Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

[Snoofo]

Forgive me I didnt realize the arrest was only one day after 'escape'. It is also the day the trailer arrived at MB's.

Thanks Alethea Dice.


Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[Arnie M]

I find the timing interesting. She is alleged to have tried to help him "escape" by doing something on May 9th - the same day the cell phone was found and the same day LE released the information about the tattoo. And the next day, DM was arrested.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4461113-girlfriend-of-accused-bosma-killer-allegedly-helped-him-escape/

JMO

My guess is that on or about May 9th she realized , or figured out , that DM was involved in the missing person case , and did not go to the police with the info.

Wouldn't that make her an accessory to protecting a murderer after the fact ?

Maybe her involvement was as minimal as that.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Forgive me I didnt realize the arrest was only one day after 'escape'. It is also the day the trailer arrived at MB's.

Thanks Alethea Dice.


Sent using Tapatalk 2

Yes, or the day after, depending on which neighbour you believe - the one watching the hockey game or the one who came home late Thursday from an engagement in Toronto.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

My guess is that on or about May 9th she realized , or figured out , that DM was involved in the missing person case , and did not go to the police with the info.

Wouldn't that make her an accessory to protecting a murderer after the fact ?

Maybe her involvement was as minimal as that.

Just some thoughts.

No, not going to the police with information is not being an accessory after the fact. You have no legal obligation to give a witness statement or report a crime (only a moral obligation). Any statements to LE must be given voluntarily.

The accused must know that that the person they are assisting was a principle or party to an offence, and the assistance must be for the purpose of enabling the person to escape. It is not sufficient that the accused merely do an act that enables the escape

A person is not guilty as an accessory for refusing to provide information to authorities.,Ref> R v Semenick (1955) 11 CCC 337 (BCCA)</ref>

The following actions have been found to amount to the offence of accessory:

1. assisting the principle by giving him information or aid.[7]
2. hiding the principal offender[8]
3. concealing evidence [9]
4. giving false information to authorities including participating in a fake alibi

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Accessory_After_the_Fact

JMO

 

[Snoofo]

Yes, or the day after, depending on which neighbour you believe - the one watching the hockey game or the one who came home late Thursday from an engagement in Toronto.

JMO

I always believed the Wednesday guy with the son. That was a specific memory and we know the game took place that night. It was the earliest sighting. Thursday person may have just not paid attention the day before.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[Alethea Dice]

I always believed the Wednesday guy with the son. That was a specific memory and we know the game took place that night. It was the earliest sighting. Thursday person may have just not paid attention the day before.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

I do too. He not only had the memory of the game to connect the day and a general idea of the time, but he actually saw the truck arrive. It's a much clearer memory than when you just noticed that it was there when you came home at night.

JMO

 

[hopingforjustice]

No, not going to the police with information is not being an accessory after the fact. You have no legal obligation to give a witness statement or report a crime (only a moral obligation). Any statements to LE must be given voluntarily.





http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Accessory_After_the_Fact

JMO

So is this saying that if I am asked specific questions by LE with regard to a crime that I have knowledge of, that I am not obligated by any kind of "legal oath" to tell what I know? That I can just walk away and say "don't know" ?

I think that there has to be a difference between offering up a statement voluntarily and being questioned with specifics and not complying . I believe it was reported on this board that CN refused to talk to LE when questioned. I will look for the link.

That is why I place my doubt in CN.

JMO

 

[hopingforjustice]

No, not going to the police with information is not being an accessory after the fact. You have no legal obligation to give a witness statement or report a crime (only a moral obligation). Any statements to LE must be given voluntarily.





http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Accessory_After_the_Fact

JMO

So is this saying that if I am asked specific questions by LE with regard to a crime that I have knowledge of, that I am not obligated by any kind of "legal oath" to tell what I know? That I can just walk away and say "don't know" ?

I think that there has to be a difference between offering up a statement voluntarily and being questioned with specifics and not complying . I believe it was reported on this board that CN refused to talk to LE when questioned. I will look for the link.

That is why I place my doubt in CN.

 

[Alethea Dice]

So is this saying that if I am asked specific questions by LE with regard to a crime that I have knowledge of, that I am not obligated by any kind of "legal oath" to tell what I know? That I can just walk away and say "don't know" ?

I think that there has to be a difference between offering up a statement voluntarily and being questioned with specifics and not complying . I believe it was reported on this board that CN refused to talk to LE when questioned. I will look for the link.

That is why I place my doubt in CN.

JMO

Yes, that's correct. Unless they are going to arrest you or have grounds to detain you, you are free to walk away. And if they are going to arrest you, all the more reason to say nothing until you speak to a lawyer.

Initial Contact Questioning by Police

If the police have stopped you and told you why, they will ask you some basic questions to determine if a crime has been committed and if you are a suspect. You do not have to answer them.
If you are just a bystander, the police may just be looking for witnesses. It is up to you to respond or not.

http://www.canlaw.com/criminal/arrest.htm#.U5FPkPldX-s

http://www.cleo.on.ca/en/publications/polpower/what-if-police-question-me

 

[Juballee]

So is this saying that if I am asked specific questions by LE with regard to a crime that I have knowledge of, that I am not obligated by any kind of "legal oath" to tell what I know? That I can just walk away and say "don't know" ?

I think that there has to be a difference between offering up a statement voluntarily and being questioned with specifics and not complying . I believe it was reported on this board that CN refused to talk to LE when questioned. I will look for the link.

That is why I place my doubt in CN.

Legal oaths are for court, when you are questioned by police there is no oath that they can make you take. And I believe that as Canadians we have a right not to incriminate ourselves when questioned by police, whether we are innocent or guilty.

It is not unusual for innocent people to say things that can be misinterpreted, or to say things that they did not mean to say, especially when you add in the nervousness and anxiety most people feel when confronted by police. That is why you have a right to remain silent, and although they must remind you of this if you are arrested, it is still your right even when you are not arrested, but they are just not compelled to remind you of it in other circumstances.


In my opinion, if CN refusing to talk to police when questioned makes her guilty, then all of his friends must also be guilty, since they all refused to speak to LE from what I recall. I bet most of them spoke to their lawyers too, it would have been the prudent thing to do.

 

[swedie]

Whatever CN did, it seems pretty apparent from this article she knew TB was deceased and DM was involved. LE could have attended CN's house looking for DM on the 9th, she lied saying he wasn't there. But maybe his Yukon was parked in the driveway and they felt certain he was there, felt certain they had their man, so they cased out CN's house and the next day when DM left, LE followed his movements, eventually rear ending his Yukon and arresting him. IIRC it was stated LE had followed him for four hours prior to his arrest and even paid him a visit at the hangar as he claimed in his jailhouse interview, he was retrieving financial information for his accountant.

MHO their needs to be a law created holding people responsible for not coming forth divulging information when they know a serious crime has been committed and not reporting it. Especially in a case as serious as murder. Could this be the case in CN's situation and because we don't have a withholding information charge, they found another charge and are getting her on the escape charge? JMO.

Three days after Tim Bosma disappeared, Christina Noudga was allegedly trying to help her boyfriend escape being arrested for murder.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...sed-bosma-killer-allegedly-helped-him-escape/

 

[Snoofo]

Swedie, IMO if the scenario you are suggesting was true it wouldn't take them a year to lay those charges against her. If she lied and then his being apprehended proved she was lying, they would have known immediately and charged her last year.

Also don't forget another key word in the article: allegedly.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[Snoofo]

And if they charged accessory because they don't have a withholding charge, the Crown would know it would lose in Court as it would not have proof of accessory , and therefore waste a lot of time and taxpayer money. So I cant imagine they would or could.

Not withholding information could backfire on an innocent person in a serious way.


Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[Arnie M]

Quotes from the article ... http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...sed-bosma-killer-allegedly-helped-him-escape/


.... Court heard she allegedly knew her boyfriend Dellen Millard had killed Bosma and she was helping Millard escape arrest.

.... Police said Thursday a long investigation led to the charge against Noudga in the Bosma case.

.

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

I'm not so sure. Not if he has the connections and is trusted to pay up. Some of the runners on the street get commission for what they sell.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/heroin-arrests-sales-dealers-west-side-economics/Content?oid=11722393

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/interviews/chambers.html

http://caj.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/mediamag/awards2006/Taking%20the%20Hit%20(two).pdf

MuhGruff seemed to suggest that it was a friend of a friend that was selling the coke and MS was getting it on credit or at least without a lot of cash or something like that. That's what I inferred anyway and that's what I was reacting to. If you are that far removed from the action, you are paying cash, there is no credit. You have to have the money. (I misspoke.)

However if MS was a regular cash customer, for instance, buying a bag of pot every day, I could see someone fronting him coke. It's just MS would have to have customers to sell it to, because you don't want to front coke to someone who knows no one that wants it, and is just going to put it up their nose, and who has no money.

My point is, at the age of 18, I don't think MS's involvement in the drug trade was light.

His arrests suggest that he is selling in public, not between friends.

The drugs he was caught selling suggest that he has strong relationships with people who trade in drugs, excellent access, and that he is making good money at this or has excellent credit.

Not everybody wants coke and mushrooms. More than 90% of the kids who drink and smoke pot won't touch coke and mushrooms.

MS was part of a very select social circle.

If he was caught selling weed, with the prevalence of weed these days, that would be unremarkable. Half of people want pot legalized. Coke is something entirely different.

From today's article about LB:

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

[LB, her boyfriend and her girlfriend] partied hard that night, Austerweil said, snorting coke, doing ecstasy, smoking weed and drinking.

So this was LB's lifestyle when she hooked up with DM. Sounds like a good customer for MS?

A month later, Babcock went to police. In March 2012, Austerweil was charged with assaulting her, theft under $5,000 (what he owed for the vet bill) and sexually assaulting her friend.

Ok maybe not, BAD customer: someone that flips out and rats to police.

Is this how LB ended up dead? She was not sophisticated enough to know that you don't rat out drug dealers? Did she at some point threaten to go to police with information on DM and MS?

LB was a loose cannon. She lived the lifestyle, but turned around and attacked those that were in it with her.

I think this is why MS and DM felt they needed to get rid of her.

It is very, very telling that LB had a history of going to police.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I find the timing interesting. She is alleged to have tried to help him "escape" by doing something on May 9th - the same day the cell phone was found and the same day LE released the information about the tattoo. And the next day, DM was arrested.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4461113-girlfriend-of-accused-bosma-killer-allegedly-helped-him-escape/

JMO

The cell phone was found on the 9th. Then on the 10th:

LE visited DM in the morning
They announced the tattoo description midday
They arrested him that afternoon
They announced the arrest on the 11th.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Some thoughts on the timing of CN's arrest.

Consider DM was arrested. On May 10, LE visited him at the hangar that morning.

Midday, they held a press conference and said this:

Male white, 6'1" to 6'2", 170 to 180 pounds, in his mid 20's, light to medium short brown hair, unshaven, wearing blue jeans, long sleeved orange shirt and running shoes. The gentleman in Toronto described it as a short sleeved shirt when he saw him. The gentleman from Toronto described, and added to this description, on one of his wrists, he wasn't if it was a left or right, where a person wears a watch, was the word "ambition". There was a box tattooed, framing the outside of the word "ambition" and it would have been in the same direction as one wears a watch.

Police have researched this tattoo. This tattoo itself is not uncommon. Many people have the word "ambition" tattooed on their body. However, the location and the frame around it is unique. This male has not been identified as yet.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10469411&postcount=9"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - PRESS CONFERENCE VIDEOS AND TRANSCRIPTS **No Discussion**[/ame]

That same afternoon they arrested DM. They didn't announce the arrest until the next day.

Obviously LE was lying when they said they didn't know who they were looking for, midday on the 10th. They already had enough information to arrest DM at that time, and in fact the arrest went down, if not at the same time, within hours.




Now check out this article, published 7:00 AM, May 22, 2013 in the Spec (Susan Clairmont, who has great connections with LE in this case). Keep in mind that LE was busting down the door at MS's mother's house at 9:00 AM, May 22, 2013

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/clairmont-no-id-yet-of-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-murder

Investigators have not identified the two suspects they are looking for in connection to Tim Bosma's murder, says the detective in charge of the case.

Yet Detective Sergeant Matt Kavanagh of the Hamilton police homicide unit told The Spectator he does not believe the public is in any danger.

"You'll just have to trust me on this," he said when asked to explain.

Police have previously said there were at least three people involved in the abduction and murder of Bosma: the two men who went with him to test drive his Dodge Ram pickup truck that was for sale and another person following behind them in another vehicle. Police had left open the possibility there could be more than one individual in that following vehicle, which has only been described as an "SUV-type vehicle."

Now, however, Kavanagh says he believes there was only one person inside the second vehicle.

The description of the second man who went for the test drive is vaguer: white, 5-foot-9 to 5-foot-10, small to medium build, early to mid 20s, dark hair, wearing a red sweatshirt with the hood up.

Both of those men were seen by Bosma's widow and by a Dodge Ram owner in Etobicoke who took them for an uneventful test drive a day earlier.

Police are not planning on releasing a composite drawing of the man who was in the truck, says Kavanagh, and they have not released a description of the person in the second vehicle.

"We don't have them identified," Kavanagh says of the two suspects still being sought. "But we're confident they have to be someone Dellen Millard knows."

It was on June 6, 2013 that LE announced that (1) there may not have been a third suspect and (2) DM's girlfriend, name under publication ban at the time, was not the third suspect.

Now are you going to take that at face value?

The truth is that CN is not a threat to the public, but she clearly has been dragged into all of this.

LE decided not to pursue her arrest, just to watch her and see what she would do. Tap her phone and see if any of the messages DM tried to send to her from jail got through.

Before she was arrested, Dellen Millard consistently tried to send Noudga messages through the people who visited him in jail despite the fact that she was on a list of people with whom he was ordered to have no contact.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/christina-noudga

Leaving CN on the loose gives LE an opportunity to intercept messages between the two.

I wonder what they would talk about?

 

[Snoofo]

One thing that stood out to me from the new article is that LE, new or old, retired or not, cannot talk to family or MSM about the LB case now that it's before the Courts. So maybe that is why it's before the Courts. They can buy some time, avoid answering to their horrible work. They screwed up so bad. They would have been better off staying silent than letting Carbone embarrass them further in public with his LACK of knowledge about the case.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[Alethea Dice]

MuhGruff seemed to suggest that it was a friend of a friend that was selling the coke and MS was getting it on credit or at least without a lot of cash or something like that. That's what I inferred anyway and that's what I was reacting to. If you are that far removed from the action, you are paying cash, there is no credit. You have to have the money. (I misspoke.)

However if MS was a regular cash customer, for instance, buying a bag of pot every day, I could see someone fronting him coke. It's just MS would have to have customers to sell it to, because you don't want to front coke to someone who knows no one that wants it, and is just going to put it up their nose, and who has no money.

My point is, at the age of 18, I don't think MS's involvement in the drug trade was light.

His arrests suggest that he is selling in public, not between friends.

The drugs he was caught selling suggest that he has strong relationships with people who trade in drugs, excellent access, and that he is making good money at this or has excellent credit.

Not everybody wants coke and mushrooms. More than 90% of the kids who drink and smoke pot won't touch coke and mushrooms.

MS was part of a very select social circle.

If he was caught selling weed, with the prevalence of weed these days, that would be unremarkable. Half of people want pot legalized. Coke is something entirely different.

From today's article about LB:

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html



So this was LB's lifestyle when she hooked up with DM. Sounds like a good customer for MS?



Ok maybe not, BAD customer: someone that flips out and rats to police.

Is this how LB ended up dead? She was not sophisticated enough to know that you don't rat out drug dealers? Did she at some point threaten to go to police with information on DM and MS?

LB was a loose cannon. She lived the lifestyle, but turned around and attacked those that were in it with her.

I think this is why MS and DM felt they needed to get rid of her.

It is very, very telling that LB had a history of going to police.

Sorry, I agree. I wasn't thinking about the reference to him just selling for a friend who sells. I think his connection was much closer than that as well.

"Ok maybe not, BAD customer: someone that flips out and rats to police."

I'm not sure what to think about that police report made in March. Does she "rat" to police or does she look for revenge when she's angry?

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

The cell phone was found on the 9th. Then on the 10th:

LE visited DM in the morning
They announced the tattoo description midday
They arrested him that afternoon
They announced the arrest on the 11th.

I think you're right. I had the tattoo info as the 9th on my timeline, but most of what I find now indicates that the press conference was on the 10th. I wonder why or how this article got back-dated to the 9th?

http://www.hamiltonnews.com/community/young-mom-pleads-for-safe-return-of-much-loved-husband-and-father/