JustInCase
Former Member
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- Aug 22, 2008
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I hope u feel better, might wantto take a breather!
If it makes you feel better ... breath taken ...
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I hope u feel better, might wantto take a breather!
IF it was JO, as Casey and the Anthonys have said, then of course Kio met him. They were in the same graduating class. :wink:
I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubtssorry it's so long)
<Regretfully snipped for brevity...>
All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.
Thank you so much Christine for such wise comments.
I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubtssorry it's so long)
Here is my thinking on the case, which I hope to be able to articulate without offending anyone. I am not sure if Caylee is dead or alive. I agree that it looks bad. However, I have a huge mountain of reasonable doubt. There are four things about this case I know for sure:
1- Caylee is an adorable Angel and she will always be in my heart, no matter what happens.
2- Casey is a liar and a thief.
3- Caylee is missing.
4- There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car.
Now, here is why I have reasonable doubt:
Many people here on this board, in the media, and in the general public have made the statement "I trust LE 100%".
This is a dangerous attitude for citizens of a democracy to take. Trusting authority completely is just asking for tyranny. There are many reasons to take the pronouncements of LE skeptically, not least of which they have made many honest mistakes, or mistakes born of incompetence and a desire to quickly close a case, high profile or otherwise.
But in many instances LE have made corrupt "mistakes". Remember the Riley Fox case? I bet the Sheriff in that case told the media many lies about Kevin Fox in a corrupt desire to be re-elected. Kevin Fox is sitting home today, innocent as can be while the real murderer has had years of freedom while the evidence grows cold.
LE has said that there are "indications" "suggestions" that Caylee was in the trunk, dead. There is no reason, if they have the reports back from the labs and they show Caylee to be dead, for them NOT to come right out and say: "Caylee was dead in the trunk. No question". Forensic science of this sort does not 'indicate' anything. Caylee is either dead or alive. Period.
Lies, distortions, and spin in the media-(remember "WMD"?)
Chloroform
Media reports have taken the leaks about chloroform and run with them. According to NG and the rest of the media the trunk had "significant amounts" of and the air was "saturated" with chloroform. The whole world now thinks Casey either used the chemical to drug Caylee or to murder her. But could that possibly be true?
Chloroform is an ingredient in many pesticides. If Casey had used it on Caylee, there would have been NO INSECT ACTIVITY in the trunk of her car at the tow yard. But according to the testimony of the tow yard employee, we know that there was. If the trunk was "saturated" at the time of testing, how much moreso must it have been at the tow yard?
ZG/Samantha/the script
How do we know that Casey ever changed her story on this score? First, LP said that Casey told him the script story in the living room of the Anthony home. When he told NG about it, he added that he told Casey he didn't want to know from ZG. Casey then told him to get out of her house. NG was outraged that she would have the gall to tell him that about her parents home.
Then, someone must have pointed out to LP that he had earlier said that Casey never said ONE WORD to him about the case while he was down in Orlando. So then RD comes out with the story that Casey told him the story as they rode alone to her attorney's office.
That version must not have worked out too well either as LP NOW says (on Fox the other afternoon) that CINDY told him the story. How are we to find this supposed change in Casey's story credible? I don't think we can until we have proof.
Now, many people on this board and in the general public have said "Presumption of Innocence only applies in a court of law!! The public can think/say whatever they want"
Technically, that is true. But *who* in a court of law is it most crucial that they apply this principle? The jurors, of course. And where do the jurors come from? The public. If it is ok, if it is allowed, if the public *allows* themselves to presume the guilt of every person LE investigates or even arrests for crimes then how is any accused person to ever hope to receive a fair trial from an untainted jury?
Remember Sam Shepherd? The US Supreme Court overturned a guilty verdict saying pre-trial publicity had tainted the jury's deliberations.
Remember Richard Jewel? The FBI had him tried and convicted and the media went right along with the witch hunt. Some of them are very sorry they did that but it hasn't seemed to have changed the way they operate.
All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.
NO ONE here has said we support Casey! NOT ONE! What we have done is seek every angle and declined to take part in the disparage of Casey and her family on threads that find this case laughable
Because we seek other angles and have hope ... that makes us a target? Because we explore other aspects and don't assume that Casey is the only one being mendacious in this case ... you expect explicit WE ask ... then WE deliver, kind of answers?
We are merely on a quest .... putting into practice what pops up in our inquistive minds ... trying to answer the controversial questions, that LE themselves should have at the very least ... ASKED! YET they didn't.
This thread is not about ... Casey is telling the truth.
It's more about having a standpoint ... no matter how beveled.
There is always the possibilty one might be able to find this SWEET child ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!! Gracefully hoping!
Now ... what angle might you take in hopes of finding Caylee?
Halley.... did you post on the right thread?![]()
Thank you so much Christine for such wise comments.
I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubtssorry it's so long)
Here is my thinking on the case, which I hope to be able to articulate without offending anyone. I am not sure if Caylee is dead or alive. I agree that it looks bad. However, I have a huge mountain of reasonable doubt. There are four things about this case I know for sure:
1- Caylee is an adorable Angel and she will always be in my heart, no matter what happens.
2- Casey is a liar and a thief.
3- Caylee is missing.
4- There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car.
Now, here is why I have reasonable doubt:
Many people here on this board, in the media, and in the general public have made the statement "I trust LE 100%".who would you like to see people put their trust in? A woman who speaks only lies/deceptions/mis-truths?
This is a dangerous attitude for citizens of a democracy to take. Trusting authority completely is just asking for tyranny.that's a bold statement. I would like to see some supporting fact to that line of thinking. There are many reasons to take the pronouncements of LE skeptically, not least of which they have made many honest mistakes, or mistakes born of incompetence and a desire to quickly close a case, (curious, which of those do you believe apply in this case?) high profile or otherwise.
But in many instances LE have made corrupt "mistakes". Remember the Riley Fox case? I bet the Sheriff in that case told the media many lies about Kevin Fox in a corrupt desire to be re-elected. Kevin Fox is sitting home today, innocent as can be while the real murderer has had years of freedom while the evidence grows cold. how does this realate to this case?
LE has said that there are "indications" "suggestions" that Caylee was in the trunk, dead. There is no reason, if they have the reports back from the labs and they show Caylee to be dead, for them NOT to come right out and say: "Caylee was dead in the trunk. No question". Forensic science of this sort does not 'indicate' anything. Caylee is either dead or alive. Period.
Lies, distortions, and spin in the media-and casey does what again?(remember "WMD"?)
Chloroform
Media reports have taken the leaks about chloroform and run with them. (I honestly don't see why this was leaked either, doesn't really make sense and doesn't connect anything, only encourages speculation.) According to NG and the rest of the media the trunk had "significant amounts" of and the air was "saturated" with chloroform. The whole world now thinks Casey either used the chemical to drug Caylee or to murder her. But could that possibly be true?
Chloroform is an ingredient in many pesticides. If Casey had used it on Caylee, there would have been NO INSECT ACTIVITY in the trunk of her car at the tow yard. But according to the testimony of the tow yard employee, we know that there was. If the trunk was "saturated" at the time of testing, how much moreso must it have been at the tow yard?
ZG/Samantha/the script
How do we know that Casey ever changed her story on this score? First, LP said that Casey told him the script story in the living room of the Anthony home. When he told NG about it, he added that he told Casey he didn't want to know from ZG. Casey then told him to get out of her house. NG was outraged that she would have the gall to tell him that about her parents home.
Then, someone must have pointed out to LP (fwiw I don't think anything that he has said has been the main reason for any "outrage", except that of NG)that he had earlier said that Casey never said ONE WORD to him about the case while he was down in Orlando. So then RD comes out with the story that Casey told him the story as they rode alone to her attorney's office.
That version must not have worked out too well either as LP NOW says (on Fox the other afternoon) that CINDY told him the story. How are we to find this supposed change in Casey's story credible? I don't think we can until we have proof.
Now, many people on this board and in the general public have said "Presumption of Innocence only applies in a court of law!! The public can think/say whatever they want" Are you asking people to ignore what is happening and wait to get angry about the fact this child is missing and not reported for 30 days? You can't deny caylee is missing and that doesn't have to be tried in a court of law to be considered fact. People are outraged the fact this child was ignored for 30 days. that's why people "hate" kc.
And yes, Technically, that is true. But *who* in a court of law is it most crucial that they apply this principle? The jurors, of course. And where do the jurors come from? The public. If it is ok, if it is allowed, if the public *allows* themselves to presume the guilt of every person LE investigates or even arrests for crimes then how is any accused person to ever hope to receive a fair trial from an untainted jury?
Remember Sam Shepherd? The US Supreme Court overturned a guilty verdict saying pre-trial publicity had tainted the jury's deliberations. was the person tried again? I believe he died before he could be re-tried. They ALWAYS get tried again when the verdict is overturned. Doesn't always mean the defendant was not guilty.
Remember Richard Jewel? The FBI had him tried and convicted and the media went right along with the witch hunt. well, he didn't have a missing little girl he ignored , either.Some of them are very sorry they did that but it hasn't seemed to have changed the way they operate.
All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.
I think you are missing the boat here. Although there have been people parading around their baby killer etc signs, those people are the extreme. I think if you took a poll, you would find the public is directing anger at kc because they want to know what happened to Caylee. It's the unknown. Many , many people believe kc holds the key and is simply staying mute. Some even believe the gp's know as well. I honestly don't think people would be sooooo angry at her if she hadn't not reported Caylee missing, if she hadn't lied, and if they didn't have so much proof she was having a gay old time at fusian instead of looking for caylee. no one was told Caylee was missing. that's the anger.
disclaimer: I am NOT trying to convince anyone she is dead. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect yours. I am replying to the post, as I have nowhere else to address it.
I don't take it as you trying to convince anyone that Caylee is dead.
I think we're all angry at Casey and the ways she's handled everything.
All her lies, the stealing, her deceit and the partying; it all adds up to guilt.
I know she's guilty of a lot of things, but I don't know what all it is exactly just yet. We are only privy to what LE wants us to be privy to.
The bottom line for me is, I'm not ready to give up on Caylee and put her in a grave as long as there is even a half % chance that she's still alive.
Wow. Beautiful, well thought, honest answer.
I'm being serious, what would be the harm in getting the missing flyer in every major newspaper in the states where the A family thinks she could be? I'm sure that some sleuther on this forum could translate it in to Spanish for the PR newspapers and there you go, nationwide coverage. Once again, what would be the harm?
None, my local news station has not even really covered it. I was talking to some of my neighbors and brought up Caylee they did not even know what I was talking about. They hadn't even heard of the story!
I have not seen it on my local news either. When i bring it up to people some know, and some are like oh the mother who didnt contact police and some are like who... I wonder if they know what she even looks like.
I'm being serious, what would be the harm in getting the missing flyer in every major newspaper in the states where the A family thinks she could be? I'm sure that some sleuther on this forum could translate it in to Spanish for the PR newspapers and there you go, nationwide coverage. Once again, what would be the harm?