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Well Agatha, I give you an A for your research.

I do not recall anyone at the White's who claim Patsy was tipsy. If she were taking benzodiazepams, then why were they not taken into evidence?

My belief is that JonBenet's demise started as an accident then a staged murder.

I do not remember who mentioned this, but the bathroom incident theory just got shot down because of the poop pants and unflushed poop toilet.

If Patsy claims she entered JonBenet's bathroom to grab long johns, why did she not notice the unflushed toilet and pooped pants? I know she was lazy, but at least she would have flushed the toilet!

Perhaps JonBenet used the toilet after eating the pineapple. It makes sense to me because the pineapple could have loosened her gi tract. What if JonBenet was dressed for bed in those play pants and the red turtleneck? It makes sense because she was getting on an airplane early that morning.
 
I've been re-reading the interviews looking specifically for information on when the WC door was latched and when it was not latched. But I've run across a couple of other things that has me puzzled -- maybe someone can answer.

First of all, I know there are a lot of things that were misunderstood by whoever did the transcribing that I can figure out (Dr. Beuf was typed as "Dr. Bob", John Andrew was at least once "John Henry", peg was typed as "tag"), but one I don't understand is from the following conversation in the 1998 JR interview:
7 MIKE KANE: Did you hear anything
8 in the course of this last year and a half about
9 JonBenet's body, that someone was suggesting
10 that it was white paint?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: I unfortunately had
12 seen that in a tabloid or newspaper, briefly.
13 MIKE KANE: Have you discussed that
14 with anybody to get your insights on (MULTIPLE
15 SPEAKERS) --
16 BRYAN MORGAN: I am not implying
17 one way or the other but (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS) no
18 discussions about what we did or didn't.
19 MIKE KANE: I understand that.
20 BRYAN MORGAN: And you didn't
21 intend it that way.
22 MIKE KANE: I am just wondering
23 what insights you have.
24 JOHN RAMSEY: That's disgustingly
25 sick and it's something that you know there is
0614
1 certain amount of information that's just very
2 difficult for me to handle, or to have. And
3 that just struck me as nauseating to think about
4 that, I didn't know much about it other than
5 just a little clip I saw in the newspaper.
​
What's up with the "white paint"? Why did he and the lawyer both get so upset? Should that have been something other than what was typed?
.
 
Thanks, otg. It could very well have been a mistake in the transcription but it does make me wonder if there was more evidence from Patsy's paint tray that we are not aware of.
 
I don't know if it's even possible, but was the poop in the toilet tested to see if it was JonBenet's?
 
Toltec said:
Well Agatha, I give you an A for your research.

I do not recall anyone at the White's who claim Patsy was tipsy. If she were taking benzodiazepams, then why were they not taken into evidence?

My belief is that JonBenet's demise started as an accident then a staged murder.

I do not remember who mentioned this, but the bathroom incident theory just got shot down because of the poop pants and unflushed poop toilet.

If Patsy claims she entered JonBenet's bathroom to grab long johns, why did she not notice the unflushed toilet and pooped pants? I know she was lazy, but at least she would have flushed the toilet!

Perhaps JonBenet used the toilet after eating the pineapple. It makes sense to me because the pineapple could have loosened her gi tract. What if JonBenet was dressed for bed in those play pants and the red turtleneck? It makes sense because she was getting on an airplane early that morning.
Click to expand...



Toltec,

As a senior poster here, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you. In fact I have been reading the old threads, and I mean way old threads and have learned so much from you as well as the others that are still here. So let me say thank you, for your time and dedication to this child, I admire you... Now, to address this post.


A drink or two wouldnt have made her tipsy and she may not have taken the drug until she had gotten home. Mania, can also come on suddenly and last 3 to 7 days. Maybe PR had a drink or 2 at the dinner, arrived home and popped a pill or did a shot (as long as Im speculating. could explain the open drawers in JARs room where PR housed her supplies) the stress of packing and the trips, and/or the kids were fighting/arguing. Rejection from JB just that morning and the other millions of things that have been talked about here, she could have snapped.

As for the Ativan being taken into evidence, I imagine they could have been easily hidden with the other missing items. I mean, the Rs wouldnt want her drug addiction getting out, not to mention the long vacation she would have gotten..... I think they would have hidden them. Or, if they had been prescribed as treatment for nausea why would they take them from her? Perfectly legal to have prescribed meds. Could be why they asked about MRL, cleaning out the med cabinets, maybe PR had done it Christmas night. I think maybe, LE knew she had taken serious drugs prior, for her treatment.

I agree with you, what ever happened that night, I dont think it was intentional. I firmly believe it was an accident. I dont think anyone in that house planned to kill JBR.

Pineapple does speed up digestion and I believe thats what it did that night. Her bowels released breakfast, thats whats in the commode. So now I have a question for you...lol... If there was a bowel movement in the commode, what about the pooh pants on the floor? I mean, potty in the commode, potty in the pants, how many times had she gone (I know you cant answer that)? How long were they there? Thats an awful lot of pooh going on. Just curious to know what your take is...

Thanks again
 
Agatha_C said:
Dave,

You mentioned Patsy taking diet supplements. I just got off the phone with the pharmacist at walmart and walgreens (thank goodness for 24 hour pharmacies) Both told me that Ativan, is known for making one gain weight and no you cannot mix diet pills and Ativan or Mania can occure. I think you will be very intrested in the following link..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mania



You might have read it already as I dont seem to cover anything new around here...LOL... I am sure however, that a few others havent, so read away newbies...LOL...
Click to expand...
'

I work at Walgreens, as a Pharmacy Technician. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Our Pharmacist is also a Doctor!
 
I believe LE did take "water from toilet" into evidence though they did not specifically state that they took feces. As with all body fluids and substances, it can be tested to see if it belonged to JB. The water from a toilet, even a recently cleaned one, will of course, not show ONLY one profile unless one person alone ever used it.
Patsy had mentioned in an interview that the black "play" pants with the fecal stains on the floor were from the day before Christmas. They were not the same as the black velvet pants/jeans JB wore to the White's. It would not be unusual for Patsy to simply leave the poopy pants right were JB took them off until her housekeeper came to deal with them, so we can't assume the poop pants and the poop in the toilet were all from the same day.
I also seem to recall that when LE questioned Patsy about the fact that the toilet had not been flushed, they they were not talking about JB's bathroom, but rather the basement toilet. Whichever it was, Patsy answered it by saying that BR had friends over and they likely used that toilet, and she seemed not to be surprised by it not being flushed.
 
Toltec said:
Well Agatha, I give you an A for your research.

I do not recall anyone at the White's who claim Patsy was tipsy. If she were taking benzodiazepams, then why were they not taken into evidence?

My belief is that JonBenet's demise started as an accident then a staged murder.

I do not remember who mentioned this, but the bathroom incident theory just got shot down because of the poop pants and unflushed poop toilet.

If Patsy claims she entered JonBenet's bathroom to grab long johns, why did she not notice the unflushed toilet and pooped pants? I know she was lazy, but at least she would have flushed the toilet!

Perhaps JonBenet used the toilet after eating the pineapple. It makes sense to me because the pineapple could have loosened her gi tract. What if JonBenet was dressed for bed in those play pants and the red turtleneck? It makes sense because she was getting on an airplane early that morning.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt in my mind that JB was put to bed wearing the red turtleneck. I have also had serious doubts about her and those long johns. Why in the world would ANYONE try and put those tight things on a sleeping child?? Unless...either she WASN'T asleep when they were placed on her...OR, she was wearing another pair (as you have stated) and after her death, she was redressed...in EVERYTHING...down to her underwear.
 
Ames said:
There is no doubt in my mind that JB was put to bed wearing the red turtleneck. I have also had serious doubts about her and those long johns. Why in the world would ANYONE try and put those tight things on a sleeping child?? Unless...either she WASN'T asleep when they were placed on her...OR, she was wearing another pair (as you have stated) and after her death, she was redressed...in EVERYTHING...down to her underwear.
Click to expand...

I think we all pretty much agree she wasn't asleep. Frankly, long johns really aren't all that tight. They fit the leg closely, but the fabric really isn't clingy like tights. But as I believe she was awake anyway, it really doesn't matter if they were more difficult to put on a sleeping child, because she wasn't sleeping.
I think the red turtleneck may play a part in that night, I just can't figure out how. I do think Patsy may have put it on her when getting her ready for bed, and in the course of the night something got on it that was incriminating, and she was then redressed in the white Gap shirt she wore to the White's. I think Patsy was trying to have it believed JB wore the red shirt all day, but when confronted with photographic proof that JB did, in fact, wear the white top, she "remembered" that JB wore the white top. Possibly the red turtleneck had blood on it- that would be a big reason to wash it in the sink. Patsy did seem to be concerned that LE didn't see any blood on JB's bed/pillow, etc. Like the lady that "doth protest too much", Patsy and JR BOTH kind of harped on things they wanted to refute. As if they needed to drive the points home with a pile driver.
 
Ames said:
'

I work at Walgreens, as a Pharmacy Technician. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Our Pharmacist is also a Doctor!
Click to expand...


You rock as usual Ames and I will definitely be taking you up on that in the near future.....
 
DeeDee249 said:
I believe LE did take "water from toilet" into evidence though they did not specifically state that they took feces. As with all body fluids and substances, it can be tested to see if it belonged to JB. The water from a toilet, even a recently cleaned one, will of course, not show ONLY one profile unless one person alone ever used it.
Patsy had mentioned in an interview that the black "play" pants with the fecal stains on the floor were from the day before Christmas. They were not the same as the black velvet pants/jeans JB wore to the White's. It would not be unusual for Patsy to simply leave the poopy pants right were JB took them off until her housekeeper came to deal with them, so we can't assume the poop pants and the poop in the toilet were all from the same day.
I also seem to recall that when LE questioned Patsy about the fact that the toilet had not been flushed, they they were not talking about JB's bathroom, but rather the basement toilet. Whichever it was, Patsy answered it by saying that BR had friends over and they likely used that toilet, and she seemed not to be surprised by it not being flushed.
Click to expand...
It's my recollection that yes, it was the basement toilet they were discussing.
 
Agatha_C said:
Dave,

You mentioned Patsy taking diet supplements. I just got off the phone with the pharmacist at walmart and walgreens (thank goodness for 24 hour pharmacies) Both told me that Ativan, is known for making one gain weight and no you cannot mix diet pills and Ativan or Mania can occure. I think you will be very intrested in the following link..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mania



You might have read it already as I dont seem to cover anything new around here...LOL... I am sure however, that a few others havent, so read away newbies...LOL...
Click to expand...

Agatha, believe me, I'm interested! In fact, I was going to ask you if I could use some of this material elsewhere.
 
Agatha_C said:
Toltec,

As a senior poster here, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you. In fact I have been reading the old threads, and I mean way old threads and have learned so much from you as well as the others that are still here. So let me say thank you, for your time and dedication to this child, I admire you... Now, to address this post.


A drink or two wouldnt have made her tipsy and she may not have taken the drug until she had gotten home. Mania, can also come on suddenly and last 3 to 7 days. Maybe PR had a drink or 2 at the dinner, arrived home and popped a pill or did a shot (as long as Im speculating. could explain the open drawers in JARs room where PR housed her supplies) the stress of packing and the trips, and/or the kids were fighting/arguing. Rejection from JB just that morning and the other millions of things that have been talked about here, she could have snapped.

As for the Ativan being taken into evidence, I imagine they could have been easily hidden with the other missing items. I mean, the Rs wouldnt want her drug addiction getting out, not to mention the long vacation she would have gotten..... I think they would have hidden them. Or, if they had been prescribed as treatment for nausea why would they take them from her? Perfectly legal to have prescribed meds. Could be why they asked about MRL, cleaning out the med cabinets, maybe PR had done it Christmas night. I think maybe, LE knew she had taken serious drugs prior, for her treatment.

I agree with you, what ever happened that night, I dont think it was intentional. I firmly believe it was an accident. I dont think anyone in that house planned to kill JBR.

Pineapple does speed up digestion and I believe thats what it did that night. Her bowels released breakfast, thats whats in the commode. So now I have a question for you...lol... If there was a bowel movement in the commode, what about the pooh pants on the floor? I mean, potty in the commode, potty in the pants, how many times had she gone (I know you cant answer that)? How long were they there? Thats an awful lot of pooh going on. Just curious to know what your take is...

Thanks again
Click to expand...

Thank you Agatha...I may be a long timer and knowledgeable on lots of things, but this case is still unsolved and that is sad.

The pants on the floor of JonBenet's bathroom were not soiled but had pooh stains on them. Patsy said it was because JonBenet was not good at wiping herself.

My guess is that JonBenet used the toilet either earlier that day or after coming home and eating pineapple. If JonBenet pooped before going to the whites and she hadn't wiped herself properly, than the large bloomies she was found in should have had at least a small pooh stain on them. If she pooped after coming home, than she was changed into the large bloomies. No pooh stains were found on those bloomies and she had been wiped down.

DeeDee, there was an unflushed toilet in JonBenet's bathroom and the basement bathroom. I got confused with that also, but it is in the Ramsey interview....I'll try and look it up.
 
DeeDee...here you go...
24 THOMAS HANEY: I think we left off,

25 finished with number 18, and it's a bathroom, so

0273

1 go to 19.

2 PATSY RAMSEY: This one looks like

3 somebody went to the potty and didn't flush.

4 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, is that out of

5 the ordinary?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: Not terribly, no.

7 THOMAS HANEY: Did you -- did you

8 take JonBenet to the bathroom prior to putting

9 her to bed?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

11 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have

12 gotten up during the night and gone to the

13 bathroom?

14 PATSY RAMSEY: Possibly.

15 THOMAS HANEY: If she did, would

16 she have flushed?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not necessarily.

18 THOMAS HANEY: Anything else in

19 number 19?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
 
Thanks for posting that, Of course, he doesn't actually SAY which bathroom he is showing Patsy, but I think we can all safely assume that, as he mentioned JB getting up at night to go potty, that they are discussing the toilet in JB's bathroom.
 
Toltec said:
Thank you Agatha...I may be a long timer and knowledgeable on lots of things, but this case is still unsolved and that is sad.

The pants on the floor of JonBenet's bathroom were not soiled but had pooh stains on them. Patsy said it was because JonBenet was not good at wiping herself.

My guess is that JonBenet used the toilet either earlier that day or after coming home and eating pineapple. If JonBenet pooped before going to the whites and she hadn't wiped herself properly, than the large bloomies she was found in should have had at least a small pooh stain on them. If she pooped after coming home, than she was changed into the large bloomies. No pooh stains were found on those bloomies and she had been wiped down.

DeeDee, there was an unflushed toilet in JonBenet's bathroom and the basement bathroom. I got confused with that also, but it is in the Ramsey interview....I'll try and look it up.
Click to expand...
BBM
Man, that was one gross house.
 
SuperDave said:
Agatha, believe me, I'm interested! In fact, I was going to ask you if I could use some of this material elsewhere.
Click to expand...


Dave,

Thank you and you're free as is anyone on this forum to use anything that I post. Its all easily found online anyway... Take what you like....
 
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