Theories

[reddress58]

I tried it, and it's really quite good. No added sugar, but still very sweet. Quite tasty. My daughter buys it as a coffeehouse treat for my 2 yo granddaughter, who loves it. (We sometimes meet at SBx, Bruegals, etc. to chat, rest while shopping, etc., and indulge in expensive caffeine, which is not appropriate for my little sweetie. And since Nana is paying ::sigh::, the little one gets an expensive treat, too. At least it's nutricious.

...and as we know, cost wasn't necessarily a deciding factor in the Cooper household. Thanks for this knowledge, Star.

 

[reddress58]

Because of what she posted.

I'm assuming the red liquid is wine and she outlines alcohol absorption and what not.

To me, the caffeine in the system has to be explained prior to whatever was found in her stomach: red liquid.

If it is wine, it's most likely consummed from the party before, IMO, especially since a bit of an onion is with it.

Here's how I see it. She didn't feel well the day of the party. She ate a bit and had some tea or a soft drink. IIRC, there was some sort of tiff at the party between her and BC. He goes home. She then receives a phone call later from a friend, suggested by posters here to warn her about BC reaction to learning she is going to be absent the next morning during his planned tennis match. I can see her drinking a bit of wine to calm herself before going home to confront BC.

I'm confused about her receiving a warning phone call. I thought she received a call from JA confirming painting plans. I wasn't aware someone warned her of anything. Did I miss something?

 

[reddress58]

Because of what she posted.

I'm assuming the red liquid is wine and she outlines alcohol absorption and what not.

To me, the caffeine in the system has to be explained prior to whatever was found in her stomach: red liquid.

If it is wine, it's most likely consummed from the party before, IMO, especially since a bit of an onion is with it.

Here's how I see it. She didn't feel well the day of the party. She ate a bit and had some tea or a soft drink. IIRC, there was some sort of tiff at the party between her and BC. He goes home. She then receives a phone call later from a friend, suggested by posters here to warn her about BC reaction to learning she is going to be absent the next morning during his planned tennis match. I can see her drinking a bit of wine to calm herself before going home to confront BC.

This is plausible, too. I think we need to consider what the least amount of time is necessary to kill, dress or undress (including taking off jewelry), maybe find a dumpsite on the computer (if that happened), maybe clear the garage, put car in it (or was it in the day before?), carry the body to the car, drive to dumpsite, dispose of and maybe pose the body and be at HT checkout by 6:20. (This is not taking into consideration a 4:20 trip to HT, only assuming the two known trips)

That, IMO, at least narrows it down to between 12:30am and 4:45am +/-. I guess we'd have to re-enact the above scenario and time it to make sure. I find it hard to imagine he could accomplish all of that in less time.

ETA: For the sake of politcal correctness, this theory is based on "IF" BC killed NC.

 

[water_dancing]

Again, mom's theory regarding a timeline, I think earlier in this thread, shows a more likely scenario (i.e., IIRC, killing shortly after she came home from the party).

My concern about this timeline theory is the caffeine found in her system, particularly at the level it was. It seems unlikely to me that someone would drink something with caffeine in it at that point in the evening(6-12:30) if they were planning on going to bed. It would seem more likely that with plans to run and paint in the morning and anticipating getting only 5-6 hours of sleep, she would want to assure she wouldn't have trouble fall asleep d/t the caffeine.

Does anyone have knowledge of her drinking a caffeinated beverage at the party or that she was able to sleep regardless of caffeine intake?

WD

 

[reddress58]

My concern about this timeline theory is the caffeine found in her system, particularly at the level it was. It seems unlikely to me that someone would drink something with caffeine in it at that point in the evening(6-12:30) if they were planning on going to bed. It would seem more likely that with plans to run and paint in the morning and anticipating getting only 5-6 hours of sleep, she would want to assure she wouldn't have trouble fall asleep d/t the caffeine.

Does anyone have knowledge of her drinking a caffeinated beverage at the party or that she was able to sleep regardless of caffeine intake?

WD

The caffeine is the stickler for me, too.

 

[momto3kids]

The caffeine is the stickler for me, too.

Caffeine has a life of approx. 12 hours. It has a half life after 3 to 12 hours. If you drink a cup of coffee in the morning and one in the evening you will have caffeine in your system every hour that day.

All of this is dependent on medications you take as well as any disease's you might have that can effect this.

If she drank tea, let's say, at the BBQ @ 6pm she would most likely have caffeine in her sytem @ 6am. So, in other words, the caffeine found could be from the evening before.

 

[justthinking2008]

Not to disrespect the deceased, but it has been noted in the affidavits that she really liked to drink wine, not saying she had a problem, as some have hinted at on the boards. I would be interested in knowing what the toxicology reports have to say regarding her blood alcohol level. Also JA says in her affidavit that she called NC around 10:30 that night, I guess cell phone records will show for sure who was the last person she spoke with that evening. I do not see her drinking coffee or tea that evening, but it is possible if she overindulged in wine, she would have needed some coffee or tea the next morning to help with a hangover. Unless by some odd chance she came home blistered and started drinking coffee to sober up and then they fought and he killed her. I hate to bring the children into this, but unfortunately Katie and Bella may be the only ones who can tell us if NC was alive that morning. I can only imagine that BC had a bad reaction to NC when she told him to go back to the store after he had just returned, so the kids might remember this. It would be interesting if one of the children said she was sleeping rather than up and about, that would be extremely telling, and a direct inconsistency with BC's story.

 

[ncsu95]

My concern about this timeline theory is the caffeine found in her system, particularly at the level it was. It seems unlikely to me that someone would drink something with caffeine in it at that point in the evening(6-12:30) if they were planning on going to bed. It would seem more likely that with plans to run and paint in the morning and anticipating getting only 5-6 hours of sleep, she would want to assure she wouldn't have trouble fall asleep d/t the caffeine.

Does anyone have knowledge of her drinking a caffeinated beverage at the party or that she was able to sleep regardless of caffeine intake?

WD

I drink caffeine before bed and have no problem going to sleep.

 

[RaleighNC]

And - for someone with a Java Jive habit - it's quite possible that it didn't impact her ability to sleep all that much - I know that I can have tea before bedtime and still fall right to sleep - same with soda. I don't drink coffee.

And - if one stops drinking alcohol at a party, then perhaps you grab a diet coke, etc.

 

[water_dancing]

And - for someone with a Java Jive habit - it's quite possible that it didn't impact her ability to sleep all that much - I know that I can have tea before bedtime and still fall right to sleep - same with soda. I don't drink coffee.

And - if one stops drinking alcohol at a party, then perhaps you grab a diet coke, etc.

I totally know it's possible. I use to be able to do the same thing and then I turned 30 and if I have caffeine after noon, I am up all night. Everyone's reaction to caffeine, like everything is individual. That is why I asked if anyone had info about NC in particular. It is just one of facts that still has me on the fence.

WD

 

[momto3kids]

And - for someone with a Java Jive habit - it's quite possible that it didn't impact her ability to sleep all that much - I know that I can have tea before bedtime and still fall right to sleep - same with soda. I don't drink coffee.

And - if one stops drinking alcohol at a party, then perhaps you grab a diet coke, etc.

I live on caffeine. I can fall asleep at any time of the day or night.

I just keep going on the fact that the ME found only a small amount of red fluid and nothing comes to mind what would be caffeine related. Knowing she liked wine it is my assumption it was wine since she had been to a party.

 

[EnvoyDriver61]

The "warning" cell phone call was someone's suppostion regarding why JA would need to call NC at 10:30, shortly after talking to BC, I think. I think it sounds plausible, but it is by no means fact.

To me, if NC had caffeine in the morning prior to her run, it would be found in the stomach, along with the red liquid.

Since I believe that the red liquid is wine from the night before, I subscribe to her having the caffeine prior to drinking wine, later in the evening.

The red liquid might be a caffeine drink and would explain caffeine in the system as well.

About the only thing I know of, and I am by no means a morning "jolt" drink expert, that is both red and has caffeine in it is that special brand of Mountain Dew that's red.

 

[water_dancing]

Not to disrespect the deceased, but it has been noted in the affidavits that she really liked to drink wine, not saying she had a problem, as some have hinted at on the boards. I would be interested in knowing what the toxicology reports have to say regarding her blood alcohol level. Also JA says in her affidavit that she called NC around 10:30 that night, I guess cell phone records will show for sure who was the last person she spoke with that evening. I do not see her drinking coffee or tea that evening, but it is possible if she overindulged in wine, she would have needed some coffee or tea the next morning to help with a hangover. Unless by some odd chance she came home blistered and started drinking coffee to sober up and then they fought and he killed her. I hate to bring the children into this, but unfortunately Katie and Bella may be the only ones who can tell us if NC was alive that morning. I can only imagine that BC had a bad reaction to NC when she told him to go back to the store after he had just returned, so the kids might remember this. It would be interesting if one of the children said she was sleeping rather than up and about, that would be extremely telling, and a direct inconsistency with BC's story.

I agree and I think that the CPD missed a very important piece of the puzzle by not have a child specialist interview the children, particularly Bella that 1st day. If BC wouldn't consent, than a CO should have been easy enough to get d/t the circumstances. They suspected him from the beginning.

WD

 

[justthinking2008]

The "warning" cell phone call was someone's suppostion regarding why JA would need to call NC at 10:30, shortly after talking to BC, I think. I think it sounds plausible, but it is by no means fact.

To me, if NC had caffeine in the morning prior to her run, it would be found in the stomach, along with the red liquid.

Since I believe that the red liquid is wine from the night before, I subscribe to her having the caffeine prior to drinking wine, later in the evening.

The red liquid might be a caffeine drink and would explain caffeine in the system as well.

About the only thing I know of, and I am by no means a morning "jolt" drink expert, that is both red and has caffeine in it is that special brand of Mountain Dew that's red.

Cheerwine is red and has caffeine, but there is no proof the liquid in her stomach contained caffeine, only the ME knows for sure, and the notes are not available yet, also who is to say the red fluid is not coffee broken down and turned red by stomach acids.

 

[justthinking2008]

WD,

I will be astonished if it comes out those children were not interviewed. The case could have been made against him in a heartbeat if the children remembered something, it would make no sense. It is probably too late now to interview the children, that would be a huge boo boo on the part of CPD.

 

[petra]

I live on caffeine. I can fall asleep at any time of the day or night.

I just keep going on the fact that the ME found only a small amount of red fluid and nothing comes to mind what would be caffeine related. Knowing she liked wine it is my assumption it was wine since she had been to a party.

red fluid= possible BBQ sauce

chocolate also has caffeine-perhaps dessert, piece of candy, chocolate covered cherry

medicines=some contain caffeine such as paracetamol/with caffine or with caffeine/codine, available OTC in UKand other Euro countries. Perhaps in Canada?? takenin the morning for hangover, headache, muscle pain,whatever

life of caffeine in system also varies by different meds, bc pill, ovulation timeframe

Just some thoughts
imo

 

[petra]

WD,

I will be astonished if it comes out those children were not interviewed. The case could have been made against him in a heartbeat if the children remembered something, it would make no sense. It is probably too late now to interview the children, that would be a huge boo boo on the part of CPD.

i referred to this earlier in the thread when CPD said no credible witness.
maybe the kids did have something to say, but difficult to confirm with a 2 and almost 4 yr old.

 

[Skittles]

IIRC, he stated she didn't even drink water and then said I don't know how she did it.

OK, I went back and listened again. Brad doesn't specifically state she doesn't drink water. He does say she doesn't drink Gatorade.

AS: Did she typically drink water or gatorade or anything before she went for a run?

BC: She doesn't drink gatorade, we don't even have Gatorade in the home. Nancy has to run on empty stomach. I don't know how she does it. She can't eat before her runs.

AS: Does she ever drink coffee before her runs?

BC: She may have, I don't know if coffee was part of her regular routine to drink before she ran.

Then there is more conversation about her coffee, the coffee maker, and Brad's coffee. After that:

AS: Did you see whether Nancy drank any coffee that morning?

BC: I don't recall if she drank coffee that morning.

AS: Do you recall whether she ate or drank anything that morning?

BC: I don't re-, no, uh, neither one of us ate anything that morning

AS: From 4:15 to 6:00 did she consume, to your knowledge, any beverages?

BC: I didn't see her drink, I didn't make a cup of coffee for her for the morning.


So, if she absolutely never, ever, drank anything before she ran, and he's telling the truth, I don't think he would have answered the way he did about coffee, he would have said she wouldn't drink it before she ran. So that leaves open the possibility that she had something: coffee, water, something that is not Gatorade.

 

[reddress58]

OK, I went back and listened again. Brad doesn't specifically state she doesn't drink water. He does say she doesn't drink Gatorade.

AS: Did she typically drink water or gatorade or anything before she went for a run?

BC: She doesn't drink gatorade, we don't even have Gatorade in the home. Nancy has to run on empty stomach. I don't know how she does it. She can't eat before her runs.

AS: Does she ever drink coffee before her runs?

BC: She may have, I don't know if coffee was part of her regular routine to drink before she ran.

Then there is more conversation about her coffee, the coffee maker, and Brad's coffee. After that:

AS: Did you see whether Nancy drank any coffee that morning?

BC: I don't recall if she drank coffee that morning.

AS: Do you recall whether she ate or drank anything that morning?

BC: I don't re-, no, uh, neither one of us ate anything that morning

AS: From 4:15 to 6:00 did she consume, to your knowledge, any beverages?

BC: I didn't see her drink, I didn't make a cup of coffee for her for the morning.


So, if she absolutely never, ever, drank anything before she ran, and he's telling the truth, I don't think he would have answered the way he did about coffee, he would have said she wouldn't drink it before she ran. So that leaves open the possibility that she had something: coffee, water, something that is not Gatorade.

Thanks , Skittles!

 

[SleuthyGal]

Not to be gross, but do we absolutely know for sure that 'red fluid' found in her stomach is not a product of decomposition? The ME didn't say what it was; he didn't speculate at all in his report.