JM is back on mind as a possibility. A person she entrusted in. Since she is a professional EJ could of trusted JM. Who knows the definite first time TS asked JM to call EJ. They could of been talking all of December trying to find a way to make Gabriel's adoption with TS legal. They could of bonded, she could trust her and who else would know of couple who may have not been able to adopt in the past.
Theory: EJ gave Gabe to someone she entrusted who has him in hiding
- Thread starter TXHOPE
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TS and JS lie detector tests were both inconclusive which to me means they know some of what happened but not everything. Maybe they know who the 3rd party person is, they just don't know who the couple is or where Gabriel is at.
Oh trust me I think she's part of it but I don't know if she knows where Gabriel is now.
I'm sorry, I just got that from the case calendar...
BeanE
Inactive
It has the 26th in a court document or LE report I think, but there was a news video where Logan said it was the 22nd, and I got the idea the court document was a typo because the 22nd just makes a lot more sense. But until somebody comes across that video again, we're stuck with the 26th as the calendar reference.
consider me on a mission then...because on the case calendar it shows TS & JM calling EJ on the 26th trying to get her to come back for the court hearing on Monday. Now that would have been a 14 hour trip backat least. I don't quite buy that...
BeanE
Inactive
Kappy, I'm so sorry. I meant the text from Tammi to Logan I think was on the 22nd.
Ok, I'm going to add to my original theory (which was somewhere in another thread in the first few posts I ever made on here).
I posted at that time that I believed TPS had set the whole thing up and that Gabriel was being held by someone she set up to hide him until she could bring him home with her. But the publicity got too out of hand so the return of Gabriel to TPS hasn't been able to happen.
IMHO, I think some things are starting to come together. I still stick by my original theory that someone TPS knows (or is related to) has Gabriel in hiding. She fought too hard to get Gabriel in the first place to just let him go. And she just is never upset about no one knowing where he is - she just gets that smug smirk on her face as if SHE knows exactly where he is.
As I've said earlier in another thread, I think EJ got the expensive ring from TPS - especially since it has her birthstone (too coincidental to get it from a stranger). I think that TPS saw it as payment for the baby, but that if things came crashing down on her, would tell authorities that EJ STOLE it from her, because there's a part of TPS that doesn't trust EJ to keep quiet about her involvement in the disappearance.
I think in reverse, EJ kept the journal of what transpired because SHE didn't fully trust TPS. I think that EJ considered that if she was caught at some point in time, she wasn't going down alone, and kept a journal of important details about what happened so she could take TPS down with her if she goes away.
And I have to wonder if during one of EJ and TPS's conversations, that EJ didn't tell her about the journal, and that when LM's car was broken into and the GPS and paperwork were taken, that someone wasn't looking for the journal to get rid of anything that would tie TPS to Gabriel's diappearance.
I believe that TPS DID arrange everything, and that the reason EJ stayed in a hotel known for being involved in illegal adoptions was designed by TPS (since she's so much smarter than us all, don't ya know) to throw LE off the track to start hunting for an adoptive couple instead of looking for friends or relatives of TPS who in reality have Gabriel.
Same thought with the text messages EJ sent to LM about killing Gabriel - I think EJ thought she would throw LE off track by getting them to look for a dead baby. (And because TX is a death penalty state, I think EJ kept the journal show that she really didn't kill him.)
And I think that TPS's constantly trying to get LE to tell her what they know is her just trying to control the situation and find out how much EJ might have said or how much evidence they have about her own involvement.
As far as the HG, I think he's a friend or relative of TPS as well, who was sent to stay close to EJ and make sure she did exactly what she was told to do, since I do think TPS realizes that with EJ's temper, that she might of messed up the whole plan. But with someone keeping tabs on EJ, there would be less chance of that happening.
I also think that EJ's visit to the Laundromat is connected to the doctor who lives across the street. I think TPS wanted Gabriel checked out to make sure that he was well, since I'm sure she had heard the allegations that EJ wasn't taking good care of Gabriel, or perhaps even TPS saw something with Gabriel that didn't seem right when she had him the end of November/early December. And perhaps EJ may have been pacing nervous because she was afraid that the doctor would find something that would lead her to believe that EJ had abused him.
As far as whoever has Gabriel not coming forward, I believe they had expected to have been contacted by TPS a long time ago for the hand off, and of course, TPS cannot contact them now without LE finding out. And I think the couple who are watching him had no clue what the REAL story was and aren't coming forward now because 1) they don't want to get in trouble and/or 2) are afraid of TayJay and know their coming forward would get TayJay into big legal troubles and don't want to suffer the consequences.
So that's my thoughts on it all. Just a theory, but to me, it makes sense. :twocents:
ETA: And even though I take what TPS says with a grain of salt, there seems to be a bit of truth in everything. So I have to really ask myself why she would have even publicly said that EJ told her in a jailhouse phone call "you set this whole thing up" if it didn't happen?
I posted at that time that I believed TPS had set the whole thing up and that Gabriel was being held by someone she set up to hide him until she could bring him home with her. But the publicity got too out of hand so the return of Gabriel to TPS hasn't been able to happen.
IMHO, I think some things are starting to come together. I still stick by my original theory that someone TPS knows (or is related to) has Gabriel in hiding. She fought too hard to get Gabriel in the first place to just let him go. And she just is never upset about no one knowing where he is - she just gets that smug smirk on her face as if SHE knows exactly where he is.
As I've said earlier in another thread, I think EJ got the expensive ring from TPS - especially since it has her birthstone (too coincidental to get it from a stranger). I think that TPS saw it as payment for the baby, but that if things came crashing down on her, would tell authorities that EJ STOLE it from her, because there's a part of TPS that doesn't trust EJ to keep quiet about her involvement in the disappearance.
I think in reverse, EJ kept the journal of what transpired because SHE didn't fully trust TPS. I think that EJ considered that if she was caught at some point in time, she wasn't going down alone, and kept a journal of important details about what happened so she could take TPS down with her if she goes away.
And I have to wonder if during one of EJ and TPS's conversations, that EJ didn't tell her about the journal, and that when LM's car was broken into and the GPS and paperwork were taken, that someone wasn't looking for the journal to get rid of anything that would tie TPS to Gabriel's diappearance.
I believe that TPS DID arrange everything, and that the reason EJ stayed in a hotel known for being involved in illegal adoptions was designed by TPS (since she's so much smarter than us all, don't ya know) to throw LE off the track to start hunting for an adoptive couple instead of looking for friends or relatives of TPS who in reality have Gabriel.
Same thought with the text messages EJ sent to LM about killing Gabriel - I think EJ thought she would throw LE off track by getting them to look for a dead baby. (And because TX is a death penalty state, I think EJ kept the journal show that she really didn't kill him.)
And I think that TPS's constantly trying to get LE to tell her what they know is her just trying to control the situation and find out how much EJ might have said or how much evidence they have about her own involvement.
As far as the HG, I think he's a friend or relative of TPS as well, who was sent to stay close to EJ and make sure she did exactly what she was told to do, since I do think TPS realizes that with EJ's temper, that she might of messed up the whole plan. But with someone keeping tabs on EJ, there would be less chance of that happening.
I also think that EJ's visit to the Laundromat is connected to the doctor who lives across the street. I think TPS wanted Gabriel checked out to make sure that he was well, since I'm sure she had heard the allegations that EJ wasn't taking good care of Gabriel, or perhaps even TPS saw something with Gabriel that didn't seem right when she had him the end of November/early December. And perhaps EJ may have been pacing nervous because she was afraid that the doctor would find something that would lead her to believe that EJ had abused him.
As far as whoever has Gabriel not coming forward, I believe they had expected to have been contacted by TPS a long time ago for the hand off, and of course, TPS cannot contact them now without LE finding out. And I think the couple who are watching him had no clue what the REAL story was and aren't coming forward now because 1) they don't want to get in trouble and/or 2) are afraid of TayJay and know their coming forward would get TayJay into big legal troubles and don't want to suffer the consequences.
So that's my thoughts on it all. Just a theory, but to me, it makes sense. :twocents:
ETA: And even though I take what TPS says with a grain of salt, there seems to be a bit of truth in everything. So I have to really ask myself why she would have even publicly said that EJ told her in a jailhouse phone call "you set this whole thing up" if it didn't happen?
BeanE
Inactive
*bump*
a little o/t..but I am still green here... what does "bump" mean ??Like a bump in the road??? thx's
YellowSubmarine
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Kappy: Bumping up a thread or a post as a reminder or refresher
BeanE
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There has been a lot of talk in some of the other threads about the assumption that no one would risk their own freedom to hide Gabriel for EJ for this long and therefore he must be dead. I don't buy that. I believe that whoever has Gabriel is hiding him because they strongly believe they are doing the best thing for him. They were probably fed a bunch of lies by EJ to get them to believe that Gabe was in danger. I believe TPS may have helped EJ find these people, or EJ may have received help from a shelter. There are documented cases of underground organizations who are willing to risk everything because of what they believe in. They are fanatics. That is why Gabriel is still missing 4 mos. later. They are not going to turn him in. Someone will have to find him.
noopy
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This supposed "couple" could be fanatics. But what about EJ?? She seems to be a selfish type, and she seems to dislike jail more and more... and she would rather die herself than giveup Gabe? Why? To protect Gabe from Logan or custody disputes?? I don't think she's that selfless or loving to give her life to protect Gabe... To spite Logan?? I think hating Logan may be a 2nd priority when it comes to her own life (she claims she's going to die soon right from starvation), or her own freedom (20+ yrs in jail). The fact that she is not talking is the key concern that makes me think she hurt Gabe. Otherwise, she'd talk by now out of pure selfishness to save herself, if it means betraying this couple, Tammi Smith, Gabriel or her own relatives, so be it. That's why I don't think this "couple" exists.
BeanE
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I've only seen a little bit of talk that no one would risk their freedom
I agree about the couple.People who follow Gabe's case closely and especially those who have seen the depth of irrational fanaticism among, let's just say those who were attacking Gabe's FB, understand how that kind of skewed thinking could lead someone or some couple to cross the line into doing the unthinkable - stealing and keeping a baby.
If you review the rhetoric of these people, you also see that criminal acts are just fine with them - they not only put out the message that felonies are fine but that, in their warped minds, most people would commit them. That's scary. But if you examine this almost cult-like criminal mentality, you can see how this type of person would indeed assist in kidnapping a baby. The safety, well-being, and best interests of that baby are meaningless to them. Their irrational beliefs, and their own self-interests are what's paramount to them.
Yes, people like that would most definitely assist in kidnapping a baby, whether it's keeping the baby themself, or assisting in the arrangements to do - withholding information on his whereabouts that could lead to his rescue, providing money, clothing, food, housing, etc, to the baby and/or whatever person or couple is currently holding him.
So far as an underground shelter goes, I believe you're referring to domestic violence shelters. I haven't seen any indication that Elizabeth sought help from any domestic violence shelter, except that one reference from Tammi. My understanding is that Elizabeth sought help from other types of women's organizations and shelters, and that that was only to get herself and Gabe set up to live in San Antonio - help with getting an apartment, job, food, etc.
If Elizabeth did seek help from a domestic violence shelter, particularly one of the underground ones, they'd have turned her down flat. Elizabeth was the abuser, not the abused, and she would have no way of corroborating a claim that anyone was abusing her or Gabe.
DVSs are generally poor organizations, geared toward helping women in imminent danger of physical harm. They have screening processes to ensure that they're putting what little money they have into helping the women with real, pressing needs. The underground shelters require proof in the way of court documents to show the woman has tried traditional means to get protection, and that the courts were not responsive.
Elizabeth had nothing, because Elizabeth was not abused by anyone. The only court records and police reports, as well as numerous witness reports, show clearly that she was the abuser, and that she was abusing both Logan and Gabe. No DVS will take in an abuser.
I make no claim to be an expert on DV, but I did volunteer work in it for years.
BeanE
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I don't think someone of Ken Gamble's caliber would go on the air and claim the couple exists unless he had very strong reason to think so, and to back it up. MOO
DairyGirl
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To play devils advocate, I can see EJ going to the trouble of making these people seem to exist for her own purpose. She is very intelligent and could have been leaving a false trail for her own protection. I hope that's not what she did but as time goes on it gets more discouraging. You wouldn't think one person could cover their tracks so well but EJ seems to have done that.
It may have been a help center that helps people who are going through child custody issues that help with things like marriage & family counseling referrals, attorney & arbitration referrals, how to build your case support, how to prepare to see your attorney, how to present yourself for court and provide information on family & domestic violence resource. Some of these places assist with an attorney. Schools sometimes give out their phone #s to parents who are in need.
kissdegirl
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That says enough to me....it's not some imagined couple by EJ to throw everyone off. Afterall....she wasn't suppose to get caught! If you think you're "home free" so to speak, you don't need to create all this, nor would you bother going to these lengths.
Very strong reason. That says to me more than the journal, which I completetly believe BTW. That tells me there's more.
I hope there's something more he can find from the records they were waiting on.
