Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[BondJamesBond]

I have not noticed this discussed on the board, but the charge details in the criminal case docket filed on October 14 show an offense date of June 15, not June 16. AFAIK, this is what the prosecution originally filed. A post waaaaay back on Nov. 4 by tennisgirlsc asked specifically about this, but given that it was a pretty busy day for posting, her question seems to have been overlooked.

By October 14 when the charges were filed and the final arrest made, the investigation was 3 months old, lots of interviews had already taken place and the cell logs had been endlessly studied. So one would think the prosecution would record a date they had confidence in, right? :waitasec:

View attachment 4151

Just to note, the original charge on July 16 incorrectly listed the offense date as July 9 - they meant June 9, which is what they were led to believe at the time.

Could this have been because, despite GA's detailed description of seeing Caylee on June 16th, his credibility (as that of the other Anthony family) may be suspect or influenced by ulterior motives - so that LE made the prudent decision in October that, for all intents and purposes, the last actual date she was seen that was verifiable by an outside source was June 15th?

My initial thought is +1 to CecyBeans. After fam proved unreliable..."once bitten"...they went w/ the independently verifiable sources @ the nursing home.

That being said...JWG...you twisted my arm

If I was keeping count it'd be somewhere around theory#99, but, one could consider the following...

Going the simple route...

Sunday, 6/15/08

• Perhaps Cindy had Caylee in the pool when Casey got home 6/15 ~7:30PM. Cindy and Casey exchanged words.
• Cindy got out...too cold.
• Caylee protested. Cindy said, "I have work tomorrow...you need to watch Caylee" and went inside, eventually going to bed.
• Casey "watched Caylee" from the backyard/porch & texted away while Caylee played in the playhouse, etc.
• Ladder left on the pool...Caylee decided it was self-service & climbed in.
• Casey, lost :hypno: in her texting finally realized things were too quiet when ~9:30PM rolled around ...dark... self-servingly *thought* Caylee was maybe playing quietly in her playhouse.
• In the 39-minute period of inactivity Casey recovered Caylee's body from the pool and carried her to the sandbox area (away from G&C's bedroom window).
• Casey attempted to express water from Caylee's lungs...resulting water & decomp fluid left there for K9's to alert on later.
• Casey got duct tape from the shed to stem the water/fluid oozing from Caylee's lungs to enable her to be carried inside and placed in the bed overnight.
• Casey figured she had to last until morning when she could make a legit getaway. IOW...she couldn't suddenly disappear under the circumstances...+ in heavy-duty denial mode.
• Casey texted the night away with Tony to stay distracted.
• George arrived home from work late that night...none-the-wiser.

Accumulated Degree Day results w/ an 8:30PM 6/15 t.o.d. and in the trunk @ 4:20PM 6/16 w/ a 10% tolerance yields an earliest window for bagging as 6/18 3PM. Casey's 6/18 trip to G&C's...~2:30-3:45PM. Doable. Simple.

Cindy...realized sometime after 7/15 what prolly happened and invented the 'tucked them into bed' & 'breathing behind the door' stories as a desperate measure.

George...either realized after-the-fact he needed to place an alive-Caylee leaving w/ Casey when he was giving his statements...or...honestly mis-remembered and gave an account of an earlier day...e.g. 6/13 as has been suggested.

Now...plenty of holes to poke in this one IF it were true. Namely, why didn't Casey get outta the house w/ the body after Cindy left for work 6/16AM and before George woke up later in the morning? How could Casey get the body past George IF she left before him (methinks Casey was @ the house when George left 6/16 FWIW). Continuing down this line...perhaps Casey didn't flea immediately so she could collect her thoughts (although that shouldn't take long...10-minutes-worth-and-all ) Evidence suggests when Casey left 6/16PM that she wasn't planning to be gone for the 'long haul'.

So, in context, see theories 1-98 that typically involve t.o.d. AFTER Casey left G&C's 6/16...Just offering this one up FWIW...not trying to suggest it is THE one.

 

[KenoshaKid]

Casey got duct tape from the shed to stem the water/fluid oozing from Caylee's lungs to enable her to be carried inside and placed in the bed overnight.
[*]Casey figured she had to last until morning when she could make a legit getaway. IOW...she couldn't suddenly disappear under the circumstances...+ in heavy-duty denial mode.

<snipped for specificity>

Bond, I wonder tho if a dead Caylee had lain in the bed overnight, wouldn't there be enough of a decomp smell for dogs to hit on it? If the police suspected that, wouldn't they have taken the dogs in the house?

And conversely - a body less than an hour old on the ground - would it even have enough of a decomp smell for even a dog to detect?

Anyway, thanks for your insights, I enjoy them as always!

 

[MADJGNLAW]

My initial thought is +1 to CecyBeans. After fam proved unreliable..."once bitten"...they went w/ the independently verifiable sources @ the nursing home.

That being said...JWG...you twisted my arm

If I was keeping count it'd be somewhere around theory#99, but, one could consider the following...

Going the simple route...

Sunday, 6/15/08

• Perhaps Cindy had Caylee in the pool when Casey got home 6/15 ~7:30PM. Cindy and Casey exchanged words.
• Cindy got out...too cold.
• Caylee protested. Cindy said, "I have work tomorrow...you need to watch Caylee" and went inside, eventually going to bed.
• Casey "watched Caylee" from the backyard/porch & texted away while Caylee played in the playhouse, etc.
• Ladder left on the pool...Caylee decided it was self-service & climbed in.
• Casey, lost :hypno: in her texting finally realized things were too quiet when ~9:30PM rolled around ...dark... self-servingly *thought* Caylee was maybe playing quietly in her playhouse.
• In the 39-minute period of inactivity Casey recovered Caylee's body from the pool and carried her to the sandbox area (away from G&C's bedroom window).
• Casey attempted to express water from Caylee's lungs...resulting water & decomp fluid left there for K9's to alert on later.
• Casey got duct tape from the shed to stem the water/fluid oozing from Caylee's lungs to enable her to be carried inside and placed in the bed overnight.
• Casey figured she had to last until morning when she could make a legit getaway. IOW...she couldn't suddenly disappear under the circumstances...+ in heavy-duty denial mode.
• Casey texted the night away with Tony to stay distracted.
• George arrived home from work late that night...none-the-wiser.

Accumulated Degree Day results w/ an 8:30PM 6/15 t.o.d. and in the trunk @ 4:20PM 6/16 w/ a 10% tolerance yields an earliest window for bagging as 6/18 3PM. Casey's 6/18 trip to G&C's...~2:30-3:45PM. Doable. Simple.

Cindy...realized sometime after 7/15 what prolly happened and invented the 'tucked them into bed' & 'breathing behind the door' stories as a desperate measure.

George...either realized after-the-fact he needed to place an alive-Caylee leaving w/ Casey when he was giving his statements...or...honestly mis-remembered and gave an account of an earlier day...e.g. 6/13 as has been suggested.

Now...plenty of holes to poke in this one IF it were true. Namely, why didn't Casey get outta the house w/ the body after Cindy left for work 6/16AM and before George woke up later in the morning? How could Casey get the body past George IF she left before him (methinks Casey was @ the house when George left 6/16 FWIW). Continuing down this line...perhaps Casey didn't flea immediately so she could collect her thoughts (although that shouldn't take long...10-minutes-worth-and-all ) Evidence suggests when Casey left 6/16PM that she wasn't planning to be gone for the 'long haul'.

So, in context, see theories 1-98 that typically involve t.o.d. AFTER Casey left G&C's 6/16...Just offering this one up FWIW...not trying to suggest it is THE one.

This sounds like a great theory...I would only say that since the dogs did not hit in the home, maybe Casey left Caylee outside in her sandbox over night that is when she duct tape her mouth shut in case she did wake for what ever reason...

 

[BondJamesBond]

<snipped for specificity>
Bond, I wonder tho if a dead Caylee had lain in the bed overnight, wouldn't there be enough of a decomp smell for dogs to hit on it? If the police suspected that, wouldn't they have taken the dogs in the house?

And conversely - a body less than an hour old on the ground - would it even have enough of a decomp smell for even a dog to detect?

Anyway, thanks for your insights, I enjoy them as always!

Thanks, KK.

RE: In bed overnight. Makes sense to me there would be ample opportunity for add'l decomp there - only that application of duct-tape might've been somewhat effective @ stemming. Still...plenty of other avenues to impart stains w/o going into TMI. I believe the notion that K9's were taken inside the house has been discussed @ length in earlier threads. Some WS's thought a K9 alerted inside the house - AFAIK that was rumor. Someone can jump in on that point. FWIW, I'll add IIRC Cindy mentioned she continued to launder sheets long after 6/16. Since we've have the benefit of 12 months to think 'bout this stuff there are plenty of things I'd like to have requested...including K9 search inside G&C's and Lee's...but that's being King-for-a-day w/o any concern for the practicalities of reality I do know the CSI team went into the house with light-blocking mat'l for the windows...presumably they did field florescence testing FWIW.

RE: length of time req'd sufficient for K9 to alert to decomp. Studies vary. And I'll defer to some experts we have here on the forum regarding the capabilities of K9's. But, I've read examples of alerts as early as ~1hr from t.o.d. Conditions in this case vs. study conditions vary as you can imagine so...FWIW...it is within the realm of possibility IMHO.

This sounds like a great theory...I would only say that since the dogs did not hit in the home, maybe Casey left Caylee outside in her sandbox over night that is when she duct tape her mouth shut in case she did wake for what ever reason...

See above re: K9 alert IN the home. Still...IMHO, being left in the sandbox, etc. is as good a variation on the above as any. Call it "MADJGNLAW's 99a"

Also, FWIW, I think the folks that are heavily into the as-found-clothing being indicative of a bed-ready...or sleeping/napping Caylee @ t.o.d. would jump all over no-shoes and clothing being different than nursing home outfit...e.g. post-swim & playing before bedtime aspect of this theory.

 

[~ Amy ~]

The heart shaped sticker has influenced me to think Caylee was alive when the duct tape was applied on her mouth. I think the duct tape was put on Caylee's mouth to hush her , and the sticker was added in one of KC's sick mind twisted ways to comfort Caylee while her mouth was taped up. I think KC was in a deep convo with Tony and pretending to be at work. She always had to make up a dramatic lie when she couldn't or didn't want to go somewhere. Example : GA having a stroke to get out of going to J-ville w/ Amy. Tony may have asked her before she left his apt. to stay the night on June 15th , and after arriving at the A's , she knew that was going to be impossible , so she opted out w/ a lie telling Tony that she was called into work . I think the tape was applied to Caylee's mouth , so Tony wouldn't hear her over the phone . The sticker was applied in some sick KC way to comfort Caylee , and allow KC to gab w/ Tony. I think KC got so deep in convo with Tony that she forgot about the only worthy person in her life. Her darling baby!! I think she ended the convo on the phone w/ Tony that night/early am and went right on to sleep , forgetting precious Caylee. I sometimes wonder if little Caylee was put in KC's closet that night , duct taped up , so KC could SELFISHLY chat it up w/ Tony and have no distractions. I think in KC's world she lives by the motto "out of sight, out of mind". I think it ALL happened in the A's home late 6/15 early am 6/16. JMO

 

[sadyjade]

Wow, Amy ... sure did paint a picture for my mind. Totally possible ... sadly *sigh*

 

[KenoshaKid]

Bond - regarding decomp stains (geesh, this is ghoulish) - I don't think you'd have decomp fluids in a "fresh" corpse, would you? Doesn't that take a couple of days to come about?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond - regarding decomp stains (geesh, this is ghoulish) - I don't think you'd have decomp fluids in a "fresh" corpse, would you? Doesn't that take a couple of days to come about?

Depending on how far you wanna go...may wanna take it up on the Forensics thread. Short answer is that decomp starts immediately.

 

[watchinginky]

Depending on how far you wanna go...may wanna take it up on the Forensics thread. Short answer is that decomp starts immediately.

And....if she was left outside in the sandbox on a warm summer night, this would definitely help speed up the process. If she was left outside all night, more than likely she would be out there a good part of the day on the 16th as well. KC would have to make sure no one was home in order to move Caylee into the house. Wouldn't want to take a chance on getting caught! By this time, there COULD be a bit fluids starting to leak.

JMO

 

[Reznor]

I think the duct tape was the murder weapon. KC covered her mouth and nose. KC put her in the sand box until she figured out what to do with Caylee. Got the shovel from the neighbor. Tried burying Caylee in the back yard. Could not accomplish this and put her in the trunk of the car. Drove around with her in the car until she tossed her in the wooded lot.

She placed the sticker on the duct tape after she was dead. KC stuffed her in the bags and never looked at her again.

 

[countzero]

My initial thought is +1 to CecyBeans. After fam proved unreliable..."once bitten"...they went w/ the independently verifiable sources @ the nursing home.

That being said...JWG...you twisted my arm

If I was keeping count it'd be somewhere around theory#99, but, one could consider the following...

Going the simple route...

Sunday, 6/15/08

• Perhaps Cindy had Caylee in the pool when Casey got home 6/15 ~7:30PM. Cindy and Casey exchanged words.
• Cindy got out...too cold.
• Caylee protested. Cindy said, "I have work tomorrow...you need to watch Caylee" and went inside, eventually going to bed.
• Casey "watched Caylee" from the backyard/porch & texted away while Caylee played in the playhouse, etc.
• Ladder left on the pool...Caylee decided it was self-service & climbed in.
• Casey, lost :hypno: in her texting finally realized things were too quiet when ~9:30PM rolled around ...dark... self-servingly *thought* Caylee was maybe playing quietly in her playhouse.
• In the 39-minute period of inactivity Casey recovered Caylee's body from the pool and carried her to the sandbox area (away from G&C's bedroom window).
• Casey attempted to express water from Caylee's lungs...resulting water & decomp fluid left there for K9's to alert on later.
• Casey got duct tape from the shed to stem the water/fluid oozing from Caylee's lungs to enable her to be carried inside and placed in the bed overnight.
• Casey figured she had to last until morning when she could make a legit getaway. IOW...she couldn't suddenly disappear under the circumstances...+ in heavy-duty denial mode.
• Casey texted the night away with Tony to stay distracted.
• George arrived home from work late that night...none-the-wiser.

Accumulated Degree Day results w/ an 8:30PM 6/15 t.o.d. and in the trunk @ 4:20PM 6/16 w/ a 10% tolerance yields an earliest window for bagging as 6/18 3PM. Casey's 6/18 trip to G&C's...~2:30-3:45PM. Doable. Simple.

Cindy...realized sometime after 7/15 what prolly happened and invented the 'tucked them into bed' & 'breathing behind the door' stories as a desperate measure.

George...either realized after-the-fact he needed to place an alive-Caylee leaving w/ Casey when he was giving his statements...or...honestly mis-remembered and gave an account of an earlier day...e.g. 6/13 as has been suggested.

Now...plenty of holes to poke in this one IF it were true. Namely, why didn't Casey get outta the house w/ the body after Cindy left for work 6/16AM and before George woke up later in the morning? How could Casey get the body past George IF she left before him (methinks Casey was @ the house when George left 6/16 FWIW). Continuing down this line...perhaps Casey didn't flea immediately so she could collect her thoughts (although that shouldn't take long...10-minutes-worth-and-all ) Evidence suggests when Casey left 6/16PM that she wasn't planning to be gone for the 'long haul'.

So, in context, see theories 1-98 that typically involve t.o.d. AFTER Casey left G&C's 6/16...Just offering this one up FWIW...not trying to suggest it is THE one.

Hi BJB, I have had a similar theories since July 17, 08 as well. Although they have been subject to change(s) when new evidence appear(s), they haven't altered in thought patterns much.

I haven't a clue how to link a post I made so I just brought it here from yesterday. Sorry it's long but let me know how my theories fit with yours. Now keep in mind I have read all the pings charts, text msgs and phone call logs and haven't gone as far as you and JWG have in written form. You people work wonders with your keyboards to put a lot into perspective.

I have kept quiet and not posted today out of respect for Caylee and other activities going on in our home. After reading the threads and actually watching the interviews I had to throw my :twocents: in the pot since my bank account is down to one dollar.

I have thought and posted for months that JB and crew are gearing up the bus to take any and all other A clan members in the wake. With GA's newest spin on June 16, 08 I am more than convinced the keys are in the ignition now.

My scenario is that an argument occurred on/about June 9. After CA returned on June 15 she steamed about the money KC stole from her parents. KC strolls in and the stares and glares start. Caylee is still up. Sometime during the evening after Caylee is put to bed KC comes from the bedroom and CA confronts her about the stolen funds. More arguing. More shouting. Neither CA nor KC realizes that Caylee has been woken from hearing the shouting. The A house is small, sounds travel. What happens next only CA and KC know but in the heat of this now physical battle Caylee appears. She could be crying, shouting but clearly she is upset seeing and hearing both CA and KC going at each other. Although it isn't new to her, she can probably feel and understand this fight is different between CA and KC.

Again, only CA and KC know exactly what happened but Caylee has been hurt. I am not going to guess when she passed but I think she passed during the night hours. She could have been knocked down accidently or she could have been pushed against the wall, knocked against a piece of furniture. Enough of an injury occurred where she either passed immediately or soon afterwards.

GA comes home. Early morning hours either before CA leaves for work or shortly after, Caylee is discovered, not breathing. GA thinks he knows what to do and a coverup plan is started. GA did see Caylee, just not a live one on the morning of June 16, 08. KC is given directions to follow or she fabricates another lie. But all the A clan know Caylee is gone. The mission now is to save KC from herself; blame the nanny, JG, AH and anyone else they can think of.

Then off to her new life. KC's friends would think Caylee was with CA/GA since none of them actually knew CA/GA personally. CA/GA would tell those who asked, Caylee was with KC now. Who would actually be the wiser. Who would actually seriously ask. KC could tell her friends who knew about Caylee that she gave custody to CA/GA. Who would care.

The car was the problem. KC didn't think it would be but good ol' GA certainly did after he arrived at the tow yard. Cover up story had to be changed again. And again. And again.

Caylee was murdered. All three of them contributed, participated in it and the cover up. They are all guilty directly by associated. I just hope and pray the state is still "investigating" the pieces of forensic evidence that without a shadow of doubt nails KC and CA/GA are arrested, tried and convicted of accessory in the murder of Caylee. Remember, LE does not have to turn over any forensic evidence to the SA to give to JB while that evidence is still being investigated.

JB and crew have the perfect scenario to give to the jury. All three, CA/GA/KC were involved but who actually committed the murder or the injury that led to Caylee passing? The decomp became an issue when KC didn't do what GA/CA told her to do. The duct tape, again because KC didn't do what she should have. The heart, because KC wanted Caylee to know CA couldn't hurt her any more.

CA/GA can keep going on doing all the media grandstanding they want because each time they do, they get closer and closer to being mates with KC.

And if by chance CA/GA are not implicated nor prosecuted in this case, well let them live til they are each 101. They will be the most loneliness people on this earth, hollow on the insides, reliving each and every moment of their failures. Silently because neither can admit to anyone, let alone themselves, what sad individuals they are to have let Caylee pass while in their care.

Sorry, that was more than :twocents: worth. Off my soapbox now.

 

[Devon]

After reading the autopsy report and final FBI results on the car trunk, I am still inclined to think that Caylee drowned. IMO, the facts that support this theory are:

1)The high levels of chloroform found in the trunk. I think it possible that this was the result of early stage decomposition in very oxygen-deprived conditions (enclosed car trunk plus trash bags) combined with ingestion of, and saturation in, chlorinated water.

2)The hair mat. This may have been the result of wet, chlorine soaked hair drying in a clump under the skull after the body was wrapped and laid down in the trunk.

3)No shoes found in the car or with the body.

4)The T shirt. This appears to have completely rotted away, except for some 'stitching' and a label. Some fragments of a 'light coloured' fabric were found adhered to the shoulder blade and arm bone. I think it possible that a chlorine soaked pink cotton T shirt might well fade to a 'light' colour, stick to and remain present in some form on areas of the body that are pressing down/lying on it (shoulder/upper arm), but completely disintegrate otherwise. The lettering may have survived because it was a different and tougher fabric weave/structure. Chlorinated water rots fabrics - Fact. (Just see what happens to your swimwear if you don't ever rinse the chlorine out!).

5)The trunk bones and upper leg bones being in a different location from the shorts. This suggests to me that the shorts were not on the body, otherwise I think it more probable that they would have been dragged to the same location with these body parts. The report suggests that this movement by animal activity must have occurred when there was sufficient soft tissue present to hold the trunk and upper limbs together, so it's reasonable to assume that if the shorts were on the body they would have been moved with it.

6)The fatty acids found on the paper towels. These acids appear not to be from the 'decomp fluid' that caused the stain on the trunk carpet, so it's likely that the towels were not used to try and clean that up. The acids are from body fat and suggest the presence of adipocere (grave wax). This substance is normally present in bodies that have either been buried in cool soil or kept in wet or moist conditions. Apparently bodies kept in plastic bags may be more prone to the formation of this substance, but I have seen another article that suggests that it doesn't appear in very warm conditions, so it's possible that although the bags kept the body warm (so limiting formation) the contents of the bag were wet (so creating the conditions for formation).

A question for me now is when did these paper towels come into contact with the body fats? If the body was wrapped almost immediately and not touched thereafter, how did the adipocere get on the towels. It's possible that KC used the towels to handle/move the body at some stage either before or after it was initially wrapped in plastic, because she noticed the skin change and didn't want to touch it.

A final thought &#8211; adipocere forms mostly on the fatty parts of the body &#8211; including the cheeks. Is this why the multi-layered tape was wrapped over that area?

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/adipocere

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere[/ame]

 

[Reznor]

After reading the autopsy report and final FBI results on the car trunk, I am still inclined to think that Caylee drowned. IMO, the facts that support this theory are:

1)The high levels of chloroform found in the trunk. I think it possible that this was the result of early stage decomposition in very oxygen-deprived conditions (enclosed car trunk plus trash bags) combined with ingestion of, and saturation in, chlorinated water.

2)The hair mat. This may have been the result of wet, chlorine soaked hair drying in a clump under the skull after the body was wrapped and laid down in the trunk.

3)No shoes found in the car or with the body.

4)The T shirt. This appears to have completely rotted away, except for some 'stitching' and a label. Some fragments of a 'light coloured' fabric were found adhered to the shoulder blade and arm bone. I think it possible that a chlorine soaked pink cotton T shirt might well fade to a 'light' colour, stick to and remain present in some form on areas of the body that are pressing down/lying on it (shoulder/upper arm), but completely disintegrate otherwise. The lettering may have survived because it was a different and tougher fabric weave/structure. Chlorinated water rots fabrics - Fact. (Just see what happens to your swimwear if you don't ever rinse the chlorine out!).

5)The trunk bones and upper leg bones being in a different location from the shorts. This suggests to me that the shorts were not on the body, otherwise I think it more probable that they would have been dragged to the same location with these body parts. The report suggests that this movement by animal activity must have occurred when there was sufficient soft tissue present to hold the trunk and upper limbs together, so it's reasonable to assume that if the shorts were on the body they would have been moved with it.

6)The fatty acids found on the paper towels. These acids appear not to be from the 'decomp fluid' that caused the stain on the trunk carpet, so it's likely that the towels were not used to try and clean that up. The acids are from body fat and suggest the presence of adipocere (grave wax). This substance is normally present in bodies that have either been buried in cool soil or kept in wet or moist conditions. Apparently bodies kept in plastic bags may be more prone to the formation of this substance, but I have seen another article that suggests that it doesn't appear in very warm conditions, so it's possible that although the bags kept the body warm (so limiting formation) the contents of the bag were wet (so creating the conditions for formation).

A question for me now is when did these paper towels come into contact with the body fats? If the body was wrapped almost immediately and not touched thereafter, how did the adipocere get on the towels. It's possible that KC used the towels to handle/move the body at some stage either before or after it was initially wrapped in plastic, because she noticed the skin change and didn't want to touch it.

A final thought &#8211; adipocere forms mostly on the fatty parts of the body &#8211; including the cheeks. Is this why the multi-layered tape was wrapped over that area?

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/adipocere

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere

Maybe she murdered her while she was sleeping? Maybe she slept in a t-shirt and pull up.


The towels you questioned. IMO the body was moved three times. 1) From the bedroom to the back yard. 2) Back yard to the car. 3) Car to wooded lot. Back yard to the car was probably when the towels got their stain of decomp.

 

[doobiedoo52]

Forbes et al . (2005 a, b, c) conducted an extensive series of experiments on the
physical and chemical factors promoting the formation of adipocere. They found
that adipocere would form in soil types ranging from sandy to clayey, provided that
the soils were kept moist, and also in sterile soil that was heated at 200 ° C for 12
hours to remove the normal soil microbial fl ora. &#8216; Bodies &#8217; buried directly in the
ground tended to form adipocere more rapidly than those contained in a coffi n.
Interestingly, placing the &#8216; body &#8217; in a plastic bag retarded the formation of adipocere
but if the &#8216; body &#8217; was clothed and then placed in the plastic bag adipocere formation
was promoted. They suggested that this was owing to the clothing absorbing glycerol
and other decay products that would otherwise inhibit the pathways through
with adipocere is formed. Polyester clothing was deemed to be the most effective,
probably as a consequence of its ability to retain water and, compared to cotton
clothing, resistance to decay.

Thought this might be of interest

Also, this:
(Ref. 6 at p. 93). The adipocere is admixed with the mummified remains of
muscles, fibrous tissues and nerves. The final product is of a larger bulk than the
original fat with the result that external wounds may become closed and the
pattern of clothing or ligatures may be imprinted on the body surface.

Wasn't there something about a fabric imprint on the shoulder bone, or did I read that wrong?

 

[Devon]

Maybe she murdered her while she was sleeping? Maybe she slept in a t-shirt and pull up.


The towels you questioned. IMO the body was moved three times. 1) From the bedroom to the back yard. 2) Back yard to the car. 3) Car to wooded lot. Back yard to the car was probably when the towels got their stain of decomp.

Yes - she could have died in any number of ways wearing only her T shirt and pull-ups.

It's the presence of adipocere on the paper towels that raises questions for me. The formation of this seems to require a certain set of conditions, such as burial in cool soil or immersion in water. The articles that I've read suggest that it does not normally appear in warm conditions, and there needs to be a sufficient presence of water plus anaerobic decomposition. If the towels got stained with this substance through transfer between yard and car then I would think the body would need to have already been bagged and in cool conditions for a couple of days for this to have started forming.

There doesn't appear to have been any evidence of burial in the yard and IMO it's unlikely that KC would have left the bagged body in the playhouse or sandbox for a couple of days with the risk of discovery. Also if she had, the bagged body would have got very warm during the day times, and the adipocere would likely not have formed. Either way, she wouldn't have needed paper towels to carry a bagged body so she must have unwrapped it again for some reason. All very puzzling! :waitasec:

 

[Searchfortruth]

I would really like to see more theories after yesterday's autopsy release. I would like to know if it changed many WS'ers minds as to what happened to Caylee.

I haven't been too solid on any real theories. The chloroform was a huge question mark for me and I never knew which way to go with it. The duct tape was a question for me too, before yesterday. After learning about the "multiple" layers of tape covering both mouth and nose I am leaning towards it possibly being the cause of death. Would really like to see other's opinions now that we have more information !

 

[2goldfish]

I know some posters think GA and CA helped, or at least had knowledge, and I have to say listen to Cindy's 911 call - it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car

I might have suspected them all if not for this, her panic was very real and had she been involved she never would have done that - and I bet KC would never take the fall for her either. GA? ok, we have no panicky calls to LE from him but he was the only one LE thought could help with the GJ and while we will never know what was said, she was charged with this crime. I dont think that would have happened either if GA had known. I dont think he would have had to stop and vomit while interviewing with LE. yeah maybe his conscience but I dont think so. I think he was devastated, for real.

 

[Reznor]

Yes - she could have died in any number of ways wearing only her T shirt and pull-ups.

It's the presence of adipocere on the paper towels that raises questions for me. The formation of this seems to require a certain set of conditions, such as burial in cool soil or immersion in water. The articles that I've read suggest that it does not normally appear in warm conditions, and there needs to be a sufficient presence of water plus anaerobic decomposition. If the towels got stained with this substance through transfer between yard and car then I would think the body would need to have already been bagged and in cool conditions for a couple of days for this to have started forming.

There doesn't appear to have been any evidence of burial in the yard and IMO it's unlikely that KC would have left the bagged body in the playhouse or sandbox for a couple of days with the risk of discovery. Also if she had, the bagged body would have got very warm during the day times, and the adipocere would likely not have formed. Either way, she wouldn't have needed paper towels to carry a bagged body so she must have unwrapped it again for some reason. All very puzzling! :waitasec:

I will have to do some reading on adipocere decomp. Very interesting.

I didn't think she unwrapped Caylee who was already bagged. I do believe she had no idea what happened to a dead body in just a short time. Even if she put a twisty on the bags they are still capable of leaking. 30lbs of a decomposing child would be something messy to deal with.

When this story first came to light I thought it was an accident.

She borrowed a shovel. What was the shovel for?

 

[WillenFan21]

that adipocere would form in soil types ranging from sandy to clayey, provided that

Traces of decomp was found in the sandbox. If she burried Caylee in the sandbox for a little bit could that be why there was adipocere?

 

[Theonly1]

Perhaps adipocere could have been formed due to the bag being partially buried underwater in a marshy area for a period of time. Remember there was a hurricane and the body was in a low land area.

However, regarding adipocere on the paper towels, if the paper towels were collected from Casey's TRUNK then the adipocere would logically have formed before Caylee was dumped at Suburban.