Theories: Why Would Elizabeth kill Gabriel?

[BeanE]

I am wondering why you believe that telling the truth would get her out. Wouldn't the things she's been charged with still stick, even if Gabe found his way home tonight?

I suppose they might have offered her some kind of deal but there's a strong possibility they wouldn't, with so much unknown. Do we know one way or another? I miss things sometimes.

There is also the possibility that EJ really doesn't know any more than what she has told. IF she worked with an underground network, there would likely be multiple safeguards in place so that in the event someone is questioned, they are unable to provide information... multiple disposable phones, circuitous routes, mothers given a set of specific instructions to be at X point at Y time and not much else, etc.

That sounds like a lot of information she would know. No matter how Eliz may have given away Gabe, she would have information: who contacted her, how they contacted her, who she was told to contact, where she was told to go, when she was told to go, what she was told to do, what the people's voices sounded like, contents of emails, contents of text messages, what the people looked like, mannerisms of the people, how they were dressed, etc etc etc.

It's impossible for her to have given away her baby, and have no information on how she went about doing so.

Yet, per LE, all she's done is asked for water and to go to the bathroom, not given any information.

 

[southern_comfort]

That sounds like a lot of information she would know. No matter how Eliz may have given away Gabe, she would have information: who contacted her, how they contacted her, who she was told to contact, where she was told to go, when she was told to go, what she was told to do, what the people's voices sounded like, contents of emails, contents of text messages, what the people looked like, mannerisms of the people, how they were dressed, etc etc etc.

It's impossible for her to have given away her baby, and have no information on how she went about doing so.

Yet, per LE, all she's done is asked for water and to go to the bathroom, not given any information.

I remember reading that she acted that way at first, but I think she told them about the hotel handoff and gave the description of the blonde woman and dark man after that. (Assuming she gave that info to LE and it wasn't just more TS junk).

Is it possible all EJ knew was: Tammi is going to help me get out from under this baby (and stick it to LM as a bonus). I am to do this:
1. Get in my car and drive to SA.
2. Check into the Homegate Suites and plan to stay for 5 days.
3. Wait for a call and then meet a third party on Dec. XX (whatever day the babysitter watched Gabe) at some other location. (to pick up fake ID, new phone, partial payment, etc)
4. Wait for a call and then hand Gabriel over.

 

[mydailyopinions]

I am wondering why you believe that telling the truth would get her out. Wouldn't the things she's been charged with still stick, even if Gabe found his way home tonight?

I suppose they might have offered her some kind of deal but there's a strong possibility they wouldn't, with so much unknown. Do we know one way or another? I miss things sometimes.

There is also the possibility that EJ really doesn't know any more than what she has told. IF she worked with an underground network, there would likely be multiple safeguards in place so that in the event someone is questioned, they are unable to provide information... multiple disposable phones, circuitous routes, mothers given a set of specific instructions to be at X point at Y time and not much else, etc.

I believe that if she cooperated, her bond would be lowered and she could get out before trial...IF she were to give information leading to Gabriel, I do think any agency would be willing to help her out a bit if she would help them return Gabriel to his father.
I don't believe for one second she doesn't know anymore than she is telling. If this was anything dealing with an underground network she could give a clear description of the people with Gabriel. She handed her child to a couple (so she says) she would be able to identify the color shirt the woman was wearing, and with her fashion taste, more than likely what shoes she was wearing.
My personal opinion is that this has nothing to do with any underground network.

 

[panthera]

That sounds like a lot of information she would know. No matter how Eliz may have given away Gabe, she would have information: who contacted her, how they contacted her, who she was told to contact, where she was told to go, when she was told to go, what she was told to do, what the people's voices sounded like, contents of emails, contents of text messages, what the people looked like, mannerisms of the people, how they were dressed, etc etc etc.

It's impossible for her to have given away her baby, and have no information on how she went about doing so.

Yet, per LE, all she's done is asked for water and to go to the bathroom, not given any information.

You are so right ~ as usual! Even if EJ had handed off Gabriel though some underground network, she'd at least have some names to provide LE with to try to help out her situation. I certainly would think they'd be willing to make some sort of deal in exchange for information leading to finding Gabriel. But her silence speaks volumes, imo. She has nothing to offer that would help herself ~ or find an alive Gabriel. :cry: MOO

 

[TXHOPE]

That sounds like a lot of information she would know. No matter how Eliz may have given away Gabe, she would have information: who contacted her, how they contacted her, who she was told to contact, where she was told to go, when she was told to go, what she was told to do, what the people's voices sounded like, contents of emails, contents of text messages, what the people looked like, mannerisms of the people, how they were dressed, etc etc etc.

It's impossible for her to have given away her baby, and have no information on how she went about doing so.

Yet, per LE, all she's done is asked for water and to go to the bathroom, not given any information.

Has LE said that she's still not talking since the phone call to TS on Friday? I think she maybe talking now.

 

[mydailyopinions]

Has LE said that she's still not talking since the phone call to TS on Friday? I think she maybe talking now.

I sure hope you are right TXHOPE!

 

[panthera]

Has LE said that she's still not talking since the phone call to TS on Friday? I think she maybe talking now.

I hope you are right, but I'll believe it when LE says something. It's already been a month since her arrest. MOO

 

[TXHOPE]

I don't believe the underground adoption thing at all... I do believe if TS bailed on her when Logan wouldn't sign the papers and told her that she should just come back, she would take matters into her own hands before going back. Taking matters into her owns hands give me two possible scenerios though 1)She killed him 2) She went to the library and got on craigslist and scoured private adoption ads all over TX (the ads that were sent in by WS as a tip) to try and find someone to adopt Gabriel fast. I just dont know if that was possible or fast enough though. The thing that gets me is why SA??? Why so long??? Something brought her to SA, there was a plan.

 

[southern_comfort]

Has LE said that she's still not talking since the phone call to TS on Friday? I think she maybe talking now.

That is really the point, I think. LE said very early on that EJ wasn't talking, and we saw her defensive attitude when she appeared before the judge in the beginning. But they haven't said anything since, and I am not so sure it stayed that way.

I don't take LE's silence on that subject as an indication that nothing has changed. She may well have given a detailed description of the people she met, including shirts and shoes, and that still isn't enough to locate them.

 

[TXHOPE]

That is really the point, I think. LE said very early on that EJ wasn't talking, and we saw her defensive attitude when she appeared before the judge in the beginning. But they haven't said anything since, and I am not so sure it stayed that way.

I don't take LE's silence on that subject as an indication that nothing has changed. She may well have given a detailed description of the people she met, including shirts and shoes, and that still isn't enough to locate them.

Well remember TS said (for what it's worth) EJ didn't even want to know where she lived and she thought that was really strange since she was about to adopt her son. She may have wanted to know as little as possible if there was a handoff. She has to know something though..

 

[mydailyopinions]

I don't believe the underground adoption thing at all... I do believe if TS bailed on her when Logan wouldn't sign the papers and told her that she should just come back, she would take matters into her own hands before going back. Taking matters into her owns hands give me two possible scenerios though 1)She killed him 2) She went to the library and got on craigslist and scoured private adoption ads all over TX (the ads that were sent in by WS as a tip) to try and find someone to adopt Gabriel fast. I just dont know if that was possible or fast enough though. The thing that gets me is why SA??? Why so long??? Something brought her to SA, there was a plan.

I personally think the plan was for EJ to go to SA long enough for the Smith's to either obtain all the fake information they needed to illegally adopt Gabriel, or to keep her there long enough to threaten Logan into signing the adoption papers.
I personally think all this went wrong when Logan refused to sign the papers and the Smith's couldn't figure out how to fake the documents to adopt Gabriel.

 

[southern_comfort]

Well remember TS said (for what it's worth) EJ didn't even want to know where she lived and she thought that was really strange since she was about to adopt her son. She may have wanted to know as little as possible if there was a handoff. She has to know something though..

Oh, EJ knows things, thought I don't know whether it's enough to locate Gabriel. I hope she is telling them to LE and despite her initial cockiness, I tend to think she has been. We are talking about a month of investigation here. LE has been doing something, and it's not searching the landfill!

As for TS, she tries to anticipate questions and loopholes and explain them away before people wonder about them. "She said she doesn't know anything about the people who have the baby and that really freaks us out... but she didn't know anything about US either. We can't understand it at all and neither can you, but that's just how Elizabeth is." Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

 

[jenny1976]

Hello All! I am new here! I've been lurking for a while, but thought I would give my opinion.

As sad as it is, I now think that she killed Gabriel. I have been praying for his safe recovery, but with no new news lately, I think she told the truth in the text to LM.

I just find it unbelievable that no one has come forward with more information on the whereabouts of Gabriel if she did indeed give him away to an unknown couple.

I would think that if the TS was involved as we are all speculating, then LE could have found enough info in their search, LDT, etc. to arrest them. I'm not saying she didn't play a hand in this whole thing, but I don't think it is involved as we all would like to think.

I agree with someone's post about it being a crime of passion. She may have done it in a moment of overwhelming sadness where she thought Gabriel would be better off not being in this world. Then she detached and disposed of the body. I would be interested to know how the initial contact between EJ and LM began on the 27th of Dec. Did she just out of the blue call/text him and say she killed the baby? Or did he call here and hound her about their whereabouts? She said in her interview from Florida that she "just wanted him (LM) to leave her alone." So, did she just send the text in an attempt to just get him off her back?

I hope and pray that he is found alive, but it just seems unlikely at this point.

 

[southern_comfort]

I personally think the plan was for EJ to go to SA long enough for the Smith's to either obtain all the fake information they needed to illegally adopt Gabriel, or to keep her there long enough to threaten Logan into signing the adoption papers.
I personally think all this went wrong when Logan refused to sign the papers and the Smith's couldn't figure out how to fake the documents to adopt Gabriel.

Do you have a theory to explain their reasoning for the choice of SA? Why didn't they just send her up to TN?

Everything is so circuitous. It makes me suspicious. People try to circumvent fathers' rights all the time, but the plots are not so intricate.

I read this article from a few years back that describes an underground network that moves kids around from place to place, family to family. It is talking mainly about kids adopted from overseas who are no longer wanted by their adoptive families, but I see no reason why a presumably unwanted American-born child couldn't be placed into such a network, or at least hidden in it for a while. Coincidentally, the main subject family is in TN.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-18-swapping-children_x.htm

 

[OneLove]

I believe there is a chance that EJ thinks if she can just hold out long enough before she sings, then Gabriel will be safely hidden away with "changed looks". I think Jack Smith "reminded" her of that in the first jailhouse interview with a reporter present, right after TS publicly blamed Logan for the situation. Jack and Tammi allowed at least half of their allowed talk time to be used up by the reporter asking questions before they talked themselves, and then only asked EJ what she had wanted to say to them when there was no time left (and no privacy) for her to speak her mind.

So, if EJ is just holding out as long as she can and then tells what she knows, will that get her off the hook for murder charges? Will Gabriel be unfindable by then because his looks will have changed enough? I don't think so, but the Smiths and EJ might think so.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

<<Expert: 'Baby Gabriel Likely Dead'
Dr. Steven Pitt: 'I Would Be Shocked If Gabriel Is Found Alive'
Pat McReynolds
Reporter, KPHO.com

POSTED: 10:12 pm MST January 28, 2010
UPDATED: 7:25 am MST January 29, 2010>>

http://www.kpho.com/news/22372763/detail.html

 

[BeanE]

I remember reading that she acted that way at first, but I think she told them about the hotel handoff and gave the description of the blonde woman and dark man after that. (Assuming she gave that info to LE and it wasn't just more TS junk).

Personally, I have no reason to suspect LE of lying. They still say Eliz is not talking, and I believe them.

 

[southern_comfort]

Personally, I have no reason to suspect LE of lying. They still say Eliz is not talking, and I believe them.

I must have missed where LE said that. I haven't watched all of the pressers. I heard it early on, then she started talking, but I didn't hear them say she had clammed up again. I'll go back and watch them.

 

[BeanE]

I must have missed where LE said that. I haven't watched all of the pressers. I heard it early on, then she started talking, but I didn't hear them say she had clammed up again. I'll go back and watch them.

She has never talked to LE. That is what LE has said consistently, up to and including their most recent statements.

The only thing LE has said she talked to them about is to ask for water and to go to the bathroom.

All else has come from her jail interview, Tammi, the ABC producers who have talked to her on the phone (two phone conversations w/ABC producers), and speculation by the public.

ETA:

As time has passed, the case of Gabriel Johnson has taken several twists, most of which have been refuted by police.
The following are questions and rumors and the Tempe Police Department's responses.

snip

Several media outlets reported Johnson was working with the FBI to create a composite sketch of a couple she reportedly gave Gabriel to in San Antonio. Police sent out a news release to refute this, and emphasized in a briefing that Johnson is not cooperating with investigators. She hasn't made any indications to police about what she's done with Gabriel and has only spoken with them to ask for water and to use the bathroom, Tempe police Sgt. Mike Horn said.

Tammi Smith told reporters that she has met with Johnson in jail, and that Johnson told her there was video footage at the FBI of Johnson handing the child over to a couple outside a San Antonio hotel. Sgt. Steve Carbajal, a Tempe police spokesman, said immediately after the reports surfaced that there was no such footage.

San Antonio news stations reported the name of a specific park where Johnson met the mystery couple, Carbajal said. But he said police are unaware of any such park.

If LE has issued a statement since January 17 that Eliz has begun talking to them, I would very much appreciate a link.

 

[southern_comfort]

I don't have a link, other than the latest from the AZ sheriff describing what a cooperative prisoner EJ is. My impression that she gave more info may have come from TS.

Trying to find reasons to stay hopeful about this is getting harder.