Theory: Tammi as the Third Party to put Gabe in hiding w/couple

[BeanE]

From Lt. Mike Horn of Tempe PD in regards to convicted criminal Tammi Peters, who is also charged in this case, and her husband Jack Smith:

"We believe there was a plan in place, or being developed, for them eventually to take custody of baby Gabriel," said Lt. Mike Horn in a press conference Tuesday afternoon.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/phoenix/smith_arrest_020210

 

[fran]

I spent most of yesterday going over this case. I have a whole theory on TS and JS and EJ, but I'm busy now so can't put it all down. Plus, I'm not sure I want to, because I have a feeling THEY read here.

Anyway, IMHO, TS is the key, IMHO. She was desparate and still is. She's lied and lied and lied and only spoke the SOMEWHAT truth when confronted with contradiction by LE.

Just remember, it's TS who has the 'tie' to SA, TX. SHE's the one who got certified by that company to do her trade by the organization in SA, TX. JS, IMHO, was lying on NG when he said he didn't know if TS had even been to SA her entire life. TS is the one who had the GPS. Does she still have one? What about TS's computers at work? What about her laptop? What about JS's puters? laptop?

IMHO, LE SHOULD confiscate ALL computers for TS and JS and cell phones and cell phone records for the past year. Business or no business records, phone, equipment. This is a CRIMINAL investigation and LE KNOWS TS obstructed custody of this child from his dad.

What we don't know, we don't know.

Ya know?
fran

 

[BeanE]

I spent most of yesterday going over this case. I have a whole theory on TS and JS and EJ, but I'm busy now so can't put it all down. Plus, I'm not sure I want to, because I have a feeling THEY read here.

Anyway, IMHO, TS is the key, IMHO. She was desparate and still is. She's lied and lied and lied and only spoke the SOMEWHAT truth when confronted with contradiction by LE.

Just remember, it's TS who has the 'tie' to SA, TX. SHE's the one who got certified by that company to do her trade by the organization in SA, TX. JS, IMHO, was lying on NG when he said he didn't know if TS had even been to SA her entire life. TS is the one who had the GPS. Does she still have one? What about TS's computers at work? What about her laptop? What about JS's puters? laptop?

IMHO, LE SHOULD confiscate ALL computers for TS and JS and cell phones and cell phone records for the past year. Business or no business records, phone, equipment. This is a CRIMINAL investigation and LE KNOWS TS obstructed custody of this child from his dad.

What we don't know, we don't know.

Ya know?
fran

Hi fran. It's my understanding that TS went to school in CA and the certificate for that course was issued from the HQ which is located in SA. If anyone has a link to a credible source placing TS in SA, please post.

I don't know of TS having a GPS in relation to this case. EJ had a GPS, and that has been confirmed. If anyone has a link to a credible source regarding TPS having a GPS that relates to this case, please post.

TIA

 

[fran]

Hi fran. It's my understanding that TS went to school in CA and the certificate for that course was issued from the HQ which is located in SA. If anyone has a link to a credible source placing TS in SA, please post.

I don't know of TS having a GPS in relation to this case. EJ had a GPS, and that has been confirmed. If anyone has a link to a credible source regarding TPS having a GPS that relates to this case, please post.

TIA

BeanE..............sorry, but I'm kind of in a rush. I'm supposed to be somewhere in 1/2 hour. Probably won't be back until tonite. Anyway, it was in a NG video,..........just sec............NG transcript 01/08/2010.....TS said something like she was going somewhere and needed to get there in a hurry, so she went to program her *gps* (she used brand name, sorry) and it was dead (without battery power) and she "remembered" when they met EJ at the park she had the 'gps lit up.' That's when she went on about why she hadn't told LE before.

IMO, that was part truth, part lie. She may have thought of using her gps and 'suddenly remembered they'd given it to EJ in the park, so she could get to SA.' that part is my theory....

BeanE, I just saw your thread about the PI's statements and such and someone is transcribing a video. I didn't know all what is there, but that fits into my theory.

I read somewhere yesterday that it was TS that was frantically looking for an attorney to help them change venue. When she found out she couldn't change venue (12/23?) she CLAIMS she tried to get EJ to come back. BS....the babysitter heard EJ on the phone or was it the beauty shop? and she said, 'so what am I supposed to do, come back?'

TS went to too much trouble to give up. IMHO, TS IS THE THIRD party and someone is holding Gabriel for her!

I'm ALMOST certain of it. Then after I read that the PI doesn't think he was 'adopted' it makes me believe even more that TS is behind the whole thing!

JMHO
fran

 

[pittsburghgirl]

From Lt. Mike Horn of Tempe PD in regards to convicted criminal Tammi Peters, who is also charged in this case, and her husband Jack Smith:

"We believe there was a plan in place, or being developed, for them eventually to take custody of baby Gabriel," said Lt. Mike Horn in a press conference Tuesday afternoon.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/phoenix/smith_arrest_020210

Clearly, we are beginning to see why TS was indicted. And LE is thinking what many of us thought from the beginning: that there was no way TS was going to give up "her" baby. One dead giveaway is the mixture of truth and lies we are uncovering as the PI and LE are unraveling what happened.

And great post, Fran. ETA: If we are right, I am looking forward to TS spending many years in prison for what she's done.

 

[Litlred]

I spent most of yesterday going over this case. I have a whole theory on TS and JS and EJ, but I'm busy now so can't put it all down. Plus, I'm not sure I want to, because I have a feeling THEY read here.

Anyway, IMHO, TS is the key, IMHO. She was desparate and still is. She's lied and lied and lied and only spoke the SOMEWHAT truth when confronted with contradiction by LE.

Just remember, it's TS who has the 'tie' to SA, TX. SHE's the one who got certified by that company to do her trade by the organization in SA, TX. JS, IMHO, was lying on NG when he said he didn't know if TS had even been to SA her entire life. TS is the one who had the GPS. Does she still have one? What about TS's computers at work? What about her laptop? What about JS's puters? laptop?

IMHO, LE SHOULD confiscate ALL computers for TS and JS and cell phones and cell phone records for the past year. Business or no business records, phone, equipment. This is a CRIMINAL investigation and LE KNOWS TS obstructed custody of this child from his dad.

What we don't know, we don't know.

Ya know?
fran

I agree. Per NG transcripts from 1/8/10 I see where TPS says that the GPS in EJ's car was a Garmin. How in the world would she know its a Garmin? You would have to be on top of the GPS unit in the dark to know it was a Garmin.

 

[kissdegirl]

Going over some things in my head, and puting them down here for reference.

The babysitter AU said EJ was on the phone with a woman she called her grandmother and that the woman on the other end was yelling at EJ (maybe because EJ hired a babysitter, who knows). If this was indeed TS, then I think it says a lot for her character to rage over the phone like that. She has tried to come across as so innocent, and smiling in interviews, and laughing off the evidence that points to her involvement, but we got another taste of her anger after her release from jail when she gave LM the threat to "be watching". I wonder, if the handoff at the park occured, and the couple that took the baby were threatened after the fact not to come forward. Perhaps they have A LOT to lose if they were to give information that would find him (either turning him in themselves, or turning in TS). I imagine that TS would have some kind of evidence against them, or a threat that if they turn in Gabriel, she will turn them in and they will also be charged. I personally think these people are like-minded with TS. I think they feel they did the right thing, but also, if they've thought about giving him back, they are also fearful of the outcome of that decision. So many things could have been promised to this couple in the beginning, like money or being told they are "doing the right thing", but I wonder if they have been threatened since then? Hopefully, they have proof of this threat so they can turn it in with Gabriel today.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Nice job MomT and I don't know what the laws are in Louisiana re: adoption but I do believe their laws there are much different than most states being Louisiana is under some kind of French law. I'm no expert on it but I recall something different about Louisiana and I will have to look it up.

BBM:
Litlred, I am from Louisiana and we are under the same criminal laws as the rest of the United States. The adoption laws here are also the same.

Louisiana is known for having some CIVIL archaic laws on the books that do stem from the old French law.

I'm sorry. I do know you are serious in your wondering about that, but it just isn't so.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I agree. Per NG transcripts from 1/8/10 I see where TPS says that the GPS in EJ's car was a Garmin. How in the world would she know its a Garmin? You would have to be on top of the GPS unit in the dark to know it was a Garmin.

Maybe TPS knows it is a Garmin because she may have given it to her. I have always thought TPS was and is involved here.

It is just my opinion, but I still believe that TPS knows where Gabriel is and had plans to get him when/if this ever died down. I still think she will attempt it when Elizabeth goes to prison and after she herself (TPS) has served whatever time she will have to serve. Of course she and Jack would have to move unless she is on probation. TPS is like a dog with a bone, IMO, and will not give up on having Gabriel even after years have passed. Let's say TPS has to serve 5 years. She would get out with the 'good time law' (serving one day for 2 days credit if on good behavior) in 2.5 years. Let's say that she was placed on probation for an additional 2.5 years. Gabriel would still be a child when she could legally move away and get him.

*I think Gabriel is alive.

 

[kappy50]

BeanE..............sorry, but I'm kind of in a rush. I'm supposed to be somewhere in 1/2 hour. Probably won't be back until tonite. Anyway, it was in a NG video,..........just sec............NG transcript 01/08/2010.....TS said something like she was going somewhere and needed to get there in a hurry, so she went to program her *gps* (she used brand name, sorry) and it was dead (without battery power) and she "remembered" when they met EJ at the park she had the 'gps lit up.' That's when she went on about why she hadn't told LE before.

IMO, that was part truth, part lie. She may have thought of using her gps and 'suddenly remembered they'd given it to EJ in the park, so she could get to SA.' that part is my theory....

BeanE, I just saw your thread about the PI's statements and such and someone is transcribing a video. I didn't know all what is there, but that fits into my theory.

I read somewhere yesterday that it was TS that was frantically looking for an attorney to help them change venue. When she found out she couldn't change venue (12/23?) she CLAIMS she tried to get EJ to come back. BS....the babysitter heard EJ on the phone or was it the beauty shop? and she said, 'so what am I supposed to do, come back?'

TS went to too much trouble to give up. IMHO, TS IS THE THIRD party and someone is holding Gabriel for her!

I'm ALMOST certain of it. Then after I read that the PI doesn't think he was 'adopted' it makes me believe even more that TS is behind the whole thing!

JMHO
fran

I'm not good at finding the NG trans. But at one time EJ/TS met in a "park"..When did this happen ???

 

[fran]

I'm not good at finding the NG trans. But at one time EJ/TS met in a "park"..When did this happen ???

T&J had Gabriel from 12/9 to 12/18 (or 12/17?). EJ told them she wanted to take Gabriel for a visit with his dad. They met her at a park, allegedly a park EJ determined. They did the baby exchange there.

Allegedly, this is when EJ took off for SA. TS claims the next thing they know, they get an email from EJ that she's sorry, she's on the run and she and Gabriel are ok.

Recall, Logan was due a visit on 12/18, and when he went to EJ's trailer home he found out she had disappeared with the baby.

HTH
fran

 

[BeanE]

I'm not good at finding the NG trans. But at one time EJ/TS met in a "park"..When did this happen ???

Do you mean where those pics in the park were taken, kappy?

 

[BeanE]

T&J had Gabriel from 12/9 to 12/18 (or 12/17?). EJ told them she wanted to take Gabriel for a visit with his dad. They met her at a park, allegedly a park EJ determined. They did the baby exchange there.

Allegedly, this is when EJ took off for SA. TS claims the next thing they know, they get an email from EJ that she's sorry, she's on the run and she and Gabriel are ok.

Recall, Logan was due a visit on 12/18, and when he went to EJ's trailer home he found out she had disappeared with the baby.

HTH
fran

- until 12/18
- They met at a church parking lot designated by EJ for the exchange.
- Logan's visit was due 12/20. That's the day he went to get Gabe at the trailer and found them gone.

We have a case calendar and inside the link for each event is the event description. In there you'll find links to the supporting source reference for each event. It's a handy way to grab the dates as well as quickly grab some details.

This will take you to the month of December:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?s=&c=6&week=&month=12&year=2009

 

[Prof]

I wish EJ would have said "You know I don't know their names, Bi@tch! But the code phrase was "Hosanna Hallelujah Taco!" "Shack & Tammi told me to tell you "green is better than blue!" :wink:

lol MomT -- for all we know EJ might have said something like this to Tammi
As soon as Tammi released this story about the EJ phone call I assumed most of it was fabricated - Tammi still needing to be in control

Tammi threw out yet another threat in that story -- Tammi has threatened both Logan and EJ publically, on video -- I am still amazed by rewatching the uncut video of her leaving jail and telling Logan that he better "be watching"
Watching what, Tammi? more coded internet posts?


Someone needs more creed in her deed

 

[kappy50]

lol MomT -- for all we know EJ might have said something like this to Tammi
As soon as Tammi released this story about the EJ phone call I assumed most of it was fabricated - Tammi still needing to be in control

Tammi threw out yet another threat in that story -- Tammi has threatened both Logan and EJ publically, on video -- I am still amazed by rewatching the uncut video of her leaving jail and telling Logan that he better "be watching"
Watching what, Tammi? more coded internet posts?


Someone needs more creed in her deed

The fact of the matter that she makes threats like this concerns me. Because if she is the third party....that definately concerns me....

 

[artsy1]

I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread to develop a profile for the couple in the park who took Gabe. It's based totally on the assumption that EJ was telling the truth about giving Gabe to a couple that a trusted 3rd party set up. All ideas about who the couple are, how they got involved, etc. to try to figure out who they are are welcome.


My assumptions here are based on this belief: that EJ had intended to set herself up in SA long enough to get LM's parental rights terminated so that she could give Gabe to TayJay. When whatever happened changed those plans, TPS sent a couple to SA to pick up Gabe so that EJ could leave town.


1) I think the couple has to be someone TPS knows and trusts (and figures wouldn't turn her in) - most likely a fellow church member (are there couples in her church that she seems particularly close to?) or family.

2) I believe they live in the Scottsdale, AZ vacinity, since I think TPS would have needed to talk to them in person about going to get Gabe. And if this is the case, then Gabe is probably back in AZ.

3) I think the couple arrived in San Antonio the day before they met EJ in the park. If so, I would canvas hotels near the park for a couple who stayed only 1 night and fit the description given by EJ.

4) I suspect the couple would have driven out instead of trying to find a last minute flight during the Christmas holiday. If so, I would canvas the gas stations and rest stops along the same route EJ took for any sightings.

5) If the couple are members of TPS's church, I would question the congregation about a couple who either: a) suddenly showed up with a baby or b) stopped coming to church (or possibly don't come as a couple anymore).

6) I would guess that if this couple had an active social life before Christmas, that they are now more reclusive.

7) With the way TPS shows she needs to be in control of all situations, I would believe that she is somehow keeping tabs on the couple and on Gabe (ie spying on them at parks, grocery stores, etc. perhaps).

8) Because I believe this arrangement was supposed to be short term, but has turned long term with additional expenses for a baby's needs, does there seem to be some a lot of money going from TPS's bank accounts as either cash or to the same people again and again? Or, if the church supporting members who gave a false story about why they needed money?

I had more assumptions earlier today, but I've forgotten them (still haven't had coffee yet this morning!) and will post as I remember. In the meantime, please post your own assumptions. We may just hit on a piece of the puzzle that LM is missing in order to bring his son home to him!

Let's find this couple and bring Gabriel home where he belongs!

 

[danisisa]

I was thinking about the most recent court images, and something stuck out at me. TS's hair has faded brown on the ends. So I thought more about all the interviews and her hair was really dark in those interviews. Well, one thing, I know alot about hair color, is when you bleach your hair blond, and then dye it again, it will fade. So, i noticed her hair got shorter and shorter. Where the faded brown is would be equivalent to the five months worth of growth. What if the couple was wearing sunglasses, TS could easily change her voice and appearance. EJ would never know. What if JS stayed at the hotel or vehicle with H when the hand off took place. Maybe, TS made EJ think there was another couple involved, when in fact it was her. TS and JS were in the entertainment business, so I have no doubt that they can change their apprearances with facial addons and makeup.

I don't want to post anymore about this because of G's safety.

 

[kappy50]

I was thinking about the most recent court images, and something stuck out at me. TS's hair has faded brown on the ends. So I thought more about all the interviews and her hair was really dark in those interviews. Well, one thing, I know alot about hair color, is when you bleach your hair blond, and then dye it again, it will fade. So, i noticed her hair got shorter and shorter. Where the faded brown is would be equivalent to the five months worth of growth. What if the couple was wearing sunglasses, TS could easily change her voice and appearance. EJ would never know. What if JS stayed at the hotel or vehicle with H when the hand off took place. Maybe, TS made EJ think there was another couple involved, when in fact it was her. TS and JS were in the entertainment business, so I have no doubt that they can change their apprearances with facial addons and makeup.

I don't want to post anymore about this because of G's safety.

D...good points. But I can remember, and I'd have to go back to the case calendar....that the Smith's house was searched on the 27th and TS was there. Now, that's not to say, if one flew in they flew home, which would seem a short flight...Not knowing what time the search was it would be hard to say....someone else could have followed in a car with GB...

 

[fran]

D...good points. But I can remember, and I'd have to go back to the case calendar....that the Smith's house was searched on the 27th and TS was there. Now, that's not to say, if one flew in they flew home, which would seem a short flight...Not knowing what time the search was it would be hard to say....someone else could have followed in a car with GB...

Ahaa! I forgot about the search of 12/27. Good point!

fran

 

[fran]

I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread to develop a profile for the couple in the park who took Gabe. It's based totally on the assumption that EJ was telling the truth about giving Gabe to a couple that a trusted 3rd party set up. All ideas about who the couple are, how they got involved, etc. to try to figure out who they are are welcome.


My assumptions here are based on this belief: that EJ had intended to set herself up in SA long enough to get LM's parental rights terminated so that she could give Gabe to TayJay. When whatever happened changed those plans, TPS sent a couple to SA to pick up Gabe so that EJ could leave town.


1) I think the couple has to be someone TPS knows and trusts (and figures wouldn't turn her in) - most likely a fellow church member (are there couples in her church that she seems particularly close to?) or family.

2) I believe they live in the Scottsdale, AZ vacinity, since I think TPS would have needed to talk to them in person about going to get Gabe. And if this is the case, then Gabe is probably back in AZ.

3) I think the couple arrived in San Antonio the day before they met EJ in the park. If so, I would canvas hotels near the park for a couple who stayed only 1 night and fit the description given by EJ.

4) I suspect the couple would have driven out instead of trying to find a last minute flight during the Christmas holiday. If so, I would canvas the gas stations and rest stops along the same route EJ took for any sightings.

5) If the couple are members of TPS's church, I would question the congregation about a couple who either: a) suddenly showed up with a baby or b) stopped coming to church (or possibly don't come as a couple anymore).

6) I would guess that if this couple had an active social life before Christmas, that they are now more reclusive.

7) With the way TPS shows she needs to be in control of all situations, I would believe that she is somehow keeping tabs on the couple and on Gabe (ie spying on them at parks, grocery stores, etc. perhaps).

8) Because I believe this arrangement was supposed to be short term, but has turned long term with additional expenses for a baby's needs, does there seem to be some a lot of money going from TPS's bank accounts as either cash or to the same people again and again? Or, if the church supporting members who gave a false story about why they needed money?

I had more assumptions earlier today, but I've forgotten them (still haven't had coffee yet this morning!) and will post as I remember. In the meantime, please post your own assumptions. We may just hit on a piece of the puzzle that LM is missing in order to bring his son home to him!

Let's find this couple and bring Gabriel home where he belongs!

I was wondering the same thing about money outflows.

Another thing I'd like to add is,......IF there was some way to find out WHO the notary was that allegedly notarized the signatures on the document EJ gave T & J, giving them custody of Gabriel. LE said it was notarized.

IF there was some way to talk to the notary and see if they've used her services before. MAYBE T & J think THAT document COULD be their key to EVENTUALLY gaining permanent custody of Gabriel. But anyway, speaking to anyone that has had previous dealings with this couple COULD produce an unknown contact.

JMHO
fran