'They Haven't Even Found Caylee's Clothes,' Anthony Says

[ShadowGal]

CA has only admitted to removing the pants that belonged to KC from the car. Could it be possible that she also removed some of Caylee's clothes at the same time, threw them in the washer along with the slacks of KC's.....and that's why she's saying "there's none of Caylee's clothes missing". I wouldn't put it passed her at all.

Not so sure I'm buying that Caylee sunk to the bottom of the pool. If she had already been dead for a couple of days, I believe she would have floated if put in the pool due to the gases that would be present in a body. If she did float, it wouldn't have been that hard for her to use a shovel to pull the body over close to the edge where she could then get her out. Maybe she wanted to check to see if she was going to have to weight the bag (if that's what she disposed of her in) down to keep it from floating back to the top of the water.

Hmmm. Veddy veddy inter-est-ing. And creepy. Maybe she tested pavers or bricks to see how many made it sink. Oh, this is horrible. Making me sick.

 

[BondJamesBond]

its late and I cant find a link for this.....but I think there was a folder for searchs for ZG prior to June 15th on the PC and the search for ZG in July was put into that folder on the PC.....so the search for ZG dates back before Caylee went missing.....if Im remembering right .....:waitasec:

...off topic...lemme see if I can help. I know its confusing.

Regarding the ZFG searches, I was able to confirm w/ Broderick (who knows what he's talking about regarding computers) that the computer forensics report confused people into thinking the searches for ZFG were pre-7/15. They weren't. In short, the generic files that keep a history of searches were created on dates prior to 7/15.

If you want to read more you'll find it here...jus follow the posting 'tween Broderick and me (you'll still see other posters confused even as we discuss it). It is very confusing, so, its easy to understand why the idea of pre-7/15 searches has kinda lived on...

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69288&page=4

Hope this helps.

 

[Shar824]

Hmmm. Veddy veddy inter-est-ing. And creepy. Maybe she tested pavers or bricks to see how many made it sink. Oh, this is horrible. Making me sick.

It is a sickening thought.....but remember we're talking about KC, and absolutely NOTHING she would do would be a surprise to me at all.

 

[kiki the parrot]

its late and I cant find a link for this.....but I think there was a folder for searchs for ZG prior to June 15th on the PC and the search for ZG in July was put into that folder on the PC.....so the search for ZG dates back before Caylee went missing.....if Im remembering right .....:waitasec:

...off topic...lemme see if I can help. I know its confusing.

Regarding the ZFG searches, I was able to confirm w/ Broderick (who knows what he's talking about regarding computers) that the computer forensics report confused people into thinking the searches for ZFG were pre-7/15. They weren't. In short, the generic files that keep a history of searches were created on dates prior to 7/15.

If you want to read more you'll find it here...jus follow the posting 'tween Broderick and me (you'll still see other posters confused even as we discuss it). It is very confusing, so, its easy to understand why the idea of pre-7/15 searches has kinda lived on...

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69288&page=4

Hope this helps.

THANK YOU Bond!! I keep trying to explain that these were just the dates the original firefox files were CREATED... not when they were written to. It's actually not that confusing, and this info has appeared countless places on numerous threads. People who believe the worst just aren't willing to accept any but their preconceived, most sinister version possible--whether it conflicts w fact, or is totally false. (Nobody listens to me lol... j/k... sort of... maybe it's your username... lol) JMO

:banghead:

 

[passionflower]

This heartless beotch thinks the search for Caylee is a 'scavenger' hunt :furious:

Just a game to her.......a very hard person for her age and boy the things she has done!:furious:

 

[elle1919]

THANK YOU Bond!! I keep trying to explain that these were just the dates the original firefox files were CREATED... not when they were written to. It's actually not that confusing, and this info has appeared countless places on numerous threads. People who believe the worst just aren't willing to accept any but their preconceived, most sinister version possible--whether it conflicts w fact, or is totally false. (Nobody listens to me lol... j/k... sort of... maybe it's your username... lol) JMO

:banghead:

I listen to you....I think every single one of your posts are intelligent and unbiased, And very clear about gently reminding other posters of the facts that get buried in this case. It is soo hard to point my mind in a different direction when you put so many sinister things together. We are all analyzing each tidbit of information to the fullest extreme(because that is what a sleuth should do) so sometimes I use your posts to remind myself that the trial of Casey Anthony shall be my last and final resource. Still, while this beautiful child is still missing, it helps me to come here and be with others who like me have one wish...to bring her home and put and end to the questions once and for all. (Although, I know every question will never be answered to my satisfaction.)

 

[kiki the parrot]

I listen to you....I think every single one of your posts are intelligent and unbiased, And very clear about gently reminding other posters of the facts that get buried in this case. It is soo hard to point my mind in a different direction when you put so many sinister things together. We are all analyzing each tidbit of information to the fullest extreme(because that is what a sleuth should do) so sometimes I use your posts to remind myself that the trial of Casey Anthony shall be my last and final resource. Still, while this beautiful child is still missing, it helps me to come here and be with others who like me have one wish...to bring her home and put and end to the questions once and for all. (Although, I know every question will never be answered to my satisfaction.)

Ty, I appreciate your posts too and it's encouraging to know our efforts aren't being totally lost...
:blushingsmiley:
As I've said, maybe it's because I have a (now) 20 year-old daughter myself who also became a teen mother to my (now) two year-old granddaughter... and have observed enough of the struggle to keep up w her childless friends, make the necessary sacrifices, maintain parental responsibilities and priorities etc to envision an accident scenario. Maybe it's because I've lived long enough to know that there are very few people who are entirely evil, or perfectly good...and that most of us fall somewhere in between. Or not long enough to accept that a young mother w other options for her child would end their child's life in a deliberate, senseless and heartless manner... The stats for child drownings--in FL especially--are staggering and themselves so senseless. And I've learned enough of the dynamics between KC and CA (in interviews eg) to suspect that admitting negligence to her mom might be far harder for KC than facing the full force of the State of FL... and my fear is that, if we--or more importantly, jurors--are willing to consider only the most heinous explanation for her lies and now silence, we may never get those answers.

Anyway thanks again for kind words! The only time I've gotten really discouraged is recently when a fellow poster actually took something so completely out of context, actually implying that I did not want Caylee found... wow I can't tell you how hurtful that still is... whatever other differences may be between sleuthers, I trust, as you say, that everyone here has a common prayer and goal--and that is, one way or another, for Caylee to be found. JMO
:blowkiss:

 

[KellioPSL]

kc took caylee's clothes off after zanaxing her but before putting her in the trunk. That is why she made the statement about the clothes. caylee was not wearing her clothes just a diaper imho. That tells me the clothes are around though.

 

[jon_burrows]

I think we need to go back over the interviews and phone calls. I don't think she had her phone on or with her when she disposed of Caylee because she dated 3 or 4 cops, her dad was cop, she knows she can be traced by it. I think if you look at the places you SHOULD see pings and don't you will have a better chance of finding Caylee. JMO

She was also a fan of crime shows. I don't think she had her cell phone with her either. That's why I don't think Caylee will ever be found.

 

[LCoastMom]

:laugh:....Absolutely, and after they threw me to the ground in JB Park, they threw Klee into the car with all these other children who I could see starting to strip the clothes off her. As they drove away, I could see clothing flying out of the car, but when I ran to pick it up, two dead squirrels dropped out of a tree above me, hit me on the head and knocked me unconscious. When I woke up some time later, the clothes were nowhere to be found, so I picked up the dead squirrels, put them in my car and drove to a neutral location to watch vids, cook lasagna, get a couple of bad checks ready to cash, come up with a matching club outfit and have sex. But I SAW clothes come out of the car, didn't see the license number, but I ABSOLUTELY saw clothing. I know she's close and safe with nice people who won't hurt her or kill my family as long as I keep my mouth shut!

I'm sorry, there is nothing funny about the subject matter, but your post is hysterical and I really needed the laugh with all the horrible, terrible thoughts rolling around in my head. I really wish they would bring back public hangings for anyone convicted of harming a child, or maybe some drug where they could bring the convict back from the brink at the last minute and do it again the next day. Never give them an actual day and time when the execution is going to happen, that way every time the door to the ward is opened the cons can hear it and wonder who's number is up? Is today, my day? The waiting has to be the worst part of death row: imho.

 

[DotsEyes]

Sorry, I just can not imagine being more frightened of CA than death row. If this was an accidental drowning due to good mother KC being unattentive, everyone would feel the utmost sympathy for her. I happen to know a couple of people over the course of my life who lost a child in the few minutes they were involved in some other activity. They all loved their children and would never harm them under any circumstance, but in those few minutes, the child died. They all called 911. Everyone felt their pain and sympathized with them, "but for the Grace of God, this could happen to anyone" we said. Tragic.

A couple of the children drowned in a back yard pool. One while mom was arguing with the soon to be ex-hubby, daddy of the child on the phone. One while everyone thought the other one had the child with them. One was napping, woke up and drowned before anyone noticed the child was not in her crib/bed. One was run over by a car as his mother ran after him to save him. One died of heat stroke in the car, while dad went to check on his business and got distracted by employees.

All it took was a few minutes.

Remember the one who left her baby in the baby bath, then went outside to smoke a cigarette and came back to a drowned infant? Initially she tried to lie because she was so guilt ridden over what she did, but soon enough, she told LE what happened.

KC did not call for help. Why? Because her actions were intentional. She did not admit to an accident due to her own negligence. Why? Because Caylee's death was not an accident. It was not an act of negligence or inattentiveness on KC's part. No one would face death row if there was any reasonable explanation of an accidental death and panic taking over.

She can not tell what happened because then she would have to also tell where the body is located and the body will show that the death was a murder, not an accident.

THEY haven't found her clothes? This is LE's fault?

She has a ugly little mind. (JP)

 

[LCoastMom]

I'm confused is that just LP surmising what could have happened ?
I guess so.
Do you know how difficult it would be to get a shovel into the pool to scoop a child out from the bottom ? Water becomes heavy when you want to put something in move it like a oar from a boat.. you'd have to be strong.

I cant see that myself
Well, if she just got her to the top of the pool, then she could reach over and pull her the rest of the way out.
Anyway, I just thought I'd post his interview because of what he had said way back then about the clothes being taken off.

Why wouldn't KC just climb into the pool and handle Caylee's body by herself? Why try using a tool? Is this a case of trying to fit the evidence to the crime?

I think LP's time line is a little off, if KC were going to place Caylee in the pool for any reason without leaving a very unpleasant trail of evidence, it would have had to been on the day she died. The temperatures in Orlando the week of 6-17 ranged between 72 overnight to a high of 90 degrees. The average temperature was 81 degrees. In the trunk of KC's car the average temperature would have been 125 degrees, going up to almost 140 during the hottest time of the day. Caylee's little body was literally baked for the 2.6 days that she was left in the trunk.

If KC did something that caused Caylee's death, like a drug overdose, or leaving her in the hot car, or even hitting her; what did she hope to gain by placing her in the pool? This wouldn't have any effect on the cause/time of death. She missed that boat the minute she chose not to dial 911. Then there's the sink/float theory, I'm no rocket scientist but even I could figure out roughly how much weight to add to a bag to sink it without actually using using my dead child's body. After 2.6 days in the hot trunk, her little body was very bloated, very wet and well into the stage of early decomposing. Not something she could dip into the family pool and no one would notice.

 

[LCoastMom]

CA has only admitted to removing the pants that belonged to KC from the car. Could it be possible that she also removed some of Caylee's clothes at the same time, threw them in the washer along with the slacks of KC's.....and that's why she's saying "there's none of Caylee's clothes missing". I wouldn't put it passed her at all.

Respectfully snipped.

I believe CA said there was nothing of Caylee's in the car, the exception being her doll and a bag with a few diapers. There was no description of this bag, it could be a backpack or it could be the bag the diapers came in. This topic was originally a subject of concern for CA. She said KC always carried snacks and juice for Caylee. Anyone who has ever spent the day with a child being potty trained knows you also carry a change of clothes (at least one set). We would also assume if KC left the house with Caylee, planning on spending sometime with her, at least a few books and toys and possibly a favorite blanket would have been found in the car.

Whatever KC did when she left her parents house, it is very obvious caring for Caylee was not a concern.

Also for everyone worrying about the knife CA found in the car, it was a table knife, the kind used to spread butter on a slice of bread. Not the kind that could be used for cutting anything tougher than a dinner roll.

This was all from the first bond hearing and the Greta interview.

I always assumed when CA said none of Caylee's clothes were missing, the clothes GA said she was wearing when she left the house would not be included in the inventory. The description was generic enough that if they are in the house they could be explained. Caylee undoubtedly had more than one pink top and jean skirt.

GA's ability to recall what Caylee was wearing doesn't surprise me, nor do I doubt him. He was a cop, during his 2nd LE interview he is able to recall what shift he worked on different days, several weeks past without referring back to his notes. He seems to be a detail oriented person.

When he starts saying he can't recall mundane things, then I will question his honesty.

 

[chaingangal]

This twit is getting on my last nerve with her little games. Would this alleged statement be considered heresay therfore inadmissible?

 

[jennyb]

It was a butter knife because CA said so? No thanks. I'll wait for some real evidence on that.

 

[dsd07]

In my opinion, if it truly were an accident, she could or SHOULD have called police- BUT...most likely she was drugging her and when KC found her, she had been deceased for quite some time. As most people know, forensics can usually narrow down the time of death, and she knew too many hours had passed to say a horrible accident had JUST occurred. The police would know right away that this child had been dead for longer than a few minutes or even 20 or 30....KC had to come up with another story...good mothers don't drug their kids. She will never admit to what she did.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Sorry, I just can not imagine being more frightened of CA than death row. If this was an accidental drowning due to good mother KC being unattentive, everyone would feel the utmost sympathy for her. I happen to know a couple of people over the course of my life who lost a child in the few minutes they were involved in some other activity. They all loved their children and would never harm them under any circumstance, but in those few minutes, the child died. They all called 911. Everyone felt their pain and sympathized with them, "but for the Grace of God, this could happen to anyone" we said. Tragic.

A couple of the children drowned in a back yard pool. One while mom was arguing with the soon to be ex-hubby, daddy of the child on the phone. One while everyone thought the other one had the child with them. One was napping, woke up and drowned before anyone noticed the child was not in her crib/bed. One was run over by a car as his mother ran after him to save him. One died of heat stroke in the car, while dad went to check on his business and got distracted by employees.

All it took was a few minutes.

Remember the one who left her baby in the baby bath, then went outside to smoke a cigarette and came back to a drowned infant? Initially she tried to lie because she was so guilt ridden over what she did, but soon enough, she told LE what happened.

KC did not call for help. Why? Because her actions were intentional. She did not admit to an accident due to her own negligence. Why? Because Caylee's death was not an accident. It was not an act of negligence or inattentiveness on KC's part. No one would face death row if there was any reasonable explanation of an accidental death and panic taking over.

She can not tell what happened because then she would have to also tell where the body is located and the body will show that the death was a murder, not an accident.

THEY haven't found her clothes? This is LE's fault?

She has a ugly little mind. (JP)

(bold mine) These are unbearable losses, painful even to hear of another parent suffering much less endure oneself. I agree there is nothing re Casey's reaction in the aftermath of a negligence scenario that is remotely how any rational, reasonable, responsible adult would respond. At the same time, if you take an already immature, insecure, narcissistic mother who's been told for three years what an unfit mother she is (and who's btw basically been begging all her life for some limits on her outrageously bad behavior) PRIOR to June 16th; then imagine (it's not hard) like a self-fulfilling prophecy her negligence precipitates her child's death (resulting from poor supervision), compounded by an inability to reach the only ones she trusted in those critical minutes, coupled w increasing paranoia at being caught, I mean this might push someone even w/out a fullblown personality disorder over the edge to something more pathological. In the case of a two year-old in a home w an inadequately childproofed pool, neglect, inattentiveness and poor supervision alone are easily capable of causing a toddler's death. And throughout interviews w LE, and LA, KC continued to say repeatedly how maybe her mother was right, maybe she was an unfit mother afterall, how she knew her mother could never forgive her etc. The question is also whether any neglect rose to the level of culpable negligence--"gross and flagrant" failure to use "ordinary care." And if KC isn't talking or admitting to any knowledge of Caylee's death, this will be a difficult burden for the State. Any admission of neglect would go over infinitely better w LE, but her current fabrication is the only position in which she can maintain a total 'innocent victim' status w her mother: Otherwise, it's obvious to me that anyone facing possible death, attempting to hide anything more than a negligence circumstance, would no doubt have feigned one.

(snipped) "But who could have known that, w/in 24 hours, all your mother's relentless berading and prophecies about your unfit mothering would come true? Were you checking your myspace when you suddenly realized it had been too quiet for too long. Did you wonder where the time had gone as you tore yourself away from the computer to go in search of your normally babbling daughter? Was there a growing sense of unease as you checked every room, calling her name as you saw she wasn't playing in the backyard either? Were you sick w the realization she wasn't in her sandbox... nor the garage... nor playing a game of hide-and-seek, as you approached the pool w dread and terror... Is it here your mind recoiled to see first her backpack, floating on the surface... and then grapples in horror to take in the sight of Caylee's tiny, lifeless body in the bottom of the pool? Were your mother's words deafening in your ears as you asked, how could it have happened?? As you enter the cold water, fully clothed w boots, before you can reach her, was your mind already reeling w horror... was it protesting, but it has only been ten minutes... Or was it flashing back to what was more important than watching your child? Were you wracking your brain w a million questions, like who forgot to close the gate? Hadn't your mother just told you about that? Or something about Caylee soon mastering this task herself? Did you bear the guilt of having attached the ladder yourself--intending to take Caylee in, but becoming distracted; or had she been left unattended long enough that, after wandering back there, she somehow managed to pull the lawnchair over and climb up w/out help, toppling in head first while trying to retrieve a toy...

She is blue, cold and nonresponsive--beyond hope, you despair, of revival or of ever being the same vibrant, alert, active girl. You can already hear your mother's hysterical voice condemning you KC, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE... the guilt and shame so profound it is easier to feel nothing from now on. Did you freeze in your panic, frantically trying to dial while staring in shock and disbelief at your daughter who just minutes ago was so full of life... trying desperately to reach someone, ANYONE, but knowing she will never be the same. You have done the very thing of which your mother has always accused you. Maybe she IS right... You KNOW your mother can NEVER forgive you. She has forgiven so much, but there is no way you can ever make up for this. SHE CAN NEVER LEARN THE TRUTH. This time there is no one who can be trusted, and no one, not even her, who can fix it.

You must hide her then, quickly... in the sandbox... no, the tarp, or wait this smaller storage container, could be dragged behind shrubs toward the rear of the yard... at least until you can figure out some other place, and come back for her. Your clothes are soaked and there is no time to waste, you have to change. You will leave then just like she told you, and stay gone. She will think you have changed, and are no longer depending on them. You just need time... you'll figure everything out later, right now you must hurry to pack a bag of your clothes, which you throw on the front seat, tossing your dripping clothes and boots behind the front seat onto the floor of the car. It is too late--nothing can ever change it, nothing will ever bring her back so you must cut her out of your heart--afterall, everyone lies, everyone dies..." (kiki the parrot)

*Of all preschoolers who drown, 75 percent are missing from sight for five minutes or less.

*Among children ages 1 to 4 years, most drownings occur in residential swimming pools. More than 85 percent of drowning among children ages 1 to 4 are pool related. Most young children who drowned in pools were in the care of one or both parents at the time.

*Barriers such as pool fencing, can help prevent children from gaining access to the pool area w/out caregivers’ awareness. Install a four-sided isolation fence that completely separates house and play area of the yard from the pool area. The fence should be at least 4 feet high. Use self-closing and self-latching gates that open outward w latches that are out of reach of children. Also, consider additional barriers such as automatic door locks or alarms to prevent access or notify you if someone enters the pool area.

*The Association of Pool and Spa Professions (ASSP) recommends being aware of objects (ETA like tables, chairs, or containers) which could allow children to climb over barriers and reach the pool.

*Drowning is a "silent killer," swimming and child medical experts said. It's not at all like Hollywood dramatizations depicting floundering swimmers bobbing to the surface yelping for help for several minutes.

*"Kids slip in the water like a pebble going under," said Dr. Marty Eichelberger CEO of the National SAFE KIDS Campaign. "As they try to get themselves out of the water, they sorta streamline their bodies making this linear form, and it takes them straight to the bottom. They only have a minute or two before they loose consciousness. ... It is a silent thing because they are under the water. They are trying to get themselves to the point where they can breathe, and as they breathe, they just suck in more water."

*The majority of children who survive (92%) are discovered w/in two minutes following submersion, and most children who die (86%) are found after 10 minutes. Nearly all who require CPR die or are left w severe brain injury. Nonfatal drownings can cause brain damage that may result in long-term disabilities including learning disabilities and permanent loss of basic functioning (permanent vegetative state).

*In 2005, of all children 1 to 4 years old who died, almost 30% died from drowning. Although drowning rates have slowly declined fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death for children.

There is nothing to date which connects chloroform to Caylee herself. I enrolled my five year-old daughter in swim lessons this fall after hearing of this case. This is the recommended age for formal instruction, but even swimming classes can not "drown proof" your child. In all honesty, I think CA and GA bear tremendous guilt too, knowing as both homeowners and grandparents, they did not childproof or safeguard their pool w the recommended barriers, safety alarms, and pool fencing to specification. A gate simply isn't enough, and in FL, where many have these backyard killers and these precautions are well known, ALL of the above should be standard procedure--in the event ANY child should wander into a pool owner's yard but particularly in a home w a toddler--which IMO would itself constitute "ordinary care." This, in my estimation, is the reason why A's keep up efforts to collude, protect and deny their daughter's responsibility. Because in a tragic but very real sense, they may realize they share culpability. JMO

http://www.poseidon-tech.com/us/statistics.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/05/27...ing/index.html
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drown.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drown.htm

 

[LCoastMom]

This twit is getting on my last nerve with her little games. Would this alleged statement be considered heresay therfore inadmissible?

'If' Tracy were wearing an illegal wire then LE would have proof, but the statement couldn't be used. If Tracy is wearing a wire and had the judges signature for the tap, then it will be used against her.

My question remains, why did Tracy need immunity before talking to LE?

 

[bookworm474]

This comment makes me think it is all a game to her. She's challenging LE IMO. 'They haven't even found her clothes".. also makes me think that they are being overlooked, and in a much easier spot to find then poor little Caylee.

If any of the bones that they have reported that were animal bones, or non related to Caylee, that hole with the stink and trash... how long would it take for testing to come back to determine who those bones (if they were human) belonged to?

I think they should look at Cindy's stash of Caylee's things. She has a shrine to Caylee at the house and Ca insists that the police were not interested in the things in the car that night in July. Casey knows her mother.

 

[technicalconfusion]

You must hide her then, quickly... in the sandbox... no, the tarp, or wait this smaller storage container, could be dragged behind shrubs toward the rear of the yard... at least until you can figure out some other place, and come back for her. Your clothes are soaked and there is no time to waste, you have to change. You will leave then just like she told you, and stay gone. She will think you have changed, and are no longer depending on them. You just need time... you'll figure everything out later, right now you must hurry to pack a bag of your clothes, which you throw on the front seat, tossing your dripping clothes and boots behind the front seat onto the floor of the car. It is too late--nothing can ever change it, nothing will ever bring her back so you must cut her out of your heart--afterall, everyone lies, everyone dies..." (kiki the parrot)

And run out to the local Target to get beer and stuff.