Theories: Why Would Elizabeth kill Gabriel?

[impatientredhead]

I agree that the landfill search should have started immediately, in fact they should have followed all the trash trucks from the area right away and searched them for evidence like they did in the Somer Thompson case. I can't help but wonder, however, if the fact that this involved a person, and as you've noted a woman no less, from out of state and there were some LE logistics to be sorted out as to who was responsible to take the case right from the beginning.

IMO, AZ LE and the FBI should have handled the whole Smith/illegal adoption angle while SA LE should have conducted a homicide investigation simultaneously, if for no other reason than to collect evidence from that hotel room and to possibly rule out her text to LM.

MOO

It was my understanding that they isolated the area where those dumpsters would have been dumped almost immediately. The landfill operation didn't add any debris to those areas but weather and evidence standards prevented them from starting a physical search. The rain level made it a run off hazard and whether we like it or not they have to get their budget approved.

As much evidence of a homicide, there was equal if not greater evidence to show that the Smith's had been involved and taken the child into hiding. Especially when there is not a bloody crime scene.

They chose to go with the side that says maybe he is alive and we can find him before it is too late. Chased the paper trail, did the questioning. If she has killed him the landfill debris has been isolated and they can tackle that multimillion dollar high risk search when the weather changes.

 

[BeanE]

Just wanted to say that my hope that Elizabeth did not harm Gabe has increased significantly in the past couple days.

 

[Kamille]

It was my understanding that they isolated the area where those dumpsters would have been dumped almost immediately. The landfill operation didn't add any debris to those areas but weather and evidence standards prevented them from starting a physical search. The rain level made it a run off hazard and whether we like it or not they have to get their budget approved.

As much evidence of a homicide, there was equal if not greater evidence to show that the Smith's had been involved and taken the child into hiding. Especially when there is not a bloody crime scene.

They chose to go with the side that says maybe he is alive and we can find him before it is too late. Chased the paper trail, did the questioning. If she has killed him the landfill debris has been isolated and they can tackle that multimillion dollar high risk search when the weather changes.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that the text was sent on a Sunday, right after Christmas. There were no garbage pickups on that day I would imagine. They could have prevented the hotel dumpsters at least from being taken to the regular landfill until they had a chance to go over everything in them. I guess they didn't. But I do understand that they at least searched them before they were taken to the landfill for a suspicious diaper bag. I have to believe they at least did that.

So if they're checking the landfill now, they must believe that the possibility exists that either they missed something during the first checks or that another dumpster in the area may have been used. Not sure how big of an area they have decided to check but 45 feet of garbage is a lot.

 

[Kamille]

Just wanted to say that my hope that Elizabeth did not harm Gabe has increased significantly in the past couple days.

Mine too BeanE

 

[TXHOPE]

Just wanted to say that my hope that Elizabeth did not harm Gabe has increased significantly in the past couple days.

I know you can't tell us everything the family has shared with you but the information you did share and even this little comment made me feel alot better about finding Gabriel. Thanks BeanE :blowkiss:

 

[BeanE]

I know you can't tell us everything the family has shared with you but the information you did share and even this little comment made me feel alot better about finding Gabriel. Thanks BeanE :blowkiss:

I really think there's something to the Hispanic guy and the couple.

I'm glad you're feeling better, Txhope

Let's sleuth and see if we can't put some more pieces together!!!!

 

[Kamille]

I really think there's something to the Hispanic guy and the couple.

I'm glad you're feeling better, Txhope

Let's sleuth and see if we can't put some more pieces together!!!!

I believe so too. If the Hispanic guy was just a hook up that EJ met and spent time with in SA during that week, I can't see any reason why he wouldn't have gone to LE right away after hearing the news. He would have been able to provide a lot of useful information about EJ's movements and behaviour that week. Same thing for the couple if they were just innocent friends of the Hispanic guy.

If witnesses saw her with this guy, in his vehicle, and he hasn't come forward to LE then there's something hinky about him for sure. And I bet the hotel owners know exactly who he is. He probably hung around those two hotels all the time and I don't believe that they don't know what's going on in their hotels. :furious: MOO

 

[LogicalMinds]

I really hope this sweet baby is ok somewhere with someone but I don't think that he is.

I think Elizabeth is much like Casey A...who may have been trying to "get back" at her mother while avoiding her responsibilities....Elizabeth was trying to "get back" at Logan

I think the analogy of "if Elizabeth was a guy" rings very true...if she was a guy more people would "believe" her horrible story that the baby was blue/dead

2 months have gone by...the idea that "she still faces 20 years no matter what" doesn't ring true to me...I am sure that she has been offered some deals or idea of a deal to tell the truth...and still she sits there. She is between 2 states that can/will use the death penalty....so she has reason to "talk"

I think she does not talk because the truth is horrible...she killed poor little baby Gabe...either overdosed him or killed him in a rage, smothered him

Another thing that says she killed him to me...IF she had really put him up for adoption to some black market agency she should have had more money than just a cheap bus fare on an off brand busline, and money for a shared dorm type hostel room. She would have had money for a (used) car, a nice hotel, some new clothes...she didn't

the pictures, the sightings of Gabe stop on the 26th.

It is such a shame to me that so many let him down....the state workers....even that "babysitter"....

more people need to get involved when they see/suspect a child is being abused JMO

 

[BeanE]

IF she had really put him up for adoption to some black market agency she should have had more money than just a cheap bus fare on an off brand busline, and money for a shared dorm type hostel room. She would have had money for a (used) car, a nice hotel, some new clothes...she didn't

I agree that there just isn't enough money to indicate Elizabeth sold Gabe. If she did, it would have been only for a few hundred dollars. She could have agreed to accept only a couple hundred dollars, though, to cover her trip to FL.

I think though that it is more likely that Elizabeth would have given Gabe to someone. When I look at why she may have simply given Gabe to someone, it makes me think that she was more likely giving him to someone to hide for a while to shake Logan up.

I think with the information just coming out, that is allowing us to tie together the pieces of the story into something that makes much more sense, that it is rapidly becoming less and less likely that Elizabeth harmed Gabe.

I think Elizabeth has hidden Gabe with a friend, or a friend of a friend (and no, I don't mean Smith related - LE has said they're not involved, and don't have knowledge. Elizabeth arranged this herself). This is what's in keeping with the known facts of this case, and in keeping with Elizabeth's known behavior patterns.

It's also in keeping with her not talking... yet. She hasn't invoked her right to a speedy trial. She's completely nonchalant about Gabe's current well-being. She "doesn't understand what the problem is". Put it together, and you've got a vicious, disturbed girl playing a mean game - she's just not done hurting Logan yet. For God's sake, get that girl on some meds to calm down her rage, and I bet she'll get tired of the game and talk.

Occam's Razor. It just makes sense.

 

[Boo Scout]

I think though that it is more likely that Elizabeth would have given Gabe to someone. When I look at why she may have simply given Gabe to someone, it makes me think that she was more likely giving him to someone to hide for a while to shake Logan up.

I think with the information just coming out, that is allowing us to tie together the pieces of the story into something that makes much more sense, that it is rapidly becoming less and less likely that Elizabeth harmed Gabe.

I think Elizabeth has hidden Gabe with a friend, or a friend of a friend (and no, I don't mean Smith related - LE has said they're not involved, and don't have knowledge. Elizabeth arranged this herself). This is what's in keeping with the known facts of this case, and in keeping with Elizabeth's known behavior patterns.

It's also in keeping with her not talking... yet. She hasn't invoked her right to a speedy trial. She's completely nonchalant about Gabe's current well-being. She "doesn't understand what the problem is". Put it together, and you've got a vicious, disturbed girl playing a mean game - she's just not done hurting Logan yet. For God's sake, get that girl on some meds to calm down her rage, and I bet she'll get tired of the game and talk.

Occam's Razor. It just makes sense.

BeanE - your posts continue to hearten me. I have believed EJ did not harm Gabriel since I've followed this case. That was based on a feeling - not much evidentiary value there. As I've read everything that I can regarding the case and time has passed, I've wavered while continuing to pray, have faith, and believe the best. Now I feel like the pieces are coming together and could really tell the story that Gabriel IS alive.

 

[BeanE]

Exclusive: Baby Gabriel search focused on missing green bag

Posted on February 12, 2010 at 8:31 AM
Updated today at 9:31 AM

But there reportedly was one item investigators could not find: a green diaper bag that belonged to Gabriel Johnson. Of course, the 8-month-old was missing too.
snip

A joint investigation involving authorities in San Antonio and Arizona led to a portion of the Tessman Road Landfill being roped off.

snip

That's where sources said police are looking for a green diaper bag or suitcase that could contain the child's body.

snip

KENS 5 has learned that police have evidence of communication between the Smiths and Johnson while she was in San Antonio.

According to sources, they allegedly were discussing ways to conduct an illegal adoption. But police reportedly have not been able to conclude that such an adoption ever happened.

Sources said police did find witnesses who saw Johnson shopping without Gabriel the day she abandoned her grandfather's vehicle at a south-side Motel 6.

snip

Police have said the mother was uncooperative. She reportedly said Gabriel was given to a couple in a San Antonio park.

But sources said subsequent questioning of the toddler's mother revealed inconsistencies in her story. Plus, investigators allegedly believe the missing child's story garnered so much national media attention that it's peculiar that they have not received any reports of sightings of Gabriel.

As a result, investigators reportedly think the child really could be a capital murder victim and unthinkably was tossed away like garbage.

http://www.kens5.com/news/Exclusive...-bag-with-Gabriel-Johnsons-body-84220907.html

 

[vjlaw]

I am in the midwest. The only national attention comes from Nancy Grace. So when they say national attention, it would have to be if they saw it on Nancy Grace. So I don't have a lot of confidence LE believing people are aware. Since this is illegal, I just can't see people coming forward.

 

[MCDRAW]

I think EJ sold him, maybe I am really just hoping she did. They only thing, I don't know why she wouldn't just tell instead of letting them think she had killed him. If I were her I wouldn't want a murder charge. You would think her family would be putting pressure on her to tell the truth.

 

[Boo Scout]

I think EJ sold him, maybe I am really just hoping she did. They only thing, I don't know why she wouldn't just tell instead of letting them think she had killed him. If I were her I wouldn't want a murder charge. You would think her family would be putting pressure on her to tell the truth.

Maybe EJ thinks that they'll never charge her with murder b/c there wouldn't be a body found, and maybe she thinks that she'll incriminate herself further on her current charges by talking about selling her baby vs giving him away.

 

[DaneBramage]

I think EJ sold him, maybe I am really just hoping she did. They only thing, I don't know why she wouldn't just tell instead of letting them think she had killed him. If I were her I wouldn't want a murder charge. You would think her family would be putting pressure on her to tell the truth.

A. To keep the knife in LM and keep twisting it.

B. To prevent LE from finding G and getting him back to LM, and to avoid the legal ramifications.

C. Maybe maybe not.

 

[b4e]

A. To keep the knife in LM and keep twisting it.

B. To prevent LE from finding G and getting him back to LM, and to avoid the legal ramifications.

C. Maybe maybe not.

BBM. Sending LE on a wild goose chase (or forcing them, by her statement, to dig in a landfill) could definitely be an attempt to keep them from stumbling onto the real truth of what happened to Gabe. MOO.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I have read here everyday without posting very much because I just did not know what to think.

I am now thinking that Baby Gabriel is alive and TS and JS know exactly where he is. I also think that anything TS knows, JS knows as well. They are both in it up to their eyeballs, IMO.

I think EJ wanted Logan to think Baby Gabriel was dead so that he would not go looking for an 'alive' Gabriel. EJ knew that her leaving and being out of Logan's life would probably not hurt him very much, so she knew that if she told him about 'Gabriel's little blue body' that it would hurt him to the core, and it has.

If I go back and look at just the bare facts in this case, then the above conclusion is what I come to.

IMO, EJ, TS, and JS know where Baby Gabriel is. (and of course, whomever has him) We do not see them crying and mourning Gabriel. They are not because they know he is not dead. Just what I am thinking, tho.

MOO

 

[Gin]

I have read here everyday without posting very much because I just did not know what to think.

I am now thinking that Baby Gabriel is alive and TS and JS know exactly where he is. I also think that anything TS knows, JS knows as well. They are both in it up to their eyeballs, IMO.

I think EJ wanted Logan to think Baby Gabriel was dead so that he would not go looking for an 'alive' Gabriel. EJ knew that her leaving and being out of Logan's life would probably not hurt him very much, so she knew that if she told him about 'Gabriel's little blue body' that it would hurt him to the core, and it has.

If I go back and look at just the bare facts in this case, then the above conclusion is what I come to.

IMO, EJ, TS, and JS know where Baby Gabriel is. (and of course, whomever has him) We do not see them crying and mourning Gabriel. They are not because they know he is not dead. Just what I am thinking, tho.

MOO

I think there is a good chance you are correct about all the involved individuals. (And maybe not too far down the road we'll be able to substitute the possibly quite accurate term, co-conspirators for the more diplomatic term, involved.)
Whenever I think of the dozens of times TS was being "interviewed", she just seemed to ooze an extremely high level of comfort combined with obnoxious, smirky happiness. It was just bizarre. Her attitude and behaviors point to her knowing something big about Gabriel's whereabouts.

And if TS knows (and I think she does) EJ and JS know, too.

 

[dizzylou]

I think there is a good chance you are correct about all the involved individuals. (And maybe not too far down the road we'll be able to substitute the possibly quite accurate term, co-conspirators for the more diplomatic term, involved.)
Whenever I think of the dozens of times TS was being "interviewed", she just seemed to ooze an extremely high level of comfort combined with obnoxious, smirky happiness. It was just bizarre. Her attitude and behaviors point to her knowing something big about Gabriel's whereabouts.

And if TS knows (and I think she does) EJ and JS know, too.

I'm thinking along these lines, too...

 

[Silvahalo]

New to this site so pardon me if this was already posted, likely is, you all really got it together here .
myspacefindbabygabriel

Some people are convinced baby Gabriel is dead, that those of us who keep hope are living in "la-la land". Well, La-La land will work for me. I'm so sick of reading on dead and/or missing babies. IF I'm living in denial for awhile not going to hurt anyone, well, maybe just me down the road, but I'll cope.

I refuse to play in to this mad woman's games and her obvious need to be face first in the media. *F* HER. She's a criminal a cold-hearted *B*. She can rot in prison for all I care, I'll sit and wait to see what has come of baby Gabriel, even if this case comes to a cold stand-still, I will keep a flame for him going. Call it my way of saying he will always be remembere regardless of what has come to him, and it will stand for all children who have found their lives stolen in the same manner. Far more than I can say for Eliza*B* I plan to forget her face, her name and all her BS as soon as I can.

The way I see it, we can just put Gabriel away and add him to the countless others gone missing and presume him dead or we can keep a part of our hearts open for him. It's not an easy thing to do but who's to say for certain he's not alive? and tho I realize we may never know, and that prospect is maddening, I'll keep an eternal flame of hope for Gabriel just the same.