TH's emails shed light on Horman split

[stmarysmead]

I disagree. One does not get an arrest record for being overbearing, demanding or intimidating.

From OregonLive.com 11-15-2010

Young, who became visibly emotional on camera, explained that a year prior to Kyron's disappearance, she tried to get custody of him.

"Kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us," Young said. "Kyron on many occasions told me he wanted to come and live with me and on a couple of different occasions, Terri had called me specifically so that I could talk to Kyron because he was so upset and Terri, personally wanted me to take Kyron."

snipped

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kyrons_mother_desiree_young_ap.html

Well, when Terri took her first husband's son from him and she said NO to his custody...was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating."

And when Terri's second husband asked her to please not double his financial support for J because he could not afford it...and she responded by having the police contact him..and saying NO...was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating?"

When she took the SECOND inlaws money and got HER education while their own son was unable to get HIS education, was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating?"

Please no double standard...

 

[Kaybug]

Well, in all fairness and reality, Desiree could have just said screw you Kaine, and went and got a lawyer and fought him, she could have done that as well, Kaine is not Joe law and the maker of them either. So, Kaine wanted his son, is this really such a shock? Maybe if he didn't love his son so much Terri wouldnt have done something to him IF she did something with him, thats pretty sad. We already know there are emails where she says she dislikes Kyron, that is heartbreaking, looking at pictures of that little boy, knowing someone held such hate for him.....

Having been in the situation before of being intimidated by a spouse/exspouse, you would be surprised at the things you won't persue because of it. Fortunately for me, after a court battle, I did have sole custody of my children. One of my daughter's told me years ago that their Father never really wanted them, he wanted them because he knew I did. There are many layers in situations like these.

I agree, Terri probadly was very jealous and hated Kryon. I really try to look at all situations objectively. Naturally, killing Kryon was not the answer if she did it. Kaine is overbearing and as I see him, IMO, he is a manipulative person too. Did he do things to make Terri extremely jealous? Did he know Kryon wanted to live with his Mother and simply said no because he knew she wanted him? Why did he make it so difficult for Desiree? Did he imtimidate Terri to make HIS life what he wanted it? Many questions.

:cow:

 

[Kaybug]

Well, when Terri took her first husband's son from him and she said NO to his custody...was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating."

And when Terri's second husband asked her to please not double his financial support for J because he could not afford it...and she responded by having the police contact him..and saying NO...was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating?"

When she took the SECOND inlaws money and got HER education while their own son was unable to get HIS education, was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating?"

Please no double standard...

Thank you for making me aware of Terri's history, but I was posting about Kaine. I will have to do some more research on her.

 

[stmarysmead]

Thank you for making me aware of Terri's history, but I was posting about Kaine. I will have to do some more research on her.

You are welcome.

Yes, it's important to understand Terri's history too. And speaking of "overbearing, demanding, and intimidating"...soon when the emails Terri wrote about her intense hatred of little 7 year old Kyron are released..we will see how a little boy lived with an "overbearing, demanding, and intimidating" stepmother who openly (to her friends) talked about wanting to hurt him.

 

[SurfieTX]

Thank you for making me aware of Terri's history, but I was posting about Kaine. I will have to do some more research on her.

Here's a good starting place. It's written kind of storyish, not in chronological order, so you might have to take some notes.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

 

[Chablis]

Having been in the situation before of being intimidated by a spouse/exspouse, you would be surprised at the things you won't persue because of it. Fortunately for me, after a court battle, I did have sole custody of my children. One of my daughter's told me years ago that their Father never really wanted them, he wanted them because he knew I did. There are many layers in situations like these.

I agree, Terri probadly was very jealous and hated Kryon. I really try to look at all situations objectively. Naturally, killing Kryon was not the answer if she did it. Kaine is overbearing and as I see him, IMO, he is a manipulative person too. Did he do things to make Terri extremely jealous? Did he know Kryon wanted to live with his Mother and simply said no because he knew she wanted him? Why did he make it so difficult for Desiree? Did he imtimidate Terri to make HIS life what he wanted it? Many questions.

:cow:

Well, Kyron did not deserve to pay for the faults of his father, thats just a fact, and even if every answer to your question is yes, it still does not justify Terri's actions.

 

[stmarysmead]

Having been in the situation before of being intimidated by a spouse/exspouse, you would be surprised at the things you won't persue because of it. Fortunately for me, after a court battle, I did have sole custody of my children. One of my daughter's told me years ago that their Father never really wanted them, he wanted them because he knew I did. There are many layers in situations like these.

I agree, Terri probadly was very jealous and hated Kryon. I really try to look at all situations objectively. Naturally, killing Kryon was not the answer if she did it. Kaine is overbearing and as I see him, IMO, he is a manipulative person too. Did he do things to make Terri extremely jealous? Did he know Kryon wanted to live with his Mother and simply said no because he knew she wanted him? Why did he make it so difficult for Desiree? Did he imtimidate Terri to make HIS life what he wanted it? Many questions.

:cow:

Is there anything in his behavior that is an excuse for Terri"s?

She had options. She knew how to get a divorce..she had done it twice before. She knew how to get custody, child support, steal a pregnant woman's husband, sext with the first new guy who came along, take graphic sexual pictures of herself to get a new relationship started in 4 days.

She knew how to call cops if ex-husbands pleaded not to raise support payments for a child she had the guy adopt. She knew how to get new in-laws to foot the bill for HER education, while THEIR son got none. She knew how to throw her teenage son out of the house and get someone else to care for him.

She was not shy to asked the hired help to kill her husband, and not shy about having some "similar" kind of relationship with him as she did with her sexting buddy.

Terri Horman was an experienced divorcee....an educated, if non-working woman.

She had loving supportive parents and even some MONEY TREE that is now funding high priced lawyers.

She is no helpless little girl buffeted about by mean old Kaine!

 

[Kaybug]

Well, Kyron did not deserve to pay for the faults of his father, thats just a fact, and even if every answer to your question is yes, it still does not justify Terri's actions.

Ofcourse, Kyron did not deserve to pay for the faults of his father. I agree completely and stated that killing Kryon was not the answer. I simply have serious problems with Kaine's behavior which affected everyone.

 

[Billylee]

Hi Germaine, Alcohol smells, is noticeable to those near. And anyone who is repeatedly passing out has reached a certain stage in their drinking. He had to know she was a drinker but maybe didn't realize how seriously her mind had been affected.

We all make mistakes in life. I do feel for both Kaine and Desiree in having lost Kyron. But I also think they both let him down. Desiree for not exploring why Kyron begged to stay with her and not be sent back up to Portland. And Kaine. He simply gave this woman free reign in caring for the kids even though he has now completely downgraded her as a person and mother. He had to know all along what was inside her brain just listening to her before she'd pass out !

I don't think Kyron had a chance. IMO

And I think a judge will be looking into this big time, as Kaine is saying in his court documents, that in fact it was not Terri who was the primary care giver of the children, but him. :

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html

Terri Horman's lawyer, Peter Bunch, has argued that Terri Horman is K's primary caregiver, and that K needs to see her mother, even in supervised visits.

Kaine Horman challenges Bunch's assessment.

He argues that he is Kiara's primary caregiver. He says he worked at home 3 to 5 days a week during their marriage, and would be home and present with both children most afternoons and evenings, unless traveling for business.

 

[stmarysmead]

Ofcourse, Kyron did not deserve to pay for the faults of his father. I agree completely and stated that killing Kryon was not the answer. I simply have serious problems with Kaine's behavior which affected everyone.

Kaine is not to blame for Terri's actions. No matter how it "affected" Terri.

Nothing anyone could do to me... could make me hurt a helpless child. So I cannot move any blame off Terri onto Kaine. If you don't have that kind of viciousness in you...no one can create it in you.

That quality is solely Terri's.

Kaine is a victim.

Kyron PAID for "the faults of his stepmother"..an innate viciousness that made her think she had the right to terminate the life of anyone who crossed her....husband, child...

No sins of his Father" had any part in the killing drive that this woman possesses. Terri will not be able toclaimthe "sins of Kaine" drove her to hurt this little boy who loved her!

 

[sarah7855]

I read it once and caught the point that the only e-mail the reporter had access to was one that included complaints about Terri's relationship with Kaine. The "extreme hatred" was just Desiree's characterization of what she claims to have been shown by the police. It may not be considered irresponsible here to state such things as established fact but it would have been irresponsible for a reporter to do so without having the ability to verify the existence and contents of those e-mails.

I see your point. I'm going to take it at face value and trust that Desiree's characterization is an accurate one and that the emails that LE showed her last Friday actually contained the things she's talking about. Anyhow, yes, you are right, this article is written about the email that KATU obtained in which Terri complained about Kaine and their relationship. In that same article (link), a few of the paragraphs are in the section quoted below where Desiree is talking about not only her reaction to those emails that investigators showed her last Friday, but also describes them:

Kyron’s biological mother, Desiree Young, said investigators shared e-mails with her that Terri sent friends. She said in them Terri talked about hurting Kyron. Desiree said she now believes Terri is capable of doing so.

“Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,” she told KATU News Monday evening by phone. “I don’t understand how you can feel that way about a 7 year old.”

Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron.

“I no longer had that little part of me that hoped she hadn’t done anything to Kyron,” Desiree said after she read the e-mails. “I realized that she is capable of hurting him. That was the hardest part about it.”

"Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him"...oh my goodness She talked about hurting him. These emails as a whole are a huge deal, IMO. I agree that the "article email" probably only talked about the relationship, but apparently others shown to Desiree talked about way worse than marriage issues. Hurting a little boy? I just don't get it. Extreme hatred? What has been done to Kyron?

 

[Billylee]

I'm still waiting for the thud, when MCSO comes forward and says

"The information provided in Kaine Horman and Desiree Young's November 16 Press Conference, did not come from us. "

just like they did with the MFHP, LOL


I have no idea why they would share this information with K & D, and then K & D share it with the public, unless they're on some sort of fishing expedition. Looking for more of the same maybe? Still waiting for that one piece of the puzzle they think someone out there is holding? Who knows? But I'd like to see the emails in their entirety now that they've gone so far as to make their alleged content and intention public.

 

[grandmaj]

From the forum Owner........

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119871"]Websleuths.com is proud to present The Websleuths Wall of Shame. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

"I see a woman who has made mistakes and is paying the price. As a human being with compassion, I know not to pile it on right now."

The above is written by the Forum owner Tricia. It is about the Zahara case.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/11/17/kyron-horman-case-the-two-faces-of-terri/

Which is the truth?



From the email:

“I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn’t – spent all of my 30k to do so. …

From her Facebook:

Dec 22, 2009: Happily married in Portland, I’m a teacher but home with the kids at the moment. [Please note this around the same time she allegedly was plotting to have Kaine offed! Happily, that is.]


From the email:

Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it’s my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.

From her Facebook:

April 10, 2010: Eat…gym…eat…clean house…mow lawn….eat….

April 14, 2010: Kaine and Kyron are working on a bridge for a class project.

Terri likes when life gives you lemons, add vodka and throw a party.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html

Quote from Kaine Horman

"We're dealing with someone who is a master of deception, misdirection, and she's bringing it forward in spades," Kaine said of Terri during a press conference at the boy's 'Wall of Hope.'

Kaine said that, since the investigation began, he's heard directly from friends and family about conversations they had with Terri.

He said he realized too late, after he and Terri were no longer together, that she was crafting an image of her relationship with him and children in their household that was untrue."

As a victim Kaine on WS deserves the same as what Tricia spoke above in her piece about Zahra's Mom.

"I see a man who has made mistakes and is paying the price. As a human being with compassion, I know not to pile it on right now."

 

[stmarysmead]

Thank you, Grandmaj! So much!

 

[Billylee]

This is from Kaine's court document:

"6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended."

Seems to me he was well aware that she was drinking heavily. So again, I ask how he can supposedly just now be learning about Terri's supposed alcoholism. I totally understand his not wanting to tell Desiree about Terri's behavior, but I also completely support Desiree being pissed off about Kaine not telling her AND his refusal to let her have custody of Kyron. I want to know why he was opposed to his ex-wife taking Kyron when he was aware that his current wife had a drinking problem & wasn't taking good care of baby K (according to him).

I agree with you. His court documents clearly state the alcohol problems began right after Kiara was born and he refers to them as historical.


Kaine Horman cited Terri Horman's "historical problems with the abuse of alcohol," which he argues impaired her functioning since K's birth.

He said Terri Horman's conviction in 2005 for driving while under the influence of alcohol was not an isolated incident. He said Terri Horman's depression and alcoholism impaired how she cared for their daughter.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html

 

[desquire]

Having been in the situation before of being intimidated by a spouse/exspouse, you would be surprised at the things you won't persue because of it. Fortunately for me, after a court battle, I did have sole custody of my children. One of my daughter's told me years ago that their Father never really wanted them, he wanted them because he knew I did. There are many layers in situations like these.

I agree, Terri probadly was very jealous and hated Kryon. I really try to look at all situations objectively. Naturally, killing Kryon was not the answer if she did it. Kaine is overbearing and as I see him, IMO, he is a manipulative person too. Did he do things to make Terri extremely jealous? Did he know Kryon wanted to live with his Mother and simply said no because he knew she wanted him? Why did he make it so difficult for Desiree? Did he imtimidate Terri to make HIS life what he wanted it? Many questions.

You make some good observations and raise some important questions. Life, people, motivations and relationships are complicated multi-layered things and I think that if we are ever to come to a meaningful understanding of the tragedy that took Kyron and learn something from it, that can only occur through an objective evaluation of the people and circumstances, not by painting everyone and their actions with a cartoonishly simple brush. Thanks for sharing your personal insight and opinions. I hope you will not be discouraged from expressing your valued thoughts.

 

[eyes4crime]

Well, when Terri took her first husband's son from him and she said NO to his custody...was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating."

And when Terri's second husband asked her to please not double his financial support for J because he could not afford it...and she responded by having the police contact him..and saying NO...was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating?"

When she took the SECOND inlaws money and got HER education while their own son was unable to get HIS education, was Terri being "overbearing, demanding or intimidating?"

Please no double standard...

Seems that Terri is painted as a woman with immense power, telling the courts, parents, inlaws, and husbands what to do. She is painted as being immensely powerful and those she interacted with are painted as being immensely impotent, powerless, brainless, stupid, without backbone. I contend that having a life full of spineless people is against statistical odds and at odds with human behavior as we know it. moo mho

Are you sure Terri said NO to custody, or did the court say NO to custody - did the courts say NO to custody due to crystal meth and/or a failing marriage?

Are you sure Terri took the SECOND INLAWS money? Terri was in a debilitating car accident from which she won money from a lawsuit. Amount unknown. Are you sure she didn't use that money for school? And once again, did Terri stronghold, threaten, or manipulate poor spineless in-laws to get the money as you say she did?

Just wondering because it seems that Terri has been painted ONE color by many, to the point of ridiculous monotony - if Terri was really that simple she would be arrested, tried, and convicted, waiting for the injection that ends her life.

In MOO no person is ever as simple or powerful as Terri has been described to be. I don't think Terri is as simple as black vs white. moo mho

 

[Zephyr]

Certainly all victims deserve compassion, but after some things we've learned recently I'm feeling much more compassion for Desiree.

According to Desiree,

- Desiree wanted Kyron to live with her and began trying to make that happen about a year before Kyron went missing, and
- Kyron wanted to live with Desiree, and
- TH wanted Kyron to live with Desiree, but
- to Kaine, that wasn't an option.

Why oh why was it not an option for Kyron to live with his mom, who wanted him, rather than TH, who did not??

Oh yes, it was an option. Then. But not now.

Just my opinion. Also just my opinion that TH is responsible for whatever happened to Kyron.

 

[Chablis]

Certainly all victims deserve compassion, but after some things we've learned recently I'm feeling much more compassion for Desiree.

According to Desiree,

- Desiree wanted Kyron to live with her and began trying to make that happen about a year before Kyron went missing, and
- Kyron wanted to live with Desiree, and
- TH wanted Kyron to live with Desiree, but
- to Kaine, that wasn't an option.

Why oh why was it not an option for Kyron to live with his mom, who wanted him, rather than TH, who did not??

Oh yes, it was an option. Then. But not now.

Just my opinion. Also just my opinion that TH is responsible for whatever happened to Kyron.

I agree, and I think that Kaine really wanted to have his son around, despite what everyone else wanted, because he may have been selfish, but I think one thing is very for sure is that he LOVED his son, and I think that really, really, upset Terri and she took it away.

This is a tragic story all the way around.

 

[eyes4crime]

Certainly all victims deserve compassion, but after some things we've learned recently I'm feeling much more compassion for Desiree.

According to Desiree,

- Desiree wanted Kyron to live with her and began trying to make that happen about a year before Kyron went missing, and
- Kyron wanted to live with Desiree, and
- TH wanted Kyron to live with Desiree, but
- to Kaine, that wasn't an option.

Why oh why was it not an option for Kyron to live with his mom, who wanted him, rather than TH, who did not??

Oh yes, it was an option. Then. But not now.

Just my opinion. Also just my opinion that TH is responsible for whatever happened to Kyron.

Bolded and underlined by me.

Good post! Don't you wonder why it wasn't an option? Maybe he would have had to pay child support or maybe he thought he was the 'better' parent/person to raise Kyron. Why that wasn't an option is very intriguing. Wish we knew the answer. moo mhoo