Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[LiveLaughLuv]

ICA is diabolical...

Thanks for the welcome Mrs G norris, I was a bit reluctant to post , being a newbie, but you guys seem lovely. I don't want to attribute qualities to Casey that she clearly doesn't have, but I do find the premeditation hard to swallow. I believe she loved Caylee in as much as she was capable of love, but her hate and resentment towards Cindy was paramount in her life. She craved Cindy's approval and I think we all know that the mother, daughter relationship is fraught with complexity in a lot of cases. I really believe she killed Caylee in an out of control moment and then panicked out of fear of her mother's wrath, hence the kidnapping story. I do think it's feasible to assume that she applied that duct tape immediately after death, which makes it very hard to determine exactly what happened. There are some amazing minds on here, and I have found this site to be a fantastic resource on this case.

:Welcome-12-june: To Websleuths, AussieSleuth...

Yes, I do believe CA and ICA has much resentment for each other...they were at odds with each other for a very long time, IMO.

Please do jump in...no need to feel reluctant to post, we all learn from each other, you have much to contribute...so, please jump in..

I also believe, the below video is the last face precious Caylee saw before this prisoner carried out her dastardly deed...JMHO

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li4MCED--no&feature=related[/ame]


Justice for Caylee

 

[pip]

Thanks for the welcome Mrs G norris, I was a bit reluctant to post , being a newbie, but you guys seem lovely. I don't want to attribute qualities to Casey that she clearly doesn't have, but I do find the premeditation hard to swallow. I believe she loved Caylee in as much as she was capable of love, but her hate and resentment towards Cindy was paramount in her life. She craved Cindy's approval and I think we all know that the mother, daughter relationship is fraught with complexity in a lot of cases. I really believe she killed Caylee in an out of control moment and then panicked out of fear of her mother's wrath, hence the kidnapping story. I do think it's feasible to assume that she applied that duct tape immediately after death, which makes it very hard to determine exactly what happened. There are some amazing minds on here, and I have found this site to be a fantastic resource on this case.

I have always thought along these lines as well. I believe it happened in an out of control rage. Although most people concur that the duct tape was placed pre-mortem and was a killing tool, I have always thought post-mortem. KC was very disorganized in her thinking after she killed Caylee. The heart sticker on the mouth leads me away from believing it was staging for a kidnapping scenario. I think she panicked after the June 24th gas can incident and quickly placed the body on Suburban, worried George may be on to her, and/or after her. I think she had fully intended to go back for the body to dispose of it better, where it would never be found..but could not do it. Why else would she leave the body on top the ground, close to home, in Anthony house laundry bags, with a heart sticker on the mouth? It would (and does) point directly to her as the killer. Suburban was a temporary, quick dump in a panic on the 24th IMO. I think she was way to freaked out to go back and move the body again...for the same reasons she left the body in the trunk for so long..she was avoiding it, she couldn't handle it. JMO.

 

[nort]

Hi, guys, I am an avid lurker but non poster so hope my etiquette is up to scratch.
Is it possible the duct tape was applied immediately after death? I don't think Caylee's death was an accident, but I do believe it was a spur of the moment event. Considering Casey has gone with a kidnapping story, the duct tape is a quintessential kidnapping component, especially for a movie buff. She is an accomplished liar and probably came up with this scenario very quickly, so I guess my question is, would they be able to tell if the duct tape was applied just before death, or just after?

I talked about this on the duct tape thread, if your going with the kidnapping story how would you stage it. The most popular scenario, duct tape the mouth and bind the hands. If caylee were already dead the duct tape over the nose has no bearing. I agree with the spur of the moment killing. While watching the jail tape she clearly goes from 1 to 100 in seconds, and thats just in a conversation she is struggling through, imagine if she were being bothered during her social time. As far as telling when the tape was placed it was either before she died or before decomp set in. Very important window there....Either way guilt as charged..Just not sure about the premeditation factor.

 

[LambChop]

There are many who believe the body was disposed of on the 24th of June. This would have been 8 days after Caylee was last seen. The forensic report indicates a body had been in the trunk for 2.6 days. If the body were still in the trunk on the 24th in that hot Florida sun it would have been considerably decomposed and fluids would have leaked all over KC's trunk leaving no doubt in anyone's mind that there had been a body in the trunk since the 16th. So it appears from the forensic report KC disposed of the body after 2.6 days of riding around with her in the trunk. Once the body was gone KC appears to have not had a care in the world. jmo

 

[nort]

There just has to be something to the borrowing of the shovel on the 18th after 2.6 days of caylees murder on the 16th. We just know she did not borrow it to be a love and do some yardwork for her parents. I think she may have wrapped the body after 2. 6 days and put it back in the trunk. Then almost getting caught by her father pushed her to dump Caylee. She did not keep him from that trunk because of the smell there had to be something she did not want him to see. Been down this road so many times and still dont really know what happened, its maddening. caIMO

 

[LambChop]

There just has to be something to the borrowing of the shovel on the 18th after 2.6 days of caylees murder on the 16th. We just know she did not borrow it to be a love and do some yardwork for her parents. I think she may have wrapped the body after 2. 6 days and put it back in the trunk. Then almost getting caught by her father pushed her to dump Caylee. She did not keep him from that trunk because of the smell there had to be something she did not want him to see. Been down this road so many times and still dont really know what happened, its maddening. caIMO

Keep in mind trash bags do not hold liquids well and if Caylee were lying in the trunk the fluids would be leaking all over that area after 8 days. It is not a pleasant thought but there may have been something in the trunk that she did not want to see. Plus after 8 days in a trunk unless the bags were sealed and no leakage was possible there would be no doubt in JB's mind that Caylee was in that trunk. Estimate for that time of year and in the elements would be two weeks to completely decompose. In a hot trunk I would imagine it would be excelerated. On the 24th GA would have definitely smelled something considering how the remains were found. jmo

 

[Lanie]

It's my opinion Casey killed Caylee out of spite towards Cindy. I also think Casey was in possession of actual chloroform, though I have no opinion if it had anything to do with Caylee.

I don't think Caylee's remains were moved around from place to place, and I don't think her remains were still in the vehicle by the 24th. IMO, Casey killed her, put her in the trunk, and promptly forgot about her until there was an odor. IMO, Casey then disposed of Caylee's remains at the second spot that popped into her head, in the 2.6 day timeframe. As far as not letting George near the trunk, IMO, that could be because she worried he would notice the smell, she had stuff in the trunk she didn't want him to see, (maybe stuff she had stolen from the house, or bought with money stolen from them) or she was having a spoiled rotten brat hissy fit because how dare her father make an issue of her breaking the lock on the shed and stealing his gas and gas cans.

IMO, she borrowed the shovel to dig a grave to bury Caylee in her parents' backyard (another poke at Cindy, 'you wanted her, here she is...') and it turned out to be actual work, so she went with just tossing her.

And that's my :twocents: for the day.

 

[MsRyber]

It's my opinion Casey killed Caylee out of spite towards Cindy. I also think Casey was in possession of actual chloroform, though I have no opinion if it had anything to do with Caylee.

IMO, that could be because she worried he would notice the smell, she had stuff in the trunk she didn't want him to see, (maybe stuff she had stolen from the house, or bought with money stolen from them) or she was having a spoiled rotten brat hissy fit because how dare her father make an issue of her breaking the lock on the shed and stealing his gas and gas cans.

^^^THIS.

I think she knew he would ask questions if she let him near the trunk.
I do not think Caylee's body was in there at that time. But I think she had garbage and other stuff that would make him take the car from her at that point. If she lost her car, she would have been screwed. So I really think that is why she didn't want him near it.

 

[nort]

That plastic bin comes to mind when putting the body back in the trunk, the one that the blanket was in. I will research that for a bit as there was a report that she was in an oxygen deprived environment. (not the tape it was environmental) IIRC

 

[nort]

Well that was a short ride it was a crate..not really a bin.

 

[LambChop]

It's my opinion Casey killed Caylee out of spite towards Cindy. I also think Casey was in possession of actual chloroform, though I have no opinion if it had anything to do with Caylee.

I don't think Caylee's remains were moved around from place to place, and I don't think her remains were still in the vehicle by the 24th. IMO, Casey killed her, put her in the trunk, and promptly forgot about her until there was an odor. IMO, Casey then disposed of Caylee's remains at the second spot that popped into her head, in the 2.6 day timeframe. As far as not letting George near the trunk, IMO, that could be because she worried he would notice the smell, she had stuff in the trunk she didn't want him to see, (maybe stuff she had stolen from the house, or bought with money stolen from them) or she was having a spoiled rotten brat hissy fit because how dare her father make an issue of her breaking the lock on the shed and stealing his gas and gas cans.

IMO, she borrowed the shovel to dig a grave to bury Caylee in her parents' backyard (another poke at Cindy, 'you wanted her, here she is...') and it turned out to be actual work, so she went with just tossing her.

And that's my :twocents: for the day.

Also the body goes into rigor after death so if KC checked in the morning on Caylee there would be no way KC would try to remove that body. Once it started to relax, about 2 to 3 days she may have decided it's time to get it out of the trunk. My guess is her first attempt was to bury her in the backyard. Then her next thought was this was easier when I buried my pets. She drove down the street and found she didn't even have to bury her child, just dropped her in the woods. Paints a lovely picture, doesn't it.....

 

[Pattymarie]

Casey has no conscience because she allows herself to have no conscience.

Perhaps duct tape was placed on Caylee before putting her in the trunk alive. Whether or not chloroform was used doesn't matter.

Duct tape and her in the trunk would muffle her screams/cries for help. (choking back tears even fathoming this)

Out of sight and out of mind for Casey so she doesn't have to even think about feeling anything. Then the smell came..and it didn't bring about any feelings in Casey other than to get rid of evidence as much as possible and try and cover her own you-know-what. MOO

I'll bet she didn't even have the foresight to understand that decomp smell would occur.

 

[NSS]

Before I begin this theory, I'll begin by saying I haven't thought it all the way through yet but will do once I'm alone later tonight.

What if there was no rage induced killing or accidental incident? Given that Casey didn't pack any clothes for the baby when she left the home (only her own things and claiming the imaginanny already had some), this makes me assume that ICA knew that she wouldn't be needing the babies things.

This may not mean she was already dead, just that ICA knew that she soon would be (cold premeditated murder).

Is it possible that the duct tape and the trunk were actually the murder weapon and scene? Did she just silence her with the tape and put her in the trunk until she passed away?

Depending on what time Caylee was placed in there, and because death would not have been immediate, it would allow for the 2.6 days of decomp and a later date dumping of the body.

Not sure this theory holds water, but I'll give it some more thought once I have refreshed my own memory of the evidence inc phone pings.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I find it interesting that, according to George, Casey had a resume that lists her 2004, 2005 positions and then for 2006 she lists 'Nanny'.

Why, I wonder, did Casey feel like a nanny versus purely a mom by 2006?
I also continue to wonder why Casey seems to hold so much control over her parents. I wonder why George tells LE his goal is too keep Casey happy. I wonder why Casey resents her mother so much versus being grateful for all of the help she gave her and Caylee before the tragedy of Caylee's death/murder. I wonder, wonder, wonder.

 

[LambChop]

I find it interesting that, according to George, Casey had a resume that lists her 2004, 2005 positions and then for 2006 she lists 'Nanny'.

Why, I wonder, did Casey feel like a nanny versus purely a mom by 2006?
I also continue to wonder why Casey seems to hold so much control over her parents. I wonder why George tells LE his goal is too keep Casey happy. I wonder why Casey resents her mother so much versus being grateful for all of the help she gave her and Caylee before the tragedy of Caylee's death/murder. I wonder, wonder, wonder.

It could very well be because CA is VERY controlling and KC coming into her own feels she needs to pattern herself after her mother. Problem is CA is still there, still trying to control KC, even today. How sad is this????

GA has no say, never has, never will. It's CA and KC, and right now CA is feeling her oats. Hopefully the new, improved law firm has brought her down a few pegs. KC hates/loves her mother because while CA tries to control KC's life and limit her freedom because of Caylee, KC loves her Mom because her Mom still protects her, makes her feel important and most importantly it is obvious Mom has told KC she's at least at "10". jmo

 

[nort]

I think her mother insulted her about her mothering and might have at one point said to her your no mother, your nothing more than a nanny to Caylee. I think they had awful arguments in regards to Caylee. I also think this was in part the reason Caylee died. In Caseys mind getting rid of Caylee would fix everything between her and her mother since the subject was at the center of their troubles. The kidnapping thing was the only way to have that happen and not have her mother turn on her forever. That poor baby was at the heart of an awful tug of war. So to stay on topic I think this played a huge part in Caylees murder. IMO

 

[nort]

From a more pratical perspective, she could put that on a resume and give a bunch of BS stories about numbers being disconnected and the people she worked for moving with no forwarding address etc... This would be her lie to cover for sitting on her behind for the last few years of her life. Without it being a conventional job where you could check references someone just might buy that she had been working. Thank god it was one of her fantasies and not something she planned on ever doing.IMO

 

[aussiesleuth]

I think Casey and Cindy's relationship was probably quite volatile long before Caylee came along. After reading the emails from Cindy's brother, it appears that Casey had a long history of incredible selfishness,thievery and compulsive lying. Some of these traits may have been learned off Cindy herself, and we do hate to see in others the things we dislike about ourselves. I really believe the one person who could have made Casey confess to what she did to Caylee is Cindy, but sadly she just didn't love Caylee enough to do the right thing. Makes me so sad for Caylee.

 

[nort]

ITA that their relationship was bad long before Caylee but Caylee was used by her mother as a pawn. She was used as leverage between the two of them. Cindy would threaten to take her and Casey would threaten to take her away. Casey could not afford and did not want to find a way to support Caylee, so she got rid of her in the only way she could (awful). Aussiesleuth: welcome.....

 

[SuperChick]

While we will probably never know what really happened, there are certain facts that can be deduced. I have concluded the following:

1. Chloraform was used/made in the trunk of caseys car.
A. Computer searches in March on how to make chloraform
B. Unusually high levels of chloraform found in the trunk, prompting a lab email

2. Pre or post mortem, the duct tape applied was meant to be permanent
A. tape went well into Caylees hair and had to be cut out

3. Casey knew Caylee was decomposing in her trunk and attemped to disguise the odor
A. Conversations and txts to AH claiming an animal was plastered to the car frame
B. Conversation with Lee on 7/15/08 where she claimed it was squirrels in the engine
C. Her placement of a bag of Tony's garbage in the trunk as another excuse

I could go on, but these three facts coupled with her deliberate cover up of Caylee's whereabouts to friends, family and finally law enforcement is enough for me to conclude Casey planned to drug and murder her child and cover up her tracks.