Through a Juror's Eyes/What do those who haven't followed the case believe? (Merged)

[Ssejors]

I wanted to pose a question to everyone and anyone who is NEW to this case and currently watching the trial live.


What is your initial reaction to the live Trial?

How are you perceiving things that are going on in this trial?

Have your opinions changed since you started watching?

Has your opinion changed since you joined Websleuths?


I know, personally, that I have already formed an opinion based on all the evidence I have seen. But I know there are people out there who HAVE NOT formed an opinion prior to the start of the trial and even PRIOR to joining Websleuths.


The reason that I ask this, is that I would like to have a better Idea as to WHAT the jurors may be thinking.

Can ANY New WS'ers who HADN'T already formed opinions chime in as to how they are perceiving the trial? Even if you did already HAVE a preconceived idea as to ICA's Guilt or innocence, can you please let me know how the evidence being presented, from audio, video, pictures, witness testimony, etc. is making an impact on you? How is affecting you? How is it affecting your thoughts on ICA or her guilt or innocence.


Mods please chop this thread without mercy if it's not appropriate but I am very curious to have the perceptions of those who are new here.


Tyvm

Ssejors

 

[burbqueen]

Well i'm new to all of this. I barely know anything about this case until the trial.

I love the live trial and its very interesting to knw how the judicial system works.

This are going o.k. but the defenses case is shocking to me. Accusations, outbursts from weird people. Its kinda like a circus.

Nope. Same opinion. KA seems very childish and selfish. I watched the jailhouse tapes for the first time and she seems frantic almost hysterical. Just weird. It was all about me, me me!

Nope. Same opinion, but I'm not new to WS just this case.

I dunno what to say about her family in all this. My opinion on them has softened. Now her brother is another things. I feel worse about him. I think he is a liar and trying to please everyone.

thanks for asking!

 

[Ssejors]

Thanks for Answering!

 

[Donjeta]

I guess I'm pretty new to the case. I'm not local and I haven't followed it in any detail. I've peeked into the Caylee forum but it always seemed to have too may threads moving too fast to even begin to read it. I had heard of her and seen her pictures. I used to follow Haleigh Cummings forum and there was some talk about Caylee because Haleigh went missing on the day of Caylee's memorial or something so I had heard the basics about her being missing and I knew that her mom was generally regarded a liar and the Anthony family and the sideshow circus around them caused quite a lot of exasperation and Leonard Padilla came into it somehow and I had heard the name Roy Kronk and I knew that a lot of WSers didn't like Jose Baez. But I wasn't reading WS when Caylee's case started and by the time I got here I figured that it was pretty much solved and her mom did it.

So I suppose I came into this trial with a preconception of guilt and a vague notion of the things that had happened.

Still, hearing and watching her lie has been mind-boggling. I know she's lying and I think it sounds lik she's lying and everybody around her seems to think she's lying and calls her out on stuff but she just continues and continues. All the detail about the imaginanny's family... she knows her stepdad's name and she's seen her roommates a couple of times but she knows everything about their family finances and everything except how to contact them. Gosh, it's just unbelievable.

I had heard negative things about Casey's parents and how they believe everything she says but looking at them I just see broken people who don't trust a word that their daughter says. They desperately want to, and may have painted themselves into a couple of corners when trying to avoid convicting her in their testimony earlier, but IMO their questioning of her showed they had lots of experience being lied to by her. Today's jailhouse tape IMO, Cindy was on to her.

George is harder to read for me, he seems shiftier but it may be just because he's been accused of horrible things. I think there might be some secrets but I don't believe a word of the defense story. It makes no sense. I could have bought accidental drowning and covering it up, for a while, but to come up with that excuse three years after and only in a DP trial? No. If it was an accident there'd be a plea. And they wouldn't have to explain the duct tape by the stupid nonsensical Roy Kronk lie. It just makes no sense why he'd pick up a drowned girl's body, put some duct tape on it and then claim to find it. It just sounds like a story that Casey would come up with.

Another reason I don't believe the drowning story is that she throws so many people she calls friends under the bus. She wouldn't feel like she had to or had the right to blame other people for kidnapping her if she knew it was a tragic accident. The only reason she does so is to save her own butt because she did something very bad.

So far I'm not liking the defense team at all. They're up against an impossible task but the way they feel like they need to discredit all the state witnesses' credibility to distract the attention away from the total dishonesty of their own client is offputting. I haven't seen all the witnesses but I didn't like the way JB treated Amy and making her out to be a jealous braindamaged drunk when his client stole from her. Glad they got the jail tape in where Casey says she took things from Amy. I feel the jury needs to know. Casey said good things about her, yet stole from her. And was Amy one of the people she threw under the bus in that cryptic Lee tape?

Also the Yuri Melich questioning was distasteful. He was just doing his JOB! And Casey was LYING to him! So of course he investigated. It's what police DO.

After Casey's been falsely throwing everybody and their cat under the bus it seems quite obvious that the defense OS is just another one. JMO. I haven't yet heard of a credible motive that George would have.

 

[cluciano63]

I am new to this case in that all I really knew coming to trial was that Casey was involved in her daughter's death.

After watching the trial for 10 days now, and knowing what is yet to come from the various threads, I am not convinced she intended to kill Caylee, but that she did in fact kill her on June 16, by herself. I think she either used the duct tape to stop her crying with a reckless disregard for her life, or applied the duct tape afterward when she conceived the "brilliant" plan to claim that Caylee was kidnapped. I think she drove around with Caylee's body in the trunk, not having made any kind of plan as to what to do with her.

I think the computer searches may well have been planning to kill her parents. And maybe she had ideas of life without Caylee as well. But I am not convinced that she intended to kill her on June 16. Her looking up chloroform could have been an effort to find out out if she could use it to keep Caylee from bothering her when she needed her "asleep."

I'll wait out the trial, but at this point, I could not vote for 1st degree murder, especially without a specific cause of death. On the other hand, I don't doubt she had it in her to kill Caylee or anyone else; just not convinced this was a planned act when Caylee actually died. It seems a very poor plan, if so. All she needed to do was dump Caylee that same day, the smell would never have come about, the fluids wouldn't have seeped through, etc. and it would have been very hard to prove anything against Casey. Caylee would have been found, as she was, with duct tape around her head, and it would be at least feasible that someone else had done it. The heart sticker=stupidity to me, but still not premeditation. Maybe she planned to say she had given a roll of the stickers to "Zanny."

JMO of course.

 

[Lera213]

SHE IS GUILTY


Don't look at my post count.

 

[DairyGirl]

I am new to this case in that all I really knew coming to trial was that Casey was involved in her daughter's death.

After watching the trial for 10 days now, and knowing what is yet to come from the various threads, I am not convinced she intended to kill Caylee, but that she did in fact kill her on June 16, by herself. I think she either used the duct tape to stop her crying with a reckless disregard for her life, or applied the duct tape afterward when she conceived the "brilliant" plan to claim that Caylee was kidnapped. I think she drove around with Caylee's body in the trunk, not having made any kind of plan as to what to do with her.

I think the computer searches may well have been planning to kill her parents. And maybe she had ideas of life without Caylee as well. But I am not convinced that she intended to kill her on June 16. Her looking up chloroform could have been an effort to find out out if she could use it to keep Caylee from bothering her when she needed her "asleep."

I'll wait out the trial, but at this point, I could not vote for 1st degree murder, especially without a specific cause of death. On the other hand, I don't doubt she had it in her to kill Caylee or anyone else; just not convinced this was a planned act when Caylee actually died. It seems a very poor plan, if so. All she needed to do was dump Caylee that same day, the smell would never have come about, the fluids wouldn't have seeped through, etc. and it would have been very hard to prove anything against Casey. Caylee would have been found, as she was, with duct tape around her head, and it would be at least feasible that someone else had done it. The heart sticker=stupidity to me, but still not premeditation. Maybe she planned to say she had given a roll of the stickers to "Zanny."

JMO of course.

I have heard that in Florida if a child dies as a result of child abuse then it is first degree murder. Not sure about that but if that is true then even if KC didn't intend to kill Caylee, only get her to be quiet, it would still be considered 1st degree murder. But those computer searches indicate to me that she was looking at ways to harm someone. Who we may never know but since Caylee is the one that died I have to think that was part of her plan. As much as KC could plan anyway.
As far as if KC had dumped the body earlier and not leaving decomp behind, it may left less evidence but the fact is she choose to leave her body down the street from her house in a place she was familiar with, a place she supposedly buried dead pets. She wrapped her in things from her own house. Not a criminal mastermind, that is for sure. Just like the videos of her cashing Amy's checks, she left so many tracks it was almost as if she wanted to get caught. Or truly believed she could lie her way out of it.
She may not be the smartest killer but she is a killer nonetheless.

 

[katydid23]

My daughter just turned 19. She never followed this case other than knowing that I have been obsessed with it among other cases. She has never been interested in the details.

When the trial started she watched much of the opening statements. She was a captive audience because I was watching it in the kitchen and she was baking for a party that night. Anyway, at first she was kind of swayed by the DT opening. She knew nothing about Kronk and ignored all of that stuff at the end. But it made sense to her that Casey might have been sexually abused and tried to cover up an accidental drowning. I never tried to dissuade her. I was curious if she would hold to that belief. Today she was a captive audience again because her friend was coloring her hair. They were both here and waiting around the house a lot so I had them watch the replay of the tapes on HLN.
They watched the Universal interview, the first phone call and the visit with the 2 parents, the one with George and then the one with Lee. My daughter has switched her
position. No surprise, being a Gemini, but she really changed her point of view drastically after watching Casey in action. She said even if Casey was abused, although she now has doubts about that too, it still would not create that much pathology in her behavior. She now feels that it was possibly a murder, which she never thought before.

She did not get the creepy feelings from George that others have. She thought he seemed to genuinely love and care for Casey and was just heartbroken. Also, my husband routinely says " Hey Beautiful' or 'Hi Gorgeous' to her and has since she was little. It is normal to us. I do not think it means anything hinky. My dad used to say the same thing to me. I have always thought it was a way to make girls feel beautiful coming from the first most important man in their life. Calling someone 'beautiful' does not have to be a sexual thing, imo.

 

[katydid23]

I have heard that in Florida if a child dies as a result of child abuse then it is first degree murder. Not sure about that but if that is true then even if KC didn't intend to kill Caylee, only get her to be quiet, it would still be considered 1st degree murder. But those computer searches indicate to me that she was looking at ways to harm someone. Who we may never know but since Caylee is the one that died I have to think that was part of her plan. As much as KC could plan anyway.
As far as if KC had dumped the body earlier and not leaving decomp behind, it may left less evidence but the fact is she choose to leave her body down the street from her house in a place she was familiar with, a place she supposedly buried dead pets. She wrapped her in things from her own house. Not a criminal mastermind, that is for sure. Just like the videos of her cashing Amy's checks, she left so many tracks it was almost as if she wanted to get caught. Or truly believed she could lie her way out of it.
She may not be the smartest killer but she is a killer nonetheless.

Good point. Everyone says ' WHY' would she do that and then point to stupid things she did, as if it proves she is not guilty.
Why borrow a shovel from the neighbor, how stupid. Correct.
Why put a body in your trunk and drive around for days? Stupid. Correct.
Why stay in town after you bury your kid in your own neighborhood? Correct.
Why take the cops to Universal? Or to Sawgrass?
Why tell the nanny story and even say you called her and messaged her and texted her, knowing it would ALL be proven false?

NOTHING that she does makes any sense.

 

[Kat]

My daughter just turned 19. She never followed this case other than knowing that I have been obsessed with it among other cases. She has never been interested in the details.

When the trial started she watched much of the opening statements. She was a captive audience because I was watching it in the kitchen and she was baking for a party that night. Anyway, at first she was kind of swayed by the DT opening. She knew nothing about Kronk and ignored all of that stuff at the end. But it made sense to her that Casey might have been sexually abused and tried to cover up an accidental drowning. I never tried to dissuade her. I was curious if she would hold to that belief. Today she was a captive audience again because her friend was coloring her hair. They were both here and waiting around the house a lot so I had them watch the replay of the tapes on HLN.
They watched the Universal interview, the first phone call and the visit with the 2 parents, the one with George and then the one with Lee. My daughter has switched her
position. No surprise, being a Gemini, but she really changed her point of view drastically after watching Casey in action. She said even if Casey was abused, although she now has doubts about that too, it still would not create that much pathology in her behavior. She now feels that it was possibly a murder, which she never thought before.

She did not get the creepy feelings from George that others have. She thought he seemed to genuinely love and care for Casey and was just heartbroken. Also, my husband routinely says " Hey Beautiful' or 'Hi Gorgeous' to her and has since she was little. It is normal to us. I do not think it means anything hinky. My dad used to say the same thing to me. I have always thought it was a way to make girls feel beautiful coming from the first most important man in their life. Calling someone 'beautiful' does not have to be a sexual thing, imo.

Over the past week I've talked to a few people out in the community that have brought the trial up. I never respond but rather listen to what they think.

They think it was an accidental death and that she is acting strange and didn't report it because she is was sexually abused by her father.

(the hey gorgeous and Hi beautiful never caused me to pause either, my Daddy always calls me an endearment like that too and my daughters as well. I don't relate that with sexuality either). JMHO.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I have heard that in Florida if a child dies as a result of child abuse then it is first degree murder. Not sure about that but if that is true then even if KC didn't intend to kill Caylee, only get her to be quiet, it would still be considered 1st degree murder. But those computer searches indicate to me that she was looking at ways to harm someone. Who we may never know but since Caylee is the one that died I have to think that was part of her plan. As much as KC could plan anyway.
As far as if KC had dumped the body earlier and not leaving decomp behind, it may left less evidence but the fact is she choose to leave her body down the street from her house in a place she was familiar with, a place she supposedly buried dead pets. She wrapped her in things from her own house. Not a criminal mastermind, that is for sure. Just like the videos of her cashing Amy's checks, she left so many tracks it was almost as if she wanted to get caught. Or truly believed she could lie her way out of it.
She may not be the smartest killer but she is a killer nonetheless.

The words 'computer searches' were bolded by me. Another thing that has not been mentioned in a long time is that Casey had also visited a missing childrens site several months prior.

Those computer searches as well as having visited a missing childrens site will certainly not sit well with the jury, IMO.

Casey Anthony - Guilty!

 

[Kat]

The words 'computer searches' were bolded by me. Another thing that has not been mentioned in a long time is that Casey had also visited a missing childrens site several months prior.

Those computer searches as well as having visited a missing childrens site will certainly not sit well with the jury, IMO.

Casey Anthony - Guilty!

Off topic but this nudged my memory of Melissa Huckaby having searched for Rose Pizem case.

And interestingly, that case also involves a mother and grandfather of a child that was murdered and placed in a suitcase and places in a body of water (river).

If anyone is interested in having a look at that case as well we have threads for both: 1. Sandra Cantu (murdered by Melissa Huckaby) and Rose Ron (surname also called Pizem).

Sorry off topic but I wonder what sites KC looked at? I don't remember if they were identified?

 

[carole]

Off topic but this nudged my memory of Melissa Huckaby having searched for Rose Pizem case.

And interestingly, that case also involves a mother and grandfather of a child that was murdered and placed in a suitcase and places in a body of water (river).

If anyone is interested in having a look at that case as well we have threads for both: 1. Sandra Cantu (murdered by Melissa Huckaby) and Rose Ron (surname also called Pizem).

Sorry off topic but I wonder what sites KC looked at? I don't remember if they were identified?

BBM

The actual websites she looked at haven't been disclosed, just that she searched "missing children".

 

[1Chump]

IMO, I think the SA may have made too much of a big deal about the odor of decomp in the car.

Both my friend and I were SHOCKED that the Blue Star nor the more specific test did not show blood. We both said the same thing. If there is no blood than it had to be the trash.

When the "hair" was introduced, again surprised that there was only one hair showing a possible "decomp."

Again, just because there was so much testimony about the strong odor, we expected more forensics to support that a decomposing body was in that car.

 

[RR0004]

[/B]BBM

The actual websites she looked at haven't been disclosed, just that she searched "missing children".

This is a myth...meaning it is NOT TRUE...good info found here.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3411077&postcount=24"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Myth Busters & Facts **NO DISCUSSION HERE PLEASE**[/ame]

 

[RR0004]

The words 'computer searches' were bolded by me. Another thing that has not been mentioned in a long time is that Casey had also visited a missing childrens site several months prior.

Those computer searches as well as having visited a missing childrens site will certainly not sit well with the jury, IMO.

Casey Anthony - Guilty!

Except the searches were conducted after she was reported missing...

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3411077&postcount=24"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Myth Busters & Facts **NO DISCUSSION HERE PLEASE**[/ame]

 

[Turnadot]

IMO, I think the SA may have made too much of a big deal about the odor of decomp in the car.

Both my friend and I were SHOCKED that the Blue Star nor the more specific test did not show blood. We both said the same thing. If there is no blood than it had to be the trash.

When the "hair" was introduced, again surprised that there was only one hair showing a possible "decomp."

Again, just because there was so much testimony about the strong odor, we expected more forensics to support that a decomposing body was in that car.

Interesting. Why?

I'm not a decomp expert or a doctor, so I could use some insight.

 

[RR0004]

IMO, I think the SA may have made too much of a big deal about the odor of decomp in the car.

Both my friend and I were SHOCKED that the Blue Star nor the more specific test did not show blood. We both said the same thing. If there is no blood than it had to be the trash.

When the "hair" was introduced, again surprised that there was only one hair showing a possible "decomp."

Again, just because there was so much testimony about the strong odor, we expected more forensics to support that a decomposing body was in that car.

Why does there have to be blood? Was she cut in some way? Or are you saying blood in the decompositional fluid? Here's a link about decomp. I don't believe there would be blood after a few days of decomp. I know there are posts here that address this...maybe Joypath can chime in.

For reference...(graphic)

http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/death-dying/dying4.htm

 

[LawRig]

IMO, I think the SA may have made too much of a big deal about the odor of decomp in the car.

Both my friend and I were SHOCKED that the Blue Star nor the more specific test did not show blood. We both said the same thing. If there is no blood than it had to be the trash.

When the "hair" was introduced, again surprised that there was only one hair showing a possible "decomp."

Again, just because there was so much testimony about the strong odor, we expected more forensics to support that a decomposing body was in that car.

if it was a "soft kill" as suspected, there would be no blood. Decomp fluids are not bloody. This was not a 180 lb adult, it was a 3 yr old baby ... decomp fluids would not even be that much quantitively speaking... and she was tripled bagged, wearing a pull up so the fact that there was anything leaking at all is pretty surprising.

 

[1Chump]

Interesting. Why?

I'm not a decomp expert or a doctor, so I could use some insight.

I don't want to be graphic so maybe this will help explain it. Have you went away on vacation or emergency and came back to a rotting bag of celery or fruit in your fruit/veg drawer? It turns to liquid. If you remove it without dripping the liquid, the smell goes away when it is removed. But if the liquid leaked, the odor keeps gettting worse until you clean up the liquid.