In general, I agree with you about Casey and her mother and the family dynamic there...especially where it concerned Caylee (poor innocent baby caught between the crossfire) and what appears to be her death. The only thing I question - and I'm not even certain how seriously you even meant this part of your comments - is that if Casey intended for the car to be "stolen" from the parking lot where she left it, then why call Tony to come pick her up from said parking lot?
Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #1
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Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3- Latest: Charlot123
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In general, I agree with you about Casey and her mother and the family dynamic there...especially where it concerned Caylee (poor innocent baby caught between the crossfire) and what appears to be her death. The only thing I question - and I'm not even certain how seriously you even meant this part of your comments - is that if Casey intended for the car to be "stolen" from the parking lot where she left it, then why call Tony to come pick her up from said parking lot?
I wanted more than anything to bellieve this line of rationale for the first few weeks...but now that she's got at least 2 attorneys, and maybe a 3rd, and is now refusing to see her parents and her brother for scheduled visits, seems to me that the child is no longer with us. Otherwise, why wouldn't her attorneys have had her produce the child? I mean at this point, no matter when/where/how the child reappeared, Casey's not going to be getting off easy on the pending charges, so why prolong/put off producing Caylee??? While I want her to be alive somewhere, I can't imagine she is, or Casey would've quit the charade already...her 2-3 attorneys, none of whom have quit/withdrawn from her representation, surely wouldn't continue representing her if they actually KNEW the little girl was alive and well somewhere, would they??? wouldn't they insist on the little girl being produced???
gracefuljf1505
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I would like to hope as well, however I have a feelings she i no longer with us either. As far as the attorny's, I would like to think that if they knew that Caylee was still alive and well they were demand she be produced however it is very likly that they aent. I mean i have heard of cooked cops don't you think its possible to have crooked attornys too? But that's just my opinion.
heavenlydaze
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I have a theory and it's not a pretty one. First of all, it's hard to keep up with all of these posts, and there may be something in my idea that doesn't 'work' for one reason or another...but here's the basics.
The other night, I went to bed thinking about this case. Something was in my mind and I couldn't get rid of it. It was the pictures. The pictures of Casey leaning over the toilet obviously sick and 'out of it' due to partying, and the pics of the 'friends' she was partying with and the one of the men passed out on her floor. Bear with me here, because to get into what I'm thinking I need to go back in time to when I was younger.
I'm in my 50's now, but a LONG time ago, I was in a band. I partied like there was no tomorrow. I drank to excess and openly admit to 'blackouts'. Blackouts are just that...parts of time that you can't remember, even though you were awake. Very scary, and very shameful. Nothing you would admit to unless you were actively seeking help for the dependance problem, but...your friends know. They're 'enablers' and maybe they even take advantage of your problem.
Casey had Caylee with her a lot. Sure, Gram & Gramp would watch her, usually at night, but the party goes on even when they can't, and a lot of it happens during the day. She takes her child with her.
She's mad at her parents, and does what many, many substance abusers due. She uses her anger as an excuse to get plastered/high. She doesn't go to a bar/club this time. She goes to someone's house and the party begins. Maybe it's just a few 'friends', maybe there's people there she doesn't know, but the more she indulges, the foggier everything gets. She eventually passes out.
LOOK at the 'friends' in these pictures and imaging Caylee sleeping somewhere in what-ever party house.
I don't think Casey killed Caylee, but I think one of these people did. Maybe an accident, maybe something worse.
The killer knows Casey is out of it and knows she's unaware of what's happened, but there's this little problem of the body. Maybe he has a car, maybe he doesn't, but that's not an issue because Casey has a car. Now, one of several things happens, and the scenario branches off...but try this:
If there are other people in the house, maybe they're passed out or sleeping, or maybe there's a back door...or maybe it's just him & Casey. Whatever. The killer wraps the body in something. Maybe a sheet or blanket, and to avoid making a lot of noise rummaging through Casey's purse for car keys, he simply takes the purse with him. He places Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car. He knows he has to do something about it, but for whatever reason, he doesn't. Not right then. He needs to think. In the meantime, the body begins to decompose.
At some point, Casey comes to. She asks where Caylee is. The killer says she's with so-and-so, or some explanation that seems reasonable to Casey in her current state. He needs to keep her sedated, or maybe kill her too, but things are bad enough and another body would really complicate things.
He's had some time to think and makes sure Casey is well inebriated again. He's decided to take Casey with him to dispose of the body and carries her to the car. Can't leave her where she is. Can't risk her trying to find Caylee. Maybe he's been in that car before, so traces of him wouldn't be unusual.
The scenario needs help here, and I've really tried to keep up, but you guys are TOO good (LOTS of info) The abandoned car, the time-line, help me out here.
Maybe I'm way off base with all of this, and it may or may not fit, but Casey isn't the brightest cracker jack in the box, and I think she would believe just about anything if it sounded in her favor. After all...how do we explain to mummy & daddy that we've LOST our daughter? That we CAN'T REMEMBER because we were drunk/high? In Casey's mind, everything makes perfect sense. The killer may have told her that Caylee is safe. He may even have threatened her in some way, and he might have even thrown the name of the phantom babysitter ,"Z" at her.
Shoot, maybe Casey accidently killed her, I just don't think so. I think she would have blown the cover-up. There's a difference between being a good liar and a good actress, and she ain't a good actress, folks. She can't even act like a concerned parent.
The other night, I went to bed thinking about this case. Something was in my mind and I couldn't get rid of it. It was the pictures. The pictures of Casey leaning over the toilet obviously sick and 'out of it' due to partying, and the pics of the 'friends' she was partying with and the one of the men passed out on her floor. Bear with me here, because to get into what I'm thinking I need to go back in time to when I was younger.
I'm in my 50's now, but a LONG time ago, I was in a band. I partied like there was no tomorrow. I drank to excess and openly admit to 'blackouts'. Blackouts are just that...parts of time that you can't remember, even though you were awake. Very scary, and very shameful. Nothing you would admit to unless you were actively seeking help for the dependance problem, but...your friends know. They're 'enablers' and maybe they even take advantage of your problem.
Casey had Caylee with her a lot. Sure, Gram & Gramp would watch her, usually at night, but the party goes on even when they can't, and a lot of it happens during the day. She takes her child with her.
She's mad at her parents, and does what many, many substance abusers due. She uses her anger as an excuse to get plastered/high. She doesn't go to a bar/club this time. She goes to someone's house and the party begins. Maybe it's just a few 'friends', maybe there's people there she doesn't know, but the more she indulges, the foggier everything gets. She eventually passes out.
LOOK at the 'friends' in these pictures and imaging Caylee sleeping somewhere in what-ever party house.
I don't think Casey killed Caylee, but I think one of these people did. Maybe an accident, maybe something worse.
The killer knows Casey is out of it and knows she's unaware of what's happened, but there's this little problem of the body. Maybe he has a car, maybe he doesn't, but that's not an issue because Casey has a car. Now, one of several things happens, and the scenario branches off...but try this:
If there are other people in the house, maybe they're passed out or sleeping, or maybe there's a back door...or maybe it's just him & Casey. Whatever. The killer wraps the body in something. Maybe a sheet or blanket, and to avoid making a lot of noise rummaging through Casey's purse for car keys, he simply takes the purse with him. He places Caylee in the trunk of Casey's car. He knows he has to do something about it, but for whatever reason, he doesn't. Not right then. He needs to think. In the meantime, the body begins to decompose.
At some point, Casey comes to. She asks where Caylee is. The killer says she's with so-and-so, or some explanation that seems reasonable to Casey in her current state. He needs to keep her sedated, or maybe kill her too, but things are bad enough and another body would really complicate things.
He's had some time to think and makes sure Casey is well inebriated again. He's decided to take Casey with him to dispose of the body and carries her to the car. Can't leave her where she is. Can't risk her trying to find Caylee. Maybe he's been in that car before, so traces of him wouldn't be unusual.
The scenario needs help here, and I've really tried to keep up, but you guys are TOO good (LOTS of info) The abandoned car, the time-line, help me out here.
Maybe I'm way off base with all of this, and it may or may not fit, but Casey isn't the brightest cracker jack in the box, and I think she would believe just about anything if it sounded in her favor. After all...how do we explain to mummy & daddy that we've LOST our daughter? That we CAN'T REMEMBER because we were drunk/high? In Casey's mind, everything makes perfect sense. The killer may have told her that Caylee is safe. He may even have threatened her in some way, and he might have even thrown the name of the phantom babysitter ,"Z" at her.
Shoot, maybe Casey accidently killed her, I just don't think so. I think she would have blown the cover-up. There's a difference between being a good liar and a good actress, and she ain't a good actress, folks. She can't even act like a concerned parent.
my2cents
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Heavenlydaze--
I could actually go along with part of that. But she would have told LE all of this (where she was, where Caylee was) if she really cared about her child. She doesn't even ask about how the search is going for her child.
It also doesn't explain the dog hits in the yard. My theory is that Caylee got in the pool and Casey saw that she was drowning. She didn't help her because she saw this as her way out of being a mommy.
She took the baby out of the pool and laid her on the ground next to the pool (first dog hit). Made a flurry of calls to mom and dad to make it look like it was an accident. She decided against that and transported her in her trunk.
I really could go along with you on this if you can account for why the dogs hit in her yard. From a legal point of view, that would be plausible and if the dog hits could be explained away (IF they can be reasonably explained away), it would be a good defense to use to argue "Beyond a reasonable doubt" has not been met.
I could actually go along with part of that. But she would have told LE all of this (where she was, where Caylee was) if she really cared about her child. She doesn't even ask about how the search is going for her child.
It also doesn't explain the dog hits in the yard. My theory is that Caylee got in the pool and Casey saw that she was drowning. She didn't help her because she saw this as her way out of being a mommy.
She took the baby out of the pool and laid her on the ground next to the pool (first dog hit). Made a flurry of calls to mom and dad to make it look like it was an accident. She decided against that and transported her in her trunk.
I really could go along with you on this if you can account for why the dogs hit in her yard. From a legal point of view, that would be plausible and if the dog hits could be explained away (IF they can be reasonably explained away), it would be a good defense to use to argue "Beyond a reasonable doubt" has not been met.
Here is my latest and greatest thoughts on this:
June 15th - Caylee at GGP Nursing home.
June 16th - Caylee & Casey leave at 12:50, like "any other day". After George leaves, as she has done in the past Casey returns home, after she knows it is empty. Go Swim, Eat, use computer, etc. Something happens, maybe it is Casey in the pool and Caylee is in the house and gets hurt. Or Casey is inside and Caylee climbs the ladder and drowns, or falls off it and hits her head.
Casey tries to contact family, but like boy who cried wolf, they are unresponsive this time. Casey tries to navigate the developing terror, but Caylee later perishes. Again more calls go unanswered a couple of hours after the first flurry.
Not knowing what to do but get out of there, Casey packs up clothes, toys, etc into a few duffel bags,one of which contains her daughter's body. Casey loads up the car and stays at Tony's.
ALTERNATE: The Zanax theory, either way Caylee is no longer with us on the morning of the 17th.
June 17 - Casey needs to get rid of body, she goes home again but shed it locked. She borrows shovel from a neighbor, for just an hour. This is long enough to move the playhouse and dig the hole, and put playhouse back. This can account for no decomp. smell on shovel.
Perhaps this days she looks for scapegoat at Apartment complex.
June 18 - Casey returns home and backs her car into Garage, which noticed by neighbor.
She takes duffel bag our of trunk and then buries Caylee under the playhouse & covers it all back up.
June 20 - Fusian "Hot Body Contest"
June 23 - Casey returns home needing a way to burn evidence (ie., clothes, blanket). She breaks into shed and takes cans as portable fuel source. Later disposes of evidence.
June 24 - Casey back at home, maybe to return cans, and is met by George who finds the cans.
June 25 -> 27 - Casey must move the body for whatever reason, maybe she remembers George has contracted to have pavers put under playhouse. Either way, she moves Caylee int the trunk, but the body has putrefied and fluids leak & hair falls out, and some dirt is put into the trunk.
June 27 - after the above, or if that was done the day before, she gets in her car and is like 'WTF, my car smells like Satan took a in here" and decides to dump the car, leaving the purse in hopes of theft or making herself also be kidnapped.
June 15th - Caylee at GGP Nursing home.
June 16th - Caylee & Casey leave at 12:50, like "any other day". After George leaves, as she has done in the past Casey returns home, after she knows it is empty. Go Swim, Eat, use computer, etc. Something happens, maybe it is Casey in the pool and Caylee is in the house and gets hurt. Or Casey is inside and Caylee climbs the ladder and drowns, or falls off it and hits her head.
Casey tries to contact family, but like boy who cried wolf, they are unresponsive this time. Casey tries to navigate the developing terror, but Caylee later perishes. Again more calls go unanswered a couple of hours after the first flurry.
Not knowing what to do but get out of there, Casey packs up clothes, toys, etc into a few duffel bags,one of which contains her daughter's body. Casey loads up the car and stays at Tony's.
ALTERNATE: The Zanax theory, either way Caylee is no longer with us on the morning of the 17th.
June 17 - Casey needs to get rid of body, she goes home again but shed it locked. She borrows shovel from a neighbor, for just an hour. This is long enough to move the playhouse and dig the hole, and put playhouse back. This can account for no decomp. smell on shovel.
Perhaps this days she looks for scapegoat at Apartment complex.
June 18 - Casey returns home and backs her car into Garage, which noticed by neighbor.
She takes duffel bag our of trunk and then buries Caylee under the playhouse & covers it all back up.
June 20 - Fusian "Hot Body Contest"
June 23 - Casey returns home needing a way to burn evidence (ie., clothes, blanket). She breaks into shed and takes cans as portable fuel source. Later disposes of evidence.
June 24 - Casey back at home, maybe to return cans, and is met by George who finds the cans.
June 25 -> 27 - Casey must move the body for whatever reason, maybe she remembers George has contracted to have pavers put under playhouse. Either way, she moves Caylee int the trunk, but the body has putrefied and fluids leak & hair falls out, and some dirt is put into the trunk.
June 27 - after the above, or if that was done the day before, she gets in her car and is like 'WTF, my car smells like Satan took a in here" and decides to dump the car, leaving the purse in hopes of theft or making herself also be kidnapped.
QuickAttack
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I'm adding this to the Theory Thread. I posted it in a GenDis thread last night...I think it was GenDis 87.
Casey died on the 16th, possibly at the house. Of the calls, none go to the house during the 4-4:30 "flurry." So possibly something happened to Caylee between 1:30 and 4:00. Caylee's body may have been at the house on the 16th, overnight until the 17th.
So, let's say Casey killed Caylee at the house and then hid Caylee's body at the house or in the yard on the 16th.
On the 17th...she borrows the shovel and buries Caylee in the back yard.
Then, overnight, worry that someone might find her.
On the 18th, backs into the driveway, goes to the back yard and pulls Caylee out of the ground...it's easier to pull a body from dirt that's been replaced in a hole than to dig a hole. Takes her to the trunk and then to another place to dump her.
This would explain the dirt in the trunk, and other details.
I'm sure that there are 100 other explanations that are just as logical...this just hit me, though...quite heavily.
Casey died on the 16th, possibly at the house. Of the calls, none go to the house during the 4-4:30 "flurry." So possibly something happened to Caylee between 1:30 and 4:00. Caylee's body may have been at the house on the 16th, overnight until the 17th.
So, let's say Casey killed Caylee at the house and then hid Caylee's body at the house or in the yard on the 16th.
On the 17th...she borrows the shovel and buries Caylee in the back yard.
Then, overnight, worry that someone might find her.
On the 18th, backs into the driveway, goes to the back yard and pulls Caylee out of the ground...it's easier to pull a body from dirt that's been replaced in a hole than to dig a hole. Takes her to the trunk and then to another place to dump her.
This would explain the dirt in the trunk, and other details.
I'm sure that there are 100 other explanations that are just as logical...this just hit me, though...quite heavily.
tttterri
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What do you think?
Casey's posts to Amy on face book and myspace suggested that the same weekend that Caylee was last seen would be the one that her and Amy would become roomies, "just us girls"! Cindy mentioned, when trying to validate a sitter, that Casey had written lists in her top drawer with things like "Caylee's Favorite Foods" ect. These type of lists would be needed for anyone not well familiar with Caylee's likes and dislikes. Then, there are those strange emails Casey had in her email box that Lee sent to the detective; those didnt have real email addresses. The visit to Sawgrass by a real ZG on the 17th. Can anyone list any other things they have noticed or heard that would go along with the "planned" theory? Thanks.
Casey's posts to Amy on face book and myspace suggested that the same weekend that Caylee was last seen would be the one that her and Amy would become roomies, "just us girls"! Cindy mentioned, when trying to validate a sitter, that Casey had written lists in her top drawer with things like "Caylee's Favorite Foods" ect. These type of lists would be needed for anyone not well familiar with Caylee's likes and dislikes. Then, there are those strange emails Casey had in her email box that Lee sent to the detective; those didnt have real email addresses. The visit to Sawgrass by a real ZG on the 17th. Can anyone list any other things they have noticed or heard that would go along with the "planned" theory? Thanks.
newtv
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i think there is a similar thread on this..maybe we should try to find it so we abide by the rules.
LI_Mom
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I don't know if this could be part of a "plan" but when we found out they 'moved' without taking Caylee's FAVORITE stuffed animal (toy?)... I knew something was wrong with the picture.
Did Caylee KNOW she was moving out of her home?
If so, she would have insisted on taking it. Like a normal child.
If not, then the whole family was lying about the whole 'vacation' thing & Casey actually ran away to live her own life.
Did Caylee KNOW she was moving out of her home?
If so, she would have insisted on taking it. Like a normal child.
If not, then the whole family was lying about the whole 'vacation' thing & Casey actually ran away to live her own life.
tttterri
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I havent heard anything on any of Caylee's clothing being anywhere at all. Even when Cindy speaks, she says LE took some of CASEYS things, and she mentions bags of CASEYS things she retrieved from Tonys house later, the ones that smelled like smoke. I wish Greta would have looked in the closets like she looked in the shed Cindy didnt seem to want her to open.
coltsgal
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Here ya go, it's a thread dedicated to our theories.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67854&highlight=theories+happened+caylee
If your daughter was lying, being secretive, partying too much, stealing gasoline...Wouldn't you change the locks on her last day at the house...So you could go on vacation in peace.....I really believe this was the reason for the "flurry of phone calls" to her family & the reason no one answered her. Casey had gone ballistic when she realized she was "locked out"
commongrackle
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Youtube has not been working for me for a while...? A couple weeks now..? Not sure how to fix this problem.
Anyway...this reverse speech...I don't quite get it...
NighTillDawn
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About the pavers, did they ever put the concrete in? Has anyone checked to make sure there isn't a body underneath it?
Cindy said she took a week off from work for her 50th birthday.
I think it was the end of June/early July.
June 22nd? Shed broken into...Was it a new lock after the other times gasoline was stolen.
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