Theories: How Would Elizabeth have killed Gabe?

[YellowSubmarine]

As for many here, it's hard for me to fathom this. I truly believe he is alive. Other cases I've followed, the ones I've felt right away the person was dead, I was right and with Gabe, I don't. raying:

*If* I were to have to speculate . . . my first thought is I could see her smothering him. I feel she probably snapped. The only other option for me would be if she had a little more time to "plan" it, I think she might have drowned him. Either way, I think she probably left his body in the room for a brief period, as he was just an object to her (which also could explain the "cold, blue body" comment). Then, I think she would have thrown him away in the nearest place - presumably the hotel dumpster. I don't think she would have been inconvenienced to go out of the way. It was not a big deal and she was already detached from him. I don't really see her abusing Gabe or killing him violently in a fit of rage, as that takes emotion. I don't think she had enough attachment to Gabe to physically abuse/kill him.

I know that sounds odd -- I remember a story several years ago, wish I could remember the moms name -- The woman had a child, they were happy, bonded. At some point, the mom started developing some sort of personality/mental disorder. Six years later, she had another baby and her disorder got worse. She was never attached to the new baby. She began abusing the older child. Just before the baby's first birthday, the mom took the two of them to a field, where she proceeded to smother the baby and bury him. Her and the older son went back home. I remember an analyst saying abuse takes energy and when you aren't emotionally attached to someone, you aren't going to take the energy to abuse them. Violent deaths need emotion. People with no emotion towards the person will choose an emotionless death such as smothering or drowning. They also won't take the time to elaborately rid of the body. IF they even remove the body from the scene of the death, they won't move them far.

I am still going to hold steadfast that Gabe is alive and will be going home to his family soon!

 

[iluvmua]

Gabe was never seen at a park. You can find all his sightings on the case calendar. His last sighting was on Dec 26 between 1 and 3pm at the hotel.

Was that when the pictures at the hotel were taken? between 1 & 3 pm on December 26th?
and was that after she supposedly went to that park at 10:00?

 

[kissdegirl]

Was that when the pictures at the hotel were taken? between 1 & 3 pm on December 26th?
and was that after she supposedly went to that park at 10:00?

SAPD police chief confirms at about 2 minutes into the second video, the last sighting of them together was between 1-3pm the 26th, at the hotel. To my knowledge, they have never released when the pictures were taken, other than to say they were taken sometime on the 26th.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1608&day=2009-12-26&c=6

 

[rekabal]

Was that when the pictures at the hotel were taken? between 1 & 3 pm on December 26th?
and was that after she supposedly went to that park at 10:00?

She and Gabe were sighted at the hotel between 1 and 3 by hotel staff - I don't know when the pictures were taken, but sometime on the 26th.

The 10am park visit comes from her journal - when she says she was supposed to meet "the couple" at the park and hand off Gabe. HTH

 

[kissdegirl]

She and Gabe were sighted at the hotel between 1 and 3 by hotel staff - I don't know when the pictures were taken, but sometime on the 26th.

The 10am park visit comes from her journal - when she says she was supposed to meet "the couple" at the park and hand off Gabe. HTH

The pictures were dated the 26th.

Here's the calendar for the 27th, says there were witnesses that saw EJ shopping without Gabe that day....no time given.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1556&day=2009-12-27&c=6

 

[BeanE]

Was that when the pictures at the hotel were taken? between 1 & 3 pm on December 26th?
and was that after she supposedly went to that park at 10:00?

Please see the case calendar for source reference links, as well as case event dates and times.

The pictures were taken on Dec 26, at an unknown time.

Gabe's last sighting was on Dec 26 between 1 and 3 at the hotel.

The PI said Elizabeth and Gabe went to the park on Dec 27 at 10am.

 

[BeanE]

She and Gabe were sighted at the hotel between 1 and 3 by hotel staff - I don't know when the pictures were taken, but sometime on the 26th.

The 10am park visit comes from her journal - when she says she was supposed to meet "the couple" at the park and hand off Gabe. HTH

The hotel sighting of Gabe and the pics of him at the hotel were on Dec 26.

The 10am park visit was supposed to be on Dec 27.

 

[TXHOPE]

Hate to bring this thread back up but IF EJ did harm Gabriel I think she could of put him in the baby bag and put the baby bag in the huge back pack she was seen with at the bus station, boarded the bus and dumped the baby bag in the trash at the first stop on the bus route from here to Florida. I'm still holding on to the fact that he may still be alive but if I have to think of the alternative this way seems to make sense. I wonder if her back pack that was found was completely full or if there was room for the baby bag to possibly fit??

 

[DaneBramage]

@ TXHOPE- That is what I surmised at the beginning. That is before I started believing that Gabriel was alive.

 

[iluvmua]

right now, the only answer I can come up with is that she killed him.

She knows if she talks, she's in BIG trouble.

I'm thinking either strangulation or drowning.

 

[kappy50]

Hate to bring this thread back up but IF EJ did harm Gabriel I think she could of put him in the baby bag and put the baby bag in the huge back pack she was seen with at the bus station, boarded the bus and dumped the baby bag in the trash at the first stop on the bus route from here to Florida. I'm still holding on to the fact that he may still be alive but if I have to think of the alternative this way seems to make sense. I wonder if her back pack that was found was completely full or if there was room for the baby bag to possibly fit??

But the back pack would have to be really big wouldn't it ? Little GB would have do be say 10-15 pd's at the time, approx. 19-23 inches long...cumbersome I would think for her to handle....i dunno...

 

[saba]

right now, the only answer I can come up with is that she killed him.

She knows if she talks, she's in BIG trouble.

I'm thinking either strangulation or drowning.

hi Iluvmua- I went almost a month thinking the same thing- TS's behavior has convinced me otherwise ( the smirk, the nasty attacks on LM.) I also think there are people who would pay for a baby on an hour's notice.

Having said all that, I am unnerved by EJ's history (really creepy that her mom drowned) and by the fact that her attorney has petitioned for a mental exam- maybe we'll learn more from that-

I hope you're wrong, but both women involved here have extremely complicated and disturbing histories- not a recipe for a positive outcome.

Still, about that smirk...

 

[iluvmua]

hi Iluvmua- I went almost a month thinking the same thing- TS's behavior has convinced me otherwise ( the smirk, the nasty attacks on LM.) I also think there are people who would pay for a baby on an hour's notice.

Having said all that, I am unnerved by EJ's history (really creepy that her mom drowned) and by the fact that her attorney has petitioned for a mental exam- maybe we'll learn more from that-

I hope you're wrong, but both women involved here have extremely complicated and disturbing histories- not a recipe for a positive outcome.

Still, about that smirk...

I hope I'm wrong too. But at this point it is def. not looking good.

 

[noopy]

I agree iluvmua. Sadly I've been thinking this way since April after she wouldn't talk for that long... and then leaving him out in her fake will. I'm thinking suffocation or drowning.
She could have disposed of him anywhere in SA before she hopped on that bus. I don't think she'd carry his body around in a backpack, at the risk of getting caught... I'd say he's somewhere in SA, but it's like looking for a needle in the ocean. He could even still be in that landfill, it seemed like that search was over pretty quick...

 

[peanutgallery]

If I could have my wish, Gabriel is thriving in a safe and loving home. But I think that he is dead and that Elizabeth did exactly what she described in her shocking message to Logan. This is my theory and it is only my opinion:

Elizabeth lost interest in her child.

Elizabeth wanted to let the child go, but did not want to give the child to the father, a person she hates.

Elizabeth wanted to start a new life and needed money. She discovered that Gabriel could possibly be sold to someone who wants to adopt a child. She tells herself that this would be the right thing for Gabriel and hopes to make thousands of dollars for herself in the bargain.

Elizabeth tries to arrange an adoption sale in Texas. She may have had a tentative deal set up or she “shops” Gabriel around in San Antonio. For some reason, no one is buying that week. Maybe her false paperwork was no good. Or, as beautiful as Gabriel is, he might not have tested out very well. If you were going to pay $20,000 or more for a baby, wouldn’t you want it to be as perfect as possible? Prospective parents sometimes use “adoption doctors” who either go with the parents or are able to view the baby on video in order to give the parents advice about the developmental stage of a baby. The baby’s health records are examined, if they are available. I have never seen a picture of Gabriel sitting up by himself—something he should be able to do at his age. Poor Gabriel probably suffered from general neglect—no playing, no cuddling, long periods of isolation, lack of stimulating toys, skimpy feeding routines, etc. Although he is a pretty baby, the adoption doctor might say that his development is lagging. Gabriel could catch up, but prospective parents might reject him due to the uncertainty of his condition. For whatever reason, Gabriel was unsold on December 26.

Elizabeth may have been told “Your baby seems slow. He will not sell for as much and finding a buyer will take longer”. But time is running out for her. She can’t go back to Arizona and now she thinks that Gabriel will not get a new home very soon, if ever. She refuses to give him to his father. In her mind, the baby has a bleak future and the best option is to make him die. She decides to drug him so that he will not squirm or squeal and will appear to be sleeping. She dresses him for a car ride (thus the white knit cap and warm sleepers). She then drives him to a place where she suffocates him and disposes of his body. She does not kill him ahead of time because she does not want to transport a dead body—too risky in case she is pulled over. She then sends Logan the vividly-worded message about suffocating Gabriel and stuffing him in a diaper bag. She leaves everything behind and departs San Antonio. Oh, two things are unaccounted for among the items she abandoned—her son, Gabriel, and a diaper bag. When questioned by police, Elizabeth tells a vague story about giving the baby to an unknown couple during a chance meeting at a local park.

How do I see Tammie and Jack’s role in all this? I don’t see them involved much at all, other than maybe considering an adoption. They seem a little evasive, but based on the photographs, while Gabriel stayed with them, he looked robust and happy, in contrast to his appearance in the pictures taken in the San Antonio motel room.

Why did Elizabeth take pictures of Gabriel holding a medicine bottle and drinking a red, syrupy liquid from a pacifier medicine dispenser? Gabriel’s eyes are droopy in two snapshots. It is doubtful that he would be caught in the middle of a blink in two completely different pictures. Gabriel is being drugged so he will be easy to kill. I think she was going to send these pictures to Logan as part of her last, vengeful communication to him.

What about these Good Samaritan underground people who might have taken Gabriel for safe-keeping? Bless them, if they exist. But are they prepared to keep him until he is 18?

I hope someone can give me hope that something good happened to Gabriel, but it has been so long with no information. Little child, if your mother doesn’t want you, you are in great peril….

 

[noopy]

i believe that is what happened to gabriel as well.... and i don't believe this park couple exists. i think tammi and jack are not involved in his disappearance either. i do believe in her original text msg and that she dropped him in the trash, but which trash we don't know, it could very well be somewhere other than near the motel, and thus, LE would not have searched in the correct area of the landfill. another thing that strikes me as gabe is not alive is that in her will, she never mentions him... IF he's with some couple, wouldn't she write something to him, such as have a nice new life, or hope you are safe? it indicates to me, that he's not alive and therefore doesn't need to be addressed in her last words, or, she has completely no regard for him, and the latter case does not bode well for gabe either.
i'm no dr, but drinking that much tylenol, when a child his age should only be given about 2.5ml - 3ml, could very well damage his liver or make him unconscious. i had thought she accidentally killed him in a rage, but i'm not sure now.
as for gabe's development being slow, he was just 8 mos at disappearance, from my own experience, babies usually start sitting at 7 or 8 mos, not sitting up properly at 8 mos does not indicate slow development at all, sitting at or around 8 mos is normal. i don't know if gabe was slower, but just saying starting to sit at 8 or just past 8 mos is normal.
i still don't know why she took those pictures tho... they were disturbing.

 

[artsy1]

Just because EJ hadn't addressed Gabe in her will doesn't mean she killed him. She didn't mention her brother or Grandfather, either, and we know she didn't kill them.

 

[noopy]

Just because EJ hadn't addressed Gabe in her will doesn't mean she killed him. She didn't mention her brother or Grandfather, either, and we know she didn't kill them.

very true artsy... but her bro and grandpa also aren't missing and weren't drugged with a quart of tylenol...
but, it's not just not mentioning him in the will, it's EVERYTHING added together- her not providing a full honest story even after months of being in jail (IMO), her mental issues (she is incompetent to stand trial who knows what other issues she had that were not diagnosed or latent - she certainly is capable of hurting people in jail and destroying objects in her rages), the fact there's no gabe sighting at all after 12/26, and her own admission in the original text, .... isn't there a chance she made up the couple to backpeddal and save her but since she got caught by the police? she's still competent enough to know that murder = either life in prison, or a long time in prison, or death penalty.

 

[artsy1]

very true artsy... but her bro and grandpa also aren't missing and weren't drugged with a quart of tylenol...
but, it's not just not mentioning him in the will, it's EVERYTHING added together- her not providing a full honest story even after months of being in jail (IMO), her mental issues (she is incompetent to stand trial who knows what other issues she had that were not diagnosed or latent - she certainly is capable of hurting people in jail and destroying objects in her rages), the fact there's no gabe sighting at all after 12/26, and her own admission in the original text, .... isn't there a chance she made up the couple to backpeddal and save her but since she got caught by the police? she's still competent enough to know that murder = either life in prison, or a long time in prison, or death penalty.

BBM

No publicized sighting of Gabe. If there was suspicion that Gabe was in danger, I believe no one involved in the case would ever publicize it and make whoever had Gabe go further into hiding.

 

[jenny1976]

I don't think she was drugging Gabe with Tylenol. She may have been using something like Benadryl. Unfortunately, some parents use antihistamines to sedate their kids. Too much Tylenol could definitely cause liver damage to an infant, but I think she was using something with more sedative properties. I would think a Tylenol overdose would cause a slow, miserable death for an infant.

As far as Gabe's development, didn't EJ post on her myspace page that he was starting to crawl? That's pretty normal for an infant to start crawling at 8-9 months. I would say he's right on track. Just because there are no photos of him sitting alone does not mean he wasn't able to do so.