TH's polygraphs

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I see the polygraph as being similar to statement analysis, which is just a tool for identifying potential deception, areas that detectives may want to probe or follow up. Both are tools that could help a skilled investigator but they will only be useful if the administrator and interpreters are skilled and don't see the results as the LE equivalent of the Law as delivered to Moses.
 
Donjeta said:
Yeah... IMO it is quite easy to understand why an innocent person and a liar might be equally more nervous in response to questions like "Did you kill X?" than compared to questions like "Do you have brown eyes?" Both the liars and innocent people know which questions are the ones that could get them in trouble.

I think some version of guilty knowledge tests might work best. In theory, at least. If you investigate a stabbing with a dagger the testee is presented with alternatives such as "Was X killed with a pistol? A rifle? A kitchen knife? A dagger? A blunt object?" and the guilty person would supposedly have more information than an innocent one so if the person is more nervous at the mention of the dagger you may think it indicates awareness of the murder weapon. An innocent person with no knowledge wouldn't know to be more nervous about the knife than about the pistol (except maybe if he owns a dagger collection but no pistols).

depends on the investigation and what has been published, rumored or leaked and it might require secrecy that they don't have. The above example wouldn't work if everybody knows the victim was stabbed or if they thought he might have been stabbed because it's the word on the street.
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I think another issue is that these tests are, from what I have seen, constructed of "yes/no" questions. But we don't live in a yes/no world. If someone asks a question, for example, about "being responsible" for the disappearance, a parent who had lost sight of a child in a shopping mall (as in the Adam Walsh case) might well feel guilty and responsible. And so could truthfully answer yes or may indicate deception if saying "no." I can see a number of ways that people who are bright, reflective and innocent could "fail" a polygraph. And then there are the cases in which LE lies and tells people they failed.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
if the administrator and interpreters are skilled
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Respectfully snipped

In addition to all of the above stated issues with polygraphs, the snipped portion is just another issue. Even if skilled, they can be misinterpreted just as easily as your heart can race b/c you just had a giant cup of coffee. It is a very common problem.

They should just get rid of them all together. IMO.
 
I don't think that LE or anyone should put out results of this tool... It should be kept secretive... How many cases have we heard about poly's being involved... They are not admissable in court at all...So what purpose do they serve...?? An investigative tool.. thats it... They NEED to keep the LDT out of the public/media eye... JMO..
 
In all honesty, I think they do more damage than good...
-Once the media hears of it...and its not good...people think guilty.
-The media runs the results into the ground... (unless someone passed)
-Potential Juriors have heard it on the news..
-Leaks get out...

The only way I would consider a lie detector test is if the LE doesn't answer if someone failed or passed.... and use it as a "tool" that it is meant for.... :)
 
At one point, I believe it wasn't the machine so much as it was the person administering the polygraph that determined the way it went, but these days I don't know.

I will go on record as saying I hate them. I am glad they can't be used in court because there a just too many variables that could hink up the process and the results.

Do I believe they are a good way to determine if LE is focusing on the right person, well I don't know that either.

I am the type of person that was raised on guilt, an only child that would get blamed for anything and everything. I wasn't allowed to get a driver's license at 16 because I couldn't drive my mothers car because I would wreck it.....
you get where I'm going.

At 22 I took a polygraph for a company I worked for. The guy (who was supposed to be one of the leading polygraph experts in the country) talked to me for 7 hours. I had been with the company for 5 years, moved 2 times for them and this guy wanted all the dirt on all the big wigs. For some reason he was sure I had scoop on regional managers thru the midwest and wouldn't let up. It was awful. and a torture for someone raised on guilt.

They might be a tool, but they just make me nervous.

If TH failed a couple, I would imagine it was because the whole MFHP was in her head and it was going to blow things wide open.

OME
 
froginTtown said:
I don't think that LE or anyone should put out results of this tool... It should be kept secretive... How many cases have we heard about poly's being involved... They are not admissable in court at all...So what purpose do they serve...?? An investigative tool.. thats it... They NEED to keep the LDT out of the public/media eye... JMO..
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LE didn't release the results. KH and DY did that in one of their PCs.

I do think a polygraph could be helpful, but it has to be quite specific. Even then, it isn't 100%, but few things in life are. I would love to know what questions produced her "deceptive" replies. I would almost bet the house that they had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance. However, she was told she failed it and she shared that with the rest of the family. The whole scenerio sounds as though she was totally bewildered as to "why" she failed.
 
froginTtown said:
Honestly BeanE,
I knew she took a third, but your right, we never heard of a result... I'm sure the questions became more directive....If I see anything, I'll post.. :)
:)
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Didn't we read that she walked out without taking the third? I'm going to surmise that she tried to lay down rules for them that they not question her on a specific area, probably the same one that produced her evasive answers the first 2 times.

The mere fact that she was going to take it a third time is significant.
 
PaulaF513 said:
LE didn't release the results. KH and DY did that in one of their PCs.

I do think a polygraph could be helpful, but it has to be quite specific. Even then, it isn't 100%, but few things in life are. I would love to know what questions produced her "deceptive" replies. I would almost bet the house that they had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance. However, she was told she failed it and she shared that with the rest of the family. The whole scenerio sounds as though she was totally bewildered as to "why" she failed.
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I was generalizing on the subject... not speaking to this case directly.. :)
 
PaulaF513 said:
Didn't we read that she walked out without taking the third? I'm going to surmise that she tried to lay down rules for them that they not question her on a specific area, probably the same one that produced her evasive answers the first 2 times.

The mere fact that she was going to take it a third time is significant.
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nope... she walked out on the second one.... I would like to know what happened on the third one... ;)
 
Also, please don't forget that LE can lie about the results...say that someone has failed, showed deception, and whatever they would like to say, simply to apply pressure on someone.

I have had several experiences with polygraphs, and that has demonstrated to me the reason they are not used in a courtroom.

I do not think that they are any kind of evidence, especially in this particular case.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
froginTtown said:
nope... she walked out on the second one.... I would like to know what happened on the third one... ;)
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Q: Can you describe how Terri Horman handled the polygraph requests? I believe you have said to others that Terri walked out of a second polygraph, and then waited about 10 days before taking a third? Can you clarify this for us?

A: She fully cooperated and took the first polygraph then subsequently vented her failed results to all family, friends, and law enforcement at the house. A few days later she cooperated and went to take a second polygraph test but got up and walked out before the machine portion of the test could be administered... again by her own statement to family, friends, and law enforcement at the house ...She continually pushed back and refused to repeat the second test for several days (approx. 8-10) before going to take the test and then once again coming back to the house and venting to all listeners.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kaine_horman_describes_how_ter.html
 
PaulaF513 said:
LE didn't release the results. KH and DY did that in one of their PCs.

I do think a polygraph could be helpful, but it has to be quite specific. Even then, it isn't 100%, but few things in life are. I would love to know what questions produced her "deceptive" replies. I would almost bet the house that they had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance. However, she was told she failed it and she shared that with the rest of the family. The whole scenerio sounds as though she was totally bewildered as to "why" she failed.
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IMHO.. I doubt she was bewildered...I'm thinking more in line with her acting totally indignant as to WHY she failed....JMO
 
The point of the poly is to eliminate the immediate family so the can move on with the investigation when she waits 8 to 10 days to retake it seems more telling than the test itself ..a concerned parent wants to hurry and clear themselves so their child can be helped !
 
cindysue said:
The point of the poly is to eliminate the immediate family so the can move on with the investigation when she waits 8 to 10 days to retake it seems more telling than the test itself ..a concerned parent wants to hurry and clear themselves so their child can be helped !
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We've only heard Kaine's and Desiree's version of what happened. We really have no idea why Terri waited either "several days" or "eight" or "ten", or even if there was another reason she wasn't able to retake the test immediately.
 
I worked for a company that requested you take polygraphs 3 times a year. (it was later banned). Since I worked for them for 13 years I can only imagine the tests were accurate but what I found disturbing is the man issuing the test said it was only as good as the polygrapher. That always freaked me out. They put you in the equipment to test your breathing patterns, etc. It's an odd process to say the least. After a few years the man issuing the test became rather open about a lot of facts concerning the process.

We had a girl at our branch who was a compulsive liar and she always passed with flying colors. She was finally fired when caught red handed stealing. So there you have it.

Did Terri fail? According to those around her, yes. What it means depends on the questions. As usual we are not privy to the answer. It is an investigative tool, hmmm. It becomes more than that when the masses hear the results. Since it is not accurate enough to be used in a court of law, what is the point? Giving LE a direction to go in? Another hmm...
 
Ronald Cumming said that he and Misty passed their LDT with FLYING colors... Yeah, The LE will tell you whatever,,,, but they are sleeping with one eye open... ;)
p.s. I've heard that LE never tells anyone if they pass or fail.... notes. from Haleighs case...:)
 
To the question in the title... not in court, no. But to LE, yes.
They are investigative tools, and can tell LE a lot about the people they administer them to. They do observe the reactions of people when asked to take one. It helps them rule out those closest to the victim. They do take into account that familes willl be upset, nervous and scared. But IF a person refuses one... that sends up a big red flag.
And it should be noted that passing a polygraph does not automaticaly mean a person is telling the truth and not involved in whatever crime is being investigated, either.
However... a good and well-trained investigator doesn't need a polygraph. They are trained in reading body language and expressions, and can usually tell whether a person is lying or telling the truth, without the polygraph.
Also... in some instances, a polygraph CAN be used in court, if both the defense and the prosecution agrees.
 
Ya know, a LDT is not an issue in this case for me... This case was wrong from day 1.. on day 6, the FAB Four got together to plead for Kyron.. Then there where three. and the outcast has been torn up.. I look at the threads, I can't take the poll of why I think TH is innocent..nor can I take of why she is quilty.. I do know this.. I am yet to here one word out of Terri's mouth.. This case has been one sided since day 7.... I think there is alot more to learn about the "team players".. MOO..JMO
 
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