Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh? #3

[Flossie JMO]

I know what you mean Ms. Kool, the money issue does tend to rile some folks. Thanks for the links curve, much appreciated.

 

[kiki the parrot]

The crane may be irrelevant, based on this.

Not sure that matters either donjeta, even if he was working a desk job 20+ phone calls in one shift is alot of calling IMO.

In the case of Somer, I think it was a stranger who took an un-planned opportunity and then just disposed of the body. A thrill and lack of any thought.

In the case of Elizabeth, I think it was someone who knew her and tried to molest her and either did not have the savvy to dispose of her or fessed and took LE to her (think latter).

To me, a stranger is more likely to dispose of the body quickly and haphazardly since they had their thrills and are harder to locate, it could be someone transitionary who has moved on to another State.

In the case of HaLeigh I think that some planning and thought went into her disposal and that makes it harder to find her, that or someone followed up and moved her even further away.

When the case is close to home and involves family I think it is harder on LE because the family are not cooperating, the crime scene is tampered with or cleaned (like the A's) and, you have family members who are trying to send LE in the wrong direction.

That's why I think Ron, Misty and TN are involved.

I think you raise a point that's worth highlighting, difficult as it may be. None of us wants to believe that Haleigh is gone. Yet case histories indicate more often than not bodies of crimes by strangers are disposed of carelessly, callously w little if any attempt to conceal. Yes there are exceptions (Caylee eg a crime staged to mimic a stranger perp IMO) yet when it's a stranger perp having no direct connection or relationship typically not a lot of forethought or effort goes into the planning of disposal. Often bodies are discarded haphazardly. Obviously if Haleigh actually is gone, somebody went to extreme lengths to ensure her body would never be found. JMHO

arrot:

 

[curvecuti]

Not sure that matters either donjeta, even if he was working a desk job 20+ phone calls in one shift is alot of calling IMO.



I think you raise a point that's worth highlighting, difficult as it may be. None of us wants to believe that Haleigh is gone. Yet case histories indicate more often than not bodies of crimes by strangers are disposed of carelessly, callously w little if any attempt to conceal. Yes there are exceptions (Caylee eg a crime staged to mimic a stranger perp) yet when it's a stranger perp having no direct connection or relationship typically not a lot of forethought or effort goes into the planning of disposal. Often bodies are discarded haphazardly. Obviously if Haleigh actually is gone, somebody went to extreme lengths to ensure her body would never be found. JMHO

arrot:

BBM. So what about little Somer? If LE hadn't followed a hunch, the Chief said her body would have never been found. I don't think it's necessarily true that strangers discard their victims haphazardly. Alot of killers go to great lengths not to be discovered.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I know what you mean Ms. Kool, the money issue does tend to rile some folks. Thanks for the links curve, much appreciated.

Hi Flossie! I did look at the links curvecuti provided, but I had already read those posts previously in my search for your theory. They still give no opinion or theory as to WHY you believe that someone in Crystals family abducted HaLeigh, only that you believe that they did and that HaLeigh is alive and being hidden. Of course I already knew that from posting with you. I respect your opinion even though you know I don't feel the same way. But what I am interested in is the 'WHY' and what has led you to that conclusion. If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand, please just tell me and I promise I won't ever bring it up again. I just genuinely would like to know and it's very hard to understand anothers point of view or even consider it yourself when you have no idea where they are coming from, kwim? The only thing that I could gather from those posts (and to be clear, not yours, just the ones that you were responding to) is that they did this as a money making venture, but I have no idea if that is what you are getting at and certainly don't/wouldn't assume that to be your belief unless and until you say that. TIA!

btw~ Please know that I'm not singling you out, I would like to hear the same from anyone who believes that the Sheffields abducted HaLeigh and have her in hiding. Lord knows, while I have seen nothing to lead me in that direction, that would be music to my ears if true. Best possible scenario that I could think of at this point.

eta~ the money issue riles me not in the least, but I guess that's because I don't believe that there is money pouring in or that it has anything to do with the disappearance of HaLeigh. That's jmho tho...

 

[curvecuti]

Hi Flossie! I did look at the links curvecuti provided, but I had already read those posts previously in my search for your theory. They still give no opinion or theory as to WHY you believe that someone in Crystals family abducted HaLeigh, only that you believe that they did and that HaLeigh is alive and being hidden. Of course I already knew that from posting with you. I respect your opinion even though you know I don't feel the same way. But what I am interested in is the 'WHY' and what has led you to that conclusion. If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand, please just tell me and I promise I won't ever bring it up again. I just genuinely would like to know and it's very hard to understand anothers point of view or even consider it yourself when you have no idea where they are coming from, kwim? The only thing that I could gather from those posts (and to be clear, not yours, just the ones that you were responding to) is that they did this as a money making venture, but I have no idea if that is what you are getting at and certainly don't/wouldn't assume that to be your belief unless and until you say that. TIA!

btw~ Please know that I'm not singling you out, I would like to hear the same from anyone who believes that the Sheffields abducted HaLeigh and have her in hiding. Lord knows, while I have seen nothing to lead me in that direction, that would be music to my ears if true. Best possible scenario that I could think of at this point.

eta~ the money issue riles me not in the least, but I guess that's because I don't believe that there is money pouring in or that it has anything to do with the disappearance of HaLeigh. That's jmho tho...

Why do you not believe money is "pouring" in? They just had a benefit concert this month in Texas. http://haleighbenefitconcert.eventbrite.com/ Proceeds go to the Haleigh bug foundation. So we know they are receiving monies, but we do NOT know what is being done w/ it.


ETA: There was another one of these in Sept.

 

[Skully]

I don't think either side had motive to kill this precious child. I think one side could have had an accident of sorts and had to cover up what happened. And there is the possibly that someone, not in the immediate circle, took Haleigh to protect her from real or imagined harm. My snag with an accident cover up is, I don't feel Ron, TN, or GGMS, could ever dispose of Haleigh and Misty isn't smart enough.

The kidnapping from the other side gets snagged because they had to know the precise moment to take her and know that Misty wasn't home or drugged. They turned on a light, brought there own brick, the door had to be unlocked and they knew they wouldn't get caught, shot or seen with that big full moon.

So I have to go with, Haleigh got into drugs, maybe they were at someone's home, Misty covered this up with help, but that person isn't talking. I don't know what to make of Ron's actions at this point.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I don't think either side had motive to kill this precious child. I think one side could have had an accident of sorts and had to cover up what happened. And there is the possibly that someone, not in the immediate circle, took Haleigh to protect her from real or imagined harm. My snag with an accident cover up is, I don't feel Ron, TN, or GGMS, could ever dispose of Haleigh and Misty isn't smart enough.

The kidnapping from the other side gets snagged because they had to know the precise moment to take her and know that Misty wasn't home or drugged. They turned on a light, brought there own brick, the door had to be unlocked and they knew they wouldn't get caught, shot or seen with that big full moon.

So I have to go with, Haleigh got into drugs, maybe they were at someone's home, Misty covered this up with help, but that person isn't talking. I don't know what to make of Ron's actions at this point.

Good thoughts. I dont' see ron or his family of disposing of Haleigh's body. And by now, if that was the case, I really believe they would be memorializing her in someway that would be evident by now. So, as time goes by, they continue to look more innocent. Human nature of emotions would flood out, had they done this. They would be over the initial shock, and would want to honor and remember her in some way. We don't see that. No flowers, rooms or corners in the home dedicated to Haleigh like some people do when a loved one has passed. They don't slip up using past tenses. Just alot of indicators point to their innocence.

 

[kamky]

I don't think either side had motive to kill this precious child. I think one side could have had an accident of sorts and had to cover up what happened. And there is the possibly that someone, not in the immediate circle, took Haleigh to protect her from real or imagined harm. My snag with an accident cover up is, I don't feel Ron, TN, or GGMS, could ever dispose of Haleigh and Misty isn't smart enough.

The kidnapping from the other side gets snagged because they had to know the precise moment to take her and know that Misty wasn't home or drugged. They turned on a light, brought there own brick, the door had to be unlocked and they knew they wouldn't get caught, shot or seen with that big full moon.

So I have to go with, Haleigh got into drugs, maybe they were at someone's home, Misty covered this up with help, but that person isn't talking. I don't know what to make of Ron's actions at this point.

I think your logic makes sense, Bern, and I've been leaning this way also. In the beginning I leaned towards a family member abduction, partly because LE was pushing this theory, partly because there could have been some motivations, and partly because this was the most comforting theory because it implied that someone was caring for Haleigh.

However, it meant that the family member had to know just when to take Haleigh, as you pointed out. Or, that there had to be some collusion between the family member and someone that could have been at the home. This is still a possibility, but it would require intense investigation on the part of LE to uncover. As more time passes, if they have not been able to find anything, it becomes less likely.

I've concluded, as you have, that drugs was probably at the root of this abduction. However, if I look at the actions of Ron and of Misty in these last few months, IMO, while Ron has done some dumb things, Misty has shown much more of a relationship with drugs and with friends who are involved with drugs.

 

[kiki the parrot]

In the case of Somer, I think it was a stranger who took an un-planned opportunity and then just disposed of the body. A thrill and lack of any thought.

In the case of Elizabeth, I think it was someone who knew her and tried to molest her and either did not have the savvy to dispose of her or fessed and took LE to her (think latter).

To me, a stranger is more likely to dispose of the body quickly and haphazardly since they had their thrills and are harder to locate, it could be someone transitionary who has moved on to another State.

In the case of HaLeigh I think that some planning and thought went into her disposal and that makes it harder to find her, that or someone followed up and moved her even further away.

When the case is close to home and involves family I think it is harder on LE because the family are not cooperating, the crime scene is tampered with or cleaned (like the A's) and, you have family members who are trying to send LE in the wrong direction.

That's why I think Ron, Misty and TN are involved.

Profilers have identified patterns of victims' body disposal based upon stranger, acquaintance and intrafamilial crimes. The victim's closer relationship with the offender is associated w longer homicide-scene-to-body-disposal-site distances and a strong motivation to ensure victims are not recovered so crimes can never be discovered and easily linked back to them. This is one theory I was interested in exploring.

As previously noted there are exceptions to every rule. Others who find nothing of value in my contributions please ignore. When we make it clear our thoughts and opinons run consistently counter to or regularly convey we are not interested in working w some on their theories, I think it's more productive to work together w posters whose thoughts run along similar veins--or at least aren't continually at odds. My post was in response to cyberborg whose comments intrigued me and I'm equally interested in hearing from anybody else who would like to consider this theory or possibility w us. I began the HC Theories thread to be able to bounce ideas w those who are not necessarily likeminded but capable of giving thoughtful consideration to one another's ideas w/out rejecting them out of hand or shooting them down in rapidfire succession. Thanks. JMO

arrot:

 

[Flossie JMO]

Hi Flossie! I did look at the links curvecuti provided, but I had already read those posts previously in my search for your theory. They still give no opinion or theory as to WHY you believe that someone in Crystals family abducted HaLeigh, only that you believe that they did and that HaLeigh is alive and being hidden. Of course I already knew that from posting with you. I respect your opinion even though you know I don't feel the same way. But what I am interested in is the 'WHY' and what has led you to that conclusion. If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand, please just tell me and I promise I won't ever bring it up again. I just genuinely would like to know and it's very hard to understand anothers point of view or even consider it yourself when you have no idea where they are coming from, kwim? The only thing that I could gather from those posts (and to be clear, not yours, just the ones that you were responding to) is that they did this as a money making venture, but I have no idea if that is what you are getting at and certainly don't/wouldn't assume that to be your belief unless and until you say that. TIA!

btw~ Please know that I'm not singling you out, I would like to hear the same from anyone who believes that the Sheffields abducted HaLeigh and have her in hiding. Lord knows, while I have seen nothing to lead me in that direction, that would be music to my ears if true. Best possible scenario that I could think of at this point.

eta~ the money issue riles me not in the least, but I guess that's because I don't believe that there is money pouring in or that it has anything to do with the disappearance of HaLeigh. That's jmho tho...

bbm, I had several other posts in that topic, did you read them as well? I thought I was pretty clear with my opinions. I don't know how to link to individual posts to make it easier for you and put them all in one place. Do you know how?

 

[Trident]

I know what you mean Ms. Kool, the money issue does tend to rile some folks. Thanks for the links curve, much appreciated.

Perhaps the money issue riles some folks because it seems perfectly ludicrous that anyone would kill their child and hide the body in hopes donations would come in?

Just a thought and only my opinion.

 

[curvecuti]

Perhaps the money issue riles some folks because it seems perfectly ludicrous that anyone would kill their child and hide the body in hopes donations would come in?

Just a thought and only my opinion.

Who thinks that happened? I haven't seen that theory.

 

[Pam12]

The first 911 call when Ronald Cummings said you stole my daughter ***** to Misty Croslin speaks volumes to me. That was a parents instinctual gut reaction. Without him realizing it of course poor guy was to distraught. I believe she manipulated him into marrying her in his distraught state of mind and she said it is what Haleigh wanted through an interview. My thought is she was taken and Misty Croslin knows that and she of course doesn't know where she is. Now that it is known she is a drug taker she more than likely received money for her. And can't understand why she isn't staying close to law enforcement I would be knocking on everydoor to find her.

 

[curvecuti]

In the beginning when I first came to WS, I was looking for answers, to see what others thought happened to Haleigh. The one thing that had not even crossed my mind at that point was that RC killed Haleigh. So, I did look at that possibility, since at that time (and surprisingly since) it was the prevailing theory here. There is nothing, no evidence, no motive, nothing for me to pursue in that theory. If Haleigh was killed in the home there would be some sort of physical evidence, the kind that can't be cleaned up. I don't see RC as the kind of man who would kill his daughter, accidentally or not, and then leave it to Misty to "dispose" of her body. And Misty, frankly, is not savvy enough to hide a body w/o help. And we all know when you start involving others, your "perfect" crime kinda falls apart. And there is nothing about TN or AS that would in any way cause me to believe they would "dispose" of Haleigh, even for Ron. That just boggles my mind. I can see me calling my Mother to get rid of the child I just killed, not gonna happen. So, yes, I ave heard all the arguments "FOR" this theory since March, they just don't hold water for me. If new evidence comes forth I would be willing to look at this theory again.

The family abduction theory was my first thought and I still think that is possible. This is a very small town, all these "players" know each otherand are in some way intertwined. I believe it is very possible that a family member could have known MC had been on a drug binge and decided to try the abduction that night knowing she would be exhausted from partying all weekend. And we don't know that they entered through the back door. They could have come through the front and left through the back. Maybe MC didn't lock the front door. And as far as bringing their own "brick", they would know carrying a sleeping child and getting her out the door is going to be no easy feat. Propping the door open would be a great help. And turning on the light is another big indicator to me, all Haleigh's family knew she was scared of the dark, if she roused a bit, with the light on she could see it was someone she knew carrying her. And no, I don't think they took her to get donations or as a copy cat to Caylee. I think they took her because she had been "stolen" from them and CS just wasn't motivated to get her back. I also think it is possible they would have come back for Jr. if MC hadn't awoken. The fake search w/ planted evidence by MG and the Sheffields also sets off some huge red flags for me, why bother, why plant stuff for no reason, there has to be a reason, it makes no sense.

And finally the stranger abduction, I think this is also a strong possibility. The primitive, handmade, stick chair in the woods behind the home creeps me out. I think someone could have been watching, obsessed w/ Haleigh and this night after Misty being gone all weekend and RC gone from the home presented the perfect opportunity. The block for the door to me shows some thought about how to get her out of there when she was asleep. And goodness knows there were enough SO around her home that they or some of their friends could have ample opportunity to watch little Haleigh.

And finally I do think Haleigh could have overdosed at a party somewhere, but I think Jr. would have said they left the home that night.

So w/o very much evidence to go on at all, that all I got. If more about that night is told by LE I am open to looking at all theories again.

 

[Flossie JMO]

Who thinks that happened? I haven't seen that theory.

Neither have I.

 

[Skully]

I sat down, with everything that is FACT and LE released to us and did a time line. Then with that time line, I did a theory, step by step, as if I were taking this child and wrote it all up. I can "make" Ron fit into it, but it is a tight squeeze in my mind. I would post it in the theory thread, but it is two pages long. I based my theory on Motive, opportunity and Means. If you don't have one of these, it's doesn't hold up. My motive was; covering up an accidental crime, for fear of losing JR and Jail time. Has anyone else done this with the family abduction or SO theory?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

People have said they hear Ron in the background slamming cuboard doors on the 911 tape. Any idea what he would be looking for because surely it wasn't Haleigh?

 

[Skully]

People have said they hear Ron in the background slamming cuboard doors on the 911 tape. Any idea what he would be looking for because surely it wasn't Haleigh?

I heard it on the early calls. I think it was on the Geraldo site; but I thought it could have been the washer or dryer lids after they released the cloths were dirty in the dryer. I was thinking he came home and was staging as Misty was on the phone. The reason for this train of thought was because of her description of the entrance to the 911 operator. She is describing the front entrance not the side ramp door. Many say she is just confused or dismiss this. I thought she may have been confused too, as to which door was being bricked. But now as time passed, IDK anymore.

 

[curvecuti]

I sat down, with everything that is FACT and LE released to us and did a time line. Then with that time line, I did a theory, step by step, as if I were taking this child and wrote it all up. I can "make" Ron fit into it, but it is a tight squeeze in my mind. I would post it in the theory thread, but it is two pages long. I based my theory on Motive, opportunity and Means. If you don't have one of these, it's doesn't hold up. My motive was; covering up an accidental crime, for fear of losing JR and Jail time. Has anyone else done this with the family abduction or SO theory?

Quick question Bern, do you think the accident occured in the home? If so, how do you think they managed to do away w/ the physical evidence? And if it was away from home, how did they keep Jr. from telling? Those are 2 of the things holding me back on the accident theory, along w/ body disposal. TIA! For awhile I had pages and pages in a notebook on this case. I was becoming obsessed, so I took a break, from here and from the case and I am not keeping notes anymore, it consumes my life if I do and since I have a 6yr old, I want to be consumed w/ her!

 

[curvecuti]

I heard some slamming but I thought it was Ron venting his anger by slamming stuff, I can see my husband doing this in the same situation. I don't think he was looking for Haleigh or anything else. Since we can't "see" what is going on I have to reseve judgement on that issue.