Through a Juror's Eyes/What do those who haven't followed the case believe? (Merged)

[Cookie278]

I have seen it mentioned several times, that if a juror has survived abuse, they would tend to be sympathetic towards kc. For me, I think it would be the opposite. As a survivor, I would be harder on her. She did nothing to remove herself from that house (most of us count the days until we can leave). She left her daughter alone with him. And where does she get off thinking her being abused gets her a free pass to lie, cheat, steal and murder or at the least let her daughter rot in the woods??? And to use it as a excuse? Nope, I would be a very disgusted juror.

 

[nursebeeme]

Hi, thanks for this thread and asking the hard question...I was waaaayyyy to afraid to broach this subject on WS. (fraidy cat!)

I have been hearing about this case from the beginning. I thought she was guilty. CA's phone call to 911 about the dead body smell was telling, IMO.

I joined WS in April, 'cause of the LI case (Shannan Gilbert and the murdered prostitutes on Gilgo Beach). The KC threads were so numerous, I didn't even attempt to check them out.

I watch NG...but IMO, the show got tacky when she focused her "hatred " of KC onto what the woman was getting in the jail commissary. That was just a little too much for me. Honestly, I think many people are so "hateful." There is a difference in being interested in a case, and crucifying someone (who is innocent until proven guilty) IMHO. I'm old enough to know that I don't want to be judged unreasonably, so I would allow others that right to not be judged. That being said...here is my 2 cents:

1)Watching the trial this week, I was amazed at how quickly JB was able to establish "reasonable doubt." opening statements cannot be taken as fact in the case

2) Most posters who claim to not believe her story of abuse, have probably not been abused themselves. Someone (it only takes one) on that jury just might know what that feels like. They may even have practiced "denial" in their own lives. DENIAL IS A COPING/SURVIVAL MECHANISM THAT BECOMES HIGHLY DEVELOPED WITH PRACTICE. No victim of abuse wants to do that...it just happens, in order for them to survive. I agree to some point.. did you listen to the testimony of Cindy Anthony on Friday? If not keep listening...

3) KC will have to testify to have credibility for accusing her father and brother of abuse.she does not have to testify. I think most of us want to see it come out of her mouth (the accusations) but personally I think she will leave it up to her counsel

4) I am struck by the testimony from people about KC's relationship with Caylee. Only good, even great things are being said about the way she cared for and related to her daughter. There seemed to be a lot of love there. Another reason for reasonable doubt. the testimony you saw, while people said she seemed loving.. also reflects her attitude and demeanor after the "alleged drowning incident" or her murder.. either way is this a normal way for a woman to act who had a child that just died?

Of course, I will wait to make a decision on guilt or innocence, as the jury and most reasonable people will do. I totally agree

Again, thanks for the thread, brave one! I understand that this case is painful. People are passionate...I'd be happy to pop in with my thoughts as this trial progresses...as someone who knows the basics of the case but never sleuthed it...and could only watch so much NG! FYI, I think I DID see all the jailhouse videos, and like I said - I thought she was guilty. Who lies like that is what I thought. But when JB started to talk about "something's just not right"...I think we could ALL agree, something was not right in that family dynamic. I'm not saying it is sexual abuse, but something is very dysfunctional with this family. How did KC (who started out innocent, a baby) become such a liar? JB did a great job IMO.

5) Yes, many mothers have killed their children...most were also found to be mentally ill - seriously mentally ill. I'm a parent - it's appalling, but people in their right mind don't generally murder their kids...Can anyone name a case where the mother wasn't mentally ill? Can you name two? haha JK susan smith for starters

6) Some people have said that GA, being LE, would not have hidden a body. But he hasn't been LE for awhile, right? One question I would think as a juror is "why is GA no longer in LE"? I'm sure one of you can tell me the answer...TIA! he works security.. that is in the branch of enforcement of some type


any insights/answers are welcome. Tough subject for everybody - peace all!

to the best of my ability my answers are in red... I must say that I found your post very insightful as a person not knowing a thing about the case. If you read here and read all the details I am very curious to know what you think after that.

Thank you for your insightful post! I think I know what most of the jurors.. who do not know the case, must be thinking right about now.

but my personal feeling... give it 5 weeks or so.. they will know what happened..

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I believe that even if the DT could prove to me beyond ANY doubt that GA (or anyone else, for that matter) molested ICA, it still wouldn't have any bearing on how I view her behavior after the death of her daughter. And I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.

I believe that ICA would not have called her mother pleading for her to babysit a dead Caylee Anthony on afternoon of June 16th.

I believe there was a decomposing body in the trunk of ICA's vehicle.

And I believe this business about RK playing hide and seek with the body is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

As for the rest...I'm content to watch it play out.

 

[Adrienne37]

As far as the jury right now, Casey's word about the sexual abuse should mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to them. The state has already established how well she lies. Her friend has said on the witness stand that she stated "she was such a good liar." If she lied about what happened to Caylee and all the other things they are hearing that she's lied about, then there is a 100% chance that she lied about the sexual abuse. When the state's case is finished, there will be absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Casey is a pathological liar who cares more for herself than she was ever capable of loving her daughter.

 

[Gma Kat]

I was travelling with a friend on Day One of the trial. Her and I watched from our hotel. She knew NOTHING about the case. She said Casey looked evil and that she thought her attorneys should stop her from looking so evil. My hubby refused to watch or discuss this case with me for 3-years and since he accidently watch Day One he is hooked. He cried during CA's testimony and thought GA was either guilty of molesting Casey OR he was ashamed of his daughter and broken over being in his situation. At this point he believes 100% of the defense story is BS............my girlfriend feels she's guilty also and is now addicted to the trial...........

 

[Wholehearted]

I have seen it mentioned several times, that if a juror has survived abuse, they would tend to be sympathetic towards kc. For me, I think it would be the opposite. As a survivor, I would be harder on her. She did nothing to remove herself from that house (most of us count the days until we can leave). She left her daughter alone with him. And where does she get off thinking her being abused gets her a free pass to lie, cheat, steal and murder or at the least let her daughter rot in the woods??? And to use it as a excuse? Nope, I would be a very disgusted juror.

I think asserting that Casey was sexually abused is a dangerous game for the DT to play. Sure, if a juror is an abuse survivor, or close to an abuse survivor, that juror may be sympathetic in the beginning. But if the juror doesn't ultimately believe the story, it's very likely the juror will feel betrayed and very angry at Casey. I don't think the DT wants a juror to feel personally angry in either the guilt or penalty phase.

If the supposed sexual abuse had been only presented in the penalty phase, I don't think a juror would have an issue with it in the same way, for a number of reasons.

 

[twocuriouscats]

I believe that even if the DT could prove to me beyond ANY doubt that GA (or anyone else, for that matter) molested ICA, it still wouldn't have any bearing on how I view her behavior after the death of her daughter. And I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.

I believe that ICA would not have called her mother pleading for her to babysit a dead Caylee Anthony on afternoon of June 16th.

I believe there was a decomposing body in the trunk of ICA's vehicle.

And I believe this business about RK playing hide and seek with the body is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

As for the rest...I'm content to watch it play out.

Thank You MountainKat for bringing some sense of reality to this subject. I'm sorry to hear you survived that as well. Certainly, having been through that childhood "hell", you would know where I'm coming from. I'm not giving KC a free pass - just that my mind is open as to other possibilities - the lawyers have to prove their case. I think people should try to be more openminded . Just because you post your opinion, doesn't make it right. Ask yourself, why you've formed certain opinions and beliefs. Not everyone had the same life experience that you had...Not tryin' to preach - but I'm getting old and that may be my perogative!

 

[hannahsnana]

I'm hoping that at least one juror has had a sociopath in their life, will be able to see
Casey for what she is, and shed some light to the other jurors on the subject.

 

[costalpilot]

I think asserting that Casey was sexually abused is a dangerous game for the DT to play. Sure, if a juror is an abuse survivor, or close to an abuse survivor, that juror may be sympathetic in the beginning. But if the juror doesn't ultimately believe the story, it's very likely the juror will feel betrayed and very angry at Casey. I don't think the DT wants a juror to feel personally angry in either the guilt or penalty phase.

If the supposed sexual abuse had been only presented in the penalty phase, I don't think a juror would have an issue with it in the same way, for a number of reasons.

personally i think real sexual abuse survivors know that sexual abuse could not do what the dt claimed and i think they are pizzed at them for making the claim.

its so outlandish. its absurd.

 

[Quiche]

They must be wondering what the heck is Casey's World! omg LOLOL

 

[twocuriouscats]

Oh, you'll probably all hate me now...But I have to ask...If KC is guilty, which I admit she could be, how are they going to prove it? What evidence do they have that would convict her?
Does anybody honestly know how Caylee died? I don't think so.

And yes, I agree that the DT is throwing everything against the wall and hoping something will stick.

Signed,
twocuriousdevil'sadvocate

 

[twocuriouscats]

to the best of my ability my answers are in red... I must say that I found your post very insightful as a person not knowing a thing about the case. If you read here and read all the details I am very curious to know what you think after that.

Thank you for your insightful post! I think I know what most of the jurors.. who do not know the case, must be thinking right about now.

but my personal feeling... give it 5 weeks or so.. they will know what happened..

Cool. I pretty much agree with you too. Time will tell. Your response was very kind - thank you! I knew I might get nailed...haha, but not bad so far... FYI, I DID miss Cindy's testimony but I will definitely review it when I get time!
In case anyone is not clear - I declare myself :fence: (haha, I've been wanting to use that little smiley)!

 

[twocuriouscats]

They must be wondering what the heck is Casey's World! omg LOLOL

That IS hella funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Quiche]

Oh, you'll probably all hate me now...But I have to ask...If KC is guilty, which I admit she could be, how are they going to prove it? What evidence do they have that would convict her?
Does anybody honestly know how Caylee died? I don't think so.

And yes, I agree that the DT is throwing everything against the wall and hoping something will stick.

Signed,
twocuriousdevil'sadvocate

I think her car is very sound evidence. The DT will try to debunk the dogs, Dr. Vass, so on and so forth, but everyone who came into contact with the thing smelled death. No one else drove that car and she had it away from home/her parents until it went into custody of the tow yard. Pretty damning, imo.

 

[Tuffy]

I'm hoping that at least one juror has had a sociopath in their life, will be able to see
Casey for what she is, and shed some light to the other jurors on the subject.

Don't worry, hannahsnana. I don't have a sociopath in my life, and I can see Casey for what she is. I'm putting my faith in the men and women on the jury. I am going to believe that they will see things reasonably until I see evidence that they are not.

 

[twocuriouscats]

personally i think real sexual abuse survivors know that sexual abuse could not do what the dt claimed and i think they are pizzed at them for making the claim.

its so outlandish. its absurd.

Respectfully, I say again that not everybody has the same experience growing up - whether victims or not...so let's be openminded...

 

[twocuriouscats]

I think her car is very sound evidence. The DT will try to debunk the dogs, Dr. Vass, so on and so forth, but everyone who came into contact with the thing smelled death. No one else drove that car and she had it away from home/her parents until it went into custody of the tow yard. Pretty damning, imo.

Thank You Quiche. I believe that the car smelled like a "dead body." I have experience with that smell and you will never forget it or mistake it for something else, IMO. But, playing devil's advocate - what can that prove? That a dead body was in the car? That chloroform was in the car? That KC told lie after lie...I'm starting to wonder how the DA ever thought they could win this case.??
Respectfully asked...

 

[PaperDoll]

If I knew nothing about this case, and I were on the jury, of course I would be skeptical of both sides. However, as time goes on, and more witnesses has taken the stand, as they have so far, I would start to lean towards GUILTY!!! I think most people have common sense about things, even if they are not the brightest bulb in the room. After hearing Tony's statement, and the text messages, that would seal the deal for me. Even the tow service guy (can't remember his name:waitasec made a powerful statement to me. I think at first you are suppose to think "not guilty" but as the trial goes on, most people learn things and most likey find the person GUILTY.. Grant it, OJ was a exception, but he got it in the end.. :rollercoaster::behindbar

 

[chicklet]

I followed the case early on and for a short time after Caylee's body was found. I am someone who is able to keep an open mind and see both sides, so I didn't have a strong opinion one way or the other prior to opening statements.

The DT was successful, VERY successful creating reasonable doubt. GA's testimony came across to me as being very dishonest. I believe the molestation story. I don't know if I believe the story about GA finding Caylee in the pool, though. Here is where I stand right now:

GA testimony: lying/dishonest/hiding something
CA testimony: honest/truthful
Did ICA murder Caylee: I am leaning towards no
Did Caylee die due to negligence or possibly abuse: I am leaning towards yes

With no cause or manner of death, unless the prosecution gets a confession or can prove for a fact that ICA purposely killed Caylee then I don't see a murder conviction happening. I DO, however, see a manslaughter conviction happening IF the jury has that choice. If their only option is murder I think ICA will walk. I don't think a jury will risk putting ICA to death when there isn't even definite proof that a murder took place. For all we know ICA may have left her asleep in the locked car to go into a club and she could have died from how hot it would be that time of year. She could have freaked out and tried to "stage" things as if she were kidnapped by someone else.

 

[Ada]

Thank You MountainKat for bringing some sense of reality to this subject. I'm sorry to hear you survived that as well. Certainly, having been through that childhood "hell", you would know where I'm coming from. I'm not giving KC a free pass - just that my mind is open as to other possibilities - the lawyers have to prove their case. I think people should try to be more openminded . Just because you post your opinion, doesn't make it right. Ask yourself, why you've formed certain opinions and beliefs. Not everyone had the same life experience that you had...Not tryin' to preach - but I'm getting old and that may be my perogative!

Welcome 2curiouscats! :seeya:

BBM

Keep in mind that we old timers have (collectively) viewed all of the hearings and read all of the available depositions and discovery. I think most of our opinions come from having all of that information in our brains.

(I know I only registered in 2009 but I've been here since the beginning. Took me a while to get up the courage to post )