Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[Tulessa]

For a second I thought that as well, it sounds like Casey. However, her lack of grief over the death of her daughter points in another direction. If it were an accident, she would have been consumed with guilt and grief. (If she was a normal person, that is.) I think back to the earliest jail tape, how all she wanted was to talk to TL, and was indignant that "All they want is to find Caylee, that's all they care about." Something really messed up about that...

Plus, she would have wanted the body to be found, as it would have (in her mind) strengthened her kidnapping-gone-bad theory, but she was, apparently, horrified when Caylee's body was found. But, if the defense is smart, they'll go in that direction. It's really the only thing that goes against motive and may have a glimmer of a chance of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. "Hey, she screwed up after the accidental death, made a bad decision, but she didn't kill her daughter." It's all they've got in the way of a defense, imo. The way they are going now they are going to get her the death penalty. Just my 2 cents, of course. :crazy:

The lack of grief is MAJOR and very telling......

 

[affinity]

Does anyone still believe the death itself may have been an accident (overmedicating??) and the duct tape placed later to make it *look* like a kidnapping gone wrong? I think Casey might really have thought life was like a movie, she could make up these great stories, the kid would be found later as a skeleton, duct taped, which fits nicely into a kidnapping plot, no suspects ever found...and Casey is a grieving mother, supported by everyone in her community and family as such.

This is what has always made the most sense to me, because of the "flurry" of phone calls.

Much as I hate to admit it....as a young person (and even to some extent now) I share some of KC's worst personality traits. I believe both KC and I developed as we did because of neglect. (No excuses whatsoever for KC, however, I have been interested in learning why I was desperate for attention especially as a young person...the answer is a lack of bonding with my parents). And before you say that's hooey, understand that even primates need love and attention or they will be "damaged".

One of the reasons I believe BD1's theory to be accurate is because my best friend was injured at an event when I was young. I was the first person to come upon her and (inexplicably) I couldn't "do" anything about the situation. I know--It sounds nuts, but I went into a very strange (un-explainable) place where I did NOTHING (I let someone else find her!) I have often thought back to that event and wondered what was wrong with me, that I had such an inappropriate response. Now, granted, I did not "duct tape" my friend...but, if the accident had been my fault (which thankfully it wasn't) I might have done something crazy to try to take the fault away from me. If KC did as BD1 suggests, she was in that same place I was when I discovered my friend. There is no excuse whatsoever for not doing the right thing...but I am simply trying to share this odd space where sometimes people do the complete opposite of what is decent and normal. I have first hand experience.

Once my friend "S" confided in me that a baby fell into the pool next to her (at the city pool)...instead of doing what was correct she simply stood there and watched the baby descend the pool depths! Fortunately someone else dove in and got the baby....but "S" didn't do anything! The big difference in these stories, of course, is the lack of duct tape! My friend didn't die when she fell down the stairs, I didn't duct tape her (to further hide my guilt) and I didn't get mixed up with a ambitious notoriety-seeking lawyer. You could all be writing about me today, because I was as dead inside as KC at her age..and I know this whole thing could have happened to me. Just sayin.

 

[Tulessa]

affinity thanks for sharing that..... That broke my heart reading it.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I don't think it was out of spite. The reason I think it was an accident is the flurry of calls to CA and GA's (I believe) cell phone that were pinged. I think she drowned in the pool and ICA thought she had to cover it up. Honestly, after CA didn't pick up her phone, I think ICA panicked and decided to go with the kidnapper story. CA had admonished her before about her care of Caylee, and her selfishness.
I would love to know if she was on the computer before all of those calls were made.

Of course, if she wasn't on the computer/her phone etc., then I would agree she killed Caylee to get back at her mother for the fight the night before.

The ladder being in the pool gives me shudders, and I think CA was honest when she made that point about the ladder being moved. I think at that moment she was trying to put the pieces together.

I don't think in ICA's mind that she could say Caylee died in an accident (even if she did), because then all of the character traits that ICA had according to her mother (immature, lazy, selfish, not a good mother) would all be TRUE. And THAT would be more devastating to ICA. Nope she couldn't have CA be "right" again. So I think she came up with the story of the imaginanny to protect herself from CA's wrath. If you look at her statements to friends, etc. she said things like "I am the worst mother for trusting my daughter with Zanny". So she isn't the worst mother because of a BAD character trait (selfish, leaves her child unsupervised while she does her "thang"), but rather a bad mother because of a GOOD character trait ("trusting").

That is just my opinion, I've swayed back and forth on what I think happened to Caylee.

But this 'nanny' was developed when the Grunds didn't want their younger son to babysit Caylee anymore, since they found out, ICA wasn't working. How old was Caylee then, 6 months old???

I still go back to this alleged physical altercation that CA is adamant didn't happen...I believe it did and that is what put ICA in a rage and took it out on Caylee...I dont' believe she slept at Hopespring dr that night, nor do I believe GA saw them the next morning, fed Caylee breakfast and placed her in her car seat..

By the time ICA met up with TonyL, I believe Caylee was already deceased. One thing I'm not sure of is if she slept over TonyL's that night. IF she did, she overslept and Caylee was in that trunk...perhaps she went back home, and the pool story developed in her mind...which is that flurry of calls..when her folks didn't answer, she went into overdrive and the nanny did it...then she had to cover for herself...JMHO

When CA approaced ICA about Caylee drowning in the pool, ICA answered with "surprise, surpise", leads me to believe it was staged by ICA...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Novice Seeker]

My hypothesis for what it's worth.

The spark that lit the fuse was the visit Cindy had with her parents. But it wasn't because Cindy was angry at Casey for stealing. IMO Cindy had been called on the carpet on her responsibilities as Casey's mother. For instance, "this has got to stop", "What are you going to do about this" "If you had disciplined Casey when she was younger...." "If you won't do something then I will", hence the bank stepping in.

Cindy comes home and the explosion takes place. The topic could have been related to Casey making her mom look bad when Casey stole from her grandparents, Casey had plans for the night which didn't include being mommie dearest. I'm just not convinced the argument was because Cindy was fed up with Casey's stealing. Why? because of how Cindy reacted to the counselors opinion. Cindy could not grasp the concept of treating her child like an adult.

As to when Casey stormed out of the house, it could have been that night or the next morning. What I do suspect is that Georges' accounting of events the next day are false, incorrect, down right lies. IMO(of Course)

George leaves the home and then Casey buries Casey in the back yard. Hence the hits by the cadaver dogs. This gives Casey some time to come up with a plan which might explain the internet searches. However, Casey realizes she needs to move Casey from the backyard because George and Cindy have taken an interest in yard work.

Perhaps after the shed had been broken in to previously and the gas cans had been taken, George found out it was Casey who had broken in to it, George fixes the shed so that Casey can't break in to it again thus Casey borrows the neighbors shovel. I suspect that the outline found in the trunk occured when Casey transfered Caylee from the backyard to her car.

Casey drives over to where she has buried her pets at. However, Casey didn't realize that she needed a tool to dig a grave so she made do which would explain the shallow grave. Thankfully it was a shallow grave because it allowed for little Caylee's body to be discovered and strengthen the case for justice she so deserves.

This is just a broad framework of the sequence of events that took place in my personal opinion.

Novice Seeker

 

[ZsaZsa]

For those who think the 'flurry of phone calls' demonstrated that ICA was calling for help, in panic mode, take a look at AZ Lawyer's comments on the ask a lawyer thread. Per ICA's phone records this flurry activity was very typical of ICA's call pattern, daily.
This murder was all about hatred and contempt for her mother IMO. She exacted a final revenge, then knowing she would ultimately be caught, she lived it up.

 

[angeldust]

i posted about this last night and the post was deleted ...... anyhoo maybe posted in the wrong thread

imo the calls on the 16th were casey trying to find out where her family were before she moved caylee just checking that no one was going to stumble in on her unexpectantly and the flurry of phone call later were to check that her parents hadnt noticed anything amiss when they re were no demands made on her she forgot all about caylee until the squirrel started to smell then
plan b dump the car with purse hoping it would be stolen ta dah .....kidnapping

 

[ynotdivein]

affinity, thank you for your honesty... It's hard to remember through all this that somewhere inside KC is an actual human being; your story helped remind me of that. Maybe GA was telling the truth when he said to River that it was an accident that "snowballed out of control."

I understand that speculation isn't "sleuthing" but so many of us have this need to try and comprehend what on earth was going through KC's mind. In the spirit of speculation, I present my Theory #834:

KC and Caylee are alone in the house. KC wants to go out that night; she has in the past dropped Caylee off at CA's work before closing so that CA could watch her while KC "worked" (as AZ mentioned, this late-afternoon flurry of calls was not a unique event)...

Caylee wants attention. She's hungry, or she wants to go outside and play, or she's just having a cranky day and she doesn't want to sit still and watch another DVD, she wants some attention from her mother. KC is having a cranky day because she's trying to be totally engrossed in her flirtations and her own life and she's frustrated that she may be stuck home with the "little snothead" another night, missing out on another date with TonE, their romance is in jeopardy and the brat won't shut up and her g****mn parents are punishing her by not picking up the phone and the clock is ticking what if TonE starts seeing someone else who doesn't have a kid to take care of and this is all just so unfair so WRONG and Caylee won't leave her alone she's tugging on her and whining and there's no one to help her or take the kid off her hands and if that kid won't shut up and QUIT TOUCHING STUFF she's going to lose her mind and how about a little duct tape to teach you to keep your d*** hands to yourself you little... and now Caylee's screaming and KC knows she's going to tell about this just like she ratted her out about everything else and you know what you little tattletale how about some over your mouth too...

...and then finally Caylee's quiet. And KC has turned a corner. She can't come back home, and she has a disposal problem on her hands, but she and TonE can share a nice evening, and she'll work all the other stuff out later.

 

[Solace]

My hypothesis for what it's worth.

The spark that lit the fuse was the visit Cindy had with her parents. But it wasn't because Cindy was angry at Casey for stealing. IMO Cindy had been called on the carpet on her responsibilities as Casey's mother. For instance, "this has got to stop", "What are you going to do about this" "If you had disciplined Casey when she was younger...." "If you won't do something then I will", hence the bank stepping in.

Cindy comes home and the explosion takes place. The topic could have been related to Casey making her mom look bad when Casey stole from her grandparents, Casey had plans for the night which didn't include being mommie dearest. I'm just not convinced the argument was because Cindy was fed up with Casey's stealing. Why? because of how Cindy reacted to the counselors opinion. Cindy could not grasp the concept of treating her child like an adult.

As to when Casey stormed out of the house, it could have been that night or the next morning. What I do suspect is that Georges' accounting of events the next day are false, incorrect, down right lies. IMO(of Course)

George leaves the home and then Casey buries Casey in the back yard. Hence the hits by the cadaver dogs. This gives Casey some time to come up with a plan which might explain the internet searches. However, Casey realizes she needs to move Casey from the backyard because George and Cindy have taken an interest in yard work.

Perhaps after the shed had been broken in to previously and the gas cans had been taken, George found out it was Casey who had broken in to it, George fixes the shed so that Casey can't break in to it again thus Casey borrows the neighbors shovel. I suspect that the outline found in the trunk occured when Casey transfered Caylee from the backyard to her car.

Casey drives over to where she has buried her pets at. However, Casey didn't realize that she needed a tool to dig a grave so she made do which would explain the shallow grave. Thankfully it was a shallow grave because it allowed for little Caylee's body to be discovered and strengthen the case for justice she so deserves.

This is just a broad framework of the sequence of events that took place in my personal opinion.

Novice Seeker

I don't think Caylee was ever in the back yard. I believe she was dead in the trunk and that is where she stayed until the odor was too much.

However, the cadaver dogs did hit; I think when the odor got omnipresent, KC brought Caylee back home (backed in to the house) borrowed a shovel and leaving Caylee in the trunk, she went and scouted the back yard and brought the odor with her to the area where the house was, etc. Remember that the odor is bad at this point when KC decides to "dump" her. Caylee had been in the trunk; had gotten the garbage bag and put the body in it and inside a laundry bag. So she had the smell of decomposition on herself. It is potent and lasts forever.

 

[Intermezzo]

I don't think it was out of spite. The reason I think it was an accident is the flurry of calls to CA and GA's (I believe) cell phone that were pinged. I think she drowned in the pool and ICA thought she had to cover it up. Honestly, after CA didn't pick up her phone, I think ICA panicked and decided to go with the kidnapper story. CA had admonished her before about her care of Caylee, and her selfishness.
I would love to know if she was on the computer before all of those calls were made.

Of course, if she wasn't on the computer/her phone etc., then I would agree she killed Caylee to get back at her mother for the fight the night before.

The ladder being in the pool gives me shudders, and I think CA was honest when she made that point about the ladder being moved. I think at that moment she was trying to put the pieces together.

I don't think in ICA's mind that she could say Caylee died in an accident (even if she did), because then all of the character traits that ICA had according to her mother (immature, lazy, selfish, not a good mother) would all be TRUE. And THAT would be more devastating to ICA. Nope she couldn't have CA be "right" again. So I think she came up with the story of the imaginanny to protect herself from CA's wrath. If you look at her statements to friends, etc. she said things like "I am the worst mother for trusting my daughter with Zanny". So she isn't the worst mother because of a BAD character trait (selfish, leaves her child unsupervised while she does her "thang"), but rather a bad mother because of a GOOD character trait ("trusting").

That is just my opinion, I've swayed back and forth on what I think happened to Caylee.

Accident..I thought so once..but the pool ladder could have been part of a cover up too.

Accident...Casey knew enough to call 911
She didn't have any problem calling 911 when some aggressive protesters were outside the A home confronting her mother and father.

:twocents:

 

[Intermezzo]

For those who think the 'flurry of phone calls' demonstrated that ICA was calling for help, in panic mode, take a look at AZ Lawyer's comments on the ask a lawyer thread. Per ICA's phone records this flurry activity was very typical of ICA's call pattern, daily.
This murder was all about hatred and contempt for her mother IMO. She exacted a final revenge, then knowing she would ultimately be caught, she lived it up.

I agree ZsaZsa
We have threads in the Resource forum threads about this..
Casey had in the past dropped Caylee off to Cindy at Gentiva before Cindy finished work because Casey needed a babysitter so she could go to "work".but it just so happened Cindy did not answer Casey's phonecalls on June 16

 

[Novice Seeker]

I don't think Caylee was ever in the back yard. I believe she was dead in the trunk and that is where she stayed until the odor was too much.

However, the cadaver dogs did hit; I think when the odor got omnipresent, KC brought Caylee back home (backed in to the house) borrowed a shovel and leaving Caylee in the trunk, she went and scouted the back yard and brought the odor with her to the area where the house was, etc. Remember that the odor is bad at this point when KC decides to "dump" her. Caylee had been in the trunk; had gotten the garbage bag and put the body in it and inside a laundry bag. So she had the smell of decomposition on herself. It is potent and lasts forever.

I can see that happening. A few questions with this theory. For the sake of argument, George, although I don't believe he was completely truthful IMO, most likely did see Caylee Monday morning. So there is an amount of time which would have given Casey time to cool down from the blow-out possibly? VS. IMO Casey murdered Caylee in a spur of the moment where she is :furious: and only after decided on how she was going to clean up this mess. I'm still not convinced there was ever any odor in Casey's car prior to killing Caylee. My thought is that she made up that story to explain the odor that remained after she put Caylee in the car to go bury her.

I'll have to go back and read up on the cadaver dog hits and the locations they hit on but IIRC one area was around the sandbox. Would a cadaver dog hit on a general smell rather than it's source? IDK Did the dogs track to the garage? That would be interesting.

The shovel. Hmm... could be because it came up clean for any forensics. And, the neighbor didn't see Casey leave while she had the shovel. I just can't picture Casey borrowing that shovel unless she had a specific reason. What would be interesting to know is Casey's physical appearance when she returned the shovel.


Novice Seeker

 

[Novice Seeker]

Accident..I thought so once..but the pool ladder could have been part of a cover up too.

Accident...Casey knew enough to call 911
She didn't have any problem calling 911 when some aggressive protesters were outside the A home confronting her mother and father.

:twocents:

And a perfect opportunity to manipulate it for the attention she would have received as the poor mommy who has just suffered that tragedy that all of us mothers fear.


Novice Seeker

 

[beach]

I respect and appreciate the most recent accident theory posts. Thought-provoking and good points made.


I will never be able to connect the dots between "accident" and the Bella Vita tattoo. A beautiful life? Huh?

 

[AZlawyer]

I respect and appreciate the most recent accident theory posts. Thought-provoking and good points made.


I will never be able to connect the dots between "accident" and the Bella Vita tattoo. A beautiful life? Huh?

It was a "memorial," 'Beach! She was SO SAD, you see, but had to cover it up so her parents wouldn't have to endure the grief, so her memorial had to be in a private place. The message was not "my life is beautiful," but rather, "Caylee's life was beautiful." As Mother of the Year, she smiled through the pain....

 

[beach]

It was a "memorial," 'Beach! She was SO SAD, you see, but had to cover it up so her parents wouldn't have to endure the grief, so her memorial had to be in a private place. The message was not "my life is beautiful," but rather, "Caylee's life was beautiful." As Mother of the Year, she smiled through the pain....

Okay....fess up. WTH was it that spiked AZ's drink with the kool-aid??? :rotfl:

 

[ynotdivein]

I respect and appreciate the most recent accident theory posts. Thought-provoking and good points made.


I will never be able to connect the dots between "accident" and the Bella Vita tattoo. A beautiful life? Huh?

It's no easy thing to explain, Beach, that's for sure... but IMO once Caylee was gone, whether by deliberate act or by accident, she was no longer a "problem" to KC, and I don't think KC felt more than an occasional pang of regret or remorse, only relief. Look at the Blockbuster video, and think about how TL described her during the 31 days. In her mind she really was living a beautiful life, and this was in part due to her ability to erase Caylee from her memory, no matter how she had died...

KC didn't want, love or bond with Caylee. Whether Caylee died by a true accident where KC wasn't paying attention and found her too late, or by KC's intentionally murdering her, or by being kidnapped and murdered by SOD--it's all the same to KC. Her reactions would have been the same. The main obstacle to her freedom was gone. Beautiful life. Party on, dude.

 

[Teresa]

When this incident first hit the news I believed it was an accident gone bad. Casey looked so young to be a mom that I imagined something horrible happened. I figured she was afraid to admit what had happened.

Now...I totally believe she killed Caylee. It breaks my heart to type this. No caring adult, parent or not, would not ask for help when a child is missing. If she truly was afraid to call the police she would have told a friend, boyfriend, parent, sibling...SOMEONE. You would not lie to the police but embrace ntheir support when they finally had been contacted. Once Caylee was found what reason did she have to be quiet? No parent who cares would put tape on their baby dead or not. Just the idea would make them sick.

No caring parent would be able to sleep, eat, think, etc. worrying about their baby. Casey's party behavior wasn't and isn't normal. I never heard any concern for her child.

No accident.

Teresa

 

[sumbunny]

I can see that happening. A few questions with this theory. For the sake of argument, George, although I don't believe he was completely truthful IMO, most likely did see Caylee Monday morning. So there is an amount of time which would have given Casey time to cool down from the blow-out possibly? VS. IMO Casey murdered Caylee in a spur of the moment where she is :furious: and only after decided on how she was going to clean up this mess. I'm still not convinced there was ever any odor in Casey's car prior to killing Caylee. My thought is that she made up that story to explain the odor that remained after she put Caylee in the car to go bury her.

I'll have to go back and read up on the cadaver dog hits and the locations they hit on but IIRC one area was around the sandbox. Would a cadaver dog hit on a general smell rather than it's source? IDK Did the dogs track to the garage? That would be interesting.

The shovel. Hmm... could be because it came up clean for any forensics. And, the neighbor didn't see Casey leave while she had the shovel. I just can't picture Casey borrowing that shovel unless she had a specific reason. What would be interesting to know is Casey's physical appearance when she returned the shovel.


Novice Seeker

BBM
Mr Burner (the neighbour who lent her the shovel, I think that is his name) described casey's appearance when she returned the shovel.
Said she was NOT sweating, looked fine. No dirt on her, or the shovel.
Only had the shovel one hour.

 

[luv]

I never did think this was an accident. The first time I ever heard about this case was in one short clip here on the news of her walking in hand cuffs wearing that blue hoody. In my opinion her eyes looked so cold and empty along with that expression on her face. I live in Canada so I never heard anymore about the case until an episode of Dr.Phil when I heard the tone of her voice while speaking to the 911 operator, it was very chilling to me. This along with all the other stuff that I've later learned, the tattoo, duck tape, blockbuster video, lack of emotion, etc. I personally, am absolutely convinced this was no accident. This is all just my opinion of course.