curiosity as to how the parts work.
 
Maybe there was no sexual gratification but curiosity as to how the parts work.
Is the broken paintbrush absolutely confirmed? IIRC the autopsy described microscopic Bifringent material. There were wood shavings in the wine cellar..that could mean contamination of anything with that type of material. The assailant’s possible use of gloves…Talc used on gloves is Bifringent material…
Does the autopsy support a a SA with a paintbrush handle? Because of those wood shavings, glove possibly and that the material found was microscopic it just doesn’t seem to make sense.
 
Is the broken paintbrush absolutely confirmed? IIRC the autopsy described microscopic Bifringent material. There were wood shavings in the wine cellar..that could mean contamination of anything with that type of material. The assailant’s possible use of gloves…Talc used on gloves is Bifringent material…
Does the autopsy support a a SA with a paintbrush handle? Because of those wood shavings, glove possibly and that the material found was microscopic it just doesn’t seem to make sense.
Exactly! It has not been proven or confirmed. There are many possibilities how that small, microscopic, bifringent matererial could have gotten there. Contamination, gloves... She was undressed and wiped...
I personally do not think that she was sexually abused with the paint brush. IMO. I'd think that there would be more evidence of it happening found on the scene if that had happened. But I respect that many believe that it happened and I do see it as one possibility.
 
Exactly! It has not been proven or confirmed. There are many possibilities how that small, microscopic, bifringent matererial could have gotten there. Contamination, gloves... She was undressed and wiped...
I personally do not think that she was sexually abused with the paint brush. IMO. I'd think that there would be more evidence of it happening found on the scene if that had happened. But I respect that many believe that it happened and I do see it as one possibility.
I’m right with you on this PonyTail.
There was one post, years ago, that attributed that paintbrush theory to Kolar. And someone posted that the material was confirmed as cellulose. But haven’t done a search on this yet.
Maybe whatever she was wiped down with was contaminated with that Bifringent material?
 
BPD believed that JB was penetrated with the paintbrush. One of the reasons for this conclusion was the result of the examination done by Dr. John McCann, in addition to the evidence found at the scene (broken paintbrush). HIs opinion is as follows:

"It was his opinion that the injury appeared to have been caused by a relatively small, very firm object which, due to the area of bruising, had made very forceful contact not only with the hymen, but also with the tissues surrounding the hymen. McCann believed that the object was forcefully jabbed in – not just shoved in. Although the bruised area would indicate something about the size of a finger nail, he did not believe it was a finger, because of the well demarcated edges of the bruise indicating an object much firmer than a finger".

There was wood in the tissue at the injury site that was consistent with the paintbrush handle, which had been broken very near to where she had been laying. The material that was identified in the vagina was described as "birefringent", which means "double refraction". Having to do with the optical property of materials that have a refractive index. So it has to do with how light bends or splits when traveling through an object or material. Given this explanation, it's possible that the material may have been from the lacquer finish used on the paint brush.
 
BPD believed that JB was penetrated with the paintbrush. One of the reasons for this conclusion was the result of the examination done by Dr. John McCann, in addition to the evidence found at the scene (broken paintbrush). HIs opinion is as follows:

"It was his opinion that the injury appeared to have been caused by a relatively small, very firm object which, due to the area of bruising, had made very forceful contact not only with the hymen, but also with the tissues surrounding the hymen. McCann believed that the object was forcefully jabbed in – not just shoved in. Although the bruised area would indicate something about the size of a finger nail, he did not believe it was a finger, because of the well demarcated edges of the bruise indicating an object much firmer than a finger".

There was wood in the tissue at the injury site that was consistent with the paintbrush handle, which had been broken very near to where she had been laying. The material that was identified in the vagina was described as "birefringent", which means "double refraction". Having to do with the optical property of materials that have a refractive index. So it has to do with how light bends or splits when traveling through an object or material. Given this explanation, it's possible that the material may have been from the lacquer finish used on the paint brush.
I think from now on I will skip McCann’s reports. Not out of disrespect but because of the details. And just concede, he knows.
Grateful for your dedication to this, CT.
 
BPD believed that JB was penetrated with the paintbrush. One of the reasons for this conclusion was the result of the examination done by Dr. John McCann, in addition to the evidence found at the scene (broken paintbrush). HIs opinion is as follows:

"It was his opinion that the injury appeared to have been caused by a relatively small, very firm object which, due to the area of bruising, had made very forceful contact not only with the hymen, but also with the tissues surrounding the hymen. McCann believed that the object was forcefully jabbed in – not just shoved in. Although the bruised area would indicate something about the size of a finger nail, he did not believe it was a finger, because of the well demarcated edges of the bruise indicating an object much firmer than a finger".

There was wood in the tissue at the injury site that was consistent with the paintbrush handle, which had been broken very near to where she had been laying. The material that was identified in the vagina was described as "birefringent", which means "double refraction". Having to do with the optical property of materials that have a refractive index. So it has to do with how light bends or splits when traveling through an object or material. Given this explanation, it's possible that the material may have been from the lacquer finish used on the

Exactly! It has not been proven or confirmed. There are many possibilities how that small, microscopic, bifringent matererial could have gotten there. Contamination, gloves... She was undressed and wiped...
I personally do not think that she was sexually abused with the paint brush. IMO. I'd think that there would be more evidence of it happening found on the scene if that had happened. But I respect that many believe that it happened and I do see it as one possibility.
Just read post from Clouded Truth/McCann report.
McCann is the leading acknowledged expert regarding Child SA. So, IMO what he thinks means a whole lot. However, 💯? Close…but still a wee bit of room for diversion/speculation??. I dunno how the perp could violate a child, knowing about DNA contamination of the site (cause the perp definitely knew about it) and not wear a glove, which could also contain birefringent material (talc). Perhaps a glove was also worn in the construction of the ligature on her. It’s clumsy. I don’t think Patsy would have been so clumsy ….
 
BPD believed that JB was penetrated with the paintbrush. One of the reasons for this conclusion was the result of the examination done by Dr. John McCann, in addition to the evidence found at the scene (broken paintbrush). HIs opinion is as follows:

"It was his opinion that the injury appeared to have been caused by a relatively small, very firm object which, due to the area of bruising, had made very forceful contact not only with the hymen, but also with the tissues surrounding the hymen. McCann believed that the object was forcefully jabbed in – not just shoved in. Although the bruised area would indicate something about the size of a finger nail, he did not believe it was a finger, because of the well demarcated edges of the bruise indicating an object much firmer than a finger".

There was wood in the tissue at the injury site that was consistent with the paintbrush handle, which had been broken very near to where she had been laying. The material that was identified in the vagina was described as "birefringent", which means "double refraction". Having to do with the optical property of materials that have a refractive index. So it has to do with how light bends or splits when traveling through an object or material. Given this explanation, it's possible that the material may have been from the lacquer finish used on the paint brush.
Thanks! I had not read this conclusion before.
 

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