Theories: Why Would Elizabeth kill Gabriel?

[jenny1976]

This does not appear to be a direct quote but at the end of this video (~2:29), the reporter says SAPD requested to speak with Elizabeth and her attorney said no. http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=794788@woai.dayport.com&navCatId=5

I just really hope she starts talking. Hopefully a murder investigation can help propel her to do so.

I have been chewing on the part about SA LE trying to contact EJ via phone but her attorney would not allow it. I think this speaks VOLUMES about her guilt. I have said before and will say it again, if there was a live child to be found, then why won't the lawyer convince her to give up his location in exchange for some plea bargain? Remember when she was at her bond hearing (or whatever that was) where the judge reminded her that she didn't have a lawyer? She was pretty talkative at that hearing. She said that everything the prosecutor was saying was "completely false." So, why isn't she talking??? I think the reasons are obvious.

Just this week not too far from where I live, a man reported his 8 month old son missing. An amber alert was issued after the father said that two masked men broke into his home, beat him unconcious, and then kidnapped the baby. The baby's body was found yesterday morning floating in the river and the man was arrested. They have not charged the father with murder, pending autopsy results tomorrow (Monday).

here's the link: http://www.joplinglobe.com/eddie_salazar_case/local_story_038091509.html

So, my point is that this man allegedly made up a kidnapping story to cover the murder of his own child.

I hope someone can argue with me and put some holes in my theory, but the fact that she is not talking is telling me something unthinkable happened and her lawyer is telling her to keep quiet until more evidence is uncovered that would incriminate her in Gabriel's murder.

 

[DairyGirl]

I have been chewing on the part about SA LE trying to contact EJ via phone but her attorney would not allow it. I think this speaks VOLUMES about her guilt. I have said before and will say it again, if there was a live child to be found, then why won't the lawyer convince her to give up his location in exchange for some plea bargain? Remember when she was at her bond hearing (or whatever that was) where the judge reminded her that she didn't have a lawyer? She was pretty talkative at that hearing. She said that everything the prosecutor was saying was "completely false." So, why isn't she talking??? I think the reasons are obvious.

Just this week not too far from where I live, a man reported his 8 month old son missing. An amber alert was issued after the father said that two masked men broke into his home, beat him unconcious, and then kidnapped the baby. The baby's body was found yesterday morning floating in the river and the man was arrested. They have not charged the father with murder, pending autopsy results tomorrow (Monday).

here's the link: http://www.joplinglobe.com/eddie_salazar_case/local_story_038091509.html

So, my point is that this man allegedly made up a kidnapping story to cover the murder of his own child.

I hope someone can argue with me and put some holes in my theory, but the fact that she is not talking is telling me something unthinkable happened and her lawyer is telling her to keep quiet until more evidence is uncovered that would incriminate her in Gabriel's murder.

I tend to view her silence as incriminating, too. I was wondering, if she were thinking about taking a plea, would it be with San Antonio LE or Tempe LE? It is confusing having two jurisdictions involved in the case. The only reason I can see for her being silent is either she is looking for a deal or she knows that what she says could get her into even more trouble then she already is. I can't believe that she hates LM so much that she would be willing to spend 20 years in prison rather then have her son with him but I guess that is possible, too.

 

[BeanE]

I tend to view her silence as incriminating, too. I was wondering, if she were thinking about taking a plea, would it be with San Antonio LE or Tempe LE? It is confusing having two jurisdictions involved in the case. The only reason I can see for her being silent is either she is looking for a deal or she knows that what she says could get her into even more trouble then she already is. I can't believe that she hates LM so much that she would be willing to spend 20 years in prison rather then have her son with him but I guess that is possible, too.

For her current charges, she's charged out of Tempe, so that's who she'd have to plea with. San Antonio hasn't brought any charges yet, but a homicide charge I think would have to come out of there because that's where the crime would have most likely occurred. There was a brief interview with the SA SA in the last day or two. It should be in the media thread or the Daily News Briefs thread.

I would also find it hard to believe she hates Logan so much she'd be willing to spend that long in prison. She's very young. But I don't know. There are actually people who do better in prison because of the controlled environment. They feel safer.

 

[DairyGirl]

For her current charges, she's charged out of Tempe, so that's who she'd have to plea with. San Antonio hasn't brought any charges yet, but a homicide charge I think would have to come out of there because that's where the crime would have most likely occurred. There was a brief interview with the SA SA in the last day or two. It should be in the media thread or the Daily News Briefs thread.

I would also find it hard to believe she hates Logan so much she'd be willing to spend that long in prison. She's very young. But I don't know. There are actually people who do better in prison because of the controlled environment. They feel safer.

I agree, she might be ok in jail because she was facing an uncertain future anyway. Homeless, jobless, no more partner or child, she really didn't know what was going to happen. Now she has a place to sleep and food to eat and no real responsibilities. Also, growing up in foster homes, she may be used to kind of an institutionalized lifestyle. No real motive to get herself out I guess.

 

[BeanE]

I agree, she might be ok in jail because she was facing an uncertain future anyway. Homeless, jobless, no more partner or child, she really didn't know what was going to happen. Now she has a place to sleep and food to eat and no real responsibilities. Also, growing up in foster homes, she may be used to kind of an institutionalized lifestyle. No real motive to get herself out I guess.

Exactly. I'm thinking especially about that unstable childhood, and how she seemed to be out of control emotionally on this SA trip and before, possibly for months. It might be actually comforting to her to have her environment and everyday life in jail predictable and limited. It's just so hard to say how her head works. She's obviously seriously disturbed. I would not be completely surprised if she's even psychotic right now, or was through December.

This girl is hard to figure out. She doesn't seem psychotic - no hallucinations or wild delusions - but her behavior is so extreme, and her grandfather's reports that she seems happy - that just doesn't fit the situation no matter what happened.

Ordinarily, I say no hallucinations/delusions, no psychosis, but this girl? I just don't know. I just know for sure she needs a good psychiatrist to do a complete, detailed eval and get her on some meds.

I'm thinking meds might even get her to talk, if they can get her thinking more calmly and clearly, and keep her away from Tammi fanning the flames of her rage. Both of those, in that controlled environment, just might lead her to telling what she did with Gabe.

I wonder why we haven't seen any motions or court orders for a psych eval. That's VERY odd to me.

 

[Artessia]

EJ and Baby Gabriel on surveillance video at Six Flags in San Antonio

http://www.kpho.com/news/22494558/detail.html

 

[iluvmua]

Gabriel has been missing for almost 2 months, the odds are against him.

EJ's silence is very telling. IF anyone had this baby then why have they not come foward?

The most likely option is that she killed him.

 

[Artessia]

Gabriel has been missing for almost 2 months, the odds are against him.

EJ's silence is very telling. IF anyone had this baby then why have they not come foward?

The most likely option is that she killed him.

I do not believe the type of person who would engage in an underground adoption- would be the type of person to come forward. That is my opinion though.....:blushing:

 

[NewMommy09]

I do not believe the type of person who would engage in an underground adoption- would be the type of person to come forward. That is my opinion though.....:blushing:

ITA.
I try to tell myself that someone could really have wanted to adopt him, and is willing to keep quiet to keep him. But sadly, I'm well aware that even if he was illegally adopted out, he may have been hurt, abused, or worse. If someone does have him and does care about him, I hope that they soon realize that giving him back to his daddy would be doing the best thing for him. Keeping him from Logan is NOT loving this child, IMO.

 

[NewMommy09]

For her current charges, she's charged out of Tempe, so that's who she'd have to plea with. San Antonio hasn't brought any charges yet, but a homicide charge I think would have to come out of there because that's where the crime would have most likely occurred. There was a brief interview with the SA SA in the last day or two. It should be in the media thread or the Daily News Briefs thread.

I would love some professional legal insight as to how a possible plea deal would work in this case. Would both SA and Maricopa County have to work together to work out the details for a plea deal, or is that even possible? Or could a deal be worked only within one county. For example, if EJ worked a plea deal with SA, would it be possible for her to not face charges in Maricopa? Or does that all have to happen seperately?

 

[Concernedmomarizona]

Just curious for those that voted in the poll that they think Elizabeth did the unthinkable....has your view changed based on the latest reports?

 

[PoppyH]

Just curious for those that voted in the poll that they think Elizabeth did the unthinkable....has your view changed based on the latest reports?

Yes, mine has, I voted that she did, Now Im not so sure, Guess I will sit on the fence for awhile, I so want Gabriel to be safe and sound, not in a trash heap

 

[BeanE]

I would love some professional legal insight as to how a possible plea deal would work in this case. Would both SA and Maricopa County have to work together to work out the details for a plea deal, or is that even possible? Or could a deal be worked only within one county. For example, if EJ worked a plea deal with SA, would it be possible for her to not face charges in Maricopa? Or does that all have to happen seperately?

That's a great question. I know the SAs across jurisdictions work together to decide who's going to bring which charges, but I don't know at all how it works when it comes to plea deals across jurisdictions. They would have to be in agreement I would think. But what if they couldn't come to an agreement? I don't know if there's a higher entity that could step in across two different states.

Maybe AZlawyer could give us some insight.

Maybe we need a Legal Questions thread? We've got one in Caylee's forum where the verified attorneys answer questions about that case.

 

[NewMommy09]

That's a great question. I know the SAs across jurisdictions work together to decide who's going to bring which charges, but I don't know at all how it works when it comes to plea deals across jurisdictions. They would have to be in agreement I would think. But what if they couldn't come to an agreement? I don't know if there's a higher entity that could step in across two different states.

Maybe AZlawyer could give us some insight.

Maybe we need a Legal Questions thread? We've got one in Caylee's forum where the verified attorneys answer questions about that case.

I think a legal questions thread is a great idea, BeanE. I think any which way this case goes, there are going to be plenty of legal questions.

 

[smart blonde]

Just curious for those that voted in the poll that they think Elizabeth did the unthinkable....has your view changed based on the latest reports?

Unfortunately, no, not at all.

I have believed from the beginning that Elizabeth went to San Antonio with the hope of adopting Gabriel out.

But, I think that after Elizabeth spoke with Tammi on the telephone (this would be the phone call that the babysitter overheard while in the motel room), and Tammi telling Elizabeth that Logan wouldn't sign the papers, and that the adoption was not going to happen, and Tammi telling Elizabeth to just bring Gabriel back to Arizona and face the music... I feel it was then that Elizabeth flew into a rage of anger and frustration and killed Gabriel- just as she would soon tell Logan she did.

I don't care how many sightings there were of Elizabeth and Gabriel before the day the babysitter witnessed Elizabeth throwing a fit during that phone call- what concerns me is that there have been no truly verified sightings of Gabriel after Elizabeth left that motel room.

 

[Concernedmomarizona]

Unfortunately, no, not at all.

I have believed from the beginning that Elizabeth went to San Antonio with the hope of adopting Gabriel out.

But, I think that after Elizabeth spoke with Tammi on the telephone (this would be the phone call that the babysitter overheard while in the motel room), and Tammi telling Elizabeth that Logan wouldn't sign the papers, and that the adoption was not going to happen, and Tammi telling Elizabeth to just bring Gabriel back to Arizona and face the music... I feel it was then that Elizabeth flew into a rage of anger and frustration and killed Gabriel- just as she would soon tell Logan she did.

I don't care how many sightings there were of Elizabeth and Gabriel before the day the babysitter witnessed Elizabeth throwing a fit during that phone call- what concerns me is that there have been no truly verified sightings of Gabriel after Elizabeth left that motel room.

I believe the six flags sighting (with survellience video) may be after the babysitter was there (I believe that was ~12/23)?? The six flags sighting was on the 26th. I think the babysitter was there in the AM on the 23rd and the pictures were taken on the 26th....so it makes sense that, like Logan's cousin suggested in the news report, that she took some pictures and drove to six flags to make the hand off?

 

[DaneBramage]

I am totally stumped at this point. At first I was sure that the worst had happened. Now I keep going back and forth. Not tooting my own horn here, but, I have been right on most of these types of cases. In the case in Florida with the whole nanny ruse, I knew that CMA was dead.

 

[DairyGirl]

I am totally stumped at this point. At first I was sure that the worst had happened. Now I keep going back and forth. Not tooting my own horn here, but, I have been right on most of these types of cases. In the case in Florida with the whole nanny ruse, I knew that CMA was dead.

I agree. I have been back and forth on this myself. At first I was sure he was alive, then as more and more time went by I started fearing that maybe EJ did what she said she did. Why else would she just sit in jail? Now with the reports about the underground adoptions I have hope again. I sure hope they find the little guy.

 

[DaneBramage]

I agree. I have been back and forth on this myself. At first I was sure he was alive, then as more and more time went by I started fearing that maybe EJ did what she said she did. Why else would she just sit in jail? Now with the reports about the underground adoptions I have hope again. I sure hope they find the little guy.

Me too.

 

[smart blonde]

If the last sighting of Gabriel was way back on December 26th, 2009- it doesn't leave me with much hope.

I find it hard to believe that anyone keeping him hidden wouldn't realize by now that to keep hiding him is tantamount to signing away the rest of their own lives in a prison cell. Gabriel's family, and the authorities, are never going to stop searching for this child until he is found.

I also firmly believe that if Gabriel were still alive, Elizabeth would be doing everything she could to help find him- if nothing else, to reduce her own eventual prison sentence. A live Gabriel would be a very powerful bargaining chip.