Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[Bittiness39]

I believe this is the link back to June 16, 08 in the archives. Hope this is what you're looking for. http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KFLORLAN45&day=16&year=2008&month=6
The archives are still there under History and Almanac half way down the page on the left on the link you provided. Scalliwags hid it amongst all the other data :crazy:

You are awesome. I know Off Topic. But still. Awesome. I always thought that the storm that day played a much larger role. JMO. But it was an above average storm that day. TY!

 

[Bittiness39]

You are awesome. I know Off Topic. But still. Awesome. I always thought that the storm that day played a much larger role. JMO. But it was an above average storm that day. TY!

Ugghh...they have totally changed the site since then. Is there any way to get the actual weather on that date? I used to post on another site and trust me, it rained for two hours that afternoon. The end of the storm in that zip code coincided with the start of the flurry of phone calls. I know because I based a whole theory, at the time, around that. Also, why I abandoned the accidental pool drowning thing.

 

[ibyoungr]

I've mentioned this before...not in this thread. But at the time I believe Caylee was killed...in that zip code (I would have to go back in my notes...but the zip code in which KC's parents live) there was a horrible thunderstorm that afternoon. Check the weather underground. That is why I never bought the swimming pool accidental drowning thing. It was raining cats and dogs then. Lightning too. Granted it rains all the time in places like Orlando but this was an above average storm. I believe it rained for at least two hours. After the rain stopped there was a flurry of phone calls from KC to GA and CA.
http://www.wunderground.com/US/FL/Orlando.html
Can someone help me out with this? I used to have the direct link to the archives. Maybe they have changed the site since I last visited.
My theory was at the time, the Caylee wouldn't be quiet and in direct response to quiet her...KC inadvertantly killed her. I believe differently now. I now think that KC lost her temper...that she had been resentful of Caylee, had been angry with her parents, had been plotting whatever she was plotting...but those flurries of phone calls do coincide (at least from my understanding) of the end of the storm...I don't know. Part of me still wants to believe she snapped because the "little snothead wouldn't shut up" and the other part of me believes she planned it. But can someone help me out with the weather underground stuff? I used to keep notes on this but have since moved when I used to post on another venue.

ITA! I have said this from day one that she had alot of frustration going on that day and Caylee was the brunt of it. I somehow think it was premeditated in the fact alone that Caylee was proving to be a burden and no longer beneficial to her so subconciously Casey wanted Caylee gone. The opportunity presented itself on one rainy afternoon when mommy wanted to party instead of potty train her child. I think it was both in her head to not want Caylee anymore but also to kill out of a moment's notice.

Thanks SO MUCH for pulling in this weather info...it really helps to "set the scene"

 

[FaerieB]

Ugghh...they have totally changed the site since then. Is there any way to get the actual weather on that date? I used to post on another site and trust me, it rained for two hours that afternoon. The end of the storm in that zip code coincided with the start of the flurry of phone calls. I know because I based a whole theory, at the time, around that. Also, why I abandoned the accidental pool drowning thing.

Is this the one you were looking for?

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMCO/2008/6/16/DailyHistory.html

 

[Bittiness39]

Is this the one you were looking for?

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMCO/2008/6/16/DailyHistory.html

TY. The researchers such as yourself, are way better than I. The reason I looked for rain on that particular day is because on of my BFF's was murdered by a serial killer in LA (baton rouge not cali) and I often wondered if he hit on rainy days to get out of situations without being seen. I just wondered why there were no calls at all from KC during the time of the storm and then the flurry hit right after it ended. Always have wondered. Will always wonder. Does someone have the time that the call flurries from KC started that afternoon?

 

[FaerieB]

TY. The researchers such as yourself, are way better than I. The reason I looked for rain on that particular day is because on of my BFF's was murdered by a serial killer in LA (baton rouge not cali) and I often wondered if he hit on rainy days to get out of situations without being seen. I just wondered why there were no calls at all from KC during the time of the storm and then the flurry hit right after it ended. Always have wondered. Will always wonder. Does someone have the time that the call flurries from KC started that afternoon?

Here are her calls for the day. It appears the flurry of calls starts at 4:10 PM.

8:46 AM calls AL
11:47 AM AL calls
12:53 PM calls AL
12:55 PM AL calls
1:00 PM AL calls 829 seconds
1:26 PM texts JG
1:37 PM text from JG
1:44 PM calls AH 2164 seconds
2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds
3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds
3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds
4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds
4:11 PM calls CA twice
4:13 PM calls CA twice
4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds
4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home)
4:19 PM text from AL
4:19 PM calls AL
4:21 PM calls JG twice; second call 75 seconds
4:25 PM calls CA 3 seconds (now pinging near AL's apt)
6:31 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls CA
6:32 PM calls home
7:06 PM calls home
7:20 PM calls AH
7:21 PM calls AH 42 seconds
8:03 PM calls Voice Mail
8:03 PM text from MH
10:45 PM text from AH
11:17 PM text from MH

 

[Bittiness39]

Here are her calls for the day. It appears the flurry of calls starts at 4:10 PM.

1:44 PM calls AH 2164 seconds
2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds
3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds
3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds
4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds
4:11 PM calls CA twice
4:13 PM calls CA twice
4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds
4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home)]

Respectfully snipped. Hope I am doing this right. Sorry if not but TY again. Notive the time between 1:44 pm and 3:04. There were calls to her, KC. Don't think they were answered but no outgoing calls. During the height of the storm. JMO> I could be wrong. But the time between especially 1:44pm and 3:35 pm has always bothered me. granted at the time I was looking for the rain angle. But also between 2:30 and 3:40 there was a storm.She was, KC is, a non-stop phone user. Why the hesitation between 1:44 and 3:35? Just a question. Though all of us have them. My guess is that is when Caylee died. That time period.

 

[AZlawyer]

Here are her calls for the day. It appears the flurry of calls starts at 4:10 PM.

1:44 PM calls AH 2164 seconds
2:52 PM call from JG 673 seconds
3:04 PM call from GA 25 seconds
3:35 PM calls AL 22 seconds
4:10 PM calls GA at work 34 seconds
4:11 PM calls CA twice
4:13 PM calls CA twice
4:14 PM calls GA 98 seconds
4:18 PM texts AL (now appears to be travelling away from Anthony home)]

Respectfully snipped. Hope I am doing this right. Sorry if not but TY again. Notive the time between 1:44 pm and 3:04. There were calls to her, KC. Don't think they were answered but no outgoing calls. During the height of the storm. JMO> I could be wrong. But the time between especially 1:44pm and 3:35 pm has always bothered me. granted at the time I was looking for the rain angle. But also between 2:30 and 3:40 there was a storm.She was, KC is, a non-stop phone user. Why the hesitation between 1:44 and 3:35? Just a question. Though all of us have them. My guess is that is when Caylee died. That time period.

:waitasec: She had 2 long conversations between 1:44 and 3:35 pm--one call from KC to Amy and one call from Jesse to KC.

 

[Bittiness39]

:waitasec: She had 2 long conversations between 1:44 and 3:35 pm--one call from KC to Amy and one call from Jesse to KC.

Just looking at the time. 673 seconds is not a long conversation. And they were calls to KC not calls from KC to whomever. If I understand it correctly. Sorry if I am wrong. you seem to be very good at the research. Guess I should go with 2:52 as being the point...but whatever something was happening at the time.

 

[nephers]

Just looking at the time. 673 seconds is not a long conversation. And they were calls to KC not calls from KC to whomever. If I understand it correctly. Sorry if I am wrong. you seem to be very good at the research.

The call to AH is roughly 36 min which puts her on the phone until roughly 2:20 then the call with JG is approx. 11 mins which puts her on the phone until just before she call GA at 3:04

 

[Bittiness39]

The call to AH is roughly 36 min which puts her on the phone until roughly 2:20 then the call with JG is approx. 11 mins which puts her on the phone until just before she call GA at 3:04

I am just looking at the time in which something happened (murder of Caylee) and I am looking at that day and what stands out is 30-40 minutes in which there were no calls. JMO.

 

[Marina2]

It just doesn't seem to be that much time that afternoon for something as devastating as your child dying, accident or otherwise, to happen and then to just be on your way to your boyfriend's house without a care in the world.

Also, by the looks of the call to GA, then 2 calls to CA, then back to GA, it appears that KC's conversation with GA involved him saying something like "I don't know, better call your mother and ask her". KC tries twice, no answer so she calls GA back and reports to him that she couldn't contact CA. If so, it could be that KC needed to make sure that it was alright with CA that she have the car that night and not return home with it. It's always been my thought that CA made KC stay home on the night of the 15th under threat of reporting the car stolen (post-fight punishment?). KC made those calls to be sure she had the ok from GA or CA and wouldn't be tracked down.

 

[Noddy]

TY. The researchers such as yourself, are way better than I. The reason I looked for rain on that particular day is because on of my BFF's was murdered by a serial killer in LA (baton rouge not cali) and I often wondered if he hit on rainy days to get out of situations without being seen. I just wondered why there were no calls at all from KC during the time of the storm and then the flurry hit right after it ended. Always have wondered. Will always wonder. Does someone have the time that the call flurries from KC started that afternoon?

LittleBitty35, here's a PDF from OUC.com that does show a rainfall of 1.15 on June 16. It's a weather comparison chart. http://www.ouc.com/business/Orlando Weather Comparison June 2008.pdf

 

[Rumpole]

I've heard more than one person mention that the tape was over the mouth AND the nose. Is this mentioned in any of the docs - that it was over the nose also?

The skull had no "nose" as such. I would imagine though that a 2" wide piece of tape on a 2 year old mouth might well obstruct nose as well.

 

[Rumpole]

I don't think chloroform played a part in Caylee's death.

The defense shouldn't argue the point by saying it could've been made by cleaning out the trunk with bleach and a solvent-based cleaner. Who cleans a trunk out with that? It seems to me that would just reinforce how bad the smell was in the trunk. Next, we'd have the prosecution asking CA if she cleaned out the trunk and, if so, what did she use.
CA, "I used bleach and a solvent-based cleaner. That pizza smelled horrible! Have you ever smelled pizza that's been sitting in the Florida heat for like 19 days!?" It was awful!"

Maybe it's best if the chloroform is left out altogether.

I don't think chloroform was involved either!

But if the "High levels" are brought up as PROOF of chloroform, what's the defence gunna do?

In my view some explanation of why chloroform MIGHT be there is esential.

The defence can hardly wax lyrical about normal decomposition if they are denying there was ever a body in the trunk?

If you are steering clear of the cleaning chemical explanation, what is your defence explanation for the chloroform??

 

[Marina2]

I don't think chloroform was involved either!

But if the "High levels" are brought up as PROOF of chloroform, what's the defence gunna do?

In my view some explanation of why chloroform MIGHT be there is esential.

The defence can hardly wax lyrical about normal decomposition if they are denying there was ever a body in the trunk?

If you are steering clear of the cleaning chemical explanation, what is your defence explanation for the chloroform??

I know you don't think chloroform was used. I was agreeing with you, not opposing you.

I have no idea what the defense explanation of the chloroform should be.

I guess they'd be in a bad situation if it's brought up. To say the trunk was cleaned with something that would combine to make chloroform would, imo, highlight the state the trunk was in, i.e. it smelled horrible. This is something they would want to play down. Also, the prosecution could likely offer proof that the trunk hadn't been cleaned at all. Who cleaned it, when was it cleaned, why was it cleaned. All these questions will be asked of somebody. You're right though, they'll have to explain it and this is the only thing I can think of that they can use.

I agree about using decomp as a reason for the chloroform...it would defeat their purpose. So...what should they say? Is there any other explanation? :waitasec: The prosecution will probably just put it out there and let the chips fall where they may. I'm interested in seeing what the defense will come up with that won't do more harm than good or can even be considered a reasonable explanation.

 

[Rumpole]

I know you don't think chloroform was used. I was agreeing with you, not opposing you.

I have no idea what the defense explanation of the chloroform should be.

I guess they'd be in a bad situation if it's brought up. To say the trunk was cleaned with something that would combine to make chloroform would, imo, highlight the state the trunk was in, i.e. it smelled horrible. This is something they would want to play down. Also, the prosecution could likely offer proof that the trunk hadn't been cleaned at all. Who cleaned it, when was it cleaned, why was it cleaned. All these questions will be asked of somebody. You're right though, they'll have to explain it and this is the only thing I can think of that they can use.

I agree about using decomp as a reason for the chloroform...it would defeat their purpose. So...what should they say? Is there any other explanation? :waitasec: The prosecution will probably just put it out there and let the chips fall where they may. I'm interested in seeing what the defense will come up with that won't do more harm than good or can even be considered a reasonable explanation.

I think we do agree. :cat:

But I can't think of a line other than "Cleaning chemicals". I don't see a problem if they claim the attrocious state of the trunk was because of the garbage rather than a body.
As I say, Defence don't have to prove it WAS cleaning products! Just that it COULD HAVE BEEN?

 

[Rumpole]

Agreed Hercule...no chloroform involved in death.

I am still undecided about the duct tape. Given KC kept the body in the trunk nearly three days tells me she was hesitant to part with it. The duct tape may have been used to prevent decomp fluid from continuing to seep into the trunk, thereby prolonging her ability to keep it in the trunk?

I too still concede the possibility that the tape was applied after death, but have grown to favour before death.
To be blunt, I think whether the tape actually WAS the cause of death or not, the case that it was can be argued. We do have the body of a 2 year old found with tape across mouth area. No drugs detected. No broken bones etc. I would argue the tape across mouth and nose is a strong possibility for COD

 

[Marina2]

I think we do agree. :cat:

But I can't think of a line other than "Cleaning chemicals". I don't see a problem if they claim the attrocious state of the trunk was because of the garbage rather than a body.
As I say, Defence don't have to prove it WAS cleaning products! Just that it COULD HAVE BEEN?

It would be a weak explanation if I were a juror.

The problem with that explanation is that the jury will see the pictures of the garbage and hear the "nose" witness testimony. They won't believe the atrocious state of the trunk was from that garbage. They won't believe that, in the midst of finding out Caylee is missing, CA, GA, or LA felt it important to clean that trunk with bleach and cleaning solvent.
They'll dismiss the defense explanation and be left with only the prosecution's. I think a better explanation should be found. I can't come up with one though. Sadly for them, it may be all they have.

Even sadder is the possibility that someone DID feel it was important to clean the trunk during that time with bleach and cleaning solvent and, in doing so, made chloroform.
That's the conclusion I would be afraid the jury would come to if I were the defense.

 

[Rumpole]

It would be a weak explanation if I were a juror.

The problem with that explanation is that the jury will see the pictures of the garbage and hear the "nose" witness testimony. They won't believe the atrocious state of the trunk was from that garbage. They won't believe that, in the midst of finding out Caylee is missing, CA, GA, or LA felt it important to clean that trunk with bleach and cleaning solvent.
They'll dismiss the defense explanation and be left with only the prosecution's. I think a better explanation should be found. I can't come up with one though. Sadly for them, it may be all they have.

Even sadder is the possibility that someone DID feel it was important to clean the trunk during that time with bleach and cleaning solvent and, in doing so, made chloroform.
That's the conclusion I would be afraid the jury would come to if I were the defense.

IMO the reality is that the "Raised levels" of chloroform were caused by decomposition alone! The conditions being more oxygen deprived than "normal".
Who knows what JB will come up with? Perhaps he will concede that Caylee's body did decompose in the trunk, but KC didn't put it there? Or KC did put dead Caylee in trunk, but did not kill her?

Obviously GACA did tidy up the trunk. They admit it. Took stuff out etc. I'd be surprised if they didn't make some attempt to clean the trunk. The stinky car was parked in, or near, a garage full of cleaning and laundry products. A LARGE bottle of bleach can be seen in photos (Don't ask me to find them, but I'll swear to it). Unless I was leaving things untouched for LE (Which they were not) I would have a splash around with anything available?