Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

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What was crucially missing from the trial, the transcript or recording of OP's Netcare call. This is another glaring omission I need to add to my list of strange anomalies of this case. jmo

"something is rotten in the state of Denmark"

I agree, Prime. This should automatically be a KEY piece of evidence! It would absolutely corroborate OP's story - or send him to prison! LOL It, plus more than a few other omissions, have been extremely troubling.
 
I concur on principal.

We must have faith in Nel's learned assessment of all the evidence and trust that he did not enter the call to Netcare into evidence because it would not be instrumental in furthering the State's case.

The fact that Roux elected NOT to enter the call to Netcare into evidence is, IMO, much more telling.

The fact that neither Nel nor Roux had the courtesy to enter the call to Netcare into evidence for our WebSleuthing benefit is simply inconsiderate. ;)

BBM

I find that rather surprising as this is not how a DT would be expected to prepare their case. They would only introduce their own evidence where necessary to rebuke a PT claim. There has been much talk about things that have/haven't been done by Roux and his team, but it must be remembered that the onus for burden of proof remains with the state. All evidence submitted by the PT is available to the DT during discovery and as such they know exactly what they're dealing with. It would not be expected for them to submit evidence against something that has never been contested as this would simply be pointless and a waste of court time.

During the trial there was nothing called into question about the Netcare call or indeed any incidents that happened after the shooting. Aside from conspiracy theories raised elsewhere, this really is a non-issue.
 
BBM

I find that rather surprising as this is not how a DT would be expected to prepare their case. They would only introduce their own evidence where necessary to rebuke a PT claim. There has been much talk about things that have/haven't been done by Roux and his team, but it must be remembered that the onus for burden of proof remains with the state. All evidence submitted by the PT is available to the DT during discovery and as such they know exactly what they're dealing with. It would not be expected for them to submit evidence against something that has never been contested as this would simply be pointless and a waste of court time.

During the trial there was nothing called into question about the Netcare call or indeed any incidents that happened after the shooting. Aside from conspiracy theories raised elsewhere, this really is a non-issue.

That's not actually how it works in practice, and that's not how it's worked in this case.

The defence are not required to prove anything, but it is obviously in their best interests to bring evidence that is supportive of their client's story.

The State accepts that Pistorius was distraught after the shooting - and yet the defence brought evidence to show that, indeed, he was distraught after the shooting.

If Netcare substantially supported OP's version, they'd have been called by the defence. No question. Conversely, if they substantially contradicted it, they'd have been called by the State. That neither called them means they can't have had much to say.

I have to say I find your suggestion that the defence wouldn't bother calling anyone who backed up OP because they don,t have to prove anything rather odd. That's obviously not how trials work, is it?
 
RSBM

I personally don't find it odd that he didn't check her pulse. He literally blew her brains out all over his toilet bowl. She was already dead and he knew it.
MOO

Everyone's sense of plausibility is of course different but.....
If I'd shot someone through a door and assumed I had killed them -I had to have I'd shot them in the head with a dum-dum, I would take those few extra moments just to double-check - regardless of the visual signs - blood, brains, gore....
Especially if I needed them to be incapable of being resuscitated.
This is the defendent who claims she breathed and did not breathe at various points and that looking for vital signs was important to him but doesn't mention pulse checking.
Pulse checking is something he would have to leave out obviously as it contradicts all his next actions.

Although I believe this crime was committed in rage, everything he did shows he has the capacity to be quite controlled in a crisis.
 
The Defence would have the court believe that Reeva, having heard OP's warnings to get down and call the police (about what, I don't know, because he never tells her) and fearing for her safety, hides in the toilet. She doesn't answer OP because she doesn't want to give away where she is. Very plausible, I'd also stay quiet in that situation, especially if I wasn't sure what was going on. Except she didn't. On OP's evidence she slammed the toilet door thus disproving the contention that she wished to conceal where she was.
 
Not challenging your more than valid points... just proffering my own :)

1. I never had a problem with Reeva going to bed the way she was dressed : short loose-fitting sports short and a tank top… I have had many girlfriends spend the night, borrowing my clothes and go to bed dressed in a very similar fashion… not systematically of course… they did enjoy spoiling me with some Victoria Secrets ! ;)

2. I don't believe that there is necessarily a correlation between body image/profession and modesty in a personal setting… from my own experience, I have dated some woman that would be considered by most as gorgeous but were nevertheless shy, modest and a bit prude.

Another totally ludicrous bit in OP's story :

- Reeva was certainly aware of OP's anxiety regarding burglars/intruders : locked bedroom door, cricket bat at the bedroom door, alarm system, handgun, etc…

- OP had asked Reeva to close and lock the balcony doors before going to sleep… she never did close and lock those doors

- OP wakes up at around 3AM… Reeva is awake beside him… it's hot, it's humid… they can't sleep… BUT Reeva witnesses OP get out of bed to close and lock the balcony doors : i.e. safety and security were paramount, above comfort from the cooler night air being blown indoors by the fans.

- Reeva gets out of bed and the very first thing she does is open the bathroom window !!! Not only is that absolutely the opposite of what OP is trying to achieve in the bedroom BUT it serves no purpose whatsoever : Reeva is going to pee… she does not even turn on any lights… she will be back in the bedroom in 2 minute tops. Plus, NO benefit whatsoever in opening the bathroom window for fresh air when your going inside the toilet cubicle.
Excellent point about the fact that OP closed the door on a hot and humid night AJ. He even said that was the reason he woke up...That doesn't make any sense what so ever!!! Why didn't Nel pick this up? Witnesses had their doors/windows open.
 
I hope this isn't considered off topic (on this thread). Not sure were to post.

OSCAR (recent) TWITTER

Oscar TWITTER LNK:

https://mobile.twitter.com/OscarPistorius

On Aug 10th, a few days after closing arguments - Oscar's twitter account posted a few new messages. The tweet at 10:48pm has a LINK to a poem by Danielle Koepke.

A few lines . . .

"darkest times, can bring us to the brightest places..."
"what seems like a curse in the moment, can actually be a blessing..."
"whatever we're battling in the moment, it will pass..."


Did he really just post this poem with these inappropriate sentiments???? . . . "What seems like a curse in the moment, can actually be a blessing."

OMG...how disrespectful to Reeva and her family/loved ones.
Again...it's ALL ABOUT OSCAR, and how he is a victim, how he will get through this traumatic event (trial, loss of sponsors & livelihood, expense, etc), and therefore posts a link to this poem.

This poem certainly does NOT express the sentiments Reeva's parents & loved ones are experiencing. I certainly don't think they'd refer to the loss of Reeva as an eventual "blessing".

This guy just doesn't think about anyone but himself, 24/7.
 
"....respectfully snipped for space"

- OP had asked Reeva to close and lock the balcony doors before going to sleep… she never did close and lock those doors

- OP wakes up at around 3AM… Reeva is awake beside him… it's hot, it's humid… they can't sleep… BUT Reeva witnesses OP get out of bed to close and lock the balcony doors : i.e. safety and security were paramount, above comfort from the cooler night air being blown indoors by the fans.

- Reeva gets out of bed and the very first thing she does is open the bathroom window !!! Not only is that absolutely the opposite of what OP is trying to achieve in the bedroom BUT it serves no purpose whatsoever : Reeva is going to pee… she does not even turn on any lights… she will be back in the bedroom in 2 minute tops. Plus, NO benefit whatsoever in opening the bathroom window for fresh air when your going inside the toilet cubicle.

That's a good point. What would be her purpose for opening the bathroom window - way down the passage & around the corner, knowing she's headed out of there in a few moments. And by opening a new window while OP is closing the open balcony doors, Reeva is taking a big chance on pi$$ him off. It's in direct defiance of what he is trying to accomplish at 3am in the morning, something he had asked her to do earlier.

I know none of it ever happened....however, it's just so interesting to look closely at some of these much smaller points (from OP's version), and realize how they simply (as Roux would say) "can not be", and therefore OP's storyline completely starts to fall apart, straw by straw.
 
I hope this isn't considered off topic (on this thread). Not sure were to post.

OSCAR (recent) TWITTER

Oscar TWITTER LNK:

https://mobile.twitter.com/OscarPistorius

On Aug 10th, a few days after closing arguments - Oscar's twitter account posted a few new messages. The tweet at 10:48pm has a LINK to a poem by Danielle Koepke.

A few lines . . .

"darkest times, can bring us to the brightest places..."
"what seems like a curse in the moment, can actually be a blessing..."
"whatever we're battling in the moment, it will pass..."


Did he really just post this poem with these inappropriate sentiments???? . . . "What seems like a curse in the moment, can actually be a blessing."

OMG...how disrespectful to Reeva and her family/loved ones.
Again...it's ALL ABOUT OSCAR, and how he is a victim, how he will get through this traumatic event (trial, loss of sponsors & livelihood, expense, etc), and therefore posts a link to this poem.

This poem certainly does NOT express the sentiments Reeva's parents & loved ones are experiencing. I certainly don't think they'd refer to the loss of Reeva as an eventual "blessing".

This guy just doesn't think about anyone but himself, 24/7.

What a self-centred monster. This guy is sick in the nastiest sense of the word.
 
BBM

I find that rather surprising as this is not how a DT would be expected to prepare their case. They would only introduce their own evidence where necessary to rebuke a PT claim. There has been much talk about things that have/haven't been done by Roux and his team, but it must be remembered that the onus for burden of proof remains with the state. All evidence submitted by the PT is available to the DT during discovery and as such they know exactly what they're dealing with. It would not be expected for them to submit evidence against something that has never been contested as this would simply be pointless and a waste of court time.

During the trial there was nothing called into question about the Netcare call or indeed any incidents that happened after the shooting. Aside from conspiracy theories raised elsewhere, this really is a non-issue.

BBM: From this lay person's vantage point, Defense did a lot of wasting of the court's time. Roger Dixon testifying on matters in which he is not an expert comes to mind. The testimony of social worker Yvette Van Schalkwyk that Oscar sincerely was very upset about the killing seemed to be a last minute scramble.

Beginning with Oscar's evasive testimony, IMO, they did not mount a vigorous defense, but rather threw everything against the wall, including intentional muddling of timelines, hoping something would stick.
 
BBM

I find that rather surprising as this is not how a DT would be expected to prepare their case. They would only introduce their own evidence where necessary to rebuke a PT claim. There has been much talk about things that have/haven't been done by Roux and his team, but it must be remembered that the onus for burden of proof remains with the state. All evidence submitted by the PT is available to the DT during discovery and as such they know exactly what they're dealing with. It would not be expected for them to submit evidence against something that has never been contested as this would simply be pointless and a waste of court time.

During the trial there was nothing called into question about the Netcare call or indeed any incidents that happened after the shooting. Aside from conspiracy theories raised elsewhere, this really is a non-issue.

You forget that this is a prima facie case. The Defence does indeed need to prove Pistorius's version of events.
 
Thought I’d listen to OP’s evidence in chief again. Fascinating! Here he tells Roux what happened shortly after arriving home...

OP: I went upstairs and got changed and showered. I got changed into my pyjamas and then I think around 7 o’clock I went downstairs and ...
Roux: Before we get there can we first deal with your iPad. Did you have access to your iPad that day, that evening?
OP: I did m’lady.
Roux: When was that?
OP: I had access to it the entire day.
Roux: I’m talking after arriving back at your house.
OP: From the time I arrived home ... Reeva was preparing dinner, I was talking to her and on my iPad. I was surfing the net. I was looking at cars that I had wanted to get around to during the day to have a look at and, when I went upstairs, as I was drawing the bath I was on my iPad. I lay on my bed and took off my suit. I then sat in the bath for a while. I can’t remember if I was on it then and then as I got out of bed for a short time thereafter I was on it. And when we went down to dinner I stopped using it. We were sitting and chatting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMMdyuXfFUg from 35:10

I'm wondering if there was a little hanky panky between them when he got home rather than dinner at 19:10, which would also explain the 50 minutes when he doesn't use the iPad. They then ate later. I see that he / they looked at the *advertiser censored* sites on the iPad at 18:30.
 
He has posted these on 11th August

"Take the time today to at least once, Thank, to Show Love, to Bless, to Breath, to Forgive, to Be Still and to Care."

and

"Lord, I know you have a plan for each & everyone that is struggling, please give them peace and help them to believe."

If he wants to communicate with the public, maybe he should start using his own voice instead of speaking through cut & paste quotations and evangelical platitudes. Or, pehaps he might find something more fitting from the Old Testament.


https://twitter.com/OscarPistorius
 
BBM: From this lay person's vantage point, Defense did a lot of wasting of the court's time. Roger Dixon testifying on matters in which he is not an expert comes to mind. The testimony of social worker Yvette Van Schalkwyk that Oscar sincerely was very upset about the killing seemed to be a last minute scramble.

Beginning with Oscar's evasive testimony, IMO, they did not mount a vigorous defense, but rather threw everything against the wall, including intentional muddling of timelines, hoping something would stick.

This is an excerpt from health24, this professor shares our incredulity of the defence.

Oscar and the Tinker Bell Defence: Clap Hands if you believe in Fairies. Listening at any length to Tannie Roux in full flight is a truly unpleasant experience. It’s that sanctimonious sense of simulated indignation, the wheedling, high-pitched voice, the endlessly condescending, pouting, pious, sulky, kvetching.

Roux doesn’t argue, he nags, he carps

After calling a disastrous series of witnesses, leaving us unsure of which of a host of possible defences and versions of events he’d settle on, he chose to sit on at least two chairs at once, insisting they were only one. We hoped that at last he’d convince us, with a coherent argument based on real facts. Alas, this wasn’t to be.

He chose, instead, the Tinker Bell defence.

Remember when in Peter Pan, the little fairy was nearing death, and Peter calls to the audience: “Do you believe in fairies?"

If you do, clap your hands! Don’t let Tink die!” And the audience, especially the children, clap furiously and revive the sprite. Roux’s Pixie Dust.

The defence relied almost entirely on fictional facts, invented by “experts” venturing beyond their areas of expertise, absolutely fallacious, but sprinkled like Tinker Bell’s pixie dust, in the hope of confusing the issues, hoping the audience will applaud.

As I’ll make clear, much of what was paraded before the court was pseudo-science, speculation and invention masquerading as science.

It would be disaster for South African justice and science if this was accepted. For all of Nel’s panache and swagger, he has been over-confident and has failed to call necessary witnesses to denounce and dispose of the psychobabble and fake science we have heard.

Despite his skilful cross-examination, there is far too much nonsense he could not (on his own) and did not challenge, having insufficient expert advice and evidence of his own.

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Oscar-Pistorius-and-the-Tinker-Bell-defence-20140811
_____________________

ksfIGRw.jpg

New pic of Uncle Arnold and Aunty :scared:
 
Was reading through the defence heads and while mostly very ambitious with smoke and mirrors there is two thing that worry me in their apparent validity:

1) Roux uses Stipp's hearing of two sets of gunshots as evidence that one can mistake cricket bat and gun noises .

2) EVDM did in fact mistake OP for a woman at first before being corrected by her husband.

I hope Masipa doesn't put too much weight on these!
 
Was reading through the defence heads and while mostly very ambitious with smoke and mirrors there is two thing that worry me in their apparent validity:

1) Roux uses Stipp's hearing of two sets of gunshots as evidence that one can mistake cricket bat and gun noises .

2) EVDM did in fact mistake OP for a woman at first before being corrected by her husband.

I hope Masipa doesn't put too much weight on these!

Well if you believe Judge Greenland and Ulrich Roux they don't think Oscars going to get away with much. :jail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOWDwzvWPnA
 
OP resembles Peter Pan in his refusal to grow up and take responsibility for his actions, his need for "mommy" figures to constantly kiss his furrowed brow and assure him he's wonderful and all will be well, his arrogant crowing about himself while surrounded by sycophants who exist to do his bidding and serve his needs, as Nel the ticking crocodile gets nearer and nearer and nearer ...
 
Was reading through the defence heads and while mostly very ambitious with smoke and mirrors there is two thing that worry me in their apparent validity:

1) Roux uses Stipp's hearing of two sets of gunshots as evidence that one can mistake cricket bat and gun noises .

2) EVDM did in fact mistake OP for a woman at first before being corrected by her husband.

I hope Masipa doesn't put too much weight on these!

In his closing Nel wisely reminded the court of the Stipps unrefuted testimony that the tub/sink area light was ON when OP claims it was OFF. At the time I wrote down his saying, "If he fired the shots when that light was on, his version cannot be accepted." Absolutely true.
 
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